Underrail

okay, I know I can have better damaging sniper rifles but the dragunov's low AP usage seems to suit me

I always thought Underrail was an Undertale porn game spammed by the same people who think Phoenix Drive is funny

What non-energy gun complements a chem pistol best?

>Gas grenades don't get cooldowns along with regular grenades
now we're cookin'

>attack three with a fireball
>turns into a mob of eight alphas
oh god oh fuck oh shit oh god no

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How well does this work with throwing and traps as well? Would a chem gun also be worthy to invest points into?

but what are those bone piles from...?

well, now you probably gained the attention of the death stalker, if you are where i think you are

>prof gets abducted and the pirate captain says he's mad you stirred up the natives real good
>no option for if you previously murdered every last one of them already
curses. acknowledge my genocide, game.

you don't really need a complement to chem pistols. you can steamroll most of the game with them.

>but then I open with mania
>crit fireball them
>then bounce around some lightning to finish them off
>run around until I can finish off the last one
I was legitimately worried.

Scenery

uh, I'm in the lower caves behind the battery plant.

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Got sidetracked by real life stuff like 15 hours into this a long time ago, going to replay soon with the expac. Are spears viable?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAH

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NO NOTHING IS FUCKING VIABLE BUT TEMPORAL MANIPULATION

See you in two turns.

what did i fucking tell ya

Should be, play around with it a bit. If you need more action points try adrenaline or getting temporal manipulation to level 60.

todkira those bone piles were not just scenery

>Just finished expedition, didn't betray anyone
So that's IT? What the fuck? I mean I know I must have missed something because there's no damned way the plot just ends like that. I was at least expecting to have to kill a giant snake or something.

Yeah, you do want Throwing as secondary weapon skill with any gun build for grenades and Grenadier feat, because non-psikers also need to cover AoE and CC somehow. Don't need to max it either if you're using it solely for AoE attacks rather than single-target stuff like throwing knives, unless you're also planning to get Three-Pointer feat. Since you're leveling up Electronics for custom energy pistols you also get access to higher level EMP grenades and in the expansion plasma grenades that deal some serious damage.

>Would a chem gun also be worthy to invest points into?
Nah, energy pistols and chem pistols already fill very similar niches on their own by dealing harder to resist damage types and you'd be spreading your feats too thin since there's several energy pistol-only and chem pistol-only feats. Energy pistol user wants to use two different types of energy pistols (laser, plasma or AoE electroshock) and a chem pistol user wants to equip two different types of chem pistols (acid, incendiary or cryo-liquid). No need to mix the two because both already cover different damage types.

You could have killed the Shadowlith if you got clues from Yngwar and Ferryman to find the item required to destroy it. But yeah, even then it's an easy fight.

Okay so if I can't see this thing with 86 detection, then how the fuck do I kill it?
When do I get the ability to kill these niggers?

wait a second
>anons always call them roof niggas
>that animation
It's on the fucking ceiling isn't it?

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I kind of assumed that I missed something with the ferryman but Yngwar never told me shit. Faggot just got mad over everything and it took all my will not to pop his savage ass and just reload my save each time. I killed all the natives though.
Can I go find this thing and go back down there and finish the monolith off or what?

I like Cataclysm: DDA but don't like Fallout 1 & 2

Would I like this?

probably

Decent probability.

How do I replenish/get more supplies at the Aegis camp? I'd buy them shit myself if I could. Had to give away a lot of stuff to avoid depopulating even more of the Black Sea. Though honestly this place could stand a few more mass extinction events.

>if I can't see this thing with 86 detection
it doesn't matter how much detection you have user

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try using flares, grenades, or in your case AOE psi attacks like pyrokinesis to find them
and their only defense stat they have is for mechanical damage so remember that

>not just killing everyone who opposes you
cringe and slave morality pilled

do you want to be a cave wizard and use psi magic?
if so, its a great game
if not then its just endless anger

you can throw an aoe spell or grenade to reveal it. i think the animation is just their way of going stealth, they should still be on the ground... at least that's what i think

Don't think you can give them more supplies. The only thing you can do to help them REALLY is Kill their leader Magnar.

>getting angry at games with quicksave and quickload that are 100% single player
Get help

the anger comes from the impossibility of making a viable (optimal) build with out taking psi

I sit, i think "wouldnt X be fun?" then i realize "oh, i need to take temporal manipulation to make it be the best it can be".

Is there any way for me to counteract the -2 perception from the robe?

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already done, which is why i felt okay giving away some supplies. muties were fine but the pirates are asking for a bit too much.
>the reward for negotiating the prof's release with no bloodshed is briggs giving you an aegis jetski
>it's better quality than the one I spent 6k on a few hours ago
aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAA
Time to kill'em all, jack

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How about you just play the game you fucking autistic nigger? The only one making the game bad for you is you.

psi dont need it.
if you want to be super autist you could take it off and do a once over of places you clear

i'm doing a pure throwing build which is the most gimped build in the game and im doing fine on hard

>viable (optimal)
is this the build-maker autist's version of girl (male)? where the two are clearly not the same thing but if you squint real hard and fill yourself with as much wilful self-delusion as possible you can almost believe it?

its not about difficulty, its about optimization.
as a player of a video game, it is your job to break the game as much as possible. It is the developers job to make breaking their game as varied and interesting as possible. There should be many meta builds, which are all overpowered in their own way, exploiting different broken mechanics. This gives you build choice.
This game has no build choice because there is only one obviously correct build with minor variations.

>psi dont need it.
psi do need it
psi need to see traps and shit or else psi die, nigga

if you die to a trap then reload your last autosave
then start throwing fireballs all over the place
press the + on your number pad 5 times to speed up the game and make the process faster

just turn on your shield dude. or do what says

>that HP
>poisoned+hyperallergenic
>crawler still lurking
you are already dead

They are the same thing. The clarification has to be added for brainlets. In older times video games were less complex and you could see their purpose. This purpose was 'obtain the high score'. Modern games are more interesting but their true nature is obfuscated, allowing some incorrect people to come to the conclusion that the high score paradigm no longer exists. It does however exist. It is objectively wrong and bad to play a game in a sub optimal way. It is doing it wrong. Yes, some people might want to do this intentionally just to explore the potential mechanics of the game, these exploratory subtopimal plays are fine for this purpose. But one should never expect players to do this. The normal way for a video game player to play a video game is to try and beat the game as hard as possible. Thus the developer must design a game where doing this is varied and interesting making a 'good game'. The developers of this game did not do that.

>le trial and error

If I have two rifles that are exactly the same, but one is "scoped", is there any reason not to use that one? Like a close range penalty or anything?

Yeah alright faggot go arrange your sock drawer of whatever it is you do while grunting and stimming furiously.

just use the first room as your chokepoint

i get where you're coming from. i had ideas like that when i was trying to make my build.
however i found it's just more fun to play the game in a way that's fun. it doesn't matter if it's the most mathematically optimal outcome.
what do you actually think would be a fun build to play in this game?

>There should be many meta builds, which are all overpowered in their own way, exploiting different broken mechanics. This gives you build choice.
by your own retarded logic this doesn't make sense. one of them has to be better than the others. there's never multiple ways tied for best. how do you even play anything withou-

nvm, you're just autistic, i'll stop trying. the important thing to remember is that the problem lies with you.

>Stepping on caltrops doesn't reveal Crawlers

Fuck you, game.

There's no penalties to having that scope. The only mod with a penalty I believe is the Bipod which increases AP cost

Scopped only means it has an accuracy bonus or increased crit damage.

I love these massive sprites. Anyone know if they are handmade or models?

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PIPEWORKER DIFFICULTY

-all cooldowns have been removed, except for enemies
-you can respec your build whenever you want
-you can teleport wherever you want, whenever you want
-psi does double damage and has halved AP/psi costs
-crawlers dont exist
-enemies never use stuns or rooting attacks
-merchants always want to buy everything you have and have infinite money
-quest markers added, minimap displayed on screen
-you cannot be locked out of a questline
-oddity mode disabled
-guns/crossbows have infinite ammo
-to-hit chance goes up to 100%
-if you dont want to fight an enemy, you can ask them to leave

"This difficult provides a good challenge to the average hardcore gamer."

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Cool, thanks.

but you can see the caltrops disappear

Those are 3D models.

POISONOUS
ROOF
NIGGERS
in the dark

does walking back to home base ever stop being the worst thing imaginable good god it's ruining this game for me

it tells you in the combat log that they're stepping on them tho bre

use + and - to increase the game speed you pipeworkin northener

press number pad + button to increase game speed 5x. - button to go slow.

I can't decide on Mercantile or pickpocket, or just another craft skill dump. But ideally one of the first two, I need an economy skill.

alright, that's a fix
thank you

>not that guy and never knew this
What the FUCK, my god that could have saved so much time.

Play as a hammer wizard

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Oh my god. I've wasted hours of my life watching this little cunt move from screen to screen.

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It's even better if you have stealth because you negate the speed penalty and still get to scout ahead without insta-combat

Im so glad I figured this out early on, was using cheat engine to do the exact same thing.

any mods that make it so it work while carrying too much?
what's the point of a 'save time' mechanic that doesn't work when you need it the most, it's like the dev just wanted to spite me
fuck you too you slavic nigger

>NO!!!!! 95% CHANCE IS EPIC!!!!
>wait paitently for opporunity
>set everything up
>throw fireball
>95% chance to hit
>wizzes past everything and hits nothing
>have to redo everything

This is why you need to throw fireballs and grenades at your own feet for 100% accuracy.

Stop trying to sell me your shit Al Fabet!

if im not mistaken, AoE attacks can only miss by a few tiles and always hit their intended tile.
it's so you couldn't cheese the encumbrance system. the things you drop never disappear, though. if you are a turbo jew like me you can just pile everything up at a certain spot and come back for it later. by the time you get the junk back to a vendor they could already be restocked

>get mobbed by rat hounds
>panic
>throw fireball at wall 2 feet away

the number one strategy against muggers.

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>it's so you couldn't cheese the encumbrance system
how? it already gives you a combat penalty, does it have to punish me IRL aswell?
weight limit in games focused on scavaning needs to fuck off, if you don't want the player to make the game easy for themselves by carrying ever item imaginable then keep the stat debuffs for combat but stop punishing me with boring gameplay because I loot and explore in a game that is all about those things

If you are going heavy into crafting (and by that I mean needing high end weapon components) then I would recommend mercantile to at least 110 effective mercantile skill to unlock all the high end merch from vendors. You will also save a chunk of money early but that doesn't matter too much.

>Freeze enemy
>Status: Focused
>160 GUN skill
>11 PER
>Pop Focus Stim
>Pop Juice
>Pop Adrenaline
>Snort Vitality Powder
>Temporal Contraction
>Aimed Shot at 95% chance to hit
>Miss

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My god rescuying Newton without psychokinesis on Dominating was fucking painful

Is it worth it to give the Rathound king his queen?

Go ahead user, ruin that innocent woman's life.

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>looking for prof
>poking around the suspicious lighthouse pirate base
>oh cool it goes down into lemurian ruins
>hold on a second this room looks familiar, like i've seen screenshots of those statues posted in these threads before
>OH FUG
they weren't even difficult, really. only 50% elec resist means they die to two electro pistol shots
no professor, but at least I can make brain enhancer drugs now

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can anybody count more than 10 nagas in the game?

Electroshock hammers trivialize them really

Rolling a shiv build with psi as utility. This is gonna be fun.

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>Is it worth it to kidnap a woman from a loving husband and give her to a savage that lives in a dark cave covered in rathound dung so he can rape an heir out of her
Depends on you my man

You also have the option of chemical weapons.
It's not as much in the stereotype of techie, but a mad chemist scientist is still a pretty good stereotype

there's a Death Stalker in that cave
really hard to find, I only beat it by hiding in a corner with bear traps, as the bear trap will take it out of stealth

>damage of special attacks with ranged weapons increased by X%
what exactly does qualify as a special attack?

You're late to the party

they are
bear traps will still work, for example

>press the + on your number pad 5 times to speed up the game and make the process faster
............................

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105

feats that give you abilities like aimed shot, or anything that you have to select instead of just click attack.

yeah I thought he was replying to himself and didn't see anymore in the chain so thought I'd warn him if I could

anything with a cooldown, basically

>anything that you have to select
>cooldown
so is burst included or nah

Is Depot A being hard is a meme or Tincan burst builds are just this good?

dude was on 4 drugs and traveling through time with his mind, the fuck did you expect?

Anything other than normal attack that has a cooldown or another prerequisite condition. For example Burst is a special attack but it's counted as an "unconditional" special attack (it can be spammed) so it doesn't benefit from "+DMG to special attacks" modifiers.

does burst have a cooldown?

"CRAWLERS could be here" he thought "I've never been in these caves before. There could be CRAWLERS anywhere." The hefty weight of his steel sledgehammer felt good in his bare hands. "I HATE CRAWLERS." He thought. TenseCaves.mp4 was reverberating troughout the tunnels, making it far too scary even as the 700 credit psi beetle brain soup circulated trough his powerful, psychic brain and washed away his (extremely merited) fear of POISONOUS ROOF NIGGERS in the dark. "Play as a hammer wizard, you can go anywhe-" Player enter initiative 23+4-1000=-973 12 mechanical 7 toxic 13 mechanical 12 toxic STUNNED CRITICAL HIT 83 mechanical 112 toxic 40 mechanical 20 toxic YOU ARE DEAD

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It's hard because the floor turns to acid and there's a lot of them

burst is not included for balance reasons

needs him stepping on a red dream mushroom and you're golden

I'm getting tired of fucking slavniggers shilling their pixelshit here. Mods should ban this shit.
Sage.

Good think i've got 25% acid resist tabi boots then

Nah, SMG builds are literally made to burst multiple times in a single turn

No. As long as you have ammo.

it's just an extended tutorial stage

it used to be but then they changed it to make attacks with cooldowns more powerful to oblige you to take FUCKING PSI FOR COOLDOWN REDUCTION

>this fucking musical cypher bullshit

Styg my man I came on the expedition to shoot weird creatures and naked people not take a small 3 hour course in musical theory to figure out what the fuck I am reading.

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>being a musiclet

the puzzle is entirely optional, you could just quit

like this?

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just use the solver on the forums

Where do I even begin to look for Wit Nosek?

Does anyone know a general number i can stop at for chemistry for just chem pistol crafting?

The Oculus.

the terminal

steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843557165
this says 147+ for chem

it's the fucker in maxim's house isn't it? goddamnit

>everyone says to play as a hammer wizard
ok but how about a wrestle wizard instead?

Dodge and evasion are skills you need to keep maxed every level, user.

>everyone
no, one guy who shills his build every thread

Also know as a psi monk
It's a good build too, try it, I had a lot of fun with it

Obsessed

>everyone
It's literally one guy being an attention whore. He might as well start using a trip too, he's already acting like a giant fag.

just play a wizard wizard its the strongest wizard of all

Based and redpilled.
THIS ISN'T /vg/ YOU FUCKING RETARDED FAGGOTS
STOP POSTING YOUR UNDERTALE SHIT HERE

It's a really, really good build though. Perfect for newbies.

baby needs a nap

Is this some kind of ad

I switched to the strongest builds of all
Hammers hammer
And it's fucking hard let me tell ya

yeah, it's underrail threads that are ruining this board

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I want to focus on killing my opponents before they get a turn to attack me, especially because Survival Instincts and Fight Response demand to be in constant low HP so I can't really allow anyone to get hits on my character except when I'm certain my shield will nullify the damage. I leveled Evasion to reduce aoe damage when I throw grenades at my feet and letting my energy shield absorb the rest of the damage.

Now that you mention it, I only put points in Dodge for fancy footwork so there are 30 points wasted in there, I'm going to put them into Evasion.

No.

Play Now.

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is it bad if i find myself relying on energy shield hp every single fight

no
that's what they're for. taking damage, ever, is for chumps.

Not really
Later on in the game it's expecting you to use your shield
as a matter of fact, if you're getting through fights without even using it and without struggling the difficulty might be too low for you

What are the meta recipes for shields?

Crafting a low-low shield doesnt give me big numbers against low impact damage. Unless I need higher quality parts.

what if i fully exhaust my shield and most of my hp
i fear the battery cost

i'm playing on the hardest difficulty

I couldn't get into it sadly. It seems like an awesome game though.

yeah nah
you shouldn't be worried about it
the battery cost is part of the challenge

you hardly see anything but
>x2 low amplified
>x2 low efficient
>x2 high efficient

People make Low shields because crossbow niggers, also most fire arms are actually medium frequency.
High and Very high are for stuff like snipers, lasers, and explosions

Saves need to be character based, like in Pillars of Eternity.
It's such a fucking pain.

>Oh fuck the arena will probably be hard
>It's actually easier than most fights
>Most fights are over in one or two rounds

????

Yeah I loved that in Fallout 4

I've bumped into them while walking before. I'm a tin can so I prefer to just walk around like a moron to find them rather than waste ammo or grenades, since they can't really do much damage to me.

...wait for it...

the game's largely balanced around overwhelming you with groups of enemies
it's easy to think you're weak when you forget the PC is almost always outnumbered

thank you

why the fuck do you have two hornets dawg

because my mom lets me.

looks like different attachments
my guess is scope and tripod on one for accuracy
and then parts for burst fire on the other

>crossbows are a trap for the player
>but NPCs can decimate your anus with them

I like crossbows.

It doesn't matter how much detection you have because southern underrailers are biologically incapable of looking up

It's because Crossbow niggers in-game usually have one or more allies to occupy you while they snipe you
Also a single target stun is more useful for someone who's only fighting a single target, something the player never really does.

It's a lot harder on dominating where all the gladiators have 4 times the HP

I really want styg to implement companions in this game.

Always perma-death regardless of difficulty of course.

How am I doing? I kinda fucked up I think using my first attribute increase to get 6 int because now I have to wait until level 12 to use riot armor with shield and spear. I didn't know when I'd be able to get some and I wanted to get disassemble. Now I release that was kind a shit idea though because I'm just gonna use higher quality materials anyway so disassemble isn't super useful until later. I feel like there's a lot of fucking perks I have to get though, I'm not sure what to get first.

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>shilling
>entire thread is talking about the game, things that happen in the game, builds, lore, etc

I was hyped to fight against the psi monk but he just fell over.

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Maybe buildable robots based off of electronics and mechanics?
Or tamable pets dependant on biology?
or even just flat NPCs
Could be neat

crossbows are fine for players

>Pack Rathound with 10 fucking strength
you already fucked up from the start.

All the metal plates I'm carrying are heavy as fuck.

Yell is always and forever useful for non psi users

...almost there...wait for it...

Okay, Carnifex the GOD HAND fucked me up.

Until I flashbanged him, went stealth, and cut his throat, leaving him at my mercy.

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Don't carry so many then, dude. Inventory management is a thing. If you aren't wearing it already, buy a Lifting Belt to increase your carry capacity.

Is this worth it?
I'm really tempted to get it just so it'll be an option but I feel like it's probably not worth it.

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>Being a trapfag

GO INDUSTRIAL BOT
FUCK THEM UP

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bless you hammer wizard

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>not seeing the utility of traps
bruh

professor is back safe and sound but there are an awful lot of pirates left still alive.

gonna have to fix that, I think.

I gotta figure out how to bait those into fighting each other

It really seems like there's just a lot of good feats I could take for a psi monk, are there any that you guys would say that are absolutely essential?

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in combat you're paying 25 action points for a single target 3 turn root
out of combat some traps can't be placed without it as you'll be detected. in particular you can plant trap extra close to the enemies and then back off before you're spotted

literally throw a grenade anywhere

'I have been programmed to rape your ass'

inventory management is hard

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>start with a very specific build in mind
>all the containers are giving me exactly what i need or would need later on
i like styg's loot system.

Aight, next time I'm not sure what feat to pick I'll take it

>Sure Step specialization gives you 20% chance per specialization point to dodge any bear trap
What the fuck styg this is too OP

sprint

Sprint and nimble if you're going dodge/evasion

>try to fight mordre
>he pulls out a fucking sniper rifle and one shots me
>probably cut off my dick and used it for eel bait

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>not offering to kill the rathound king for the camp, kidnapping the woman and bringing her to the rathound king, then killing everyone so you can get 2x the reward

who /chaotic evil/ here?

So how do I deal with not being able to take a single step without using action points unless I have sprint as a tin can?

by using doors/corners to bring enemies to you and having multiple ways to root or stun them

or just plod up to them while they tink away at you

You don't
that's the price of duct taping steel plates to yourself to try and achieve godhood

There are plenty of guides, including one by some fag who legit MS Paint'd a solution of steam. I solved it last night. It's obscure as shit but not too hard once you figure out what to do.

What if they have fancy nerd guns?

Has anyone tried using the sound gun seriously? Is it good?

equip movement speed increasing shoes or be a psifag and get temporal manipulation spells

thats rare, and you'll have a shield by then

it has situational uses; not really worth a slot by the time you get it

my boots have springs and yet I only have 6 movement points still

Pop jumping beans and/or put 55 points in TM

viable does not mean optimal you dumb shit.

>door suddenly costs more action points
what the fuck?

I don't understand the difference between types of shields.

I don't get this anti-psi autism. They're just skills. I don't see how putting points in TM is any different than getting some traps or throwing. TM is a support skill that's literally designed to be appealing to every playstyle with the cost of 25% hp and being vulnerable to psi cognitive interruption

underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Combat_Stats#Shielding

Problem being that the penalties are completely negligible for the amount of utility you get from it for so little investment. Psi Empathy should bring more penalties than a measly -25% HP, it should impact your physical stats in some way, like -1 STR in addition to the lesser HP.

Throwing builds viable?

>high damage and great utility that scales with skills and requires no resources or crafting to use
>skills that require accuracy are actually in the minority, most psi has guaranteed to-hit chance
>can use multiple attacks that bypass all shields and armor, has 100% accuracy, and atleast one has no cooldown
>but should you decide to craft, there are a plethora of items that will make the already broken mechanic even more busted

I wiped out a protectorate outpost and stole one of their jet skis. I left no witnesses, but how much trouble will I get into for stealing it? Would I be able to take it to core city?

Throwing doesn't even increase your damage, just precision. You don't need to have throwable in your build to use nades.

>jumpscares
Got me good.

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Okay now I get why this dude is a minor meme in these threads. Great dev commentary on the typical player.

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I think he means pure throwing
and it absolutely scales as far as the throwing knives go

Three pointer scales with throwing and the damage of throwing knives is based on your throwing skill as they have no item quality.

Yes, this is what i mean, is it possible? Is there a poisoner build?

he even bitches about the fact that weight exists
it's great

Is the skill description incorrect then?

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That dude can and probably will kill you in a single turn if you don't immediately murder him, which desu is fairly easy as an AR tincan though.

The shop system is still shit from gameplay perspective, even if you put a caricature of someone who criticized it in.

Yes.

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There are good builds for it. And the Ripper feat gives your knives real good crit damage. Since you level Throwing to max (and also DEX) you will end up with about 300 effective throwing by the end game. Combine with Three-Pointer that gives your grenades a 50% chance to crit which is fucking amazing on Mark V's.
And yeah, poisoner build. Stack like 4 or 5 poisons on a tin can and watch him melt from the inside. Just max DEX to get more knife throws.

Possible?
yes
Viable?
Not on harder difficulties unless you want to turn the game into an f9 simulator
I dunno about a poisoner build, but I'd recommend grabbing traps too as throwing on it's own would be pretty rough
and traps scales with dex too, which is the main skill of throwing so that's good
make sure you have 7 int for crafting
and otherwise put points into agility and dex, and every level focus on Dex as it is your attack stat
yeah
wiki even shows that throwing knives scale
underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Throwing_Knife

when will I need 12 will to get all the checks? can I wait until I get the +2 base point feat?

Goddamn it Styg...

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I see, thanks. But I imagine there won't be scaling for grenade damage, right?

Anti-psi autists can't handle playing suboptimally but are retarded and don't realize that psi isn't overpowered, everything else is underpowered when not paired with psi. The game's difficulty is balanced around having psi.

Your grenade crit chance scales with your throwing level so it pretty much does.

Normally no but with the Three-Pointer feat your grenades can critically strike with that chance scaling with your Throwing skill.

That's bullshit. The base game is clearly not balanced around TM. That's what really broke the balance in psi's favor.

>autist hyperfocuses a single thing and tries to use it to inductively prove that a whole group of things are broken
Go do play with your fidget spinner or watch anime or something you fucking faggot. Your brain clearly doesn't work.

>get past station in junkyard to find the missing train
>jumped by 2 knifing hobos from stealth who spam crippling strike and makes weapons useless
I was upset and disappointed at myself

The game isn't balanced with Psi at all. TM is still crazy good in Expedition since the best ability scales with your character.

I feel the same way and I like Underrail. Although I did play the majority of fallout 2, towards the end the content was obviously rushed and left me less interested.

how do become a knife hobo

The only way to balance Temporal Manipulation is to remove Psycho-Temporal Contraction.

I just deal with the nonexistent MP. If I have to move for whatever reason, I typically either do it all in a single turn, or move one or two tiles and throw a grenade, since burst leaves me with enough AP to move like half a tile.

Shut up nigger, christ you're stupid

TM is universally beneficial. Literally every kind of build benefits dramatically from it.
Since you're already popping the psi pill, you might as well grab the good TK shit while you're at it.
All this leads to builds feeling samey, which is obviously a problem.

psi was already broken, temp manip just made it worse

Psi is simply too powerful for various reasons, the biggest of them being that one stat WIL covers everything from damage to AoE to utility to crowd control, whereas other builds have to often balance several different stats around. The mana costs become a complete non-issue due to the sheer number of psi cost reduction mechanics that stack. There never was a reason to not go all-out on WIL if playing a psiker.

Expedition tried to solve this by giving us a new school that's useful even with 3 WIL, but the problem now is that the new abilities are so damn good that there's never a reason to NOT take TM, as global cooldown reduction and increased AP/MP are stuff that literally every single build in the game benefits from. You can also stop leveling up the skill entirely at measly 55 or 70 without any sort of downsides as well since the utility effects don't scale with your effective skill. -25% HP doesn't mean shit in this game due to sheer number of save-or-suck attacks like stuns or roots that mean you're fucked either way if you get hit by them regardless of whether you have a slightly higher HP pool; it's always better to have more actions per turn so you yourself can kill enemies, or spam AoE and crowd control to prevent them from acting in the first place.

>Psi is so good that it instantly makes your character better no matter your build and enemy Psi users are high priority on the kill list
ok retard

what is more important for chem pistols, dex or perception?

>There never was a reason to not go all-out on WIL if playing a psiker.
The same thing applies to a lot of builds. Hammer, AR/sniper, and crossbow. The only thing that muddies the waters are light weapons, but they're a case of "hit an obvious DEX breakpoint then pump your main stat."
Also only fags use pysker in the context of Underrail.

>autistic hyperfocus again
Go stim in a corner, you're in time out.
No it's not, that's what you dipshits don't get. The game is SUPPOSED to be played with at least a partial psi build. Other builds are under-tuned. Psi isn't more powerful than guns, guns are not as good as psi.
>b-b-but the game still isn't hard enough even on LE DOMINASHUN if I put even a single point into psi REEEE
All games get easier once you understand them. No game maintains perfect difficulty throughout.

Armor sloping might be worth it.

Also, if you level mechanics and chemistry, it does in the sense that you can craft better ones

shut up, faggot

anyone?

>The game is SUPPOSED to be played with at least a partial psi build.
Prove it.

>no argument
dilate and kys

>the developer is so incompetent that they put in overpowered bullshit that you were never intended to use and that was never tested even once
This is what you're saying, right? Because my proof is that you can easily add psi to every single build from the beginning and that the prime benefit that your character has over others is being allowed to be versatile. The game is intended to be played with the tools provided. You are either insulting the developers' intelligence or totally autistic if you think otherwise.

Is it possible to build a psi monk with enough int and willpower to get all the lore tidbits, or would that not be worthwhile?
I'm still looking through all my options for character creation and there's just so much shit I could do, it's hard for me to decide what would be the most fun.

I'm not really advocating for balance unlike these other assholes. But to say the game is balanced around your character having Psi is dumb. Psi is damn good but it's pretty obvious that it's an option, not a requirement.

this character is the main reason i am want to purchase this game
i hope he gets enough screentime

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If the game was designed around psi you wouldn't have the choice of popping the pill. You'd be naturally psychic.

>psi is strong and it's supposed to be that way
>my evidence is that psi is strong
??????

You've clearly missed the entire point of what I said. The game is balanced around psi the same way it's balanced around traps, stealth, crossbows, weapon crafting, etc. You are intended to have it on a character. You are allowed to have it on a character just like other skills. It is not overpowered. psi builds being better than non-psi builds means that non-psi builds need a buff.
>inb4 muh PTC
One ability does not invalidate every single psi skill.
>is literally retarded
>can't read

The shop system is the only means of balancing how outrageously rich you'd otherwise become in 2 hours of play. You already get so much money by the time you've done a couple quests in Junkyard it shouldn't even matter anyway. Past that it shouldn't be an issue, unless you really are an Al Fabet tier hoarder who can't stand to not loot up every stupid rathound leather and shitty 5mm pistol you find just to sell it, which is not only a stupid mechanic most RPGs use but also a dumb habit most RPG players have.

It makes 0 sense from a roleplay perspective to loot literally everything you see and for any random merchant to buy literally every piece of trash you picked up. Everybody's just spoiled by games like Fallout where any retard will sell you a badass laser gun or something just because you threw enough pocket lint and paper clips at him. Then it reinforces this into a chronic habit to where even players that are basically billionaires are still carting around 200lbs of dumpster diving knick knacks on the off chance they might need it for some reason.

>if the game was designed around stealth you wouldn't be able to not put points into it
This is you.

>IT'S IN THE GAME SO YOU'RE MEANT TO USE IT
>JUST PUT 1 POINT INTO EVERY SKILL ON LEVEL UP LOL
>DON'T FORGET TO HAVE BALANCED STATS YOU'RE MEANT TO USE ALL OF THEM

menacing

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Hey, I'm going to need that 13 quality rathound leather one day. My locker must have space manipulation powers.

>autist furiously capslocking bullshit onto the internet because he's physically incapable of admitting when he's wrong and stupid because he's mommy's special boy
>literally too angry to make an argument
Go sit in time out.

>The same thing applies to a lot of builds. Hammer, AR/sniper, and crossbow.
All of the weapons you listed require several different stats or sorely lack in certain gameplay areas, nigga.

Hammers and pretty much all melee lack proper AoE altogether and need to come up with ways to compensate.
ARs and snipers both need STR and PER, plus a way to get AoE and CC elsewhere.
Crossbows don't need STR but they're intended to be used with traps that require DEX for their feats. Thankfully at least it goes together with Grenadier.
Light weapons, especially ranged light weapons are a complete clusterfuck.

Compare that to psi where WIL covers all possible combat needs under one stat.

WIL doesn't cover running away, not dying from a strong breeze, spotting traps, crafting, or really anything except dunking on brainlets and a few dialogue things. Stop acting like burst AR tincans aren't a thing.

>it makes 0 sense from a roleplay perspective to be a scavenger and use what you find from the environment to survive and craft gear made from trash
this is you

>Sneaky talking about Jon the Beautiful
>broke up with him just because he eats a lot
>dude isn't even fat
>probably just has a high metabolism or some traumatic childhood near-starvation event

I thought Jon was an annoying faggot ever since the first time I met him and now I feel bad for him.

contraction, force field, literally any aoe spell, sure no crafting

Eat shit.

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Dude is a BRAAAAAAAP poster.

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The problem is the only thing justifying not going pure psi is not taking psi and trying to use those 25% extra hitpoints, because if you take psi 'for temporal manipulation' you may as well go pure psi because thats even more optimal than any psi+anything else build.

The psi feat is a sort of fork in the road for theory. You can either go psi or you can go hitpoints, that becomes the trade off. Before temporal manipulation, psi was strong but it was like another set of non psi abilities. It had damage, it had some utility. You could mimik its capabilities in a less convenient way, and have those hitpoints, and be able to justify it. The non psi build made sense, even if it was not the best build, they were all able to be the best at what they were trying to be, the best sniper build, the best smg build, etc. You could pick a weapon and theme and go for it and optimize it.

Now however, optimizing any of these builds leads you straight to temporal manipulation. The best sniper has temporal manipulation, the best crossbow build has temporal manipulation, the best hammer build has temporal manipulation.

This means now, where you could justify not taking psi, you no longer can, the bonuses of temporal manipulation outweigh the hitpoint loss in every single kind of build. But this means every build must be a psi build. and in the end a psi heavy build is better than a psi hybrid build.

And so before you followed the flow chart of build optimization you could arive at multiple optimal, but now the only optimal is a cave wizard, the only variations being between ancillary skills and playstyle-supporting decisions, and not the majority of the skill and feat selection.

Temporal manipulation ruins everything

>contraction for running away on pure psi
Yeah alright go ahead and try that in any fight where you're under threat.
>force field
Useless against meleeniggers if they've closed range with you, requires a feat to be actually useful. Admittedly helps in running but only situationally.
>literally any aoe spell
Yeah let me just waste a pyro mid-fight to avoid mines.
WIL does not cover everything psi needs unless you absolutely love F9, and if you do then you don't need psi at all.

>needs exactly one stat
>psi skills make each other stronger, items make them stronger still
>low ap costs; can cast multiple spells each round
>most of them can't miss
>replenished by the most easily farmed drug
>CC out the ass, multiple choices in a given round
>has a mass version at lvl 14
>forcefield
>lategame crits are on par with energy pistols
>and now they get temp psi on top of all that

"Psi is fine, its everything else that's the problem!"

>you may as well go pure psi because thats even more optimal than any psi+anything else build
Somebody has never seen a decent psi sniper. Pure psi can steamroll normal for sure, but it isn't nearly durable enough for harder difficulties and runs out of steam fast. Plus you need to waste 20 skill points per level to make pure psi actually good. You've clearly never tried building a non-psi build.

>Yeah let me just waste a pyro mid-fight to avoid mines
why are you fighting in mines

>requires a feat to be actually useful
look at this absolute nigger

Do you complain about dex builds in Dark Souls too? Nobody is forcing you to play psi.

He was just some dude lel with a silly little side quest, but with the expansion it's turned into a full blown quest line that is very, very interesting, to say the least, and it's actually pretty important for what it gives you.

>door closes itself whenever I f9
>mash f5 several time standing in doorway
>press f9 again after I die to the fucking crippling strike stack bullshit
>I am now one with the door and cannot escape

I fucking love this guy.

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>this skill based system is designed such that you are intended to ALWAYS take certain skills
Then why have them be skills in the first place?

There are only a few possibilities here. Either the above is true, and the developer is an idiot for having skills which are not optional that the player is intended to always take; The above is true, and the develop is an asshole for intentionally making newbie traps; The above is not true, and the develop is an idiot for being so abysmally shit at balance that he introduced a skill that is impossible to justify not taking in any build.

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>asshole for intentionally making newbie traps
lmao look at this nigga never played a crpg in his life

>Nobody is forcing you to play psi.

why dont you pick an argument and stick with it

if psi were player only, I wouldn't give a single shit
I'd call it easy mode and be done with it

>haha this 2 turn wall is so good for fighting
That's not even enough time to run out most cooldowns even with TM. Force field requires a feat to be actually useful. Any situation where you use it without a feat is a situation where you probably could have done something more useful, barring putting it up at a transition and using the time to run on the next turn.
>>this skill based system is designed such that you are intended to ALWAYS take certain skills
Congratulations on not reading my post.

>go to assassinate Bob for the warehouse mission
>open his room's door
>murk him
>close the door
>everyone comes out of their rooms to investigate
>makes sense, I did just full auto a guy in a shitty motel
>they don't care about the dead body
>or me holding a rifle in his room
>closing the room door makes everybody aggro and try to kill me

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>WIL doesn't cover running away, not dying from a strong breeze, spotting traps, crafting, or really anything except dunking on brainlets and a few dialogue things
I didn't mention crafting and survivability related stuff because they're shared between all builds, I thought that was a given. Point being that non-psikers need to invest in several different OFFENSIVE stats to cover all different combat needs (STR, DEX, PER) + survivability related stats, whereas psi users need only invest in one OFFENSIVE stat to cover everything (WIL) + survivability related stats. They can use the leftover stat points to raise defensive stats even further, or just keep pumping WIL since everything they need scales based on it.

>assmen
>brap fetishists
ye sure

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>arguing that forcefield isnt OP
Call it ad hominem, call it "no argument", but you're a retarded nigger and there's no point in arguing with you

>everyone who disagrees with me is one person

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Being an assman inevitably leads to becoming a BRAAAAAAAAAP poster.
It's just one of those rules of life.

fucking HOW do i detect stalkers with my 3 per melee BUILD
detection goggles do SHIT
would picking up paranoia help or do i just need to accept my fate

It's no more OP than stasis, and frankly if you need to use it you're probably losing the fight anyway as pure psi.

did you trying duct taping more metal plates to yourself

have you considered not trying to detect them and instead trying to fight enemies you can't see

Is it possible to get to forsaken island on a jet ski? I picked the wrong dialogue option and now captain svana is mad at me. I might have to reload from a backup save.

Is that why you're 80lbs over burdened with dozens of intestines and mushrooms? Because you really need all of it to craft? Or is it because you can't control yourself to just take what will actually be useful to you?

even 18 perception, goggles, and paranoia, does not detect them reliably

you are intended to die to detect their presence in that area, then reload and spaz out throwing flares everywhere

they're both very OP, even for psi skills

no, something about currents being too strong or some shit

That shitty meme came into existance like a couple years ago. It was only until a single autist on Yea Forums started spamming it every time someone posted a picture of a butt, and then autists like you perpetuated it.

remains wont despawn unless you loot them and dropped items dont despawn either.
There is no way to get rid of trash in this game so you must loot it all to keep everything nice and clean

test

you need stealth to detect them before they attack you; you'd need maxed, optimized detection to hit their auto-detect threshold (I don't know what it is, but I know you can get over 1000 now)

ah so you're just retarded in a different way

just you wait until I invent intestine and mushroom based armor

no i'm a certified knifefag and i REFUSE to get inside the tin can

t. has never played psi
They're basic lose-less mechanics that you only pop when you're fucked either way. At best they save you a reload.

everytime you take a nasty shit and it reeks just know that's what brap posters like to smell

>standard behavior
friend, videogames are made for hyperautists and sufferers of immense compulsive disorders.
designing a game not catering to these afflictions is bad design

Why yes, I am a tin can wearer, how'd you know?

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the fuck are you talking about CC in this game is a way of safely pressing spacebar so you could get a new turn and more action points
forcefield and stasis accomplish this splendidly

Or you can proactively use shit like Stasis to remove a dangerous enemy while you murk the weaker ones.

>its not overpowered you just have to reload less!!

ive played full psi up to lvl 18
temp manip machete up to lvl 25 once, and lvl 30 a 2nd time
plus many other characters up to lvl 8 or so
all on dominating

It sounds to me like you don't have a head for tactics, which is probably why you think psi isn't OP.

wearing the tin can is just giving up on playing proper underrail
without stealth and movement points you can't even enjoy the combat

>temp manip machete
give

>you may as well go pure psi
That's just silly though as you're operating under an MMO-esque mindset where the only thing even worth considering is whatever the strongest meta option is.
And no one has yet to explain why there needs to be a clear division between psi builds and non-psi builds. It's just another tool that you can add as you said. I don't get the sheer obsession that so many people to have with playing a pure build when all it offers over a hybrid is trading versatility and options to free up a bit more for specialization.
Underrail is filled with many extremely powerful things that have even less investments or requirements than TM, but you never see anyone demanding that gas grenades, crawler dipped caltrops, flash bangs, or any other encounter destroyers be locked behind heavy stats or skill dips. It's just unending rage over how much versatility psi offers like that purple bar raped their mother.

>man tells you he killed the rathound king and gives you his head
>you drop to your knees and thank the lord for sending this angel in mortal form
>declare him as one of you, part of your society, for he has saved your people from annihilation
>he puts on the rathound king's clothes
>shoot him dead

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That's called a lose-less mechanic. They will not help you actually win fights.
You're better off attacking that enemy or just CCing it and everything around it with LoC as pure psi. Stasis isn't really useful aside from not dying for a few turns.
>no argument
>ur dum
Yeah nah fuck off cunt, I never had to pop that shit in any fight I was winning.

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AoE and CC are nothing more than methods of dealing with enemies. It's pointless to mention that ARs and snipers lack them, especially when AR's have burst.

Hey I have even more stupid questions.
Do you guys playing psi monk or general unarmed run it with stealth? Also, should I pick up an additional psi school or just stick to psychokinesis?

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>operating under an MMO-esque mindset where the only thing even worth considering is whatever the strongest meta option is.
explain to me why this is correct in an mmo and not correct in a non mmo, as i feel you have jumped to some conclusions.

can i repair the allied turrets+naga protector on the expedition beach or nah?

>being too autistic to have fun
>can't bring himself to play a sub-optimal character without breaking down into fits of autistic rage

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Bursting ARs for AoE is unreliable and even moreso depending on what kind of rifle you have. You can pick off a couple spawn or maybe one or two dudes on the verge of death with it, or you can "miss" and all your shots will hit your target instead of spreading out.

yes

>level 30
it's shit

>Force Field
>Stasis
>"That's called a lose-less mechanic. They will not help you actually win fights."
Gas grenades? Enrage? Chokepoints? The numerous item and ability cooldowns?

Look at this man. Look at him and laugh.

>I never had to pop that shit in any fight I was winning.
with a psi build, that's entirely believeable
you can easily win without using half the options

Because an MMO is competitive multiplayer environment where you are pushed to do whatever is the best at all times since you will be competing against and cooperating with other players constantly.
Underrail is a single player crpg that's centered around build experimentation and exploring a large world.

Be honest: have you ever used an assault rifle?

fun, in a game, is discovering and enjoying mastery of that game. In a game where you build characters, mastering it is optimizing the character.
Thus, in underrail, a game which is heavily based around constructing a character build, mastering underrail involves building an optimal character, and therefore having fun involves building an optimal character

I was gonna say no but how do you? I wish I knew this to repair the Naga Brotector.

honestly don't remember how I did it
something to do with hacking I think

Shotgun Psi needs only kneecap, fragmented chaos and the crit damage perk right? Barrel Stare does not seem useful and Leading Shot looks useless with how pellets work and the accuracy cap anyway. Sixth Shell looks strong tho.

Nah you could totally look at it in the completely opposite way. Mastery should come from completing difficult combat encounters with unorthodox or outright shit builds.
It's also the best way to determine which tools are completely out of whack compared to everything else.

Optimizing a character doesn't necessitate playing whatever the absolute strongest solution is. It means taking a concept and pushing it to their absolute limit. If pure psi existing ruins any idea you have of playing anything else, then you surely have crippling autism and should likely be on some form of medication.

don't forget
>most elemental/mental damage, rarely resisted
>non-damaging effects only resisted by fortitude/resolve, often unsuccessfully, if they can be resisted at all

>Gas grenades
Never used them, didn't need to. Might benefit from force field, but why not just use non-DoT? Seems stupid.
>Enrage
Doesn't even remotely require use of force field. LoC-enraging a group will CC everything in your vision range for several turns.
>Chokepoints
Why would I block these when I can light myself on fire, run through them, then shoot shit back at the fuckers on the other side?
>The numerous item and ability cooldowns
On pure psi you are nearly never out of options.
FF and Stasis are lose-less mechanics. They do not help you win fights. Frankly FF should be remade because it's equally shit and janky. Would work better as an extra shield layer or something.

>Never used them, didn't need to. Might benefit from force field, but why not just use non-DoT? Seems stupid.
lol

>fatal throw + ripper
im basically ending fights in one turn now. a single grenade and then a couple throwing knives fucks up anyone's day.

you have described what you are doing in both games, but have not justified why intense optimization is correct to do in one and incorrect to do in another. After all you are a person yourself, your actions are effecting you.
Lets say, for example, your justification for the MMO is that 'not doing so would be wasting the time of others'. We have now established that wasting time is undesirable, very well. Why is wasting your own time not undesirable, when wasting the time of others is?

The way one becomes good at a competitive game is by competing with themselves, not others. The most competitive player doesnt give a damn about the others, they are trying to get ever better. Thus the players who are good in an mmo, are players who are going to be trying to compete against themselves no matter what they do. For trying to coax competitiveness out of a noncompetitive person will only result in disatisfaction.

So ultimately for competitive optimization to be correct to do in an mmo, it is also correct to do in any other game, unless your idea of competitive is simply copying what the competitive people have discovered in their optimization, but that would not make you competitive as you still wouldn't have the drive to master it.
This would also place you in a position where you are condemning the natural play style of the people who you look to in mmos to tell you what to do as being fundamentally incorrect.

Alright lads how do I finish this?

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>Might benefit from force field, but why not just use non-DoT? Seems stupid.

Toxic nades stack contaminate on things for every turn something is in the gas, and maybe for every tile someone runs through, which increases all damage taken by up to 200%. It's part of why war crimes are so heavily recommended. Caltrops/traps, gas nades and molotovs kill everything good and only requires like one or two turns of setup.

>let me just use this gas grenade when I could use a frag Mk.V, HE Mk.V, EMP, etc
Seriously, why? For traps I can see it but for grenades it's stupid.

have you considered that a game is more than a mathematical formula to be cracked for purely intellectual pleasure
there is an element of fantasy and role-play in crpg which contexualizes your build optimization. you don't try to optimize your character for the sake of achieving some abstract "mastery" over the game, you do it because you want to be strong and fast which are particular attributes

how the heck do i skill this levels 1-20

Alright, I didn't make huge use of traps but I'll take your word for it about the synergy with contamination. Why are people complaining that psi is overpowered then? It sounds like this shit is equally busted, especially if you combined it with stealth so you could set it up correctly even in hostile zones. Hell, that probably would have made some of the absolute worst fights on my psi build a cakewalk.

>completing difficult combat encounters with unorthodox
trying things that are not meta is a way to find new metas, it is a thing people will do with the intention of understanding the game better, which is part of constructing a better build. The suboptimal builds themselves are only valid within this context.

>It means taking a concept and pushing it to their absolute limit
Indeed, which has been my complaint all along.
If you are to throw out a character concept, inevitably as you try to optimize it you will come to the realization that taking temporal manipulation is worth the hitpoint trade off.

Its not pure psi im complaining about, pure psi can be the strongest build if other character concepts have different optimization paths. But now every build becomes a psi build, and once you are a hybrid you have already sacrificed the hitpoints, and it becomes more and more optimal to take more and more psi abilities.

you can safely ignore crafting for quite a while

And this is why the people that link to level 30 builds are retarded.

I'm so close
I'm doing everything in my power to try to make sure these two death stalkers kill everything

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just all the memes you can think of, anything anyone ever complained about or bragged about for either build and framed in a negative way for the virgin and in a positive way for the chad

>doesn't even need MP
>throws nades at own feet, kills everyone in a 5 mile radius
>fires 90 rounds in a single turn
>impenetrable metal armor blocks all damage

>fell for the meme, got cutthroat
>hides in the shadows because he's embarrassed of his tiny knife
>spams crippling strike, dies anyway
>puts points into evasion, gets blown up and shot anyway

Shit like that.

theres one that already exists, but I dont have it

currently the highest bodycount i achieved with them

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>have you considered that a game is more than a mathematical formula to be cracked for purely intellectual pleasure
Thats what a game is

and "mastery" of the game anyhow doesn't come from figuring out the best single build. it's about experiencing it with enough builds and different ways to overcome downsides in a run.
i'd rather take advice from someone who has played both great and shitty builds for hundreds of hours, than take advice from someone who has only played the most optimal build.

but what if your character concept is some paranoid shotgun hobo that's afraid of taking the psi pill because he doesn't trust doctors or a burly tin can sledgehammer that wants to smash the heretics

Do you even read what you write? So your whole argument boils down to "these two overpowered spells that literally every single build benefits from aren't overpowered because I have even more overpowered spells in my arsenal"?

I mean we already know that you're a complete moron since you scoffed off those spells that "at most save you a reload" and literally prevent you from dying as "non-arguments", but alright.

this but needs
>has never seen a move point in his entire life
for tin can

?

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Then you get upset that you have been shoehorned away from these nonviable builds due to game imbalance.

throw in something about classic and oddity
that'll trigger people

Virgin
>wastes 20 whole skill points per level minmaxing damage he never needs
>3 CON
>can't function without constant injections of psi boosters
>is more like a beetle than a man
>spits in the face of God and mankind's history
>can't spot a landmine until he steps on it
>probably some kind of anarchist
>is inbred
Chad
>Covered in metal, mankind's oldest friend
>has literally never heard of psychic powers
>whole body workout from carrying literal tons of ammo
>can only fire full auto
>fascist aesthetic, universally praised
>civilizes the barbaric south with nothing but blood and sweat

To be fair the only way someone should discover optimal shit is by playing for hundreds of hours anyway.
Then again it doesn't take a genius to see that TM is obviously out of whack with everything else.

>>fell for the meme, got cutthroat
FUCK YOU
HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW THERE'S SO MANY CRAWLERS AND ROBOTS IN THIS FUCKED GAMAE

Because properly setting it up so guys don't just run past it, or hitting yourself with it, requires points and feat investments, the grenades need to be crafted, and isn't feasible to do for every encounter because of the setup and scarcity of toxic grenades.

The only thing in TM that is fucked is contraction, which could be easily fixed by having it need to scale to where it is now instead of just being fully effective at 55 TM skill. The rest is pretty much fine.

TM was literally made for hybrids.

You spend half the game wandering caves and the very first hour of the game shows you that caves are mostly populated by horrible monsters.

That's pretty much exactly the same as psi except for the scarcity. You need to know what to use and when so you don't instantly explode from a single 5mm bullet breezing past you, and some encounters are just bad matchups. All I'm hearing is that psi is easier to play optimally than other builds.

but this feat exists
why styg WH

no, it had a virgin psi with a stealthy leather overcoat, breathing mask, ninja tabis, bulletstrap belt, and jackknife

and a spiked tincan, balors hammer, yell feat chad

that isn't all that makes cutthroat shit, though it's part of it
it's the absurd amount of requirements
in order to use the feat you must:
>be behind them
>in stealth, undetected
>they must be not only organic, but human

TM was made for hybrids but in practice it's made for every single build in the game because the pill's costs are ridiculously low when compared to the returns. There's never a reason to not take TM regardless of what kind of build you're rolling. That's what the anons were arguing.

Universal cooldown reduction for a pittance of action points, with a low cooldown itself, and available within the first hour of the game is a huge part of why TM is busted.

So does snooping.

The Virgin Hobo Knifer
>Played with knives as a kid, wasn't hugged by his parents and was ostracized by society, avoids social contact
>Has to hide from his opponents
>INCAPACITATE
>Maxes dodge and evasion, gets hit and blown up anyway. Infused Leather makes him look like a fag in a gay bar
>When all else fails, flashbangs like a pussy to re-enter stealth

The Chad Tin Can
>Loved by everyone who laid eyes on him since the moment he was born
>Charges in to deal with his opponents without thought or concern
>THICK SKULL
>Just tanks all damage with his massive health pool and pristine SUPER STEEL ARMOR
>When all else fails, just throws grenades at his feet

but both of those builds are viable at the hardest difficulty
why do you refuse you extract pleasure from character concepts that don't mesh with psi
don't you think taking psi every game feels samey and repetitive

Gas nades have an independent CD from standard nade pools

Needs something about how the virgin hoards to save every penny while the chad literally burns his money.

What's the problem? It's an RPG, did your autism prevent you from playing anything but Berserker-Wizard in BG2?

PSI being strong works for the lore, if you don't want powers, keep the extra HP. Who cares about balance in a single player game?

Hit a brick wall in my first save, so I've started a new game. Going punchy punchy.
Few questions though. Do gloves count as unarmed?
Also, why is my health regening from time to time? I have no items with regen on them, and no feats that do such a thing. Is it just something that happens when you're close to full health anyway?

Forgot
Tin Can
>Maxes intimidation so he can yell his opponents into submission

>Universal cooldown reduction for a pittance of action points
Oh cry some more, it's one turn and the skill itself has a cooldown so you can't spam it. Not even half as useful as getting cryokinesis at ZERO skill with huge range and solid damage. Hell, you could invest those 25 skill points into something non-psi, not take the pill, and be just as well off. You're just nitpicking for the sake of it.

make limited temporal increment only work on psi skills

make contraction:
last only a single turn
have a 2 turn cooldown
cost all your remaining AP to cast and convert those into movement points
and give you 15 ap that can only be used on a single skill (so you get to use one 15ap or less skill then any remaining ap vanish)

Health regens when above 90%.

if you only took a little bit of damage the game treats it as a scrach and it will regenerate on its own
probably to prevent you from wasting a healing consumable to satisfy your autism

Fuck off that makes it useless, leave Haste alone.

above 85%

>Hell, you could invest those 25 skill points into something non-psi, not take the pill, and be just as well off.
That's complete horseshit and you know it.

Cool thanks. I really like that feature. It's such an annoying thing in so many games.

But why stop there, why have any sort of gameplay balance in the first place? Fuck patches and updates.

>make limited temporal increment only work on psi skills
Doesn't fit the lore at all. Would be better to just give it a much higher psi cost like contraction.
>make contraction literally worthless
No. That's stupid as fuck. Make it scale from 50% of its current effectiveness at 55 skill to 100% at 200 effective skill. That way it can't be minmaxed so easily on hybrids.
>b-b-but you still get free AP
Whatever.

Literally no one would take TM then. If you want to do some dumb blanket pass, them make TM require 5 will or something

fist weapons are counted as weapons for most feats, basically just read the descriptions before picking anything. improved unarmed combat for instance requires no weapons at all, so that's out for gloves.

>Hell, you could invest those 25 skill points into something non-psi, not take the pill, and be just as well off.
Are we playing the same game?

you can savescum and probably beat dominating with out taking a single weapon or psi skill but its ridiculous to imply that would be a good idea. When you are using the definition of viable as 'possible at all' to say something is viable is not an argument

Yes, taking psi every game is terrible AND THATS WHY IM COMPLAINING

>put 25 points into stealth
>quite sneaky for early game
>put 25 points into guns
>accuracy oges up by quite a bit
>put 25 points into throwing
>stop missing early nade throws
>put 25 points into a crafting skill
>benefit is obvious
I could go on. You're autistically focusing on one thing that you don't like and not looking at the wider implications.

>I can't stop myself from doing things I don't like or want to do
That's called a mental disorder. Get help.

No, it's too good as it is but most ideas on scaling it back are retarded.
It'd be better off if it acted identically to adrenaline shot.

How about liking new content without screeching like John Sawyer at the sight of a see-saw? Why not bitch about shotguns or the new actually useful uniques like the Tesla Suit which has no STR requirement?

Josh Sawyer I meant.

None of those compare to using Aimed Shot, throwing grenades, popping a hypo, or casting whatever psi skill more often.
Those 25 points in stealth or whatever aren't going to make a big difference 5 levels later. Universal cooldown reduction is going to make an even bigger impact as the game goes on.

but using non psi weapons is not just viable on the weakest sense of the word where pure stealth is viable. it's also strong and fun and you get to enjoy a different character concept and kill things in direct combat
given that they're viable in this strong sense of viable, why do you refuse to use them because they're not strictly optimal?

pick pocket is unnecessary; I only took it at high levels to grab a few oddities without conflict

craft a taser, then ignore crafting until after depot A or so
by then dodge/lockpicking/psychokinesis are out of the way and throwing/stealth/traps are close

>that makes it useless
Not at all. It lets you use a single 15ap skill every other turn. This could be a flashbang, or a shot with a pistol, an attack with a knife. Many options
Some builds can benefit from this, many can not. Of the builds that can benefit from it, many have to consider whether it is worth taking the hitpoint loss and skill points to get it or not. Meanwhile other builds, such as already psy heavy builds, will get it by default and get use out of it. Its now nice and balanced, there are builds that just dont want it at all, builds that might want it and might not want it, builds that want it, and builds that have it anyway so they will use it.

>find cave room with bone piles on the floor
>deploy anti-crawler circle

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I can stop myself just fine. Even now im not doing those things, instead of doing them i am here complaining about how terribly designed and balanced elements of this game are.

For SEVENTY FIVE fucking psi you dipshit. Your "idea" if you can even call it that makes it a worthless skill for anyone building a psi build that uses any skill besides contraction. You are a black as tar retard gorilla nigger if you think what you've suggested is anything besides nerfing that skill into uselessness.

Shut up autist

When I show Styg your language he's going to implement my ideas just to spite you.

You know, I never realized the Tesla Armor didn't have a strength requirement.

optimization is the only thing we have to guide us. if you say you can get a little weaker and its fine, how many times can you say this about one thing in relation to another before its not fine?
There is no point in discussing subjectivity. If ones positions is that you can just do what ever as long as your feelings comply to it then there is no hope of anyone ever establishing a base reference point to even bother discussing of builds at all.
If one then starts to discuss builds, they must already have entered the agreement that there is some objective basis to discuss them around. The only quantifiable measure we have of such things is how effective they are at the game, and therefore the only way to actually discuss builds is in relation to how strong they are, as that is measurable.

You took two support abilties that were supposed to be attractive for hybrids and turned them some jank ass mess that is barely useful anyone. Yeah man, totally gonna wanna take the psi pill, drop 55 skill points, and use most of my psi bar for this.

Fuck off back to deadfire.

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Styg loves the PSI master race, if anything he will buff it.

Yeah alright tranny, go dilate yourself back to discord where you can shitpost your ideas at a slavic dev who wants you hanging from a lamp post.

What the fuck else are you going to use your psi on as a hybrid?

All these dumb fucking faggots bitching about TM when you could just not fucking use it if it's such a fucking problem. Fucking no enemies use it against you so who gives a shit if it's broken.

What else should I change visually?

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You mean
>put 25 points into stealth
>useless later on unless you keep leveling it up
>put 25 points into guns
>useless later on unless you keep leveling it up
>put 25 points into throwing
>slightly less useless later on unless you keep leveling it up
>put 25 later on into a crafting skill
>useless later on unless you keep leveling it up

Temporal Manipulation
>global cooldown reduction at 25, always useful for all builds and stacks with everything without need to ever level up the skill further
>bonus AP and MP for several at 55, always useful for all builds and stacks with everything without need to ever level up the skill further

Bre, if you see these as equivalent investments, I don't know what to tell you.

There are plenty of useful skills in the game that cost 15 or less ap

It would also function as a very good escape skill giving you 50 or more movement points on a turn you did not want to take any actions on.

Consider, with this skill you could instantly get 50 movement points to get in range of a flashbang, throw the flashbang, and start your turn as normal.
Very useful.
Also perhaps a bear trap if you invest in the AP lowering of quick tinker. Many options here.

>Fucking no enemies use it against you so who gives a shit if it's broken
I actually like TM but this is a problem. There should be enemies with it. They should be rare, but they need to exist.

Thank you. That's what I was thinking, but just wanted to be sure. The only fist related feat I have taken so far is dirty kick, and that still seems to be pretty solid regardless. Gotta say though, it is helping out a ton. It's trivializing some of the stalker ambushes in the early game. Granted it's my second playthrough, so I know what I'm doing a little better than before, but even so.

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I can tell you for sure that it won't be on psi reverse blitz

I disagree. Only because actually dealing with such enemies with how TM and Psi works in general would be fucking AIDS.

Based

>acting like you're only investing 25 points over the whole playthrough to make psi look better than it is
You can bitch all you want about TM but that's disingenuous.

Select everything starting from the top left to the bottom right and press delete.

there uh...is a limit to how many locusts can spawn from a single hive, yes?
please say yes.

>if you dont like it just dont use it :^)
this argument has never, once, in the entire history of the fucking universe, been valid about anything

Oh now you don't want the game to be hard, but you want psi nerfed because it makes it too easy right? Alright, sure.

being able to objectively beat the game at the hardest difficulty mode without excessive use of reloading saves is the base reference point for build viability
the point is to optimize within the restraint of your character idea. you could take 2 levels of wizard 1 fighter level 2 rouge levels and 7 monk levels too but then you're optimizing for a metagame not for a character concept. doing this is fine and will result in stupid memery but you obviously don't want to do this so why act like you do?

That's never been a proper argument, especially when there's a precedent for scaling back OP shit.
TM is by far the most powerful thing in the game, and it's entirely because of two out of whack spells.

TM is a more pressing matter as it homogenizes builds due to it benefiting every character. That's not to say balance regarding things you mentioned doesn't matter, it's just that TM is so ridiculously powerful there's never a reason not to take it.

put some kind of drug in the virgin's left hand. something that's a total crutch

Uhh everything in Psychokinetics?

Alright guys I figured it out.
LTI only applies to skills that have a base cooldown of 5 turns or more.

Not it is absolutely fucking not are you fucking mad? PTC isn't even as useful as molotovs much less the absolute god skill that is LoC

shut up autist

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Only has 3 good abilities for hybrids.

>chad ever using something tactical like a flashbang
he should be dropping armor piercing HE grenades at his feet

In a properly balanced game peak optimization would align with sensible character concepts and archetypes.
Any time a game tries to pressure you away from character concepts by having them be suboptimal it is a sign that the games character progression is badly designed.

>doing my first tin can build
>going for guns
>can't decide if i want grenadier or sprint
help

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>viability
VIABILITY IS NOT THE SAME THING AS OPTIMAL AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

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>time magic randomly doesn't affect certain shit
Just make it actually cost AP holy shit. Make it cost 25AP to cast and it's fine. You get a turn for half a turn once every 3 turns. Easy.

add food
chad eats junkyard surprise
virgin eats eel burger

PSI hybrids have always been strong, contain your autism.

Alright autists, lets bring this to a close shall we?
TM is overpowered as fuck for hybrid builds.
And that's fine.
Not everything has to be perfectly balanced. I mean just look at Pillars of Eternity. It's the most boring, uninspired slog fest I had to endure. There's no flavor, no variety, every class feels bland and samey.
Now look at Morrowind or Arcanum. Games that allow you to break them are the ones that remain classics.
Not because it's easy or overpowered, but because using game mechanics to your advantage is fun.
Instead of being subjected to them like in Pillars.
Now shut the fuck up about TM already.

Is Mercantile worth it?

Very much so. You need it unless you want gear based on the whims of RNG.

Grenadier will help you murder things. Sprint just helps you move around.

Sprint if you are going shotgun
Grenadier if you are going AR or Sniper

All more useful than that Sawyer-tier neutered garbage

If you're gonna craft your gear it makes it easier to find high quality components in shops, so yes.
But it's not crucial, and you should only get it if you've got some skill points to throw around.

time magic is good purely to save on rage for builds that don't attack very many times in a turn.
if you have only two shots and you whiff both of them you're gonna be steaming mad, so having that one extra shot can ease the butthurt.

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i would agree if "properly balanced game" was changed to "perfectly balanced game"
as long as the price you pay for maintaining character coherence isn't too jarring to the point where it's just a farce then you can enjoy multiple character concepts. underrail is a good game and it's a shame not to play it for such reasons

>You need it
It's nice to have, but you don't NEED it.

You missed the point. None of the best TM abilities scale with anything, you just need to meet the bare minimal breaking points to be able to cast them. You can stop leveling up TM at 55 or possibly at 70 and never level up the skill again since you've already unlocked the most powerful set of abilities it has to offer. Compare that to pretty much any skill, hell even other psi schools, that require the player to keep investing points into them so they can be and *stay* effective.

How hard is hard compared to normal? The wiki doesn't explain the difficulty changes in much detail.

not very
dominating is where the big gap is

hypos heal half the amount on you. enemies have more health. stuff you sell goes for half the amount. more enemies and sometimes bigger versions where there were previously normal ones.

as someone who's played a fair bit of the game, i'd say it's tough but not yet the bullshit dominating throws at you. a good build can still plow through most of it. depot a is absolute ass though.

>have 40 early-game Merc skill
>sell lucas one shotgun
>he trades it for 7 frag grenades, 4 mines, 3 blueprints, and 400 SGS credits
i'd say it's pretty good.

TM scales with feats and in the case of Contraction, your character.

>TM is overpowered as fuck for hybrid builds.
To the point that it makes hybrid builds as a build catagory so amazingly past every other kind of build if you were to select from say, 'top 10 builds', they would all have it.
>And that's fine.
no
>Not everything has to be perfectly balanced.
Perfect balance should be attempted, but realistically of course its not obtainable. This does not mean you should just ignore balance entirely, or give up trying to balance, only that you must accept that your task of balancing will never be finished.
>Pillars of Eternity
Its just a shitty game
>Morrowind
Has a single build; max everything. The only variation is how you go about doing this, but the optimal way to play sees very little combat before you have completed it.
>Arcanum
In arcanum, magic is horribly overpowered compared to tech, but, importantly, the two are NOT COMPATIBLE. Thus, you can play tech and optimize tech within the scope of tech, it is impossible to effectively add the overpowered magic to your tech build, it may as well be a different distinct difficulty mode. Therefore magic does not intrude on tech the way psi intrudes on all non-psi here. The existence of hybrids as a possibility means that psi needs to be balanced with non psi in a way that would not be required if you had a binary option in the matter.

The main appeal of mercantile is that it unlocks higher quality components for merchants.

you dont NEED crafting at all, but if you want to craft you should consider mercantile a crafting skill. Its also somewhat useful on its own

No I like my idea better.
Don't even bring up some retarded shit about realism or consistency.

Sure. Point being Mercantile only makes it easier to find high quality components, you can still get them without it.

TM encourages homogenization because it's so universally useful.

well that's just the starting benefits is what i put down. that transaction happened not 5 minutes ago.
but yeah also good for crafters. but even better for getting a decent jetski in expedition.

>Perfect balance should be attempted
This is where we fundamentally disagree.
Pillars is an almost perfectly balanced game. Cyphers used to be more powerful than other classes, but then they nerfed them and buffed others.
In terms of power they're all around the same level now.
That's fucking boring.

Who cares?

The game should have single persistent real time saves so that save scumming is impossible.

Which are better? Frags, or HE?
Or is this a situational decision?

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Thanks guys. I'll go with Grenadier.

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Everyone that considers build variety a selling point.

Add an even chader chad with a hammer and psi abilities

But pillars is a bad game, its not bad because of its balance, its bad because its shit.
Fundamental elements of the games combat mechanics are terrible. They are terrible while balanced, they are also terrible while not balanced. The only thing imbalance does in situations like this is let you cheese so hard you can just ignore the mechanics. This does not make them good, simply tolerable.

Nah, fuck balance I rather have fun and flavor. What if D&D high level wizards were as strong as high level fighters? Fuck that shit.

It's totally situational, dummy, look at what they say and think about how certain things might be better suited to eating a frag vs an HE.

situational
matters if tons of small hits, or lewer larger hits, is better against your target

Yes, but in general you'll want to carry more frags.

Technically frags are worse for high armor dudes
but I never end up using grenades on them anyways
also if you have a lot of targets probably like 6+ it starts to matter because there are only so many fragments

>fuck balance
Thankfully the devs don't share your belief.

Underrail has excellent build variety. It's a good game, I recommend playing it sometime.

TM also makes hybrid builds viable. Without it why would you ever go PSI?
Well okay, there's thermonuclear destabilization but that only works for ranged builds that can one shot enemies, i.e. snipers.
Apart from that, what? Force Field? There are plenty other options that allow you to keep enemies at bay without sacrificing 25% hp.
Elektrokinetic Imprint is great, but there are other ways to stun enemies at chockpoints, namely a fucking taser.
Psychotemporal Contraction is literally the only reason why 95% of hybrid builds exist.
You kill that, you kill all those builds.

There is always build variety, that doesn't mean they are all the same. Not everyone has autism putting a gun to their head forcing them to make the strongest possible build.

>Heavily Armored opponents
HE
>Lightly Armored
Fragmentation
>Robots
EMP
Hope that helps retard.

You mean the dev and PSI has always been stronger. Cope harder, autist.

>TM is another option that might be the difference between a bad build being decent
>it ruins the game
Bitch just don't pick it. And if you're physically unable to do so because you're a impulsive min-max sperg who bitches about a game so far removed from balanced it's not even in the developers dictionary then do the world a favor and neck yourself my guy.

Build variety doesn't simply mean choices in builds, there also has to be a clear power gap between builds to make them worthwhile.
Again, there's build variety in Pillars, but at the end of the day, with how much they balanced they game, they basically made build choice irrelevant.

>Hope that helps retard.
On the contrary, It actually speeds things up.

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They've always been viable. How could you even think something so fucking stupid when psimonk is one of the most discussed builds? Thermo sniper is another very popular combo. You're retarded.

>PSI hybrids have always been strong, contain your autism.
Yes, but at least pre-Expedition they required for the player to make sacrifices somewhere and keep leveling up said skills for them stay effective later on, and some of the stuff that didn't scale (Exothermic Aura for example) would only benefit certain types of hybrid builds. You could actually argue whether taking the HP malus was or wasn't worthwhile. TM on the other hand has its best skills require no stat investments whatsoever apart from the bare minimum casting requirements and their effectiveness doesn't scale with anything, same as Exothermic Aura, but the types of spells it offers are also the "general use" kind that make the school useful for literally every conceivable build in the game; having Increment and Contraction is always more preferable compared to having slightly more HP.

So it would have been a better game if it wasn't so balanced.
I'm glad we agree.
Attempts at perfect balance belong in PvP, multiplayer games. Not in single player games.
It's perfectly fine if some things are more powerful than others.

God shut the fuck up, autist.

>Hurrrrrr the game had 2 hybrid builds before
>It has more now
>That's bad I don't like it change it
Dumb fuck.

There's a big difference between "perfect balance" and toning back obviously OP shit.
I don't understand how you fags can argue that nerfing TM is unreasonable when Styg toned down similarly powerful skill (Quick Tinkering) or even specialized shit like Spear Throw.

>Hurrr every single build in the game is a TM hybrid build now'
>That's good I like it
Retard.

They were the most popular and your ignorance of them shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Dipping into psi has always been popular, but now it's ubiquitous.

Only thing I wish was different about this game was some of the animations for interacting with stuff. I hate that reloading a gun for instance is just you rolling your hands together.

In d&d a fighter would not be stronger taking 1 level of wizard, thus the fighter is the strongest fighter, and the wizard is the strongest wizard.

In this game however, the strongest fighter is also a time wizard

>TM also makes hybrid builds viable. Without it why would you ever go PSI?
>Without it why would you ever go PSI?
Dumb motioner.

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>trying to kill some guy
>miss all my shots even though maxed perception and 91% hit chance
>"You suck!"
>"I can't believe you're so incompetent."
>"You missed, loser!"
bros..

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virgin should wear flipflops

>why did Styg nerf this skill that let me throw the equivalent of a fucking sniper round at someone on a melee build that's has a strong focus on defense
Gee man, I don't know.

Aegis Or Pirates?
Also how many of these high mechanical fuckers like Crabs and Strongman am I gonna meet because I barely deal any damage with Combat Gloves.
Am I gonna need to get Versatility and use guns for this?

There were more reasons to go psi before TM than there are reasons to not go psi now

Assuming I can only invest in 2 of the Psi skills which two would be the best for a mixed build?

Dipping has been part of D&D meta for fucking decades.

>missing
non psi builds are traps, i hope you learned your lesson

>full auto muzzle brake burst on some idiot
>miss a single round
>tells me I suck right before the last rounds kill him

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Aegis for the taste of civilized northern life and tablet computers.

you can turn off taunts in the options

I read that the pirates basically betray you anyway but I don't know if that's true. I haven't done the expansion yet.

temporal and mind control

wtf did styg nuke spear throw
does it no longer oneshot everything

>dodge this!
>uses burst fire on me
>misses every shot
Why yes, I did get this trench coat from the Matrix, how did you know?

Pathfinder is not d&d, strongest builds in d&d have always been pure or pure+prestiege class. Multi classing tends to get more versatility but less power.

But user haven't you heard? The only thing that matters is fun! Fuck balance!

>references D&D
>convenient forgets that in more than 1 edition shit like Clerics were better Fighters than Fighters
>multi classing have always had great potential to be broken as shit
>that D&D is a multiplayer game while Underrail is singleplayer
>that ultimately the balance of D&D is up to the discretion of the DM and that the rulebook is ultimately a suggestion and guidance tool

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Mercantile doesn't affect sell or buy prices for items.

gramps, this hasn't been true for like 4 editions now

>Clerics were better Fighters than Fighters
Sure, but cleric+fighter was worse than both of them.
Also for the cleric to be a better fighter than the fighter it had to use buffs which it had in limited supply.

>make claims about balance in d&d
>backtrack saying its relative to the DM and doesnt relaly matter since its a different kind of game anyway

>is now literally arguing the opposite of his original point
Time out corner mister autist, count to ten and breathe deeply.

They were the most popular because they were the most powerful.
Everything else was behind by quite a margin.
So yes, those were the only 2 builds as far as I'm concerned.

i'm just so tired of fighting one brazillion locusts

expose weakness and versatility on shotgun

Mandatory.
Once you reach peak Mercantile you get access to special goods at various vendors. It saves you a LOT of time from locker diving and hoping that one will have that a piece of high quality crafting material.

what is the most FUN build you cna recommend?

Pretty sure it was nerfed because Spear Throw was supposed to be a core aspect of your tanky hoplite archetype yet was comparable to a sniper.

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Okay I redid the Virgin.

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my point has been consistent this entire thread.
The problem with TM is that it makes everyone a hybrid.
Balance overall can be imperfect as long as the character concept has an optimization path that takes you into its own direction within the games skill system.
With TM however, every concept leads you towards taking TM, unless your concept very specifically specifies 'and no TM!', which is not a real concept, because its reactive to the games mechanics. It would be like saying "my character concept is a trapper who does not use bear traps"

weird way to say reroll

>thinking someone pointing out the most obvious fucking detail about D&D that you apparently missed is "backtracking"
Yike

but 50% mechanical threshold reduction

Psi monk is powerful sure but you're only digging the whole deeper by suggesting that psi sniper is super powerful.

marvelous
trips confirm

>springshoes
Nice

kek the chosen one

If you make a balance statement about d&d then you are obviously talking about the game as its written because if you start factoring in house rules then there is no way to discuss balance because it could be literally anything the DM decides.

when will I need 12 will to get all the checks? can I wait until I get the +2 base point feat?

Pure psi with just enough strength and guns to use a sniper rifle with aimed shot is retardedly powerful. Entropic recurrence combined with aimed shot can take down nearly anything in the game.

A DM vetoing an OP character has nothing to do with house rules.

what are you doing where you have 10 will?
A psi caster would have more than 10 will, nobody else would have anywhere near 10 will

PSI sniper was my first build, before Expedition, it was super fucking powerful.
Sneak, find groups of enemies, thermonuclear destabilization someone, aimed shot him = everyone's dead.
It was ridiculously easy.

>Locus of Control

I argued both points. By the book D&D isn't balanced and if you consider DM house rules the game isn't also balanced. Which is a counter argument to your "D&D did class balance right" argument. And that's glossing over all the other key details about D&D that seperate it from Underrail.

Go cite someone claiming that prior to the expansion.
>Entropic recurrence
Holy shit you are fucking retarded.

You are resorting to pulling a fictional DM out of your ass so he can pull a fictional modified rule out of his own fictional ass. You are doing this in a discussion about balance in d&d you started, in the context of crpgs no less.

>that anything with heavy Psi isn't good
>that sniper basically lets you erase bosses while Psi mops up the trash
Sounds like an insanely good and easy build to pull off.

D&D did build optimization right. The complaint against TM is how it screws over build optimization.

>if it's the expansion suddenly it doesn't count
kys yourself

Are you trying to suggest a PSI sniper wasn't really good in the base game, you absolute motioner?

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