Why can't developers ever get matchmaking right?

Why can't developers ever get matchmaking right?

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Because they add matchmaking instead of a proper server browser.

Nice facebook meme, you newfag piece of shit.

Because they are retarded. This shit has been solved decades ago by chess nerds.

All matchmaking is inherentlyn intentionally flawed.

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I think plenty of games have decent matchmaking, but it depends on what you're playing the game for. only applies if you want to constantly face people of similar competency, which is going to be a turn-off to those who want non-serious gameplay, or those who want an extra challenge.

There's also the issue of more variables than chess, especially once you throw more than 2 players and 1 class into a game. For example, someone can main one class and up their rank, only to be royally BTFO if the use a different class under matchmaking.

There are plenty of PC games that have both. Looking at TF2 commentary on Youtube (what else am I supposed to go by), you definitely have people of various skill using both matchmaking and custom servers.

>TF2
Ofcourse it has server browsers, it came out in 2007.

Also MMR hell isn't real.

matchmaking works as intended, you just suck

Server browsers have largely been getting phased out in general, and a lot of newer stuff doesn't have that function at all. Having both would only work if you could set your server to opt-out of matchmaking since having people who press the shiny "play now" button and can land in literally any server defeats the fucking point of having a server browser in the first place. I don't remember if TF2 worked like that or not.

What do you mean? I think you just vastly overestimate the average playerbase

Good players or even above average/decent players make up only like 10% of the total population. The rest 90% are casuals or noobs who rent the game or are just trying it before dropping it. That is why it seems you get paired with retards all the time vs the other team which more often than not is just group who have their teams premade.

going from mmr hell to pro is one of the most liberating feelings. Until you hit the proburnout hell.

MMR hell doesn't exist but fucked up matchmaking does.

You could be gold in league and still get matched with iron tier players.

There's definitely shifty shit going on with league right now and people are starting to wake up.

>actual ELO stops giving the illusion of progress once you reach your proper level and your rating stabilizes
>devs decide decide this is undesireable
>instead use a scheme that superficially looks like ELO but doesn't use actual math to decide point exchange amounts and continuously leaks new points into the system
>overall point average across all players keeps going up
>add new rank tags to keep up
>3 years into the game an expert player on a new account who never lost would need to play about 5,000 matches to reach the current top available rank
>the median player with a ranking above 0 has less than 1000 points while some nip who has never stopped grinding since 2016 has (*checks current leaderboard*) 974,741

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The inflation in SFV is nuts. Half the active players must be above diamond at this point.

>MMR Hell
Except those people are exact same as bad players.
>"I-I-I'm only stuck here because everyone ELSE is so bad!!!!"
If you're encountering nothing but bad players in all of your matches, there's only one common thing going in each of them.

Because it's a shitty concept that panders to tryhards.

Median for all accounts is Bronze/Super Bronze. Median for active accounts I think is around Ultra Silver/Gold. The best way I know of to measure active accounts is to do a replay search with no restrictions to get a list of the most recent ranked matches played by anyone and then tally the ranks up by hand until you figure you've got a good enough sample or you get bored. AFAIK there's no real way to automate this to be more scientific.

>losing a close contest or being tanked by a feeder retard causes the exact same mmr drop
Putting solo ranking systems in team games was fucking retarded from the get-go.

youtube.com/watch?v=g8c0psnuDc8

TrueSkill is the best ranking system, but it's M$ only

Bad players with experience = MMR Hell?
Then what comes between MMR Hell and Pro?

Multiplayer based only on matchmaking and dropping dedicated servers was a mistake.
Dedicated servers were more superior. Even when I wasn't hardcore cs1,6 player I still had chance for good times in 1,6 thanks to many awesome dedicated servers introducing stuff like zombie mod or servers where people just did random shit instead of playing. Same goes to TF2 and war3. Also my friend who was a hardcore CS1,6 pro player also had fun because he had his own servers.

Games like Team fortress 2, old warcraft3 or CS-GO actually made it well because they both have dedicated servers where people can have their fun and chill and matchmaking for players who want to play more serious.

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>Gears 5 nidividually grants MMR
>Do shit and get carried to a win
>Can lose points
>Do amazing but lose cuz shit team
>Gain points
>Eventually the system shits itself because 90% of the players are garbage
>Be Masters level
>Get a game with 5 bronzes and 4 silvers
>If I don't get 60 kills I drop points because I'm expected to just go hard as fuck against literal retards, and my team isn't dogshit, which lowers my potential kill yield

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If your game is too dead for top-ranked players to be able to get matches with other top-ranked players, why are you bothering to play it seriously at all?

Because I've been playing since Gears 1 and I find the game fun.
Sometimes you get 5 stacks that think they're hot shit but the moment you get your 5 stack on suddenly the "I got stuff to do in real life ;_;" excuses come out.

That doesn't make any sense that's not how averages work, if 90% of a player base is bad that means the average player is terrible, so you wouldn't even need to be good at the game to be 'above average' youd just have to be competent

Another wojak thread...

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At what point is a matchmaking system good? What metric defines it's quality?
Is it about making the most people possible happy? Then a system which allows you to pick a genre of players to play with would probably be best. Speaking strictly about matchmaking.
Would it be whatever system pairs teams of random players together the most fairly? For this to work the ELO system also has to be quality.
And like says real ELO ends with you near flatlining at some point, which is a problem for most players because it's discouraging, and developers since it makes people drop their game.

So then let's look at it from a developer standpoint, wouldnt the best matchmaking system be the kind that makes a player keep playing regardless of all other factors?

A few more things to consider:
Do queue times matter? Or is it about the quality of the match not the wait before.
What's a good distribution of rank, what percent of the player base should be in the bottom rank and how many should be in the top?

>you wouldnt need to be good to be good, just try hard

Is this unironically for League?

Just because you have experience doesn't mean you're good.

Being good at playing wrong usually beats being bad at playing right.

Because matchmaking can't be done right.
Server browser + community servers or fuck off.

MM doesn't mean you should get easy mode every time but 25% of times.

>Then a system which allows you to pick a genre of players to play with would probably be best. Speaking strictly about matchmaking.
There are many problems with that. First you have to implement multiple matchmaking systems what will eat additional server resources. Also what you will do to prevent for example wacky people from choosing to be matched with hardcore player just to mess with them. Also you have to implement rules that are bigass wall of text because it has to mention every genre of players to minimize potential loopholes and still players will find them. It will be easy to abuse by players and administration will not be able to handle everything.

Dedicated servers will do that job alot better, first it's a lot cheaper because people use their own machines to host servers, second every server will have own rules exclusive to that server and own admins who will make sure environment of server complies with ideas of that server. Not to mention dedicated servers could have mods what drastically increases gameplay possibilities, and modding at that level won't be possible with matchmaking.

>that are bigass wall of text
Which nobody will read, and will immediately cry if they're banned or kicked because they violated a rule despite not reading. Hell, I've seen rule lists that were like 4 sentences long, and still had people cry after breaking the rules, 'cause they didn't bother reading 'em even then.

>Everybody thinking MMR hell means "durf I'm better than everyone"
I'm in MMR hell in For Honor. I did moderately well during the game's launch and now it thinks I'm some God tier player when I'm not. It keeps putting me up against people well out of my league and I lose almost every match. Despite getting my ass raped constantly because I suck eggs, it won't put me down to the low tiers.

And imagine now game has wall of text as rules. Even more people won't read it and cry they got banned.

Also remember the bigger list of rules, the easier is to find loopholes. Top tier trolls will be pleased because they will just swing around loopholes to avoid bans while they can easily make other players get banned.

If you have

>Shit reactions
>Good game knowledge

or

>Good reactions
>Shit game knowledge

The system straight up won't know where to place you.

Not to mention the system doesn't take into consideration player attitudes and personalities.

They can, but don’t on purpose.

ELO only works with with 1v1 entities(person vs person, static team vs static team), it was never meant to mix and match random assholes.
also, it doesn't account for variable rulesets (chars with different abilities, fighters with differing movesets, in-match itemization to a degree)

they needed to expand mmr-matchmaking-brackets to cover for dwindling playerbase
you don't even need to play game to figure this out.
or they supplement missing players with bots, which isn't that unheard of practice. and it works all the way to top 0,01% where pool is so small you know people by the name.

That too, inherent playstyles that people fixate on.

"mmr hell" is just the dunning kruger effect in full swing

Not really. I know I'm shit, but all my opponents I get are way better than me.

because they never account for individual skill

i can go start a game of dota and feed down middle lane in a ranked game and those players who were unfortunate to land in a game with me will lose just as much MMR as i will

is that fair?

Because you're a pussy ass nigger who thinks fighting against people of equal skill is "forced 50%"

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Apex Legends was perfect when it had random matchmaking.

Adding skill-based matchmaking to the normal match queue was a massive fucking mistake. This system just doesn't work in games without massive playerbases as the top 20% of players just get constantly shit on by the top 1%. And it also punishes you for doing well and introduced a smurfing problem.

Nice fucking system, EA.

Yes and no. It is possible to implement algorithms that favor certain people. Like for an example to make the game more enjoyable for the people who generally spend more you can put them into more favorable teams for the first game of the day. Of course I have no real proof of this other than my anecdotal evidence. If I don't play Dota for a month the game just showers me with winstreaks. If I play even 3 games a day I just get what I find unwinnable games which then spiral into a 50:50. And now I am Immortal just from literally not playing often because of this.

because there's so many variables, especially in team games
people getting carried, one tricks, balance changes and the list goes on. shit like ELO 2as designed for 2 people playing symmetrical chess yet retards try to apply similar systems to even team games.
not to mention it puts people with wildly varying mindsets in the same matches which sucks when you have "hidden mmr" in casual modes
just make a server browser and support the usually vastly superior community-driven competitive communities for that side of the game. but noooo then the devs can't do data-driven balancing as easily and a server owner might let players say bad words on their servers.

I guess that could be it. I'd want to do some more testing to confirm before asking, but that's a pain to manage since the only one of my friends who plays ranked is only high enough rank to match with me on a good day. and then he gets put back in his place immediately, even though he stretches my sphincter in deathmatch

I put in ~2000 games of Dota 2 and my win rate was 50% so I guess it does work. Although I don't play competitive games anymore.

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This is why I quit Smite. I played the game for about 2 years and got really, really good at it, then took a massive break. When I came back my MMR was still godlike but my player skill wasn't, so I just lost constantly every time I'd queue. The problem was that the system would see me going on these huge losing streaks and say "this shouldn't be happening, give him some god tier teammates to balance out that win rate", and then I'd get carried effectively 4v5 for a match and the system was like "he won that game, he deserves to be back at his god tier MMR".
Devs need to realise that high MMR is not inherently good. Until they do, actual scrublords like myself will be constantly placed in matches we have no business being in.

Fpbp

Holy shit, this. Same shit happened to me in CSGO. Went fucking dead last every match across dozens of games after a several month break and it wouldn't put me down.

>Is it about making the most people possible happy? Then a system which allows you to pick a genre of players to play with would probably be best. Speaking strictly about matchmaking.

Problem arises from the games like OW really not giving you choice. You have quickplay, which people take as seriously as ranked, arcade, which is coinflip of good and bad modes and ranked, which is pure cancer as people who play casually join comp.
>Why they would join comp if they want to play casually!?
Why wouldn't they? Quickplay is as stressful and from comp you can climb ranks for fun and get funny golden weapons too.
Matchmaking games are only fun if you are a troll, because you can get people banned by playing badly but being polite.
For example
>Pick Tank
>Drop shield randomly
>DPS and healer rage
>Tell them that you are trying your best but you aren't that good
>They prob throw an insult or two
>Tell them that if they continue being """toxic""" you have to report them
>Guaranteed loss while DPS stops to write every 10 seconds on all chat, dies to enemy and rages more, finally saying "I don't even care dude, this isn't my main"
>Guaranteed report by like 5 people from your team
>""Apologize"" enemy team for your DPS being so toxic
>It only feeds the DPS-rage and he prob is sitting in spawn typing rather than playing
>Some carebear enemy team players report the DPS too after the game
Like doing something that is only fun in games where everyone is forced in a same small bubble. Live service shit etc. just encourages smashing millions of players with different levels of skill and dedication on an idiotic PvP shit.
Though sometimes people get so afraid of talking in chat in fear of bans and reports, that even trolling isn't fun.

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