You cannot say that you care about children and endorse and support abortion at the same time.
If you support abortion after the first trimester, you support murder. There is no other way around it. If a man were to attempt to kill his unborn child without the mother's consent (or even with it) he would be charged for murder. Therefore the legal precedence is already there that a human fetus is given legal personhood. Ergo, as a person, a fetus has bodily autonomy rights which would supercede the autonomy rights of the mother. There is no justification at all to allow a mother to kill her unborn child but charge the father with murder. You cannot grant the fetus personhood status in the cases where the father was the reason for the unborn child's demise, and then consider the unborn child a nonperson when it comes to the mother. Such a double standard is not only glaring but exceptionally foolish to allow to stand.
Yea that’s why it has withstood many challenges right?
Mason Robinson
Not an argument. Try again.
Angel Wilson
What if I don't care about the kids?
Jayden Murphy
Also all of those were operating under the guise that a fetus doesn't have legal personhood.
But if it doesn't have legal personhood how can anybody be charged with murder if they kill one?
William Phillips
Then at least you're honest
Connor Moore
Celebrating a birthday is promoting murder Possession of a birthday cake should be a felony
Kayden Sanders
I am perfectly fine with murder though
Benjamin Taylor
We live in a common law country meaning precedent is the law. Since better legal minds then you say that it makes sense and isn’t contradictory I’m going to go with them
Adam Walker
>Two people have sex >Only one of them gets to choose fate of unborn
It should be
>Two people have sex >Both have to sign off for LEGAL abortion >In case female doesn't sign, father is waived of child support duties >In case female signs but male does not, she gives up rights after the baby is born and father is responsible for the child
If the government wants to step in and outlaw abortion then they need to invest more money and resources into unwanted baby facilities.
Oliver Russell
The same way you can be charged with murder for killing someone one life support but their family can remove life support without being charged
Landon White
Females are too biased and mentally undeveloped to be involved in that choice. Only men should be allowed to vote on the issue
Aiden Stewart
>I'm going to go with the people who are paid to tell me what to think
You're not using your eyes nor your brain. If a man is ALREADY charged with MURDER for killing a fetus, then the legal precedence is ALREADY THERE that a fetus has legal personhood because you cannot murder a nonperson, at least not legally speaking. Are you following along yet? If the fetus has legal personhood in cases where men have been charged with murder for their demise, then that means that the supreme court rulings may very well become invalid themselves soon. You cannot have it both ways, especially not in law and the more commonplace abortion becomes, the more commonplace it's going to become that men might just try to falcon punch the little fucker out of you since it doesn't have legal personhood anyway. The precedence is already there in legalizing abortion. The only way you can legalize abortion is to completely dehumanize the fetus and remove its personhood.
Isaiah Johnson
Unwanted babies are divine punishment for premarital sex. The government shouldn't try to undermine the Hand of God.
Ryan Ross
Most men are uneducated and misinformed. Only an elite few should be able to decide what happens
Austin James
Except in the case of abortion and the fetus, both of the killers are familial
Andrew Smith
Which God?
Jose Hill
Posts like this are carefully calculated in an attempt to undermine my thread. Please ignore them.
Angel Morgan
Yes in an abortion and life support removal the people or person who has the right to decide gets to decide. Usually the family or mother
The person who doesn’t have the right and does it anyway is charged with murder
Not a hard concept to grasp
Eli Robinson
The only one
Kevin Johnson
All sickness is punishment from god. Ban medicine
Blake Wilson
Vishnu
Matthew Howard
Yes it's so awful that she's got to carry the baby for nine months but you give zero shits about chaining some guy for 18 years while telling him that's his responsibility now, time to man up!
If you can't see the hypocrisy, you're delusional.
Samuel Carter
>If you support abortion after the first trimester, you support murder 100% Opinion
Confirmed didn't read the rest of the OP I'm arguing that if you can be charged with murder for killing a fetus then legally speaking that fetus MUST have legal personhood otherwise you cannot be charged with murder. Murder necessitates legal personhood to count as murder. So if the precedence is there that a fetus is a legal person, and there are men who are either still in or have been in prison for killing a fetus, it necessitates, by law, that abortion should also be considered murder. Again, you can't have it both ways. Double standards in law are REALLY messy.
Samuel Edwards
We are but you're the one who started talking about how the decision should "fall" to the mother because it's "her body" but I don't buy it and I never will. The dad put in 50% of himself into that kid. It's his kid too. You people really like to forget all about that when it's convenient for you. If she decides she's going to actually keep the child (with or without any input from him) he gets the pleasure of working a 9-5 every day for the rest of his life to pay for it while she's "unhappy" and off fucking other dudes and in general just being a waste of oxygen
Seen it far too many times
Nicholas Cook
pro-choicers curiously silent btfo
Caleb Gonzalez
you are retarded fetuses aren't children. they are tissue, like a kidney, at best. if i remove one of your kidneys, you live, but does the kidney survive outside of you? no. until it breathes free air, it is not a true human. if it's not a true human, it's not anything more than tissue. you know, like the part of your dad's jizz that ran down the crack of your mom's ass and make a stain on the sofa. That, too, is human tissue, but you're not arguing to protect that. Nor are you arguing to protect the egg itself. You're just a fag. shut up saged
Juan Morales
That one over there
Easton Wilson
19 in my state
Josiah Rodriguez
>you are retarded the irony >fetuses aren't children doesn't really matter if they're children or not, if you kill one you're charged with murder. To be charged with murder the fetus BY LAW must then be considered a legal person >they are a tissue like a kidney I don't know if you just don't know what you're talking about or being disingenuous but you should stop talking and read up >if it's not a true human no true scotsman nice >more fallacy from assumption >clearly didn't even read the OP
1/10 because I actually replied
Alexander Mitchell
I don't care about children, I don't care about anyone. Your argument is invalid
Ayden Flores
if a kidney is still a kidney when you have it removed then by your logic a child is still a child no matter when you remove it
Jordan Taylor
>Another one who can't be fucked reading a small paragraph
Dominic Lee
You're not anything more than tissue. Runny turd covered store brand 1 ply tissue with a finger hole in it.
Andrew Smith
So you want to ban abortion, but have you really thought about the consequences? You want higher taxes, more crime, and a faster death of the white race? Because you'll get all of that and more by being so soft.
* From 1970 to 2015, we had 45,789,558 reported abortions in the US according to the CDC. * Abortions disproportionately go to black people, and also other minorities. * White abortion rates are low. * Imagine them all flooding out of the ghetto to the town where you live!
And even if you give no shits about the white race - * Most abortions go lower class aka the welfare class. * The taxpayer would be on the hook instead for 45 million welfare babies. * The welfare babies themselves pump out more welfare babies in 14 years or so.
Think about your tax dollars! But lets not forget crime! * The lower class (especially black people) commit crime at a far higher rate. * This is true even of lower class white people too, although less so. * More crime = more victims. * The cost of law enforcement rises. * More prisoners to take care of - on the taxpayer's dime!
Oh but what about adoption!? That's no answer. * There are already too many unwanted kids. * Those kids are raised by the state instead - on the taxpayer's dime. * The state is a shitty parent. * Most unadopted kids end up lifetime criminals. * Only a tiny percentage are successful instead.
So again we get more crime, more victims, more taxpayer burden. THE COST OF BEING SOFT IS HUGE. America needs abortion, like it or not.
Plus I'd like to propose that every convicted felon should be sterilized. And you should make sterilization a prerequisite to apply for welfare. I'd offer free (taxpayer) abortions because a mere $500 procedure is WAY CHEAPER than a welfare baby! And taxpayer funded vasectomies and tube tying to prevent them getting pregnant in the first place. Perhaps offer them $100 to get fixed. So they can get drunk, but will no longer spread their crotch fruit - that's a bargain!
is the first group of stem cells that begins to develop into a kidney, which has zero function as such, which cannot be transplanted nor be expected to do anything for the transplantee if it were done, the same thing as a fully grown adult kidney in a living human being? This is a tough one. Think carefully.
>scientifically, these two different things are the same >theyre different even though theyre literally the same really activates the almonds
Gavin Collins
Tact is rude
Camden Wilson
Double homicide with a pregnant woman is a specific putative exception to the legal precedent that a fetus is not a person (written by "tough on crime" politicians to get votes). Fetuses don't have SSN's, don't count for census, household size, can't get CHIP, SNAP, WIC or TANF, and don't help with a tax credit until after birth.
Adam Mitchell
It's not a tough one, you're just an idiot. A kidney is still a kidney no matter how many stem cells you throw on it. You're never going to get anything except a kidney from a kidney. A fetus on the other hand slowly develops into a fully formed human (not being fully formed doesn't make it less human). The two are not comparable. This argument is incredibly fallacious, not to mention dishonest. You're not doing yourself any favors.
Samuel Collins
The supposition that Thing A may or may not turn into Thing B under the right conditions over the course of several years does not imply that Thing A and Thing B are the same. Nearly atom in your body is exchanged multiple times over the course of a life time, even though you're "still the same you." Your concept of reality is flawed and childish. I can see why you think fetuses are people since your cognitive abilities haven't developed since the time that you were one.
Honestly I'm sold. ABORTION REALLY IS FOR THE BEST! ABORT THE BABIES! ABORT THE BABIES!
Closing this thread now! EDIT: WOW! My first ever Yea Forums gold! THANK YOU!
Connor James
fetus literally means "pregnancy, childbirth" in latin. Absolutely nothing about it implies that it is not still a human juvenile you imbecile.
Jeremiah Morales
Using fancy 10 dollar words doesn't make you smart, lil fella
Brayden Rodriguez
You can't abort a baby try to speak English please
Jackson Gonzalez
Everybody take note: this is how you behave when you want everybody to think you're an arrogant faggot Protip hotshit: we're talking about from a LEGAL PERSPECTIVE. You CANNOT charge somebody with murder if the thing killed is not legally a person. Men have been convicted of murder for killing a fetus so the legal precedence is already there for fetal personhood.
If you'd stop guzzling your own semen like some kind of cum-crazed manatee and actually read what the thread was about you'd realize it doesn't fucking matter because legally, a fetus is a person.
Leo Ward
You're actually retarded. You're the kind of person who not only needs a lifetime pass to the abortion clinic but probably should have been aborted themselves.
Isaac Foster
By the way, you don't sound crazy, you just sound stupid in the kind of way only a pseud could provide.
Matthew Hall
You can abort a launch You can abort a Mission You can abort a procedure You can abort a pregnancy You cannot abort any person place or thing. I'm sure your third world shitty homeland thinks English is retarded I think you should go back to it.
Robert Perry
>It's not a tough one, you're just an idiot. Thank you, captain obvious, for your incredible perception of sarcasm. >A kidney is still a kidney no matter how many stem cells you throw on it. Thank you for announcing how badly you misunderstood the post you replied to. >(not being fully formed doesn't make it less human) Is a pile of tires and sheet metal a car? Is a fungal spore a mushroom colony? Is a single infectious bacteria an epidemic? Is a collection of bad ideas force fed to a moron since birth such that said moron will never amount to anything benefiting the rest of society an abortion? No. They're close, but there are subtle differences if you have the mental capacity to understand subtleties.
What, that you're an idiot? That wasn't sarcasm ;) >False equivalencies are fun Quality post. Stop derailing and point out how and why the OP is wrong
William Mitchell
>being this fucking stupid top fucking kek lad I wish for your sake you were trolling at this point
Ethan Cooper
Stay in school kid
Landon Lewis
>Protip hotshit: we're talking about from a LEGAL PERSPECTIVE. when legal perspectives have any bearing on reality we can talk about legalities. The way the courts operate is as far from the real world as fairy tales. Courts are a tool invented by humans, like money. You can charge whoever the fuck you want with whatever the fuck you want if you can convince the court and the jury. A handful of humans are not difficult to sway; the universe plays by its own rules.
Caleb Price
Society justifies murder all the time what do you think war is?
Fuck off big government faggot.
Joshua Smith
I'm going to throw my two cents in here. Reply or not, I don't care: I am both pro choice and pro life. I believe that women can have sex with whomever she chooses. She can sell her body, give it away for free, go ahead power to ya sister. I do however believe in respecting life in all forms as it pertains to independent livability. For example I don't count parasites as life as they need a host to live and are ok for death. I don't think eggs or sperm count as life separate from each other as they resemble cells from the body that we have no control over. I view life as something that has instinct. Sound contradicting and it probably is, go fuck yourself. I view the conception stage counted as life. Someone gave a valid argument that unless a heartbeat can be measured then it can't be considered life. This would fall in life with not counting parasites, sperm etc as life. Women are not special. Just because God, Nture, Science(Whatever you choose to believe in) designated them as the carriers, doesn't mean they get special treatment. It's not her body, it's the babies. Calling to a fetus or clump of cells dehumanizes it much like calling blacks property or jews rats dehumanizes. It's a human no matter the stage of development and that's the reality that people can't seem to grasp. Whoever mentioned the law about infanticide coming from the father poses a very strong argument and I agree with whoever said that. Long story short, respect life. Use birth control, only have children if you want them and are ready.
Caleb Cruz
Legal perspectives are the only ones that matter when deciding legal policy you ignorant twat
Jace Reyes
I understand your point, next time proofread your shit
William Jackson
Stay mad that you're a special (ed) case, Billy
Liam Gutierrez
Court is an auction block. Whoever makes the highest bid to their lawyer wins.
Ethan Rogers
Stay illiterate chump
Sebastian Carter
a·bort /əˈbôrt/ verb verb: abort; 3rd person present: aborts; past tense: aborted; past participle: aborted; gerund or present participle: aborting
1. carry out or undergo the abortion of (a fetus). synonyms: terminate, end; have an abortion "I decided not to abort the pregnancy" (of a pregnant woman or female animal) have a miscarriage, with loss of the fetus. synonyms: miscarry, have a miscarriage "this organism infects sheep and can cause pregnant ewes to abort" Biology (of an embryonic organ or organism) remain undeveloped; fail to mature. 2. bring to a premature end because of a problem or fault. "the pilot aborted his landing" synonyms: halt, stop, end, call off, cut short, discontinue, terminate, arrest, suspend, check, nullify; More informalscrub, axe, pull the plug on "the “escape” key is used to abort the program" fail, come to a halt, end, terminate, miscarry, go wrong, not succeed, fall through, break down, be frustrated, collapse, founder, come to grief, fizzle out, flop "there are times when the mission aborts" antonyms: continue, complete, succeed
nouninformal•technical
lol Looks like you're the illiterate chump. >bring to a premature end >bring the baby to a premature end >abort the baby checks out and you're retarded lolol
Angel White
>miscarriage is abortion You sure are smart
Nathan Phillips
imagine being this butthurt at being proved wrong, especially after making such a fucking stooge of yourself calling people illiterate and shit man it must suck to be you right now fag
Liam Torres
Hey Literacy Gestapo, you do know that words can have multiple meanings right?
Jordan Moore
You have been the only person I've ever seen to make the lefts policy look reasonable
Cameron Hill
You can abort any process that exists. And fetuses. Not cars, houses, phones, tables, computers, shoes, washing machines, or any other noun that exists except fetuses. Ok got it I thought we were discussing aborting pregnancy
Ryan Rodriguez
A baby isn't a process
Ryan Butler
I aborted my tractor
Ayden Gray
>You cannot say that you care about children and endorse and support abortion at the same time. Yes I can. And quite easily, because I do not consider an undeveloped foetus a child. Neither do you it seems: >If you support abortion after the first trimester, you support murder. You draw the distinction between person and nonperson at 14 weeks or so. I say this is a really stupid point to determine that the foetus is a person. At 14 weeks a human foetus doesn't have anything an animal doesn't have. It isn't yet a person in any meaningful way, certainly it has not developed any new features beyond week 13 yet. >There is no other way around it. If a man were to attempt to kill his unborn child without the mother's consent (or even with it) he would be charged for murder. Therefore the legal precedence is already there that a human fetus is given legal personhood. Ergo, as a person, a fetus has bodily autonomy rights which would supercede the autonomy rights of the mother. >There is no justification at all to allow a mother to kill her unborn child but charge the father with murder. You cannot grant the fetus personhood status in the cases where the father was the reason for the unborn child's demise, and then consider the unborn child a nonperson when it comes to the mother. Such a double standard is not only glaring but exceptionally foolish to allow to stand. This I agree, it is an inconsistency. It should not be murder at all in either case. Without the woman's consent it should be considered a violation of her human rights, after all nobody can tell her she isn't allowed to grow a child inside herself, and I believe all violations of another's fundamental human rights should carry the same sentence: life imprisonment without chance of parole. With her permission it should be considered medical malpractice unless the man has the relevant training. With her permission and medical training and licensing it should be (and IS) considered a legal abortion.
Noah Jones
>remove its personhood Which we should. A foetus is not a person. It has no capability to like, dislike, suffer or enjoy until, at the EARLIEST, week 24. Personhood from week 24. It's the only thing that makes sense.
Aaron Campbell
I actually agree that 18 years of child support is not reasonable, but considering that the man's input into the child creation process is 'have fun for 3-30 minutes', I do believe that he should be accountable in some way even if he doesn't want the child, for its immediate circumstance after birth. 9 months of postnatal child support being mandatory seems reasonable. The mother spent 9 months giving up her autonomy for the thing, it is only right the father put in just as much, then he is off the hook if he so desires.
Zachary Lee
Wrong because your understanding of law is bad.
A fetus killed by a man is only a murder because the Unborn Victims of Violence act specifically defines a fetus as a "legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence"
If abortion isn't on that list then they aren't a victim of a crime and it isn't murder.
Ian Morales
And if we were Roman that might mean something. We speak English, which while derived from Latin, has many very significant differences in meaning.
Fetus means the unborn offspring of a mammal. In humans particularly when it begins to physically resemble a human. Child means a human after birth in most modern dictionaries and in most colloquial uses.
Julian Hughes
False premise with non sequitur arguments at every period. If this is the best you can argue then your cause is as lost as you are.
People who exist are more important than people who don't. Basic fact. A collection of cells that can't survive outside a host and cannot express itself does not constitute a person. Basic fact. If you think otherwise, you are not only ignoring reality, you are arguing from a position that reality itself does not support.
Evan Wood
A fetus is only recognized as a "legal victim" in specific violent crimes.
Abortion isn't on that list, so the fetus isn't a legal victim, so it's not considered murder.
>you can't abort a car Pretty sure you actually can. See you start making the car... and then you just stop. See? You aborted the car.
Chase Myers
>convenient double standard exists
it's not justifiable and is about to be overturned because you guys couldn't stop acting like insufferable faggots even after they fucking GAVE YOU ABORTION LOL
Jayden Stewart
If republicans really cared about children, they wouldn't take so great measures to cut health care and school funding. They ONLY want to control women. They'd revoke the 19th amendment if you could.
Andrew Walker
>Logical fallacy >zero substance post
William Murphy
[citation needed] Pretty sure not letting you act like some angel of death isn't "controlling women" it's preventing you from being a self-centered psychopath who should probably kill themselves anyway.
Austin Clark
your reatard :D
Jackson Turner
You can't be a victim without legal personhood law 101
Samuel Anderson
Tell that to a stray dog that someone gets arrested for killing
Jayden Martin
>revoke the word you're looking for is "repeal" They'd "repeal" the 19th amendment if >they could. ftfy Not that they actually would btw. Repealing the 19th would be career suicide. You're just a deluded weirdo who hasn't left their bubble world in awhile. You should probably leave your bubble.
Jose Cook
Special laws implemented to help alleviate some of the cruelty and neglect that animals face at the hands of human beings. They're also not double standards.
Grayson Evans
>False equivalencies Not comparable. As I stated here: Also no double standard. IE if I kill our dog I go to prison but if she kills our dog she's a hero
Carter Ramirez
They are too double standards. It's illegal to kill a dog or cat, but not a mouse, rat, any other "pest"
It's illegal to torture animals, but we conveniently say factory farming isn't torture.
Double standards exist all over the law, because humans write the law to suit our needs, and some of those double standards are fine.
Colton Gonzalez
Also a false equivalency. If a woman self aborts she also goes to prison. If anyone aborts anyone else's fetus that isn't a medical practitioner with permission, they go to prison. If one pregnant woman aborts another pregnant woman's fetus and isn't herself a licensed medical practitioner, without permission, guess where she goes..?
Not a 'double standard', a reasonably varied standard.
Brandon Russell
But there are plenty of animals you legally can kill, how is that not a double standard, because people love dogs?
By brother has a pet pig he loves very much, and it would be perfectly legal for him to kill it.
Jaxson Taylor
Youseethats the thing. I dont care about children.
Ethan Peterson
the need for abortions are the result of a lack of societal eugenics program implementation...
Jacob Hughes
Most reasonable post goes two thirds of an hour without reply.
>Special laws ...that confer victim status to non-persons, fully and beautifully invalidating your mistaken belief that only those with legal personhood can be the victims of a crime.
Grayson Thomas
Oh cry a river libtard.
Brayden Cooper
Imagine trying to justify killing other human beings. Why we haven't just purged these people from society yet is beyond me. It's sick.
Oliver Bell
It's only reasonable by your standards. It's also an eyesore, formatted poorly and riddled with logical errors. But you agree with it, so it's reasonable. You really should kill yourself.
Ethan Stewart
Those special laws don't confer any blatant double standards either though, which you conveniently ignored to focus on only one point of contention. If that is my child there is no reason to not include me in the decision making process regarding whether it lives or dies. "Her body her choice" not a good enough reason to hand over sole decision making ability to a single parent. His wallet for the next 18 years, his choice. But then again you're the same type of scumbag who can look at somebody dead in the eyes and tell them to man up and accept responsibility for his child while in the same breath giving a woman a free pass to completely bypass her own responsibility. You do this with a straight face which tells me you are either an absolute moron or pushing an agenda that necessitates you lie and fudge the truth wherever possible, like insisting that fetuses are not children
John Rogers
Imagine actually thinking that somebody should be locked up forever for violating human rights while simultaneously still trying to deny humans rights.
The cognitive dissonance is unreal.
Nicholas Walker
>You are the same type Nope, read my post at I am this person, who agrees that 18 years is too long for something you have no say in, but that men do need to take some responsibility for the care they failed to take. In this scenario:
Abortion: painful and traumatic, woman has also already been carrying an unwanted, taxing fetus all this time. Punishes the woman intrinsically for making the decision to opt out of parenthood.
No abortion, man opts out: 9 months of financial burden for the stupid careless shit you did, no lifetime of regret, consider it a deterrent to spreading your dick around carelessly.
Jonathan Torres
>You cannot say that you care about children and endorse and support abortion at the same time. Yes, I can. Life isn't black and white.
Zachary Sullivan
Fucking Vishnu >ultrakek My sides XD
Camden Miller
Which logical errors? There are none. His first point (that he can care about children and support abortion because he does not consider an undeveloped foetus a child) is logically consistent. He also makes a valid criticism of OP (that he has an arbitrary 'point of personhood' listed right there in his post), and makes a perfectly legitimate statement that there is no change that the first trimester marks in fetal development that makes a fetus of 14 weeks more a person then one of 13 weeks. He agrees the point that there is a double standard in the law but argues that it need not lead to banning abortions, but should rather change in wording, and more nuance, and points out that a medically trained and licensed man could in fact with permission kill his own unborn child perfectly legally.
No logical errors here.
Jaxon Gutierrez
A cluster of human cells is not necessarily a person. Until personhood is apparent, it is unreasonable to allow a cluster of cells to potentially violate the rights of its host by conferring personhood on it before it is born. Nothing in the law at present confers personhood on the unborn. Special clauses similar to those conferring victim status on dogs and cats act to criminalise the act of killing a fetus without permission and licensure. So no, I am not trying to deny any person their rights.
Anthony Green
It kind of is a person though. you don't see any errors because you are a dullard. It comes as no surprise to me.
Mason Ward
>Yes I can. And quite easily, because I do not consider an undeveloped foetus a child. Neither do you it seems:
Wrong on both counts. A fetus is a child. Whether or not you personally consider it one is irrelevant. Also can we stop dehumanizing it and calling it a "lump of cells" as if it stays a ball of goo until the last five minutes of pregnancy? Oh right, you can't. Because as soon as you start treating them like people (like they are) your position quickly becomes not only untenable but reprehensible as well. lmao That's where the double-speak comes in. You use words like "fetus" to dehumanize the child (all while still failing to take into consideration the origin of the word itself simply means "pregnancy, child birth" both of which obviously and unmistakably allude to children). At no point in human history until the modern era has an unborn child ever been considered anything but a child. This is absolutely, 100% a recent concoction you fucks have cooked up to normalize infanticide. Unironically kill yourselves.
Ryan Taylor
>People who exist They still exist inside of the womb. What an abortion of an argument. Back to the drawing board!
James Parker
>It kind of is a person though No. It's cells. If I swab my cheek and culture the cells in a gel, are they a person?
What, to you, makes a person, specifically? Because your definition of person seems a little off.
Ayden Collins
>origin of the word itself We. Are. Not. Romans.
Benjamin Nelson
This is a false equivalency. I have heard this multiple times and every time I correct you faggots you ignore it and keep saying it anyway. The swab from your mouth is not a fetus. Yet another abortion of an argument.
Adam Thomas
Completely fucking irrelevant. Latin words are chosen to represent things for specific reasons. You don't get to ignore those reasons because you don't like them you dishonest faggot.
Nathaniel Garcia
A fetus is an undeveloped human. Not a child. A pre-child. A potential child, but not yet there. Not yet a person. There is no inconsistency to this view because I consider personhood to occur at the point where thinking becomes a possibility. This point is most of the way through the second trimester. You attribute personhood to a thing that cannot feel, cannot think, cannot suffer, and cannot take pleasure. It can't even HAVE a preference for not dying because it lacks the ability to prefer. This is not a person. It is a blob of human cells, much like a cultured cell cluster is.
Elijah Wright
Now you're just trying to get technical to get out of the fact that fetus literally means "childbirth" and they named it fetus specifically because it is a child that will eventually be birthed?
Yet again throughout all of human history they have never not been considered children until now, when it is most convenient for them to just be a "lump of cells." What a bunch of sanctimonious, self-serving faggots! If you're so fucking concerned about the human footprint, fucking NECK YOURSELVES. Stop preying on the weak and defenseless you disgusting fucks. Sometimes I really wish the Judeo-Christian tripe WAS REAL because a lot of you pieces of shit really do deserve eternal torment.
Ryan Carter
You have not specified what you mean by person. It is not false equivalency. The cluster of cells in the gel contain a full human genome, but are not a fully developed human. A fetus, too, contain a full genome but are not a fully developed human.
What about the fetus makes it a person, specifically?
Easton Hill
100% false equivalency either way Your mouth swab is obviously not a person, but it's also not a fetus that will grow into an adult FALSE. EQUIVALENCY. Are you done being stupid now?
Hunter Hernandez
Because they are related to the same field. Fetus does not mean the same thing as child in modern usage. It has not since English developed out of Old and then Middle English. Origin IS NOT THE SAME THING as current meaning. Shampoo means massage, it is a verb, in its origin, but is shampoo a massage or a cleaning agent?
James Sanders
Yet you're here jacking off to furry loli porn. Kill yourself.
If they just wanted it to mean the same as child there would have been no reason to use the word. Fetus was selected specifically to create a distinction between born and unborn.
Luis Sullivan
copout with zero citation because you pulled it out of your ass It is demonstrably not a "lump of cells" as you suggest; it is in fact a human fetus, roughly human shaped and continually becoming more and more human; but just because it's temporarily disfigured doesn't mean it's not a person. It's kind of funny watching you guys try to say that it's not a person because it can't specifically tell you it's a person. Imagine if this was the metric for gauging animal intelligence.
"WELL, CLEETUS, CAN IT TALK TER US?" "NAW BILLIE, IT'S DUMBER'NA PILE'A HORSE SHIT!" "BETTER KILL IT THEN" "YEEHAW"
Leo Jackson
Born and unborn what?
Say it with me now... Born and unborn... ch.... chil.... child! Yeah, that's right! Child! Holy fuck it took awhile but we're finally there!
Adam Harris
Not a false equivalency. They are both human. What makes a PERSON?
Why will you not answer this?
Camden Jackson
No, it is a false equivalency and your insistence to the contrary won't change the fact that it is. Your mouth swab is not a person. Your mouth swab is not a fetus.
Is this your tactic in absence of any real logical merit?
Joshua Gomez
This one: noun: person; plural noun: people; plural noun: persons; noun: first person; noun: second person; noun: third person
1. a human being regarded as an individual.
A human being regarded as an individual...
Interesting. That's the only requirement to be a person. Neato
David Johnson
btfo btw gg no re have a nice life faggot
Owen Allen
>Copout with zero citation because you pulled out out of your ass. Actually I pulled it out of the dictionary. etymonline.com/word/fetus
It is demonstrably a lump of cells though. We all are. The difference is I can specify what I consider the mark of personhood and you evade defining that because you know your definition is shallower than mine.
Ryder Bennett
Oh, it's this faggot again. You're wrong.
Jason Cruz
stopped reading after second sentence. get a basic elementary school level education. you do not care about women. everything you are saying is false and stupid.
Ayden Perez
It's fetus you eurocuck
Isaiah Cox
How can a non human entity be a victim?
Isaiah Hill
We're not a "lump" of anything. Stop trying to get technical about definitions and then getting intellectually lazy here because it's convenient you pseud. Your difference isn't what makes you a person btw. This is what makes you a person: Considering fetuses are human beings that can easily be regarded as an individual by literally anybody, fetuses fit the definition not of a parasite, but of a child.
Imagine that.
Adam Allen
in and of itself not an argument. you can't just say a bunch of incorrect bullshit and then claim anyone who claims otherwise is wrong just because they claimed otherwise. if you support trump, you are inherently a bad and unintelligent person, period. if you're anti-abortion, you are inherently a bad and unintelligent person, period. nothing you say, ever, will ever change this. nothing you ever say will ever mean anything. you have lost that privilege.
Leo Morgan
>get a basic elementary school education Great advice. Here's a hot tip for you: if you're going to talk the talk, you better walk the walk too faggot. Your grammar is fucking atrocious. Your 4th grade teacher would be disappointed in you.
Joshua Roberts
I never said the mouth swab was a person and you keep refusing to answer the question.
Isaiah Lee
Not an argument.
Jaxon Roberts
No, you can't.
Jeremiah Barnes
>They're both people
this retarded
Connor Carter
>Hurr durr u bad cuz orange man bad Great logic faggot
Caleb Nelson
Deuteronomy 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.
its really clear in the bible, so whats all the debate about?
Connor Cruz
>inb4 hurdur i said they are both h00man retard! checkmate!!!!1 There is no difference between a human and a person. The only qualifier to be considered a person is that you are a human. lol!
Adam Jenkins
No, I am not. 24 weeks is an extremely generous estimate for the earliest development of the nervous system, the only thing that allows the human body to FEEL, and the brain functions that go with such sensations. Prior to this point you have a fetus that cannot think, and cannot feel. This is a fact.
William Long
Man that sounds wildly arbitrary and extremely unfair to the bastard child who had absolutely nothing to do with his parents alleged "sins" I'm glad God's not real because he sounds like a right faggot
Alexander Anderson
yeah, there are lots of things that aren't necesarilly fair in the bible, but whats's funny is that people fight over it without even spend 5 minutes of their time READING IT.
Brandon Allen
So people in a coma who cannot feel or think can be murdered freely. Cool.
Blake Thomas
He's not wrong which is why I specified 3rd trimester in my OP (yes I know a trimester is only 12 weeks) There is a point where it actually starts being its own entity, and it is somewhere around week 24 Prior to that it is actually, mostly a "lump" (and I use that term VERY loosely) of cells.
Jason Cruz
>Prior to that >Hurr I just gotta kill it before a certain point and it doesn't count as murder
Evan Mitchell
It took you a long time to dig that up. Lead with that next time. I however still believe that it is fine to kill an undeveloped fetus, person status by dictionary definition or not, because they cannot suffer until almost the third trimester, whereas those alive can usually reasonably judge whether they are capable of raising a child or will simply cause it to suffer.
Blake Hill
>3rd trimester holy fuck brain fart 1st* trimester 3rd, wow that really would be bordering on infanticide!
Brandon Cox
You're a lump of cells so I guess the killing spree is on.
Xavier Williams
Hence why I'm using it very loosely. It doesn't think or feel prior to that user. It doesn't have the capability to.
Thomas Mitchell
I also never said it was a human. I said it was human. There is a difference between these two statements. A human is a person. My cheek swab culture is human, not a human, but still human.
Ryder Flores
>hurdur i was playing on words i so smarty >i can haz cookie for my cleverness plz daddi? Your mouth swab is not a human being. It is not a person. Unlike your mouth swab however, a fetus IS a human being and is therefore a person It was a false equivalency, as I have already explained. Please try harder.
Bentley Lee
Not what I said and a false equivalency to boot. A guy in a coma is still physically capable of suffering if he has cortex activity, and no human in a coma has ever recovered from 0 cortex activity, so THESE coma patients yes, they SHOULD be euthanized, there is nothing to gain from keeping their body alive when they're already guaranteed brain-dead besides false hope.
You specified first trimester. I specified pre week 24, which is much later, and still has 0 chance of suffering. I can agree killing a human after they develop the ability to suffer is immoral, so can you agree 24 weeks is a reasonable cut off? Because this guy apparently can't.
Angel Rivera
You had me until you trusted the justice system to chop off the correct balls.
As I already agreed with you after the dictionary definition you took 3 hours to dig up.
I wasn't playing on words. I said one thing, a very clear something, in an attempt to get you to finally answer my question, and you proceeded to ignore what I actually said and pretend I said something else which I had not said by changing a word I had said (human) into another (person) when in the context person and human were not synonyms ('a human' would have been a synonym).
It's not wordplay. It's you charging my argument for me and it's disingenuous. You must be upset about this topic because you don't see any problem with pretending I'm saying things that I am not. It's a shit away to conduct yourself in a disagreement and makes you sound petty.
Aaron Johnson
Maybe we should kill you because you sound like a doomer faggot who thinks it's cool to hate life.
Thomas Cook
I didn't intentionally misrepresent you though, I misunderstood what you were getting at. I wasn't being disingenuous: I thought YOU were by trying to claim that your mouth swab is equivalent to a fetus. It isn't.
Bentley Flores
DURING the second trimester. Not at the commencement. Its nerves don't even CONNECT until far later in the second trimester and cannot convey messages to the brain until 23 weeks at the earliest, and don't function until 30 weeks.
And to be fair it should be a no brainer that a fetus is a person.
Gavin Robinson
I don't hate life at all. I love life. And I wouldn't want to bring a child into the world of I thought it would have a life it would hate, and I wouldn't want others to see my body waste away and pay to a God I don't believe exists for me to come back when there is a guaranteed 0% chance of that happening, so I believe in harmlessly terminating a pregnancy before the child is capable of perception, and being honest about the prospects of coma patients with differing levels of brain activity.
I'm sorry that my reasoning for my stance on this matter causes you to want to insult me. I'm sure it gives you some kind of comfort to do so.
Ethan Campbell
I'm sorry. I thought you were arguing through anger. I never tried to claim that. I hope we both read more carefully and offer the benefit of the doubt to our opponents more readily in the future.
By dictionary definition I suppose I now agree with you, but ethically I still feel as though the fetus is not a realised person until it has the ability to perceive. I have no problem with a fetal life being protected once it can do so, but absolute banning of abortion is ridiculous and 14 weeks is to my mind a poor place to draw the line.
Logan Richardson
I get accused of being angry a lot, it always makes me laugh a bit. I suppose I can see where they get the impression that I'm angry. I tend to swear a fucking lot and I love telling hypocrites (or perceived hypocrites) to kill themselves. I really hate hypocrisy and strive to avoid turning myself into a hypocrite. disdain4hypocrites
Christopher Barnes
Seconded. Hypocrisy is the worst. Sadly everyone has at least some hypocrisy in them.
Isaac Morales
Y'all being too civil. One of you better call the other faggot or I'm going to worry that Yea Forums is changing.
Michael Murphy
For me, if you are forcing women to carry their child to term in all cases, then you more ensure the following:
*That there is free at the point of service mental health facilities able to assist the mother (and father where applicable).
*That the mother and child (and father where applicable) will not be in poverty as a result of being forced to carry the child to term, and that food, housing, security, and education is provided.
*That contraception is available to all, free.
Nicholas Morales
Why abort? With all the gay/trans/binary retards getting married they all eventually realize that asses don’t make kids and pussies turned inside out to make fake dicks don’t either, so they adopt.
Jacob James
I hate kids though. Abort away.
Mason Ortiz
This is the boat I'm in. We need less people. War with China would help lower the carbon footprint.
Henry Collins
So Odin? I agree then. Hail fucking Odin.
Evan Anderson
This is what happens when you're an intellectual and can sort your shit out instead of making each other progressively more angry until you kill each other If the entire world were filled with people not necessarily like us but with our intellectual capacity the world would really be a much better place.
Jayden Parker
I hate kids and support abortion.
Asher Stewart
This is what happens when you're an intellectual and can sort your shit out instead of making each other progressively more angry until you kill each other If the entire world were filled with people not necessarily like us but with our intellectual capacity the world would really be a much better place. I'm just imagining what somebody with my ability to think abstractly could do if they weren't tied down by my complete lack of motivation!
I honestly agree with pro-choicers for the simple fact that less humans in this world is a good thing. People are trash. They're cute and innocent when they're little but it never lasts.
Jack Kelly
False. I assert this in the same biased manner OP asserts their emotional opinion.
Wyatt Cox
Most humans are uneducated and misinformed... ONLY I should decide what happens.
