Why are people bad at writing? Or to be more objective, why are so many people so much worse at writing than speaking?

Why are people bad at writing? Or to be more objective, why are so many people so much worse at writing than speaking?

Being bad at both would make sense. Talents take time to develop. But how can people have one, and not the other? I can talk to legitimately intelligent people and have a good live conversation with them, only for their writing to look retarded.

The first possibility I considered was that I just hated reading, or that I had a bias against it. But going through the material in audio form didn't change anything. The second thing I considered was that there's likely a unique speech-to-text talent required when writing. Most people say words in their head instead of conveying tone to themselves via punctuation marks, right? I think that makes sense, but it also seems insufficient. Punctuation-shuffling is seldom enough to redeem bad work. You can look at any popular creative writing site and see thousands of stories and poems that are just garbage (though I wouldn't read more than a couple), and I don't understand why or how this is the case. I don't feel like I've ever talked to anyone this stupid, yet there they are. It's like a robot snuck past me in a real-life turing test, only to get caught online. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

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Low verbal intelligence. People are not equal. This perplexes you?

I'm fucking terrible at speaking. I cannot hold my own in conversation and one on one conversation terrifies me. I know this. I'm accutely aware that I'm an akward fuckwad and that makes my conversations more awkward. When somebody starts talking to me I'm immediately aware that they think I'm a fucking retard because I am.
I can talk to people via text though. I can take my time, say exactly what I want as clearly as I want and I know that I won't stumble on my words and fuck up the delivery like I do in person.

Never written anything though, fuck. I don't fucking know fuck you I'm drunk

Lower standards for speaking than writing

Right, sure. But within single individuals, those individuals are each often much worse at writing than speaking. Being bad at both would make sense, but if someone can at least speak well, you'd think they should be able to speak onto the page with about the same amount of talent. Yet this isn't the case.

I'm suprised more people aren't like you.

I can't understand how everyone isn't like this.
It's incredibly easy to be some charming, funny cunt when you don't have to speak the mouth words out of your face. I can text girls like a fucking Chad, I could probably get laid if that didn't involve having to meet that person face to face.

are suicidal thoughts suicidal if you don't want to or can't hurt yourself?

I think your question puts a larger burden on nomenclature than it does on theory of mind or thoughts. I also don't see your point.

I'm not smart enough to understand any of that

I have this problem with speaking where I automatically assume everyone has the context to what I'm talking about when they don't. Because of this, my verbal communication is horrible. I've found a workaround where I "type" what I want to say on a computer in my head before I speak so people don't assume I'm retarded or schizophrenic. The problem is that this takes multiple seconds and people don't have the patience to sit there for me to sort concepts through my brain, so I just look retarded and autistic. They usually move on to another topic and I have to do this mental thing again. Found a female that is horribly patient and she thinks I'm genius, so I'm trying to not mess that up.

I mean it sounds like you're talking more about the names of those things, and not the things. If we're on a lit board talking about so-called suicidal thoughts, the term might include softcore/curious ones that aren't actually dangerous. But if a doctor asks me if I'm having suicidal thoughts, he's probably asking for the risky ones.

>Found a female
Well, at least you see it as your own ball to drop. Best of luck my Ferengi comrade.

I dunno about any of that, I know I could never do the deed itself fuck I could never even intentionally scratch myself but I find myself thinking about it pretty much all the time so I don't know if that's dangerous or not

You out too much pressure on trying to win over people when you socialize face-to-face. That or you feel a tendency for perfection, and that any slip up in conversation immediately lowers your perceived intelligence/status. My advice is to genuinely listen in the conversation, focus on what the person is saying, not what they might be thinking of you. Chances are, they care more about what they want to say then what you see immediately doing, and only form an opinion of the interaction after it’s ended. Anyways, just go with the flow. Don’t try so hard

Consider asking a doctor then? I'm still not sure what this has to do with the OP but if you just want a frame of reference, I brought up suicide to someone in person yesterday, and I would say I do so slightly less than once a week. I consider myself someone who hears about it more than talks about it.

my eyebrows look like this - I'm 27 and doctors could never tell me why. It's only because I'm drunk and googled shit like red eyebrows that I discovered this shit.

Either way, I've spent my entire life dealing with "do you shave your eyebrows" and "where are your eyebrows" questions. I used to think that it stopped bothering me in secondary school when I learnt to deal with it but I think the truth is this shit has an impact on my every single interaction every single day because I can't get past the though that all they're thinking about is my eyebrows.

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Interesting question. I'd say relates to the relatively unidimensional, fixed, intrapersonal nature of writing, as opposed to the dynamic, multidimensional, interpersonal nature of speech.

In speech you can draw on tone, pitch, intensity and timbre of voice, quickness and variations in clarity of elocution, facial expressions, body movements and posture, hand and arm gestures, plus shared personal history with the speaker, shared environment (the place you're talking in), a common situation, heck even smells, all that to convey your point accross. You can rephrase something you've badly phrased, you can ask and answer to questions, and you can adapt all those elements on the fly depending on the reaction of your audience.

All that is very fine-tuned and yet mostly subconscious, because as social animals we've spent the better part of the last million years talking to one another and it has become ingrained in us to the point we don't notice most of what's happening in a conversation, even though all of it affects us. Add how essential communication has been to the survival of our species, and how much of our life we spent talking (sometimes several hours a day) and you see why we're so good at it.

Heck we're so good at communication we don't even need words in some cases. Friends and lovers understand each other with a glare, with a smile, sometimes less. I had two friends in hs who often played basketball together, they once told me if one of them threw the ball behind him, without even looking, he'd know the other would catch it. They had enough shared history to understand each other (to some extent) without words and at a distance. And that kind of stuff is ubiquitous in daily life.

Words are almost overkill at this point.

Now compare that to writing. You pretty much only have the words, with their natural ambiguity, their context-dependence, their evolving meaning, their relating to a world and an intent that might be unclear or unappropriately grasped by both reader and writer. You have to use them to convey something to someone you don't know, who will perhaps not be born in your lifetime, who might not share a language or a continent with you, who cannot give you feedback. Thus you have to establilsh a standard of conversation, with a unknown, at times unknownable interlocutor, accross unpredictable distances and differences, and with only one (the latest, the most disembodied, perhaps the flimsiest) of the means of conversation. That's akin to trying to complete a triathlon with two hands tied behind your back and blindfolded.

No wonder it's a skill. Even conversation is a skill. Even speaking in more 'general' conditions (in public instead of private for instance) is a skill. The more general the conditions, the less tied to a narrow situation you can immediately grasp, the more skill required to maintain a proper level of attention, engagement and understanding. In writing you face the most general condition of all.

>plus shared personal history with the speaker, shared environment
>context being more easily used and deeply understood
Good points.

I’m terrible at speaking (I grew up in a low-income environment and developed the dialect you commonly hear in blacks), but I’m a fairly good writer. Another factor that may contribute to my poor ability to articulate myself verbally is my debilitating social anxiety, which causes me to shake around strangers and act as if I’m autistic (I think I’m on the spectrum, but it hasn’t been severe enough to warrant a psychologist to diagnosis me as such), and it’s why I routinely stay home and spend my time reading rather than attempting to improve my verbal prowess.

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>ferengi
I never watched star trek, so I don't know what you mean. I just overthink when I'm alone and don't want to look too clingy, so I do that delayed response thing.

my girlfriend is the same. i love her, but she is the worst math tutor i have ever seen.

I appreciate your effortpost user

Quality post.

Spoken and written communications follow different conventions. Somebody can still be perceived as a charismatic speaker even if they have a limited vocabulary, misuse words or splice sentences. While authors can also innovate, they're constrained not only by a lack of physical context but by structure, too.

Structure can mean a lot of different things, from adherence to syntactical norms to being able to tell a story that stretches dozens of pages. There are a great many people in the world who don't have much education but come form cultures with rich story-telling traditions. Fuck--I've met loads of folk from impoverished backgrounds, who are functionally illiterate but can talk like nobody's business.

Both spoken and written communications are considered facets of verbal intelligence. Most people who are educated and can speak well can write well, too, if not excellently. But, as the other user said, they rely on different means of engagement and relationship and thus require separate (if related) forms of knowledge.

More time is spent speaking than writing. Different attributes are valued in speaking vs writing.

Sounds are more easily identified as beautiful than words and we all need someone to fix our tires and write computer code.

If you want the general public to enjoy reading, go to a country music concert and throw Dan Brown novels at ppls heads. Otherwise be glad George RR Martin isn't being given Pulitzer prizes.