What went very wrong?

What went very wrong?

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It started

this series was all segafags had back in the day so it became overrated really fast. later it settled to its rightful place as a mediocre at best platforming series.

gamers

Sega Japan

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what the FUCK is a sonic?

Iizuka was a one trick pony who's now the producer. Let the Utopia guys make a game
You're retarded if you think Sonic was all that Sega had

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Sonic was fundamentally flawed to begin with.

youre right there were arcade games too lmao

Jesus Christ, and people will claim that Adventure attempted Classic physics. They need a new gameplay style with Adventure-like controls and some decent physics. Also whats the level mod?

Sonic Adventure happend with the stupid story and the stupid new characters.

Nothing Sonic Team is making a ChuChu Rocket game

Everything changed when Sonic R happened, especially after.

For one thing, from Heroes onwards the controls have been largely dogshit.
Also, I'm playing through 06 with some friends, and it really cannot be understated how bad this fucking game is. Having such a big title for Sonic, 3D Sonic especially fucking flounder as badly as 06 did really just scarred the entire series.

They somehow were unable to make a 3d game about running fast.

Nothing, unironically.

I dunno man, they made some pretty fucking good games if you ask me.

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Throwing away the 3D engine they perfected with a shitty substitute just to make a multiplat.

>and people will claim that Adventure attempted Classic physics.
When has anyone ever claimed this?

Sonic had a pretty advanced physics engine at the time. The entire gameplay is built around his physics and the ability to turn into a literal ball. After they went 3D they kind of forgot that aspect about it.

Sonic levels are about branching pathways that intertwine, and Sonic can go very fast. This means that a meaty level actually has to be absolutely massive. In 2D this is fine, but in 3D this means long development time for a very short game. There are nine 3D stages in Generations (arguably the best a 3D Sonic has ever played) and even a novice player could play through all nine in 40 minutes. This meant they needed to add padding, other game modes, etc. The development time to game length ratio just isn't in Sonic's favor.

Nobody has ever claimed that, just that Adventure still has some classic design elements.

Sonic team is still bitter about the fact that some fans did a better job than them

Sonic games kept trying to do something different almost every game instead of sticking with what worked

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What "worked"?

It did attempt it.

nothing

Add a jump after the spin dash and see what happens at the end of a slope.

Adventure put it on a path to ruin and mockery

Sonic Xtreme never came to be, so they never learned how to transition to 3D

That said, I believe the vast majority of Sonic games are still very good and fun, be it 2D or 3D

Sonic franchise is still alive only thanks to furries and nostalgiafags.

They peaked at Sonic 3 and Knuckles and didn't properly translate it to 3D the same Super Mario 64 did

Nothing was ever right

No one should be a fan of anything that is patently mediocre, so why does Sonic have fans?

>What went very wrong?
Sega refuses to bring back chao gardens. Hell, a standalone chao garden game/app would probably bring them more cash than another shitty sonic game.

Disregard all the kids whose first impression of Sonic was post Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. Adventure 1 and 2 were impressive for the time, when Sonic Team still had passion and talent, but the redesign to become more anime-like was a bad move. They simply didn't really have an idea on what Sonic should be from that point on, unlike Nintendo with Mario. Sonic Team has since lost its talent and passion. Sonic Mania gives me some hope for the franchise at least, the good elements of Classic Sonic are still relevant, but they need to move forward and stop relying on nostalgia.

im not sure how you suppose to recover from forces. make another generations?

>Sonic Mania gives me some hope for the franchise at least, the good elements of Classic Sonic are still relevant, but they need to move forward and stop relying on nostalgia.
The entire team behind Mania is no longer contracted with Sega and work on their own companies, they arent even together anymore, Sega of Japan's take on Mania was to just pretend it's a seperate world from Modern Sonic's and that Sonic has no canon, all games take place in their own canon and that Sonic has two worlds one with people like him and one with humans that he goes to on a whim, sega in general has refused several story boards in the comics because they do not act as how sega protrays those characters now

Prime example, they rejected Shadow taking off his rings to overclock himself to fight the zombot horde thinking that the overclock effect would ward off the infection, instead they had Shadow tell Sonic to screw off and he's the ultimate life form, he of course gets dogpiled and infected for this.

As for that thing about passion, the funny thing about that is most of the people who worked on Sonic's bigger games like adventures and unleashed are now on various Nintendo products including Mario

So if Sega one day gives up Sonic's IP to Nintendo he may get better games since all the talent went over to them most of whom ended up working on the most recent Mario game

I want to snuggle Tails :3
Ask me anything

How they've never done a Sonic collectathon is completely beyond me.
The levels are too short? Put multiple objectives in them. It's that simple.

Sonic Xtreme wasn't even being worked on by Sonic Team, they were doing NiGHTS and Burning Rangers at the time

How did we go from this to universe?

>le sonic was never good
based zoomers

Gimmicks, and internal problems at Sega of Japan essentially destroying Sonic Team during the jump to Wii/360/PS3. That's more or less the exact moment, besides pointing to the Dreamcast's failure, because the change over to third party and their constant splitting of the teams during 06, hemorrhaging talent, and overall too short and understaffed dev cycles.

Sonic Team is essentially a cripple that they keep trying to pump full of steroids to fix the problem instead of rehabilitating it.

They do do that with the red ring challenges
Those aren't fun tho

The closest we got to that was 3D blast, and it wasn't very fun.

That's because they hide them out in the open on obscure routes or behind "jump with the right timing" challenges instead of behind platforming and speed building challenges

Did not translate to 3D well. Plus multiple rush jobs. Though I wouldn't place all the blame on Sega or Sonic Team. The fans, and I mean the really obsessed fans, the ones who buy any Sonic game no matter how bad it is because they have to own everything with Sonic's face on it, are also to blame for enabling Sonic Team's bad behavior. The Sonic games are pretty much in the same situation as the Pokémon games.

Those same fans also made Mania, which I guess shows that there was some kind of silver lining to the whole mess.

pivoting to nostalgia after Colors. Unleashed and Colors had genuinely good progressive ideas for the series and Generations tossed all those out and ended up with critical and commercial success.

The fans I'm referring to are the ones with no standards. I'm talking Chris-Chan levels of Sonicmania (and by that I mean a psychotic level of obsession with Sonic, not the totally awesome game). I mean that guy bought both versions of Sonic Boom after months of ragging on about the damn arts. It's like he's got a Cordyceps fungus in his brain that makes him buy Sonic stuff.

*the damn arms

Uh, whoopsie. Sorry.

Sonic's 2D games were slamming even his early 3D games were popular, but I still don't understand die hard sonic fans who keep willfully playing these games.

Unless Sonic's side merch sells really well, then it makes more sense. Sonic has a great design and aesthetic even after he was redesigned for 3D.

Sonic team just need to pick a playstyle for 3D and flesh it out instead of flinging shit at the wall to see what sticks and then not capitalising on what does work. Why does every game need to reinvent the wheel? Just keep the level design from the sonic stages from dreamcast era, since this is what most people praise, and make a game based around only those levels with no gimmicks like treasure hunting, shooting, fishing, teamwork, guns, driving, werehogs, aliens. Then when the core gameplay is good, try branching out with gimmicks to make the core gameplay better.

>but I still don't understand die hard sonic fans who keep willfully playing these games.

Literal autism. Autismbux are what keep the lights on at Sega HQ.

The problem with the Colors model they've been using isn't so much it's a bad one, but it allows them to be insanely more lazy with level design in them in terms of difficulty, and in the case of Forces, memorability.

- Sega mismanagement. Sega of America isn't competent, but the Japan branch are just pure retard and can't make proper executive decisions for anything.
- Sonic Team mismanagement. Between splitting themselves in half in the early years and diverting resources, to shit like the Yuji Naka departure that followed Sonic '06 being split in half for dev teams, they have no consistency, and now their best members are off doing Olympics games or not even in the company anymore while taking in new hires galore and pretending they're not.
- Sonic isn't timeless like Mario. He's very much emblematic of the 90's attitude and style, and while this would be an interesting idea to approach today thanks to the love for 90's nostalgia lately, Sega and Sonic Team can't make up their minds between making him a childish memelord and a too cool for school teen. The world and supporting cast tone have radically shifted on a per-game basis as well. Between this and troublesome gameplay design in point 2, this leads into the next point;
- No consistency, because the defunct Archie comics, the side/alternate-canon IDW comics, the three different cartoons and one OVA with different continuities, numerous games of different playstyles and design as well as far too many spinoff titles of middling quality, and so forth. It says a lot that some Modern fans feel threatened by Mania, because there's abso-fucking-lutely little proper refuge between all these different things that stretch Sonic's image and the series' fanbase into countless shattered chunks.

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How hard would it be to port the 2D physics into a 3D engine? I know they had to try to replicate the physics for Generation's Classic stages, and that it still isn't 1:1 but could more competent devs pull it off or would it be flat out impossible regardless of competency?