Doesn't have awful input lag

Yeah, because in every other fighting game the character diversity is so great.

It’s just a weak story. Very generic, none of the characters are memorable, and it’s pretty directionless. The back story was more interesting. Also there is this weird form of sexism in the writing where every evil or crazy character is male and there is only one good man.

uuuh

Its a lot more than 6 characters that repeatedly dominate majors for a decade jimmy
Stop being a close minded nigger and accept a little criticism

>this false flag again
You can enjoy more than one game faggot

I can smell this post from here.

name literally 1 game that has more than 6 top tier viable characters fucking pretender

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NBA 2K20

It's more like 90 percent.

still isnt as fun

What is wrong with smash players

but in that game I cANT PLAY GOOBERMAN!
GOOBERMAN IS MY FAVORITE SSMASHER!
I CAN'T HAVE GOOBERMAN USE HIS FINAL SMASSH NOOOOOOOOOOOO

Tekken 7

>tfw you can't use the shower because it's a banned stage

this but unironically. can't wait for the shit people are gonna pump out on the workshop. hopefully legit good characters and not fursonas.

UNIST

Just like any video game or nerdy hobby it attracts the biggest degenerates. See: MTG, Warhammer, etc. Pretty much any competition for games is full of them.

It's more fun if you're competitive, I love playing Ultimate as well but nothing compares to pulling off slick movement in Melee. It's a lot of fun!

Get ready for a ton of Smash ports.

I'll give you the input lag, I dunno why the fuck they did that, some say it's an issue with the Switch itself but I doubt it? Fuck if I know, it's still awful. Ultimate has combos but the weird thing is that the difficulty or consistency for them depends on the character. Ike is unga bunga swing sword auto combos, but Falcon in ultimate needs tight execution. Why? Fuck if I know.

Aerial momentum is Sakurai's weakness. He hates it and it will never come back, not the game's fault. As for the online yeah, Japan can't into online. Ultimate is still good, don't be a fucking faggot fanatic. I love Melee but these threads are tiring at this point.

youtube.com/watch?v=JpOaQxrsaqI&t=0s
God I love the movement in this game

>Worst gameplay of the series
>no stage variation in competitive
>3 viable characters
How do you make a game worse than smash 64?

gg xrd
Johnny,Sin,Raven,Kyo,Elphel,Faust
skullgirls
pretty much all of them
Budokai 3
Piccolo Shenron,Goku, vegeta,Daura,Bardock,Cell

Why do people that have obviously never played the game complain about it so much? Usually Yea Forums is contrarian as fuck about new games, are you all literal zoomers that were born after it came out? Is it too hard for you? Just because your favorite streamer and some retards on reddit hate it doesn't mean you should.

Things I like about Melee
>Big combos
>Falco (because he has big combos)
>Movement like you're on ice
>The graphics, best of the series
>The music
>The opening cinematic
>Hitstun
>Physics

Things I do on a daily basis
>Shower
>Apply deoderant
>Brush teeth
>Do laundry and wear clean clothes

youtube.com/watch?v=sfQ75gr2znA
>The opening cinematic
It's incredible, even if you vehemently hate Melee you can't deny it

Ultra Street fighter 4 had 15 regularly top placing characters all at major tournaments instead of fox/falco/marth/shiek with jigglypuff and icieshits on fucking loop
There isn't a single top player that doesn't play any one of these fucking characters with tourney archives of the same 4 matchups

You talking about Brawl? Yeah that game is shit.

im okay with that as long as the sprites are in style and aren't ripped from like SSF2 or some shit.
moonwalking is the cleanest shit ever goddamn

>stale solved game.
Ultimate is a lot more fun, competitively and casually.
Also pretty much every top player seems to have their own character that they specialize in so matches are a lot more personal and interesting to spectate.

>Smash Ultimate
>Pokemon Stage, Pokemon Stage 2.0, Battlefield, Animal Crossing stage again
Lmao nice variety you got there

I don't like any of the fucking characters.
I'll never fucking play melee because the roster is FUCKING AWFUL.

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Proportionally Melee and USFIV have the same amount of viable characters. USFIV had around 44 characters if I remember correctly. Melee has about 26. About 10 of the 26 Melee characters are viable at the top level while you claim 15 of the 44 USFIV characters are viable.

more like smellee

>combos
>tilt,fair,nair,fair,fair,bair for every charter
Sss-SIIIIIIICCKKK!!!

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Yes

>Other Smash Fags calling Melee Fags Smelly
>They're also smell like shit
Don't think you're safe just because this a Melee shill thread.

youtube.com/watch?v=U6gphiBkpnw

vs

youtube.com/watch?v=b7tGGH_i6Ek
This is just one player/character too, Melee has actual confirms

hail to the stink

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>Smash
Play a real fighting game

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Ultimate is the most competitive fighting game there is currently, based on the sheer amount of players alone. Great job competing against 100 players in Tekken, kek.

>Ultimate
>fighting game

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They're fighting. In a game.

The smash series is divided into fighting and party games
>Unintentionally Deep Fighting Games
Melee beta AKA Smash 64
Melee
Sakurai then got so pissed off that he turned smash from a fighting game into a party game
>Party Games
Brawl
Sm4sh
Ultimate

Why the fuck does he hate competitive games so much? Was he abused as a child by a competitive game player or what?

Yes, I was his abuser.
You're welcome btw.

But also an absurd skill climb

>The smash series is divided into party and more party games
Fixed

Have shower, smelly.

There's people like Zain who watched the documentary and became a top player in 2 years, but that's extremely hard to do. It's insane the skillcap this game has.

>478618814
It's ignorant to compare Smash 64 and Melee to the rest of the series due to how radically different they are.

>Smash Ultimate has worse online and stage variety than Melee
How does this happen? Why are the Japanese so fucking shit at netcode?

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Sure you can, Smash is a party game series

>Worst gameplay
This is some tempting bait. I wish you luck.

>Player count makes it competitive
Smash is a real fighting game, but your argument is dogshit.

Sakurai is a hack and a japanese faggot.

Sakurai is a hack.

I was playing vidya when you were still swimming in daddy's nutsack kiddo, try again. Melee is the worst game in its series, that's a fact

...

>Melee is the worst game in its series
Explain why it's worse than Brawl or Smash 4

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>melee
>final destination and.....and....
You tried

>doesn't know what he's talking about
yeesh... get a load of this guy

>graphics of a polished turd
>no variety in its gameplay
>meta has been solved for over a decade
Need I go on?

>melee
>better online support
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
and don’t tell me “there’s a mod bro” there’s online multiplayer mods for fuckin everything

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#Meleeorbust

>graphics
>compfag
I see

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ever heard of dolphin?

at the level i'm at there are a few low tier heroes at locals, and among friends we all have our low tier secondaries. it's not a factor unless you're going serious hardcore competitive.

Faster Melee dolphin netplay is leagues above the shit that is Ultimate netplay.

NOOOOOOO STOP INSULTING CUNTIMATE AND STOP PLAYING MELEE YOUR OLD BOOMER GAME DOESNT HAVE THIRD PARTIES OR WAIFUS OR BANJOKE OR ISABELEE OR BOWSETTE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

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i like melee and ultimate and i think they both offer unique and captivating gameplay

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>ultimate
>fair fair fair fair fair fair
>captivating

yikes dude...if you can't pick a side maybe you should just stick to plebbit

>Actually has combos.
but ultimate has combos too
>YEAH BUT I MEAN ACTUAL COMBOS

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it's more like
>Melee
>Triplats, Stadium 1, and FD
>Again

Smash doesn't have combos

Remove inputs and back to block seeing as they were arcade controls limitations and then we'll talk.

Fucking hate centrists.
>ooooooh imNOOTRAL I WANNA GRILL HAHAHAHAHA BOOOOOOOOTRAL
PICK A SIDE YOU FUCKING PROBLAMATIC WASTES OF LIFE

Ultimate has flowcharts for the combos.
Melee has a freeform combo system.
That's why people say "Real combos", but your post is most likely bait.

>Remove inputs
inputs are fun

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That sounds like Smash is an underwhelming series

The inputs in Smash are far more inconsistent than their home games

i always thought the opposite
even in top level Super Turbo you can see pros screw up fireball inputs

I only play SFV and Smash, I always thought they were so inconstant in smash.

The only thing Melee has going for it is the fact that is the last time we saw the N64-era for most of the characters before they had their modern designs on the GameCube era and onward.

Stuff like tan Mario and Luigi, Luigi having a different voice due to it being inconsistent at the time, Bowser with Godzilla-like roars, SF64 Fox and Falco with the same Japanese VA's, OOT Link and Zelda and a ton more. Not to mention that Rare was credited and had that Perfect Dark item

>laughably bad balance
>game breaking glitches
melee presentation and speed is top tier though
smash switch is close but they obviously phoned it in when it came to content

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christ i love melee so much bros
what is it about melee that makes so many people absolutely fuming Yea Forums? whether it be nu smash stinkers, FGCeethers, stream monsters, whatever.

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Yeah, minus Melee, it's fun being able to have a personality within your combos.
It's why I'm not a fan of infinites in any fighting game. No variety

#Meleeorbust, brother. Fuck Ultzoomers

the king is dying tho

>what is it about melee that makes so many people absolutely fuming Yea Forums?
Have you looked at Sonyfags?

based
nothing compares to this, absolutely nothing

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>nu smash stinkers
So everything after 64

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I wouldn't say fuck Ultzoomers, Ultimate has it's plus sides, but if it had better movement, and a free form combo game, it'd be better with no downsides.

Doesn't even have to be wavedashing
>Inb4 they add wavedashing, but make it like buffered aerials where you get a perfect wavedash by pressing jump and shield at the same time in the direction of your left stick

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>this is top level smash
jej

>fair,nair,fair,fair
this, with no exaggeration, is how 90% of the ultishart roster plays

B-b-but it's totally a fighting game
>has to jump through hoops to make it even remotely balanced

Sounds about right for a party game franchise

The object of the game is to fight against your opponent. It's a fighting game.

>Replying to his own bait to entice replies.
You don't have to jump through hoops, you do the EXACT same shit as any other FG.
Set a time limits, how many rounds, (stocks) and set your stage list.

The biggest "jumping through hoops" you do is turning off items. Eat my dick, stop spouting literal bullshit.

truly i do not care if smash is considered a fighting or party game series. i don't care about what people who don't play the game think. all i need is a gamecube controller and dolphin and i'm set. simple as

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It's harder than the majority of fighting games

>and set your stage list.

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Is quite sad that melee players will go with their stupid melee VS newest smash narrative until they are in their 40s or 50s, nobody really cares un less you are autistic.

And that's why Smashfags can only play Smash

youtube.com/watch?v=q53sPZm0B-0
kino

Street fighters stages are all exactly the same.
Tekken not so much, soul calibur not so much. No fighting game is created equal.

smash isn't necessarily a fighting game
smash isn't necessarily a party game
it's just smash.

Leffen was/is a top DBFZ player

>64fags are the only part of the Smash fanbase that doesn't fling shit or has a persecution complex
How do they do it?

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Because they don't exist.

There is no such thing as "flowchart combos" and "real combos". As far as the majority of fighting games go, you lab your hit-confirms and punishes for optimal damage, stage positioning and oki, and then use them whenever possible. Even Marvel with all the freedom you had was mostly about doing BnB combos and setups

Ultimate combos aren't even that flowchart now that top players figured the DIs for them. Most combos comes from reading DI and improvising but I bet you haven't watched Ultimate in forever so you wouldn't know

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they're the personification of the 30 year old boomer meme. most people here who identify as boomers are aggressive retards. but 64boomers actually just want to kick back and chill and combo each other.

melee's roster had so much soul, ultimate's so hollow in comparison

>mfw i enter /ssbg/ and its all nu smash
STINKY DAY turns into STINKY THREAD

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Soul is a shitty buzzword but I actually see a point here
Rosterfags here would have a retarded meltdown if the likes of Sheik, Ice Climbers, or Game and Watch was a newcomer to Ultimate

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>any smashfag pretending they don't stink

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>No such thing as flowchart combos
Yes there is.
Do x, into y, into z.
I'll give you some credit though DI mixups do help, but they're very easy to understand and very simple to overcome exaggerating the issue.

I'm making these complaints in light of your comment, I already know these issues, and my points still stand on their own. Melee has dumb depth with DI, top players constantly talk about how little room there is for interesting DI in ultimate, out right quitting playing it because of that. Example: Axe.

You tried, but I refuse to sit here and be told that 1 DI mixup saves Ultimate. When it hammers in how flow chart the system is.

>Yes there is.
so what you're saying is that fighting games are a flawed genre

No, because /if/ flowchart combos can exist, doesn't mean they do across the board. Some FGs have more depth elsewhere, FGs aren't only complex combos, you have spacing, contextual combos (Screen space, HP left, meter usage, spacing on 1st hit confirm ect ect.)
Unlike other FGs, Ultimate lacks depth in this area. Where combos just go nowhere, or are uninteresting if the context doesn't favor them heavily. You'll maybe get 1-2 hits if you aren't perfectly set up to get the hugest payoff, unlike other FGs where you can use your brain to apply your kit and extend as hard as possible to keep your payoff worth it.

Even if every stage was tournament viable, the list of stages to use competitively would still be small. Stage picking is a game in and of itself in Smash Bros so they're just going to find the most optimal stages and stick to those in order to not spend all day picking stages. That's why it's a good thing that there aren't a lot of viable stages, because it doesn't effect either side of the casual/competitive dynamic so long as there's enough to counter pick, and you're left with a lot of fun weird stages to mess with.

Also as some people have stated, super freaks have narrowed down roster viability but if you're just someone who knows Melee's deeper mechanics than most characters will work fine for you. A lot of people get hung up on the absolute peak of play being representative of the whole game when it comes to fighting games, which often turns them away.

>because /if/ flowchart combos can exist
bnb's are pretty much where everything begins

>26 characters, 7 of which are clones
>10 characters completely viable and good in competitive tournaments, in addition to 2-3 mostly viable characters with development/strategies that are pretty much good except against the gods specifically

I'd say melee is fine. yes the bottom 8 are unusable. is it that big of a problem? smash ultimate has at least 8 that are completely unusable too.

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Having BnBs isn't flowchart.
BnBs are helpful, but let's say you ONLY did BnBs in Ultimate. You'd be fine.
Let's say you ONLY did BnBs in street fighter. You wouldn't be fine, and you'd get your dick thrashed. Apply the ideology, like actually think about it. You're omitting a lot just so you can say what you did in your reply.

>a basic combo structure that's the same every time isn't a flowchart

>pester 20 different people to play xrd
>no one wants to play
>hop on smashladder
>10 million players

ok

>he thinks ICs make it to top 8s all the time

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Smash can still stand to be more accessible. The controls are actually in need of improvement
>Movement should be able to be tied to the d-pad for characters like Ken and Ryu
>D-Pad should be able to have tilts or smashes tied to it.
>You should be able to disable tilts or smashes being mapped to the same button
Smashes and tilts being mapped to the same button is the one thing Smash does that actually makes it objectively worse than most fighting game controls, which map LMH to different buttons.

That's not what I said.
I said
/Having BnBs isn't flowchart./
All because a game has BnBs doesn't make it a flowchart game.

It's like you aren't actually even reading my replies. Because you wouldn't have made your reply if you actually read the shit I was saying.

>that one person that pretends to be a 64 OG despite melee being the beginning of competitive smash and 64 actually getting started a few years after melee

love it

Yoshi is the most fun character in the game and is better than people give the character credit for.

This is the best push buttons character in the game for fun and fluidity.

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"Like 3 characters are viable man."
Lmaoing at retards

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I'll tell you why I think Smash is better
Fighting games
>To try and hit someone above you, you need to use Ryu's crouching heavy punch
Smash
>To try and hit someone above you, you need to press up and the attack button because that makes actual fucking sense

>Where combos just go nowhere, or are uninteresting if the context doesn't favor them heavily. You'll maybe get 1-2 hits if you aren't perfectly set up to get the hugest payoff
It's kinda funny seeing this while watching a ST top 8 VOD

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>/Having BnBs isn't flowchart./
but it is
they're flowchart combos

Daaaaamn lets see yoshi do this shit in ultimate

WEAR DEODORANT NIGGER

>Let's say you ONLY did BnBs in street fighter. You wouldn't be fine, and you'd get your dick thrashed.
Absolute bullshit, if you have decent BnBs and can consistently win neutral you're fucking golden against the vast majority of opponents.

let me know when i can do this in ultimate

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But if you could do that in Ultimate you wouldn't like it

>>You should be able to disable tilts or smashes being mapped to the same button

Set tiltstick

ICs in Ultimate are the lamest they've ever been

I think Icies actually do have some retarded shit or something like this in Ult

Throw it at me. If I'm wrong so be it, I'm not ashamed to be incorrect, from what I've played, and watched, my statement has held up. I might've been hyperbolic, but that's to drive my narrative, it genuinely feels, and looks with accordance to what I proposed.

I see the point you're making, and the disconnect that's happening. You're arguing the fundamental of a BnB is it's a flowchart combo LITERALLY, I was talking about the game itself being labeled as such. Under that context I think re-reading my posts you'll agree.

Maybe online, you ever go to a local?
Constant contextual combo for varying purposes
Save meter for bigger payoff, go for tick grab for Oki game, waste ult here, or wait for extra damage off focus, go for super, or better spend that meter on EX, FADC here to extend, or don't?

All these questions create a fluid, and very nuanced combo system, with insane depth. Or at least, respectable depth. These minute interactions will drive better players to push ahead against people who literally only spam BnBs, which is what I see happen in locals.

they have nothing like this at all because Nana can't grab

PPMD is the greatest player to ever touch the game. It's a shame he got cut down in his prime by medical issues.

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>Throw it at me.
youtu.be/rHPWkoXFIKM?t=4056

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Oh, I thought you were talking about Smash, god I'm fucking retarded, regardless sick VOD.

No, that is not a solution. Tilt stick demands you reset the stick to a neutral position before tilting again. Smash attacks on the A button could still end up being a mis-input tilt attacks. The solution is so obvious, just let people disable what they want on the A button and map the other action to the stick. This is so simple that I don't find the idea of just dealing with the current state of controls acceptable.

Check this shit out
youtube.com/watch?v=mk09c6iLLdU
I wish Ultimate had dash dancing for real, I still enjoy it though

Too bad they had to gut movement even 8 year olds can do.
God I hate Ultimates ideology
"Top players, and good players used it, so we HAVE to make it shittier and uninteresting!"

It's no problem
Now, not that user that was talking about just using BnB's and having a good neutral in SF, but I also think I get what he was talking about
youtube.com/watch?v=4r6Ev7FvwtI
But maybe it doesn't count as much since grapplers are like that basically by design

I get what he's on about. I won't ignore it, but my reply serves as a means to counter the narrative. The system in place is usuable by every character, and it feels great.

Only retards have this opinion. Please, actually play the game and understand a bit more of it before spouting your opinions as if they matter.

Good players of the game have to work to understand the intricate differences between each character and stage. Top-tiers are completely different in how they feel to play as and against.

I miss him bros...

Attached: 05-al-bust.jpg (750x861, 116K)

This looks very not fun

i want to see 5 freeform combos that don't involve Fox, Falco, or Falcon in any way

I've had matched with Falcos that felt like completely different characters based on the player alone. The styles and flavors of each character are vast if anything, you can pinpoint PPMDs falco vs Mangoes just by how they space their moves, it's genuinely mesmerizing.

The spacing in this clip is unbelievable, and it's against Armada of all people. Nobody will push Armada like this again. Praise SSJ2 PPMD Azul (Forma Enojada) (APEX Arc) (PhD Restored)

Smash Wii U actually felt like it had passion put into it, but because of laid ass gaijin, it felt like he was forced into Ultimate

What like Marth/Sheik or Sheik/Yoshi or Pika/Mario or Mario/anyone or Donkey Kong/anyone etc?

Watch Amsa, watch Abate.
Watch Gimr, watch Dan Salvato.
Watch Axe. Watch fucking anyone who doesn't play those 3 characters and you'll see them.

You wouldn't be making these comments if you actually put time into understanding the medium you're complaining about.

>this thread again

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Literally look at the webms in the thread retard

So true, I am always amazed at Yea Forums's and the FGC's shitty opinions on Melee. I think it's a reminder of what a unique gift the game is. I wish I could share it with more people.

exactly like that
as in I want to see these characters against each other

Okay so go look up those combos then?

Like did you want us to clip them from youtube vods and make them into webms for you or something?

>I am always amazed at Yea Forums's and the FGC's shitty opinions on Melee.
It probably wouldn't be like this if the fanbase wasn't so ass, but this is something that basically applies to the Smash fanbase as a whole
Smash pretty much attracts a ball of raving autism

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based retard, thank you for keeping the thread alive

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>Surprised Yea Forums doesn't take the time to deeply consider anything they talk about.
The FGC never really had an issue with Melee in my experience. Except memes, which are just memes anyway.

If you want to share it with more people, open up a local weekly, where people can meet up and learn how to play, there's a dude named Jon who runs a noobie weekly where people can come over and get better, he's solid himself and a very good teacher, become the change you want to see.

Could YL take a major if Axe grinded him seriously?

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>you can pinpoint PPMDs falco
you can only do this cause his falco is alway in the same place
the fucking grave

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I feel like people only say this as a huge point for Melee because the most prominent characters are like that, and because 4 and Brawl barely had it.
Most of the character in Mid and below are pretty much pigeonholed into one playstyle because their tools suck so much compared to the bid dogs. And considering that's half of the roster, it makes it much less impressive than you let on.
Also, Ultimate has this too, it can bee seen a lot in characters like Snkae and Olimar, where their top players pay drastically different. MVD plays a more reserved, camp-heavy Snake, where as Ally had played a more aggressive and up-close ones. Both were making use of Snake's amazing tools. Dabuz plays a zoner-heavy Olimar with a heavy bait-and-punish gameplan, whereas Myran and Shuton play Olimars that make use of his surprisingly good aerials and combo starters. Hell, Sinji plays a Pac Man who likes to trap and throw projectiles, and goes in for the big 50% combo or kill. Tea makes heavy use of his amazing boxing tools and uses his projectiles as mainly get-off-me or combo tools.

Fox and Falco are more interesting than any character in ultimate

Mid tiers don't all play the same what the fuck? You have variance among players using every character, it's pretty obvious you don't know much about the game.

Not at all, I don't think anyone will. Young Link was a meme pick used pretty much only to counter Jiggs, no one is left who has the interest to dedicate themselves to a character they don't like just to play one of the most boring matchups in existence

DI in melee is a lot stronger than smash 4 and ultimate, meaning that pulling off a long freeform combo is going to be pretty difficult against a top player who knows what followups you're capable of doing

I Ctrl+F'd 'online' and I am very disappointed that there's only like 3 people who are even mentioning the fact that Melee has no online.

Also, for the record, online is pretty decent for Smash these days, as long as you're not playing Billy WiFi.
There's tournaments, shared content, regular ol' smash, and arenas for playing with your friends or with janky rules.

What do people not like about Ultimate's online? What would you improve?

Nope, Melee has longer combos. Ultimate is a few hits at most, and not confirms. The difference isn't just DI, it's how you move through the air to connect hits.

I was leaning on the more low-to-mid side, with characters like Ganondorf and such. I was being a bit too broad. I didn't mean they all played the same, I meant they all have one or two effective gameplans.

Anthers ladder.
Even craptops can play Melee on Anthers at 60fps.

If it didn't have edgehogging and jank looking gameplay like wavedashing I'd still be playing it.

Oh wait it doesnt have king dedede.. no I wouldnt

>Melee has no online
I play Melee online all the time, with a better response time than Ult's.

>What do people not like about Ultimate's online? What would you improve?
Netcode in general

Also for the matchmaking system they have they should have kept the 4gloryhole and 4fun system from Wii U.

>not confirms
Are you retarded? There are plenty of confirms in Ultimate, if we're going by the "X will always connect into Y at Z percentage" definition

Yeah but its shower game is horrible

netcode that's better than what Melee Netplay does for free
preferred rules scrapped in favor of a For Fun mode with items and shit and a For Glory style mode that's BF/Omega Forms, 3 stock, 7 minutes

youtube.com/watch?v=W9QdMmIZCQk
All of the top Ganon players play differently. Please watch the game.

Ganondorf players can be pretty high variance though from Bizz to Kage and n0ne

Remember 4xM anons?
youtube.com/watch?v=pPG504Xwqx4

>Eikelmann
More like arrested

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Bait.
"Jank looking" is subjective.
You can't say "glitched" or "cheating" because you know it's bullshit and Sakurai even told everyone it was intentional in development.

Edgehogging is fine, you got hit, you got knocked off, you are at disadvantage for putting yourself in this situation enough to go offstage multiple times, edgehogging is a good mechanic and earned.

Even if Ultimate had 1:1 movement and mechanics to Melee, Yea Forums still would bitch about the swordies being overpowered and go back to Melee

Attached: 1454371387651.gif (258x194, 541K)

You mean where the best character has a sword?

>Is a dead game

Nice assumption. Every complaint is how shit the movement is, and how bland the mechanics are. Without those issues, I can see Yea Forums and or any Melee player having a good time with Ultimate.

Sorry, that wording made my point a bit confusing
Melee far and away better combo game, I meant that the defensive play is quite interactive and that means that long freeform combos require that you predict and play extremely well, and in some cases that your opponent fucks up their DI
Ultimate has basically removed DI and SDI which means it's got even less combo depth than Melee than is readily apparent

>"All'
For one, don't make them sound more prevalent than really are
Secondly, I'm still making the point of "effective" gameplans. You can play a zoner-based Mario, but that won't get you very far.
Ganondorf hasn't taken a major yet, and probably never will, because his toolkit just isn't good enough for any player to make good use of. But that doesn't mean he can't take sets off of Top Players playing better characters.
The question is, exactly how many of those Ganondorfs will do so
He said it
if all of these Ganons play differently, but only one or two of them do anything of note, how many effective gameplans does Ganon really have?
I hope i made my point clear

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Not really, PM showed people are itching for a Melee sequel that just takes the core gameplay and expands on it by creating more characters and a few new mechanics like Samus' weapon mode swapping.

Shit right I forgot you're too underage to even remember PM before twitch banned it and killed the major scene. Still, I play it with friends all the time.

One character that requires technical precision really doesn't compare to several sword characters that aren't any fun to play against

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>Without those issues, I can see Yea Forums and or any Melee player having a good time with Ultimate.
If the balance is shit, that kills the game no matter how good the mechanics are
I do remember Armada bitching about PM having to learn too many matchups, yes

The question was can the character, a mid tier, be played in many different effective styles.

Yes.

You mean the mod that a lot of Melee players decried and some top players said they didn't even like after all was said and done

There's nothing conceptually wrong with wavedashing. The only problem was the sheer extent that it affected the game in Melee, making it more viable than walking for a lot of characters. If you made it just a tiny bit more effective than it is in ultimate, but don't get to the sheer smelly melee levels that it was in melee, there's no issues with it.

Yeah not even close to Melee, and I play both

Ahem
>"EFFECTIVE"
That is my point. How many of these Ganondorfs did something like cause an upset against a top player? did ANYTHING of note other than being popular with the fans?
If you can provide more than two examples, I'll gladly repeal my argument and out myself as a retard.

Even then, that's assuming a hypothetical, painting a negative narrative is extremely easy, just like a positive one when you paint hypotheticals.

Effective just means it can get a win against an equally skilled opponent. Ganon can do this multiple ways.

fact

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Bizz took a game off Armada, the best player in the world. Even so, it's the same in Ultimate. Quit arguing a non-point you autist.

So your saying none of the Ganondorf players were skilled enough to take a major?

Yup.

>Played Melee since 2004
>been involved with the community training new kids, going to tournaments seldomly but still friends with old old pros
>still love the game
>mfw i see melee worship threads though

yknow for a fact that this will rile up the Smash ultimate kids and cause arguments, Why do you gotta be divisive man? Their games not bad.

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Most of the ultimatefags that complain about melee probably only play ultimate online with krool and ganondorf lmao

>Even so, its the same in Ultimate
And here is what I was expecting. There's the fact that not only has the game been out less than a year. But characters like Piranha Plant were considered bad until someone did something with him, and now he's legit skyrocketed up a near universal 10 spots on most Top Player's lists. That's not even faceting in potential buffs or nerfs
10 months vs 20 years, which is more damning hmm?

I like how Qerb falls off once the players aren't literally who's. Game and Watch is such a sad case. The characters close to being decent if only L-cancelling actually worked for him and he had a good shield. I feel like him not having cancels for some of his aerials has to be a oversight.

It was literally the same when Melee came out you absolute retard, look at the old tier lists

This.

It's really a shame that Nintendo wasn't smart enough to realize that they had gold with the Melee gameplay engine and they could have added to it, polished it, brought in 70 characters. Would have been sick and reproduced PM's unison of the Smash community into one game.

Instead they took the gameplay backwards and lowered the skill ceiling as if it has anything to do with the skill floor.

give him a faster spotdodge/roll as well

Most of the people here are basically stream monsters that go 1-2 at best at their locals, assuming they actually play the games they circlejerk over
And it wouldn't even be all that surprising because Yea Forums is so shit at video games

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That's why I didn't bring up Ultimate when talking about that facet of Melee, retard
YOU are the one who brought up a growing metagame to retaliate a point against 2-decade old one.

No one said their game is bad in the OP.
He's just reveling on what IS better about Melee. Ultimate has it's upsides too.

It is, the aerials he can't L-Cancel are regarded as special moves, like the Up-B, Down-B, ect ect.
The shield one is questionable too. Great character, taken down by bad development.

i think playing melee in 2019 and making money abusing glitches has to be a oversight

>brought in 70 characters.
All fun and games until history repeats itself again

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>Special moves

WAIT WHAT? Does that show in debug? I gotta see this shit.

Attached: w.png (550x474, 276K)

Be more subtle friendo.

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I hate this argument that mechanics don't affect casuals. Little Timmy isn't going 2-2 with Armada, but Little Timmy is still going to noivce that he can't get back on ledge when his brother is on it, or that he he stays immobilized for a solid second when he gets hit. and Little Timmy will get upset by these things, making him not like the game, something Sakurai wants to avoid
>BUT I DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT
congrats, you are both in the minority and from a much different generations of gamers

I think it does. That's how people figured it out. There's gotta be some shit online somewhere.

>implying hbox would have won against axe

top jej

It's honestly impressive how melee just existing upsets so many people on Yea Forums.

>It's honestly impressive how anything just existing upsets so many people on Yea Forums.
Fixed

>478631797
>"abusing glitches"
wavedashing was intentional, they just never removed it because they didn't think anyone would use it

L canceling is fully intentional, the smash 64 official website even told you how to do it, calling it "Smooth Landing"

Most of Yea Forums is genuinely bad at video games, and the majority probably haven't even played it.

melee good, shitimate nu-smash ultizoomer etc etc

Bullshit, if I could combo Chrom like I can combo Marth in Melee I'd have no problem.

It's literally the opposite, this is one of the only theads where Melee is being praised. It's generally people shitting on it

Click on the post number to reply. That or use two greater than signs, but just clicking is more convenient.

Just look at any tourney thread and you'll see Ultimatefags and Meleefags throwing shit everywhere
>b-b-but
And they both like to pretend they're the innocent victim that dindu nuffin too

It's so funny to have multiple tournament threads up in one day full of people who just want to shit on the game.

Go back

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...but has an over 60 character roster
What was your point there user

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Did Little Timmy have a problem with any of that in 2001? How does Little Timmy even have the capacity to articulate something like " THE HITSTUN IS TOO LONG, THIS IS BULLSHIT NINTENDO" when's presumably something like fucking 12? Also for all the blanding and dumbing, shitters still get dunked on in Ultimate, so in the end Sakurai's gay little egalitarian experiments fail anyway.

Most of the people mad about it are unironically board culture bandwagoners who know little to nothing about it.

Shower meme is retarded shut the fuck up fags we don't smell fucking clowns

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Any time someone brings up the fanbase it just falls back to both sides wanting to claim dindu nuffin so I just like to say all Smashfags are shit

Does anyone know why the fuck there's so much lag in Ultimate? It's a mechanically fun game that I want to play, but as a Melee/PM veteran, it feels godawful to play because of the lag alone.

This image irritates me because it implies that the average person who opines on this topic even wait until they get on top of Mount Stupid before opining. They just start saying shit from zero starting information and expired memes. The Yea Forums chart should just be a giant downward slope for "willingness to opine" and knowledge.

Except he isn't referring to ultimate vs melee.
You get the people who just regurgitate the same shit because that's what they were told.

Man, Final Figth and God of War are my favorite Fighting games

It seems intentional, why would they do it?

Take a god damn shower.
youtube.com/watch?v=QkZB6YxtWKI
youtube.com/watch?v=yZC3Ogpy9Zo
youtube.com/watch?v=hgdzoNFvtU0

Attached: stinky wojak.png (406x452, 30K)

I still don't understand what the fuck Sakurai thinks will happen.
People are going to be objectively better no matter what you do.

>>Actually has combos
I, too, like to pretend that Ultimate doesn't have combos.

We all know the reason why most people get so butthurt about either game is because autists can't stand people having fun with the wrong game and immediately start shitflinging

Stinky day was a Smash 4 meme that you retards tried to push onto Melee, then you have an autist shitting himself at an Ultimate tournament. Also as someone that goes to locals for both, Ultimate has more neckbeard types with MLP shirts and shit

Pretty sure he believes the game is meant to be fun to everyone and despise people who try to gatekeep everyone else because they like items and stages with hazards and stuff

What do you mean lag, Ultimate has lower landing lag than 4/Brawl and some L-cancelled Melee aerials. Is it the buffer?

The only thing I can think of is to make online play less shitty, i.e. delayed inputs cause less lag, but online still sucks cock. How the fuck is are GC/Wii netplay hacks so much better than a first-party 2018 game?

When a bunch of guys sit in a room and exert themselves from a sitting position it starts to smell because everyone gets sweaty. This isn't particularly unique to Smash though which is why the meme is retarded.

Smash players trying to say they don't stink is like watching Yugioh players trying to say they don't stink

You all smell bad. Take a shower.

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Not even exerting really. If you have a large amount of people in a small area it will start to smell.

Fuck off

Attached: 1566153654254.gif (570x537, 48K)

Sakurai is anti-meritocracy for his games. It's basically the worst kind of mentality one could possibly have as a game designer.

>Not even exerting really. If you have a large amount of people in a small area it will start to smell.
Not true if everyone practices proper hygiene.

I'm fine with buffers. When you input something on the controller from a standstill, there's a very noticeable frame delay until the action takes place on-screen. I've tested this on a 1ms monitor.

I shower 2 times a week and smell great, Meleefags must be covering themselves in shit

Most locals I go to smell like straight shit man. Sweaty fuckers can't help it, but people act like this doesn't happen at any gaming event.

I've been to multiple professional conferences.
Doesn't matter what the hygiene is, when you have 100+ people sitting in a room for over 4 hours you can definitely start to notice the smell.

>Sweaty fuckers can't help it
Yes, they can.

Shower right before you leave the house.

Based retard.

I've been to conventions and various large events, and none of them smelled as bad as the Smash tournaments I've been to. The people literally just don't shower or use deodorant. It was so bad at the last one I went to the announcer had to get everyone's attention to tell the room there was deodorant out in the hall.

I remember I tried to play this online over netplay and I got paired up with a Fox in a 1v1. The game said it was an AI at the character select screen but it definitely didn't play like one because the guy was relentlessly kicking my ass the whole time. Is that how it is or did I just get my shit pushed in by a maxed AI CPU character?

Maybe you downloaded 20XX and fought the improved CPUs

Take a fucking shower and use deodorant.

I don't care how fucking fat you are, if you smell THAT bad its on you.

You forgot
>requires a factory defect controller to be competitive

Showering more than twice a week is counter intuitive as it ruins your skin

70% is over 50% dumb nigger

And more lies you can tell yourself to feel better. Your skin is the least of your problems lardass

>somehow showering magically stops you from sweating

Wrong

Take a goddamned shower

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You sure seem to be projecting a lot about weight.
Could you by chance be the fat one?

>he showers instead of using his stink to knock out the player next to him

Sweating doesn't magically make the chair you're sitting reek of unwashed asshole. Sweat is just sweat, it doesn't contain the bacteria that causes your lardass to stink up the whole fucking room just by existing in it.

If you smell THAT bad, you either didn't shower or you have a medical condition in need of addressing.

No idea, just recall it was over that Dolphin emulator. Guess it shall remain a mystery.

So you accept that showering won't just suddenly stop people from sweating.

I'm sad at the direction Smash has gone with their gameplay
They should have been trying to make all the cool crazy shit you can do in melee easier, not removing it
How can a game that's supposed to be combining platformers and fighting games not have your momentum carry into your jumps?

To netplay you have to actively connect to another person so it's almost certain it was just 20xx.

>melee

why would I want to L-cancel every goddam aerial when ultimate removes this pointless extra step?

>melee

why would I want to go from 0% to getting KO after one mistake when I have to work much harder to get a KO?

>melee

why would I want to use only four characters when ultimate has every character viable?

>smelee

why would I want to play a game that stinks as bad as the shit-scented fanbase that plays it?

Because then a 5 year old kid would have no chance at beating somebody like Armada or MKLeo if there was jump momentum.

Sweating doesn't magically make the bacteria that causes you to fucking stink to appear on your fucking body

Sweat + bacteria = smell

No bacteria, no smell

Take a fucking shower

>Little Timmy will get upset by these things
You realize that Melee was the most popular game on the Gamecube right?

And Smash was 5th highest selling on the N64?

Are you under some kind of delusion that Melee and 64 were unpopular with casual players and children?

I know you were probably born the same year Melee came out, but believe me that it was extremely popular among kids. You know why? Because none of its mechanics were off-putting to casual play.

Attached: 1564196066441.png (499x516, 308K)

And Brawl, Smash 4 and Ultimate sold even better, guess you're wrong :^)

>he doesn't understand how bacteria work

Has nothing to do with the point you were trying to push

Lots of the mechanics are shit for casual play. L cancelling, ledge hogging and not being able to grab the fucking ledge backward, for example, are all shit for casual play.

All the following games sold better, so I guess they're even MORE attractive to casual players, according to your "logic"

Damn, well, the way it played was uncanny. It even taunted and did that jumping around spamming laser pistol shots thing they always do in tourneys after their opponent loses a stock.

>you
More than one person is calling you on your moronic retardation

>everyone LOVES Melee look at sales numbers
>The other games sold better
>N-n-not the p-point....

Hang yourself.

> L cancelling, ledge hogging and not being able to grab the fucking ledge backward, for example, are all shit for casual play.

None of those things affected casual play in 64 and Melee, which is the point being proven by the post.

Take a shower

With soap

take a biology class

and pass

the following games sold ever better, therefore the changes were clearly liked by casuals, as more of them bought the game

>>everyone LOVES Melee look at sales numbers

Thanks for proving your illiteracy and that your posts can be disregarded.

I'm not the original guy you were arguing with but you were trying to say that complex gameplay and mechanics were offputting to casuals, meanwhile it was the best selling game for the console. Keep seething zoomer faggot.

When the FUCK is Nintendo going to re-release this?

I did, passed with a B average!

Take a fucking shower.

If you shower, sweat a little bit in the process of just walking around and playing a video game and smell like a literal unwashed anus to everyone within a 12-foot radius mere hours later, you have a medical condition.

>B average
Why the fuck would I listen to a retard?

>You realize that Melee was the most popular game on the Gamecube right?
>And Smash was 5th highest selling on the N64?
>Are you under some kind of delusion that Melee and 64 were unpopular with casual players and children?

Read your own fucking posts you fucking moronic jizzrag

>attributing sales to one factor
>goalpost shifting

tip kek

The point being btfo was that skill ceiling affects skill floor when it comes to children and casuals. Melee and 64 proved that it doesn't, because they were well liked by both demographics. The sales of other games are irrelevant to whether or not those two games were popular with kids and casuals.

Go back to playing trash 2.0 retard why are you in a melee thread kek

>but you were trying to say that complex gameplay and mechanics were offputting to casuals
Yes, they are.

Which is why the other games without those mechanics sold better and the franchise got even more popular.

Doesn't mean casuals didn't still play and like 64/Melee, just means they liked the following games more. Because they bought more copies of it. How else do you gauge the popularity of the game? Your asspulled anecdotal evidence?

And, AGAIN, the other games were more well-liked.

Melee and 64 didn't have simpler alternatives available at the time.

If casuals were SOOOOOOOOOOO enamored with Melee, why didn't they keep playing it instead of moving onto the other games?

>trash 2.0
Melee?

The GameCube also sold less, PS2 overshadowed it by far. Not to mention video games are more popular now, and Smash has built itself as a well known game. You're actually retarded and arguing nothing at all, kill yourself.

Shower harder, Smelee cuck

Smash 4 sold just as well on half the GC's install base

Why do you bring up stuff associated with 4/ultimate to shit on melee?

Once again, irrelevant.

You lost the point when casuals liked 64 and Melee back in 1999 and 2001 user. You already lost. Skill floor is not affected by skill ceiling.

>b-b-but install base
Nice, moving the goalposts

Why do zoomers come into melee threads and seethe over the fact that their game is easier and people enjoy tech skill?

Just stop replying, he's got nothing at this point.

>Smelly unwashed assholes
>Not associated with Melee
lol

Correct.
It came from posts about 4 and ultimate.

It's pretty hilarious that it's well established that stinky day is from Smash 4 yet the autists try to push it onto Melee. Zoomers are literally retarded

GOAT game, it's a shame the later entries downgraded the gameplay because the dev is a bit simple.

I like Ultimate well enough but it took two shit games to get to Ultimate, and even then Ult would be spectacular if I could use Melee's movement with Ryu and shit.

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>as ts4sh brought in a wave of zoomers to melee

Hopefully Project NX goes somewhere and will be completed.

For the same reason Smashfags seethe when Smash isn't called a fighting game

cry more ultimate bab your game will be dropped for the next one just like every game that comes out

Why did he make meleefags angry?

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just got done playing a Falco ditto with some rando on anther's and we were just fucking each other up every stock, other fighting games just can't compare to melee's speed, combos, and tech

>playing competitive smash
yowza

Insecurity, I imagine.

I mean imagine being a brawlbabby itt spouting Melee hate for Ultimate. It means that you had to see the Melee box art on the catalog, and immediately become triggered by the idea that there could be people on this board RIGHT NOW posting about Melee without your input. Then you clicked on the thread and spent hours of your time replying to every positive post you could find trying to fill the thread up with shit lmao

And the sad part is no one cares more than to find it sort of funny pitiful

is it the same reason Yea Forums seethes when it is called one?

So the same reason why people go into tourney threads and start squelching about how playing the wrong Smash game is basically the gravest sin imaginable

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>478638675
>nu-pokemon
literal zoomer, no wonder melee makes you seethe

My apologies boomerzoomerdoomergoomer loomerpoomernotaredditmemeoomerdoomermoomerkoomer
Have a crackpot

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Yeah, they see the Melee tourney threads too and the same thing happens. Utterly degen but also sort of silly autism

As expected, Smashfags are dindu nuffin niggers that want to play the victim card when both sides act the exact same

Smash Ultimate has far more character diversity. FACT

That fucking movement goddamn
Was that stadium shenanigans or can you always do that?

Always

go take a shower smelee

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b8 thread

Always although the slant of the boardwalk does change how you need to angle your wavedash a bit.

You are genuinely retarded.
>But other games sold more!
Yeah dipshit Smash is popular with casuals and games are bigger now than ever. Every single one of them was on a console with higher sales than the Gamecube except the Wii U version. Which, shocker, sold less. Now come on back and tell me that doesn't count because of the 3DS version.