How do we fix the JRPG genre?

JRPG's are containment areas for weebs who play cringey anime games with RPG elements to go with their waifu dating simulator running on an engine from the PS2 era and loaded with hundreds of costume DLC packs for $5 each. Once you find a person who likes a JRPG then you know that person has shit taste in games and their opinions should be discarded.

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> Nintendo buys Mistwalker
> Nintendo buys Sega
> Nintendo buys Square Enix
> Give Hironobu Sakaguchi full control over Square Enix
> Nintendo buys Platinum Games
It’s really that simple

there's absolutely nothing wrong with the Persona genre. Give me one reason why there isn't enough room for both of these experiences.

>How do we fix the JRPG genre?
By not acting like Persona and other high school JRPG's are the only JRPG's that exist

People like to shit on P3-P5 for being waifu bait, but 3 is nowhere as egregious as the other two. That game feels like they wanted the social life just to be a side thing because every main character evolves their persona throughout the main story, but because it was a huge success, they ended up being the main focus with 4 onward. Which is dumb because now main cast dont develop in the main story anymore.

Persona 4 is kino

>Fallout 76 BAD!

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Because shitsona is the ultimate gateway drug for gacha games.

>morrowind
>appropriate inventory
>not just grabbing whatever you see

>Truly these in-game philosophical texts have brought me closer to illumination.

That's the most I've cringed at a Yea Forums post in a while, good job OP

Fuck this thread, what RPGs have you been enjoying lately bros? Western or JRPG answers welcome

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>shitsona 3
Take it back.

90% of anime and JRPGs, AND WRPGs are retarded self-insert wish-fulfillment fantasy scenarios for sad, lonely individuals. That said, JRPGs tend to be way more embarrassing about it. No, you will never get to fuck that virtual girl. Go make some real life connections you fucking inbreds.

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I disagree. I loved Persona games when I was a little kid, and I NEVER even played gacha shit. It's called growing up, and most people do it. Persona games are fun when you're growing up, especially if you struggle with socialization.

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only 1 and 2 are decent/good you waifushitter

Does Brandish 4 count as a JRPG?

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>Borderlands 3, yes I know, it's really fun despite the story being aids and the comedy being VERY hit or mis
>Bloodstain since its just released on Gamepass today, really liking it so far, but it feels a bit slow
Plan on buying FF7 since it's on sale on xbox, and DQ11 on Switch.

Name one (1) JRPG with an actual interesting and believable world. Not necessarily realistic, just internally consistent. Bonus points for one with an interesting creation myth.

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3 made the series weeb waifu trash and had generic shadowniggers

Pokemon

by reposting the same type of bait threads over and over in a coordinated or autistic effort to get people mad for no reason
/thread

The entire Xeno series.

more teacher wives

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I’ve yet to find an RPG that’s come even close to how good Fallout 1 was. All JRPG fans have got to talk about is how many cucumbers their waifu’s clit can hold, not any real discussion about e.g. the implications of forced evolution on mankind

>waifus
That was never the focus of the game.
>1 was good
No, don't even say that as a joke. The story/characters were good at best.
>generic shadowniggers
Fair, but they helped with the horror tone of the game a lot.

Parasite Eve, since it takes place in y'know, New York City

same brother. I think the thematic, philosophical, ideological and moral debates that stem from Fallout 1 are perhaps the strongest in the entire Fallout series. Also just the pure atmosphere in Fallout 1 that soaks you into its world is unbeatable.

Fallout 1 was good, especially for its time, but don't pretend its writing was amazing. Excepting the Master there's very little writing of any merit. New Vegas has infinitely better writing than Fallout 1.

>implying every JRPG is fagsona
>proxy persona thread
cancer detected, abandon thread immediately

Wrpgs are just ugly and generic Tolkien ripoffs with elves and dragons. They don't have interesting worlds or designs.

I personally liked Junktown. Upon a first glance, it's obvious to you that Gizmo's the big bad guy and that Killian is a good guy, but as for the fate of the town, the town prospers under Gizmo's rule. Is corruption justifiable if people under such a system, live generally better lives?

I think jrpgs should give more choice to the player, especially those with silent protagonists you should be able to choose you class and skills, also give more dialogue options with more choices and consequences and finally add more interaction with the world beyond just talking to npcs, opening chests and being dragged into random encounters.

So play a wrpg then

Nobody:

Not a single soul:

Random white incel: i cAn't gEt lAiD So i'lL Be a cHuD ThAt aPpRoPrIaTeS RaCiAlLy cHaRgEd wOrDs iN A DeMeAnInG WaY

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>Replay Fallout 2 recently
>Love it
>Start playing Persona 4
>Love it
I kind of miss that you can't fuck up major NPC in dialogs like in F2 and sometimes some dialog options are complitly pointless, but other than that Persona 4 is pretty comfy and good game

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>can't control your party so combat is braindead
>dungeons are proceduraly generated so they're awful
>equipment doesn't matter
what does that even leave gameplay wise

Jrpgs tend to have more likeable characters than wrpgs. There should be some sort of fusion that takes the best elements from both and fuse them into a new genre of rpg

>>Truly these in-game philosophical texts have brought me closer to illumination.
Do you watch Rick and Morty too, OP?

JRPGs currently are better than WRPGs, on the whole. Funny you use a picture of Morrowind and not Skyrim. Skyrim is a more accurate example of the WRPG market, these days. It's abysmal.

>1 wasn't good
it was, it was a nonsense free real jrpg withou dating sim bullshit and a good battle system (Way better than the slow shit of everything since 2), customizable persona for your party members unlike shitsona 3-5

I just like haru

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Oh, so this is indeed a shameless shill thread. Good to know.

>strategy

western rpg-s don't even exist, the only one i can think of which isnt ancient is divinity 2

JRPGs don't need fixing. They are what they've always been and they're good. WRPGs are the ones that need fixing. They are a shadow of their former selves. They were once the best and now they are just trash.

Persona 3 was the last great persona game and OP, like always is a cherry picking faggot
How? Because waifus? Persona doesn’t even have a gatcha game [spoilers]yet[/spoilers]

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Niggers aren't allowed here.

Devil survivor overclocked recommend me some WRPGs underail looks cool

Why? She's probably the second or third worst girl in that game. Such a boring character for being part of the main cast.

Notice how these threads never use modern wrpgs. They're disingenuous shitposting threads from the start.

she's cute. I need nothing else

>Still thinking good things exist.
>Still thinking good things exist and we'll ever get to experience them.

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Fuck its so true. Except for modern WRPG. they can eat dirt.

I guess that's fair.

>persona 1 is better than nusona
When will hipsters fucking die?
Fuck off waifufag go to /pg/

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why smt niggers are always this edgy?

It feels good to a a video gamer that plays and enjoys both.
Fuck anime purists and fuck anti anime fags

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arch.b4k.co/v/thread/477868950/#477868950

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Final Fantasy VII, the way the Materia system figures into the game's plot is kino

>good battle system
>customizable persona for your party members
These are the only actual traits of the game you've listed and even then, it was bloated as fuck with a huge learning curve for creating Personas.
Then there's the absolutely terrible labyrinth design of the dungeons ripe with random encounters. P1 was a complete slog.
>can't control your party so combat is braindead
Except it isn't since you have to think of how to coordinate your team.
>dungeons are proceduraly generated so they're awful
Being procedurally generated means absolutely nothing by itself. The dungeon itself did its job just fine and you could work on it at any pace you wanted.
>equipment doesn't matter
Play a harder mode if you really think that.

its also not an rpg

>SILLY

ok nigger

Why are you such a transexual?

Chrono trigger

The main issue I have with this is that it's never hinted at. In fact, the alternate ending for Killian that was never used was hinted more at considering his personality.

My point still stands, most dialogue in Fallout 1 is rather bad. There's some good stuff, I really enjoyed the story you uncover in the big crater (Of which I forget the name), since it expounds both on the FEV and foundation of the Brotherhood. The Master is also well written, although people tend to praise him a bit too much as a villain. His story is good, especially the slow reveal of it, but he's not "motives are justified" tier. He believes what he does because he has gone insane. An insane man does not make good moral arguments, and people who say that the Master has "good arguments" and "just as justified as the Hero" are dumb.

My main issue however is the general feeling of "silliness". Fallout 2 did this way better, in my opinion. In Fallout 1 however, internal consistency and believability is sacrificed for jokes, and it's sad considering the world building and writing is _really_ good in places, it's just that those places are far and few between.

>Parasite Eve is a 1998 action role-playing survival horror video game developed and published by Square.

That also applies to OP's image, you hypocritical nigger.

Why do you obsess over pngs user?

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It's a JRPG dude...

I do too. My problem is I can't think of a single WRPG this current generation that I liked or even interested me at all. They are just such shit compared to what that genre used to be. Meanwhile, I can think of 4 amazing JRPGs this gen that instantly jump to my mind. Could come up with more if I want to think about it.

Both genres are great when done well. JRPGs are just consistent while WRPGs have turned into trash and are more akin to action adventure games than RPGs anymore.

Xenoblade Chronicles

no replies here means you're absolutely right and no one wants to agree with you, based if i say so myself

>Bonus points for one with an interesting creation myth.
the biggest one is a jRPG, no wRPG comes close to xenogears in this regard. wRPGfags will trash and cry at the fact, but they can't dispute it

XC1 is the least internally consistent game in the series

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>if you like that you're a hipster!
Fuck off retard, nusona is shit gameplay wise

Please recommend me a JRPG I would like. I completely agree with you about the current state of WRPGs. I really liked the philosophical and religious texts of Morrowind. Any JRPGs that focus on that sort of thing will probably get me hooked. I just want an RPG where the main religious bodies aren't just not!Catholic evil inquisition insert.

It's worse. Bethesda should have been sued.

based

And persona 1 has better gameplay?
SMT is good nocturne and devil survivor are the best when it comes to actual good endings

>the biggest one is a jRPG
I like XG but 90% of his "lore" is copied from Western science fiction

Yeah but its also the best in the series

And you probably haven't played many WRPGs btw.

>Liking wrpg

Ehhh... Gross

What JRPGs these days even do that? Maybe you could say that for Persona 5 but that's not even a fair assessment of that plot. Have you tried Xenoblade Chronicles X or 2? Are you looking exclusively for things heavy in philosophy? I mean, loving philosophy while hating things that rag on religions is kind of an oxymoron. I'm not you so it's hard to tell you what you like. Give me something to work with.

>cute
>fluffy
>rich
>marrying her would let you own a company that could produce a lot of cash
>is obviously in love with him even before he confesses
>huge crits
>wants to run a small cafe similar to the one he lives and works in
>loves cats
>outwardly mild-mannered but secretly a little crazy like joker
>satisfies his apparent fetish for older women
>probably a bomb in bed
Haru is the only one who was hoping you would be interested. For everyone else, if you say the friends option, they are just like "oh yeah, were friends. Thats cool." Haru looks rejected when you turn her down. She really was hoping you wanted something more. In addition, she asks you to leave immediately, probably because she couldn't hold it in for too long and needed to cry her heart out.

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>learning curve
you mean a level curve?
>bad labyrinths
They were pretty simple for better or worse, definitely better than the random shit in nusona 3
>muh random encounters
Yeah, if you were prepared those random battles would last 5 seconds unlile shitsona 3-5
>was a complete slog
if you were a brainlet. Also forgot to mention it had the best demon conversations in the whole series with 2 (even better than smt mainlines) something nusona killed in favor of shit minigames
The battles aren't slow as fuck and I can change my party members fucking personas, that's already miles better

>loving philosophy while hating things that rag on religions is kind of an oxymoron

I didn't know philosophy started with Nietzsche.

>battles aren’t slow as fuck
Why tf are you lying?

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>My main issue however is the general feeling of "silliness". Fallout 2 did this way better, in my opinion. In Fallout 1 however, internal consistency and believability is sacrificed for jokes
I feel the same way about Fallout 2. Fallout 1 has a few jokes in it, yes, but it's never overwhelming. Fallout 2 gives out a pop culture reference every 2 minutes, while trying to maintain a Fallout world. The easter eggs are easy to ignore in Fallout 1, but much less so in 2.

It pretty much started with Socrates, who was condemned to death for trusting reason instead of the greek gods.

Since 2 you have to give commands individually instead of all at once, making battle last longer because of bad game design

The solution is simple: Atlus needs to stop making Persona and goes back to purely SMT. Amazed that the Persona fandom can even stand this series. With 2 automatically being the best one since its the one closest with the SMT roots. The rest is just mostly dating sim trash filler till you get to the meat of the real game.

tl;dr Play and support real JRPGs,

Could you link some books or texts you can find in those games that talk about their religions? Sort of like the 36 Lessons of Vivec, or The Reclamations (The whole reformation of the Temple I found really interesting).

If it doesn't have that could you link some dialogue where they explore and talk about it?

No, but I'll check out some of the Xeno games. The franchise is big, so I don't know exactly which.

As for any supposed philosophy-religion dichotomy I cannot comment. I like theology, and the exploration of mythos in games. That's why I like Morrowind so much. It does mythos really, really well. It also does theology really well. Ragging on religion is fine, it's not the criticism itself I find tiresome, but the way every evil church is the same, and every single criticism is the same.

>Started with Socrates
>We only know Socrates through Plato's work
>Plato's writing are full of spiritual treaties, so much it inspired Denys the Aeropagite and other neo-platonist christians
Btw Socrates was condemned to death for teaching the youth to think for themselves, he wasn't against the greek gods and he believed in his own supernatural entity himself (Remember that it's after visiting the Pythia that he started philosophing)

WRPG poster was outed as a real life faggot that feels up barbers penises and actively looks for gay porn. Look it up the archive, there was a shit storm 3 days ago

You think he was the first? The Greeks started doing that shit 4000 years before the "birth of Christ." Philosophy's roots are in the idea of questioning Gods.

>looking for books in JRPGs
Please go read some actual books instead

I know it isn't exact, I said it just to tear down his strawman.

first off, inspiration isn't copying

second, xenogears's lore is a mixed influence of western sci fi, bhuddism, jewish mythology, gnosticism, and psychology

>cannot name one

Even Skyrim came out 8 years ago. Putting it there would very well be accurate, because despite its age, it's still the best representative. You know despite coming out during the previous console generation.

>you mean a level curve?
Both I guess.
>They were pretty simple for better or worse
For worse.
>definitely better than the random shit in nusona 3
Not the point.
>Yeah, if you were prepared those random battles would last 5 seconds
>Git gud and grind
Not an argument.
Why the fuck are you so obsessed with trying to compare every element the two over looking at them as wholes? One doing one specific aspect better than the other means next to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

If you're going to, then start with Chronicles 1. 2 may spoil some things for you. 1 and 2 also do a decent job at exploring the lore of their worlds and "creators" while not really demonizing them.

JRPG fags will never understand the subtle genius of works like pic related, how sad

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Does anyone else make freeform RPGs like Bethesda?
Until something like that happens to a JRPG then I won't be interested.

I know philosphy didn't start with Nietzsche (i'm also ) I just joked about Nietzsche because there are more philosophers who believe in a God or the supernatural than not.
Even Descartes who kickstarted modern philosophy was a theologian.

I've been replaying Suikoden lately after FE3H made me nostalgic. Its fucking bullshit 5 isn't on PSN. God I miss this series so much

.I mean the point isn't about how many of them do or don't believe in an entity. The point is just that wondering/questioning about Gods has always been near the heart of philosophy.

I do. I also like exploring stuff like that in game worlds. An internally consistent world with an interesting mythos and folklore gets my peepee hard.

Bethesda doesn't even do that anymore so I don't even know what you're talking about. Unless you're only requirement for WRPG is "giant empty sandbox with some pointless busy work sprinkled around".

Then don't play JRPGs then as their strength is characters and combat rather than walls of text about religion and politics.

>you have to grind in persona 1
No, you don't, you just need the right personas and there's no level curve (unless you decide to the hard route in the snow queen quest)
>lol why you care
because three is shit

Pretty much this. That's not really a JRPG thing. JRPGs are about character stories more than world lore. Like I said, the Xenoblade games kind of do what you want but it's nothing like Morrowind.

Just go ahead and keep pretending that Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and, you know, ACTUAL SMT don’t exist

Final fantasy tactics buuut...
It got the "church bad >:(" theme

No that I know, people always go
>Tes are terrible open world games
but they are the only good ones actually

Try any Xeno-game aside from the first Xenoblade (Xenoblade 1 is generic gnostic "god is bad" rubbish)
Also, unless you can put up with a game that has a slow beginning that is filled with tons of anime tropes, don't play XB2. It's a very good game, but it only starts to explore the stuff you want around Chapter 6/7.
I personally recommend Xenogears. Probably the deepest JRPG world i've ever experienced, though i'll warn you that the game is pretty heavily unfinished. It's not noticeable until Disc 2, where the game turns into more VN than game.

To be fair, Final Fantasy has been absolute shit for a long time now.

>FF at 10fps docked
noty

Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song.
Most SaGa games really but Minstrel Song goes quite a bit in depth with the creation myth and also allows you to interact with the various gods to the point where you could make contracts with Death to bring back permadead party members or even buy artifacts from the underworld.

SMTIV

>Xenoblade 1 is generic gnostic "god is bad" rubbish
That's really not what happened there and 2 even clarifies more on that. If you think "God is bad" was the takeaway there, then you really weren't paying attention. Unless you want to argue that Shulk became inherently bad when becoming the :God".

>No, you don't, you just need the right personas and there's no level curve
That's why I said learning curve in the first place. The system itself is complex and the game doesn't do a good job of easing you into it.
>lol why you care
Not what I said.
>because three is shit
Why? And don't start giving comparisons as if that actually means something when looking at the game individually.

>Baiting to get recommendations on JRPG
Color me impressed

Beepzorz may be gone, but his ideas live on. Us WRPG-fags will not rest until everybody on this board realizes how shit JRPGs really are; it's what Beepzorz would have wanted.

If you just want combat play DOS2 and try to ignore the terrible writing. For dialogue, play Age of Decadence. For well-intentioned and SOULful but amateurly designed eurojank, try ATOM

Don't listen to him. That really was not the takeaway of Xenoblade 1. 1 even probably does the best job at world lore/building.

>Japanese using western religion to shit on it and have a "let's kill god" scenario.
It's always cringe. As cringe as westerners and their lukewarm version of buddhism for 30yo new age women

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>complex bad!
Now I see why you like three so much, please consider suicide

>WRPG-fags
>plural
Beeprorz, you're hilarious.

>Killing god meme
Why do people think every JRPG is like this?
98% of the time it's some guy who wants to be one and you kill him before he can be one

Kingdom Come Deliverance is a FANTASTIC first try from a new indie studio (Warhorse) it has a lot of problems, but the kind that really only happen due to inexperience, not incompetence. Whatever they make next will be something to look for

XIV is pretty good

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People claiming that Xenoblade is a "God is bad so let's kill him" situation clearly don't understand what happened there or the message at all.

MGQ

>fortify strength 40 is high iq
must be a genius by that measurement

>Strawmen make me right!
Okay, keep being retarded if you want.

>the church is always bad in jrp-
>most famous jrpg in japan has the church as supporters of the hero, the hero himself goes to the church daily and defeats the devil demon lord

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That's why dragon quest is based.

Literally what you said retard, that you find persona 1 complex really fucking says a lot, go play skyrim and nusona

The problem I have with XIV is there is just so many pointless bullshit filler quests Especially between expansions. It makes me want to just beat my fucking brain in. It's just such a god damned slog. Sure the stuff that matters is decent. At least the people in control of that one (and Hiroki Chiba) are far superior to the people in control of the "mainline" games. FF14 and WoFF are the best FF games since 9. The problem with XIV is you need to like MMOs.

Zanza was literally just the Demiurge, and Shulk became a "God" but not the same type of God, since he found his Monado (Monad). It's just heavy-handed references to Gnosticism with nothing else to it.
Xenoblade 1 has very little in the way of worldbuilding. The game doesn't even explain what exactly "Ether" is. There's no references to philosophy or religion outside of the aforementioned Gnostic theming.
If i'm wrong, feel free to correct me and point out examples of worldbuilding/philosophy in the game.

>Literally what you said retard
Literally not what I said retard.
>you find persona 1 complex
I find the persona creation specifically complex, how many times do I have to say it for it to pierce your thick skull?

Literally all of them.

Not Kingdom hearts

The point was that he wasn't even a fucking god. He was just a god damn human who happened to be in control when the simulation went off. He may have been the "creator" but he was just a man just as fallible as any other and if you're fallible then you're not a god. In 2 he even admits to having made mistakes. Christ it's not that hard to understand. And I said it was the best at it as in the best of the 3. That doesn't mean it's exactly a high standard. It explains the world, why it exists, the philosophies behind it, and the histories of it's inhabitants to some depth.

How about fixing American RPGs first?

If you classify religious texts as sci-fi then sure I guess

>literally just fuse two cards and choose the persona you want
persona fusion is only shit in 2, what the fuck are you talking about?

He was a creator but not a god, you fucking moron

Xenogears isn't a "let's kill god" plotline

He's a moron. Don't bother with him.

Half of the in-between stuff is world building and the other half sets up for the next expansion. Most of it is definitely not as strong as the expansion MSQ but it has some good parts so I don't mind it that much. It's definitely more bearable if you do it in small chunks instead of trying to blitz through all of it at once. It is an mmo though, that is a problem some people can't get past and I respect that.

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Tactic ogres

>religious texts
>he seriously believe Xenogears is actually referencing the Sefer a Zohar beyond namedropping it on top of its 2001 monolith expy

Xenobabies are too funny. I like this game but come on.
Do you also believe that Fei's MK Ultra programming was an accurate description of Freud's explanation of the human psychee? Takahashi loves naming his hackened concepts with other stuff to make them appear smarter

Muh 2deep4u jrpg.
Yeah it's not technically about killing god. It's about killing a supercomputer named after the Jewish god to free "the real god" because gnosticism is fun.

Anything involving the Hildebrands is admittedly some of the best stuff Square has put out in a long time.

TWEWY

>Muh 2deep4u jrpg.
>Yeah it's not technically about killing god. It's about killing a supercomputer named after the Jewish god to free "the real god" because gnosticism is fun.
And now the goal post moving starts. I'm done with you.

I'm not a huge fan of the slapstick comedy hildibrand stuff so it was pretty cool to see the naked meme man put on a suit and act as an adult for once.

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>literally just fuse two cards and choose the persona you want
>persona level
>affinities
>the sheer amount of move types and trying to cover all of them with skill inheritence
>skill inheritence
>fusing more than 2 personas
>accidents
>this is thrown at you all at once for the most part
There are way too many factors to keep track of and having multiple party members holding multiple personas trades off freedom by also having even more steps.

Both have shitty games and great games but I feel like big western studios tend to fuck up their own WRPG franchise.
>Fallout
>Bioshock
>Deus Ex Machina
JRPGs seem to be more consistent.

Jesus you're both really fucking mad.
The entire point of the Demiurge is that it is a prideful being that created the world and believes itself to be the only God, but it is actually imperfect, as a world created by a perfect being cannot be imperfect. That's literally Zanza/Klaus, and him being human before it just reinforces my point.
I will say that my "God is bad" statement was wrong and I should have thought it through more before posting, but the game still is little more than basic gnosticism with nothing else holding it together. I don't even hate the game, I like it a lot, I just think it's a terrible game to recommend to someone who wants deep philosophy and in-universe religion. Xenogears is far better for that.

Ehh I like the stuff with him. But I get where you're coming from.

>it's okay if we shit on catholicism as long as we precise that our "let's kill god" plotline wasn"t about killing a real god ahah
Yeah, don't bother

To be fair, Fallout got fucked up by Bethesda. Not the creators. Which Bethesda did a great job of fucking up TES too. Quite magnificently, might I add.

>JRPGs seem to be more consistent.
There hasn't been a good final fantasy game since X
It's been 18 years
Can you imagine?

There hasn't been a good final fantasy, period.

Low quality bait

There hasn't been a great "mainline" FF since 9. That said FF is ONE franchise. 1 franchise going bad doesn't somehow make the whole genre inconsistent.

For a low quality series

Hmm FF is one of the oldest franchises that remained turn base until 10.
There are some meh games here and there but they did consistently make decent turn base till 10.

>
>Hmm FF is one of the oldest franchises that remained turn base until 10.
>FF
>Turn based

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Its a shame because I did really like NV.

Ar tonelico

wot

What

NV was OK. Obsidian at least tried to keep the spirit of Fallout to some degree. What Bethesda did was just a complete shitshow.

There's exactly four games in the series that are turn based, most of the series isn't turn based.

It doesn't need fixing, just play kiseki games!

Mods, this nigger has lost his composure.

ahhhh is this because of atb?

Most consider ATB to be turn based.

Most consider Witcher games RPGs so the opinion of the masses is completely and utterly irrelevant.

Stop making westen RPGs