Checkmate atheists. Check. Fucking. Mate

Checkmate atheists. Check. Fucking. Mate.

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Obviously this is just bait, but I'm going to refute it anyway. The atheist even raises a counter argument that the Christian doesn't address: if something can't come from nothing, how did God come to exist? The Christian argues that something as complex as the universe couldn't exist without some higher being creating it, but by that logic God (who would have to be more complex than the universe itself in order to create it) would in turn need to have been created by an even higher being

>and we conviniently (sic) stood out from the rest of the animals as thinking beings
aren't all animals thinking beings?
and secondly, what relevance does the intelligence of human beings have in this debate at all? Why does it matter that human beings are the smartest animals in this context? Does human intelligence somehow prove god exists? I don't get it.
I do see the merit the "something can not be created from nothing"-argument, and I can agree that the big bang theory seems somewhat far-fetched, but I can not for the life of me understand why human intelligence matters here.

K.I.S.S. user, never say five words when two will do. Don't give a dummy too much to think about.

"Then where did god come from?"

See how easy, concise, elegant that was?
In debate, do everything to not make declaratives. Whenever possible put examination back on a declarative.

Which then means God isn't truly God since there is a higher power than him. Plus where did that higher power come from, and you get an endless loop.

Logic itself dictates that something must come before to prove the logic is sound, something that provides the basis for the line of thought.

so we cannot use logic to determine that God does exist and that he created the universe

we can only use logic to define and redefine the rest of the universe

I just like how they are both arguing about what they belive to be true, from books written by people they've never met, from before they were even born.. lel

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>Checkmate atheists. Check. Fucking. Mate.
So. Let me summarise your bait, as laid out in your image
>"I don't understand how we are here so a god must have done it"
Do II have that about right? Do you see now how poor your bait is? Go read some more and try again when you have a more credible argument.

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You like false equivalences more.

This
/thread

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>hurr durr I can't comprehend any explanation other than a creator
>hurr durr if you can't see from my perspective, clearly you're wrong

from my understanding the answer is: the universe has always existed. it didn't have a beginning or end.

Also, there is the concept of vacuum energy that allow to the universe to came from "nothing".
It's not because it seems weird that it can't happen.
Also the "intelligent" life can happen without any help with a lot and lot of luck. There is a lot of stars, one of trillions or more can create life spontaneously.

That is literally how all for or against argue, whats your point?

The burden of proof should be on the theist, not the atheist.
Because there are complex organisms, there must be a creator is not supported with a rational foundation. You can't think of a way by which complex things can exist, therefore something or someone smarter than you must have created it, is your lack of creativity.
Proove an invisible, unknowable, unfathomable, man (with a penis of course), that lives in an unknown realm called heaven exists? You have one bronze age book to back your arguments up and nothing else but 'what the preacher says'.

This.
The concept of time, beginning/end is a human construct where time is linear because of humans having an imbedded fear of expiration.

>there must be explanation
>thus my explanation

Uhh 0/10 TROLL SAGE LOL what u mad christfag? U mad? U mad lol?

Claiming that time exists in any fashion is also fallacy user. Logis doesnt dictate truth or fact it rationalizes the natural phenomena around us, but the phenomena of space/time is not something observable or explainable from a human perception as that we live a linear timescale while the universe could not, if it did we would know what created the initial forces behind the "big bang", as auch concepts are out of our grasp of knowledge, intelligent design is a default. Humans have always used metaphors to explain the unexplainable, why is it steeped in fallacy now?

>the universe did not create from nothing
That is debatable, however the hypothesis of a creator is just as unlikely as the hypothesis of t being created by nothing
>it's not the case that we stood out from all species for intelligence
You are implying that we are the most intelligent. We are not. We are simply capable of building shit with our thumbs and other intelligent beings such as whales can't.
And even if we did what did you demonstrate?

>credible argument

LITTERALLY WHO CARES IF THERE HAS BEEN A CREATOR.
who fucking cares if an old guy with a beard gave a cool thumb to primals or case did it? We are still going to act like we fucking please so what's the point of knowing if there's a god?

Imagine being so weak you need to believe in a superior being because you can't accept the fact that everything you know (and will ever know) is insignificant and just the fruit of billions of years of pure luck, was not "created by a God" and will at some point disappear into the cold oblivion we call entropy.

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i can tell you're morally adrift. you propose the pragmatic approach to say, in effect, we have no real proof that god exists, so we should act as if it does not. i recommend you read and understand pascal's wager.

It will disappear well before entropy if we keep it this way

Nice strawman m8

you can have both, science and god.
there is a high chance that higher dimensional beings exist.
why do people think you have to choose god OR science?

that's called deism and there's nothing profound about your post. it's an old idea.

never tried to be profound. just pointed out that retards believe you have to choose one side, when in reality you can have both.
now fuck off and suck a dick faggot

I'm aware, Laurence Krauss. But you expect these emotional thinkers to consider those subtleties?

No im not morally adrift.
In fact i have a very solid moral based on various philosophers, but mostly, and you would have never guessed, on jesus christ.
Still I don't care if mary was raped by a roman soldier or if she was impregnated by god, why would i care if jesus is really the messiah, it's pointless, i take the good that this world offers me and thank nobody for it since I don't know why or how this "world" came into existence. But as i said I don't care, the existence or non existence of god will never change my morality or how i see things

you're angry most likely due to your ignorance. don't worry i forgive you. accept you can learn and improve your knowledge it only requires patience and a calm clear mental attitude.

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"Insignificant" declarative. Insignifigant to whom? Law of scarcity dictates we are the most precious occurrence in thee entire history of the universe.

"Luck" another tough word. Determinism.

Proof that a god exists isn't proof that Christianity is the true religion.

Its odd that people automatically assume that athiests believe in the big bang. I'm an atheist specifically because religion is fucking garbage. Literal trash. Its the biggest pyramid scheme in the history of the world and nothing but santa claus for adults imho. Now if you ask me how we got here. I'd tell you I have no fucking idea but I don't believe in a god. I will not mock them for believing in God, I expect not to be mocked for being truthful in saying we/I really don't know. Those who choose to believe have nothing more than faith. I do not share their faith.

The Big Bang Theory is literally just that-- a theory. We don't have definite proof that it is what happened, but we have a pretty good idea that it did happen. You are right in saying that we 100% do not know the answer as to how we got here, but there are good theories as to how we did. Who knows, maybe a better theory will come one day.

Your fucking gay

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B-b-b-ut gravity is a theory too!

Friendly reminder that while the big bang theory is almost certainly correct, it is NOT intended as an explanation to why the univere exists. ONLY an explanation as to why it is expanding. The thoery does not at all attempt to explain how matter originated.
IT may not be in the form the bible seems to think, and it may not have even done anything on purpose, it may not even be consience, but there HAS to be some greater force at work that we cannot understand that started the universe.

please elaborate on why we need a higher power.

doesnt matter if you think you need one or not.
What does matter is that we have exactly fucking nothing to prove what started the universe. Humans are pretty smart, so I think its only reasonable to assume that whatever started the universe is something so powerful that it is beyond our understanding, like god.
Not saying the bible is the correct explanation, but I just dont see how something within the boundaries of the rules our universe operatesin could create itself without the assistance of somethign we cant understand.

It's possible the universe could be in a constant state of expanding, collapsing, and expanding again. Just because we humans have no concept of "forever/infinity" doesn't mean that "forever/infinity" isn't a valid answer.

>we have exactly fucking nothing to prove what started the universe
>whatever started the universe is something so powerful that it is beyond our understanding, like god.
these two statements contradict each other. If theres no way to prove it, why are you offering up explanations?

How was god created
>He came out of nothing, but your universe cant come out of nothing.

You have no idea how theories work. Speaking as if you do is lame.

Science is just all round fact, things that are proven in the real world, it might be written in a book but that's not the source of it. The books just document the real world facts, the bible is entirely different.

God isn't created he is eternal
But it is not the only way to arrive at truth or fact, also washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/27/fabricated-peer-reviews-prompt-scientific-journal-to-retract-43-papers-systematic-scheme-may-affect-other-journals/

Alright did you just not take a science class at any point of your life?

A 'scientific theory' has a completely different meaning than 'theory' does in everyday language.

An idea only gets labeled as a 'scientific theory' when it has so much overwhelming evidence that it is considered true without a shadow of a doubt.

Because having blind faith in dumb shit stands directly against science and their need to proof things.

since has blind faith in stuff like mathematics, the regularity of nature, the existence of an external world etc. All of that is presupposed when conducting the scientific method

Pro tip: The only reason christianity exists and why you yourself are a christian is because your parents raised you that way, as did your parents' parents.

It's a cycle that will continue untill a generation is smart enough to think for themselves and not blindly follow the same path.

Eventually it will results in religion dying off as it's a one way street, no one becomes a christian if not raised as one, for good reason, so they only logical outcome is it will cease to exist or be reduced to a level of insignificance.

Nice genetic fallacy retard

Untill proven otherwise, everything has been tried and tested extensively to a point where it's logical to assume it to be fact, but even then you remain open minded to be proven wrong.

Thats a circular argument, you are using the very thing in question to prove its validity.

Nothing is conclusive in science anyways, that's the whole point.

So you have blind faith that the results are true? Why else would you conduct the scientific method lol

Just the way it is.