Better level design and stripped away all of those really dumb subsections of the game that break the flow of the game...

Thats actually pretty cool.

Jeane as a rival>Lumen Sage as a rival.

Grace and Glory are absolutely terrible to fight.

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Was there any truth to those "David Bowie" leaks?

>Enemies automatically break out of combos
It's a no from me.

Bayo 1: Hipster Slut
Bayo 2: Librarian Milf
Bayo 3: If she keeps the glasses, what options are left? Goth Nerd? Disinterested secretary?

The only thing bayo 2 has over 1 is that special weapons are now tied to the pistols.

Her defining power is dodge offset.

Dante cosplay

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Two Words: Chain Chomp

Nice trips, but what makes you say that? They are among my favorite enemies in the genre.

Yeah...nah.

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*takes your gameplay, mixes it up, refines it to near perfection and releases on multiple platforms*
*gets shoah'd from all digital platforms because lol licensing*

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>the only people who dont like this game are people who find these flaws bad
>and anyone who mentions these flaws are because a YT person said them and not because you have a functioning brain and can for your own opinions

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I mostly agree with you, but I about half the weapons are more fun in bayo1. Also there are more combos and a greater depth to the combat in 1. But if I had to choose what one to play, I'd still choose 2 simply because its level design is better and I like bayo's design better. If 3 had the level design of 2 but the combat from 1 I would be extremely happy. Umbran Climax i can take or leave.

How about this:
>Combat scoring is fucked; in 1 the combo score from your Wicked Weaves was the #1 focus, but in 2 Combo is easier to obtain but the time constraints are insanely tight, giving you less time to be freeform and experiment
>Lumen Sage fights are a clusterfuck as you cannot damage him most of the time but he can always damage you while slowing you down if he dodges you (which is likely at the pace of his fights); they have better spectacle than Jeanne's fights but are basically mashing until you dwindle his health
>Weapons ARE more interesting, but less fleshed-out; each is only about 2/3rds as complex as their 1 equivalent or even less explored (Chernabog has half the moves it feels like it should)
>The bow & arrow is useless, as much as I like it, and Takemikazuchi is only good when you Panther offset a full charge before running into a Verse
>All the flying bosses (which cut off half of your moves and give you limited movement range) are mediocre at best; the regular bosses are better than 1's regular bosses but the flying ones are as bad as 1's weakest (although Jubileus is by far the worst boss in the series thus far)
>Each difficulty is markedly easier than its counterpart in 1; 2's NSIC feels like 1's Hard.
>Enemy attack tells are WAY less pronounced
>Rosa, while cool, is so extreme in her design that you either delete everything in seconds or get BTFO in seconds
>Tag Climax is Wasted Potential 101: locking all those cool unique individual fights to only multiplayer (or with a bot fighting the same thing) is shit
>Rodin & Balder being playable ONLY in Tag Climax sucks because they're actually a lot more fun to play around with than the other alternate characters (Jeanne & Rosa)
>Link costume is busted because it lets you parry without using up one of your trinket slots; there's no reason to not be in that tunic if you're playing at the highest level
There, all while avoiding your two no-no terms.

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Did you play bayo 1 and 2 a lot? I thought I liked bayo 2 more before I finished bayo 1 on infinite climax and went on to play 2 on higher difficulties.

Bayo 1 gets better on Hard and even better on Infinite Climax, bayo 2 only gets worse.

Dante doesn't wear glasses

>Grace and Glory
are absolute cakewalks, are you retarded or do you mean Gracious and Glorious?

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Explain this to me because I have no autism

the only reason Kamiya didn't give Dante glasses like he gave Bayonetta is because he'd be way too fuckable

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I've completed both games on all difficulties normal and up, but I'm probably biased because I've mostly played bayo1 on ps3

The combat is worse in a whole lot of little ways that make Bayonetta 1's more fun.

>better boss fights
>bosses that you literally can't hit outside of witch time
uh no?
Enemies being designed around being forced to use witch time is a HUGE downgrade from the first game and a massive design flaw.

The tunic is in the first game now so I see that as a non-point, along with the complaints about the designs and the multiplayer. If I judged shit about multiplayer, then Doom 2016 is a 3/10 game.

1. Umbran Climax negates Torture Attacks each time. You are being wholly inefficient if you don't use UC over TA.
2. Witch Time is inconsistent, making the WT granted from a perfect parry useless.
3. Enraged enemies lack the finesse of their Bayo 1 counterparts.
4. Wicked Weaves that end in kicks are worth more than punches, discouraging experimental play.
5. Combo system is unknowable.
6. Magic gained from successful dodges is inconsistent.
7. Dodging enemies under the tight time limit to get a pure platinum requires the use of UC.
8. Jump cancelling is gone.

Can't believe I was considering getting a ps3 at one point. Dodged a bullet right there. Feels good to have played ninja gaiden 2 and bayo 1 the way they were meant to be played.

Bayonetta 2 is the prettier game but Bayonetta has the better more CONSISTENT gameplay

they're still both great games, and 99% of people don't give a shit about the changes in combat because 99% of people aren't autists who play the game more than once and bother to get anything but pure platinum

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What the fuck happened to her right leg?

My point is that Tag Climax shouldn't ALWAYS be multi-player. It should let you face the dozens of unique combat instances in it solo, just like the Witch Trials. The multiplayer mode where you compete to see who gets a better score is fine and in fact quite fun, but if I'm not playing with a friend I don't want a fucking AI partner killing enemies or getting in my way. Also, again, the two most fun characters in the game are locked to Tag Climax. Rodin & Balder should at LEAST be playable in the Witch Trials.

Bayo 2 is a very good game but it's not as good as its predecessor and Platinum has put out two games that iterate on Bayo 1's combat in more interesting and just plain better-designed ways.

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There are enemies in 1 that can be only damaged in Witch Time though, why is it a strike against 2 if it's a consistent element that was there even in harder enemies from 1?

NSIC disables WT in Bayo 1.

I don't think a W101 fag should dictate anything when it comes to talking about good gameplay.
>long, tedious battles that involves enemies that break up the flow of combat because they require a certain weapon or skill to put them in a damage state
>those beyond shitty puzzle segments
>BUT MADE BY KAMIYA AND MATTHEW LIKED IT

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>There are enemies in 1 that can be only damaged in Witch Time though
I guess you are thinking about the enemies on fire. You can damage them without witch time with wicked weaves and ranged attacks. You don't have to be up close to do combos in bayo. These enemies are there to make sure you are using dodge offset and charge properties of your weapons.

But that is wrong.
NSIC in bayo 1 disables witch time, while in 2 it stays active in that mode since it's literally required to fight certain enemies.

Dang she autistic lmao

We get it Kamiya. You like Space Harrier. No need to put and homage to it in every game.
Wonder if Scalebound would have had one.

Bros, less people are online on the wii u version. Am I gonna have to buy this on switch to get my tag climax on?

>shit bosses
>focussing on bayonetta's backstory AGAIN
>missions don't escalate in absurdity and spectacle like they did in the first game
>fun side characters are mostly absent

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Bayonetta 1 in terms of pure mechanics and gameplay probably best among all slashers, so when people complain about b2 being worser in that regard - fuck, its not perfect now but amazing, holy shit, how bad bro's, we should stop enjoy this game and all other things that get better, because we cant flex combo-mad like before.

It wouldn't

It'll be Afterburner.

How can I get into Bayo? I always try to give it a chance but shit like Witch Time and the retarded button mashing always pushes me away.

>>long, tedious battles that involves enemies that break up the flow of combat because they require a certain weapon or skill to put them in a damage state
The only enemy type that actually slows down the flow of a fight is the bipedal robot with multiple pieces of spiky armor that need to all be removed by Whip first; I'll give you them but all the others, even those that need certain Unite Morphs, are handled pretty quickly.
>>those beyond shitty puzzle segments
Plenty of options to do picture-in-picture if you mean the Gamepad sections, and I don't recall any complex or overly-long puzzles outside of them.
>>BUT MADE BY KAMIYA
I'm hardly a Kamiya fanboy; Bayo 1 is very good but I don't hail it up as much as many others do. Viewtiful Joe is good, never played RE2 or Okami. W101 is really his only game that I love.
>AND MATTHEW LIKED IT
Never watched that guy, only recognize the name from people mentioning it in action game threads.

Bayo 1's missile section was Afterburner with Space Harrier music and it was fucking awful. I love Afterburner and that sequence is worse than anything else in that game besides Jubileus by a mile.

Honestly the level design makes Bayonetta 2 MUCH easier to play for me than going back to 1. I don't care about small changes that I never noticed that much anyways, it's not like I'm making a fucking MADS video.

That's what I thought going into bayo 2. Can't be that bad, right? But it just doesn't feel as good to play, and they rub it in in the later chapters when they let you fight enemies from bayo 1. Finishing bayo 2 on Hard just made me want to replay bayo 1.

It wouldn't be so bad if he actually had enough talent to do a proper imitation of SH, as far as Bayo is concerned these section are boring mediocrity and take you out of the fun.

>Worse enemy designs that abuse the fuck out of parrying the player way too often
>Enemies lose tells when enraged when they did not in Bayonetta 1
>Umbran Climax severely imbalanced the Wicked Weave system
>Weaves are fucked for combo points to incentive you to Umbran Climax
>Weapons are less satisfying, Cheralbog feels incomplete, Tekumikazuhi feels weak unless you Offset charge before a fight, Alarune is a much more stuff Kulshedra with beefed up damage to compensate
>Lumen Sage is a fundamentally worse fight than Jeanne
>Witch Time is too big a factor in the combat, some enemies are nigh impossible to damage without initiating Witch Time first
>Inconsistent Witch Time durations compared to Bayonetta 1
>Bayonetta 1 was designed around Offset and not Witch Time, something 2 abandons completely and Witch Time is a factor in NSIC
>Witch Trials are much more imbalanced and much less satisfying than Angel Slayer

As much as I adore Bayonetta's design in 2, the game is fundamentally worse than 1 for anything other than a casual playthrough of Normal difficulty. But I guess some people enjoy objectively worse combat as long as they don't have to do Isla Del Sol.

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Don't mash in bayo. Every weapon has a charge property that activates when you hold down the attack buttons. Try it out with pistols.

Watch the first 10 minutes to see what bayo is all about:
youtube.com/watch?v=EwA5Hw3jC-0

So is bayo 3 gonna be when bayo's entire "sexy playful seductress" act is just a facade and she never had seen a penis in her life?

>can is worse cause the hardest.mode is slightly easier
I'll never understand Kamiya dickriders

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I meant mashing during the torture QTE's not in the actual combat. I'm not new to action games I love DMC but Bayo is just such a a huge miss for me every tome I play it.

Uhhh, how so?
There's a reason, ok...
...WHAT REASON?!
What do Y O U think? Noy yoshesque, not the others, Y O U .
Which ways?

You saying "it's good" or "it's bad" is the first step, the starting block,the intro. Your reasons & arguments are the content,the actual menu,the race,the point of interest,the selling point! Don't skip it otherwise it won't have any weight,or anything interesting & shouldn't be taken into account...

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I don't see how Torture attacks are a problem, but if you don't like it, don't play it.

Pirate Transformers Devastation. It's everything that makes Bayo's gameplay great with some cool additions and very little of the stuff that sucks.

>better overall boss fights
The flying battles are just as shit as the "giant" battles in the first game. Again, the only good bosses are 1 on 1 fights with someone your size.

Outside of the opening tutorialized verses, TA are not required for pure platinum.

>Multiple people have posted why 2 is worse
>you just ignore them
Great job pal.

If you think that's all the complaints amount to then it's no wonder you don't see why people like Kamiya's games. He gives a shit about how fun a game is to master, not just first impressions. Bayo might just be flashy button mashing shit to most people but that's not why some of us love it.

>An even sexier version of Sarah Palin
I really want news about 3 already

Bayonetta 1 has a harder difficulty setting that strips you of the slow motion dodge but lets you pull off everything else. It makes you time your basic dodges better or resort to countering
2's harder difficulties don't remove this because enemies are designed to break out of attacks when they want and some can't be hurt unless you activate the slow mo to deal hits before they run away

also 2 has its own gay minigame horseshit like the shitty rocket and motorcycle in the first game. mech shit and flying shit can fuck off with the gimped combat controls and worse movement

>Bayo 1 gets better on Hard and even better on Infinite Climax, bayo 2 only gets worse
This so much. The enemies during Bayo 2's infinite climax are so annoying to fight and the fact that they left witch time in, doesn't improve anything.

I can't believe there are people who prefer 1's final boss to 2's. I hated Jubilee, you just run inside a sphere and punch her hair. It's stupid.

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I prefer 2 and I like the hammer weapon a lot. would like a martial arts weapon where she just punches stuff

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Jubileus is more about the spectacle and finisher. Aesir is a pretty garbage fight compared to Masked Lumen/Balder and the way it ends is very weak.

god i hope we get bayo 3

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If I dont get Bayo 3 news next year im going to lose my fucking mind.

I agree with this assessment. The problem is, Umbran Climax is NOT her defining power but it becomes the entirety of Bayo 2.

>dodge offset
saying Bayonetta's defining "power" is dodge offset is like saying Dante's defining "weapon" is style switching. It's a game mechanic, it's not a part of the world or character design.

The game literally builds puzzles and narrative elements out of Witch Time. Even on NSIC (in Bayo 1) you still HAVE to use Witch Time to solve puzzles involving time-stop fountains and whatnot. The game never actually takes it away from you entirely because it can't. It just stops it from triggering in combat scenarios. That's a gimmick and it's bad.

you are a man of supreme taste. I like you.

So don't use Torture Attacks? What's the issue? I can already tell you want Bayonetta to be like DMC, I love both series but they are very different in their approach to gameplay. If you cannot or refuse to learn the Offset system you will not enjoy Bayonetta, plain and simple.

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Don't worry user. She'll be at the Game Awards again to surprise her with her beauty

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The Col. Killgore is an absolute beast against bosses.

Honestly my biggest gripe with Bayonetta 2 is the OST is fucking trash compared to the first game's.

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Never bothered with 2's NCIS, is it balanced around certain accessories like how 1 hard requires the parry accessory and NCIS requires it and the one that replaces witch time with an automated attack?

It's objectively much better than 1. The only halfway legit complaint is juggling is harder to pull of or even impossible without a certain augment. But 1. juggling is retarded and makes the games too easy anyway and 2. you can just use said augment.

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Now those multiple people just have to understand how to make an arctually substantiated claim.

Moon River is greater than every track(except for "You may call me father" and the final boss theme) in the 1st games OST.

Bayonetta is an omnipotent witch who doesn't need slomo to obliterate everything in her path.
>gimmick
Witch time is a crutch, it's a shortcut to free damage, and you don't need it anymore when you have learnt dodge offset.

The enemy design is tighter in 1. The enemies like Grace and Glory have more clear attacks and there's less enemies that guard and can only be broken with wicked weaves. Witch time in 1 is more a reward as opposed to being a requirement to damage enemies as well as being harder in general to pull off. 2's witch time window is so generous you just have to be in the general area of an attack when you dodge.

That said, I do like 2's overall design more. If only because it takes away those fucking QTEs that kill you that I keep forgetting about when they show up.

Nothing in "required" in Bayonetta 1 other than learning the Offset system. You can Pure Platinum NSIC in Bayonetta without Moon of Maaha Kaala. 2's NSIC is balanced around Witch Time and Umbran Climax like every other difficulty, all that really changes is enemies get beefed up damage.

>balanced around certain accessories
It's really not. Some accessories do help to ease you into Infinite Climax, but by all means they are not required.

youtube.com/watch?v=F6PSqW2IJeE

Really, how do you beat the fuckers on fire without taking so long that you get no score (using bullets) on NSIC without using the accessory that swaps out witch time for the bead attack?

Not at all. Moon River isn't even as good as Battle for the Umbra Throne or Riders of the Light.

worse combat than 1

woah that was easy

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Just like you beat any other enemy, by using charge properties and wicked weaves.

Using the beads is bad for your rank, it's another crutch to ease you into the absence of Witch Time.

In Bayonetta 1? Use Durga and switch your hands and feet to the fire mode. Twirl the right analog stick and hit punch or kick to switch between fire/lighting on hands and feet respectively.

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>>long, tedious battles
get better

And as usual Yea Forums, who pretends to be such an HAAARDCOOORE GAMER FUCK CASUALS, gets an epilepsy whenever actual competence is displayed

>better boss fights
yeah i love having any and all vertical combat stripped away from me in favor of slowly hovering side to side and waiting for the boss to take a shot at me so i can activate witch time and get a few hits in, taking turns like a fucking pokemon battle

You don't "need" it mechanically, but it's canonically a power she has. She can "slow down time" relative to herself. She does it in a tutorial mission. She does it in cutscenes. She does it to solve puzzles. The game spends forever hammering home that Bayonetta has the ability to manipulate the flow of time when her reflexes are "up" because she narrowly avoids damage; it's not just a game mechanic, it's a fucking plot device. It's an element of her character.

Taking it away entirely is retarded. It doesn't make sense.

>Tomorrow is Mine
>Moon River
>trash

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You can do combos in bayonetta from distance. The punches and kicks hardly deal any damage compared to what you can get our of charging weapons and wrapping it up with a wicked weave.

Just hold down the attack buttons when doing combos.

It makes perfect sense mechanically. Bayo opens up on Infinite Climax like no other game on the hardest difficulty. Not sure why you can't appreciate that.

You can still activate Witch Time in 1's NSIC, you just don't get it from dodges anymore. You get it from perfect parries, meaning you only activate when your own reflexes are maximized and otherwise the game keeps moving at full speed.

I’m saying the presentation sucks.

Why not make Bayonetta “get” Witch time, with the clock effect and the rain drops suspended in midair and all that, but make the enemies move at normal speed anyway? That doesn’t make the player feel like they’re fucking up, it doesn’t feel arbitrary, it feels like “OH SHIT NIGGER GRACIOUS AND GLORIOUS ARE AS FAST AS I AM OH FUCK”

NSIC just makes all enemies “as fast as Bayo”. It doesn’t remove a mechanic (really), and while it functionally eliminates the safety advantage, it presents nicer. As a bonus it also makes NSIC scoring more consistent by giving you the bonus for a perfect dodge without making the enemy stationary. And/or it enables you to do things like, say, allow you to use the Witch Time effect to alter how juggles work (make air suspended enemies fall more slowly) while still leaving threats operating at full speed.

Hell, the Witch Time tutorial mission even makes this a canonical enemy ability, when the enemies you’re fighting on the broken freeway chunk “shaking off” the effect and getting their reflexes up to Bayo’s speed.

Hi, we have had this conversation before, and it's not going anywhere. Have a nice day, bye.

Bayonetta you're a mystery...

Bayonetta becomes more a milf every entry. How long until she achieves peak ara ara?

I'm giving the first one a shot, but I'm already tired of dying to random shit like falling into lava because the camera didn't bother showing it or split-second QTEs. Does it get better later on?

Everything is better in 2, it even creates the illusion that it is easier when in reality it's just that much more responsive.

I mean, I'll take anything over those cancerous quick-time events.

You can avoid damage from lava floor if you equip fire claws.

When you're replaying the game qte's stop being a problem since you already know what's coming.

Bayo is a virgin. She just does all that shit for show

for now

>Bayo is a virgin
if she and Jeanne ain't fucking I'll eat a wicked weave

a woman with those many evil powers has to be straight

Tomorrow is Mine > Mysterious Destiny
Moon River > Fly Me To the Moon

Bumpan

Bayo is a very CANON non-virgin. And Jeanne very much is one.
Look it up, it is something the director himself had to explain.

who's the lucky guy/girl who got wrapped in between those legs?

Manga Bayo is always cuter than actual Bayo, why is that?

>enraged enemies have their audio cues and the brighter visual cues as well taken away from them
Game is worse based on this alone. But since that's not enough, the boss fights are also worse. Taking away the forward and backwards directions in favor for that janky "flying" was a horrible mistake, shit was garbage in the end of 1 when you have to punch out the statue of Jubileus and it's even more garbage when it's the central of multiple boss fights.
Dodge offsetting is heavily less important because of how frequently enemies will just evade.
>inb4 but they sometimes evaded in bayo 1 too
IIRC, the only enemies that will dodge a wicked weave are Grace/Glory when they're hit airborn, Jeanne, and Balder. You can still consistently nail them if you hit them in the right time. In comparison to fuckers like the Masked Lumen, who will dodge without question if you're not in WT. I still do not understand why people will try to argue that any ML fight is better than Jeanne fights, let alone Jeanne fucking 4, one of the best in the genre.

I also don't get why people are trying to say bayo 2's ost is better claiming moon river/tomorrow is mine > fly me to the moon > mysterious destiny while ignoring all of the other tracks either game offers.

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Never said. He simply said that that mole in Bayo's face is a sign of having lost her virginity. Jeanne is a proud umbra princess so her chastity is important to her. Apparently this has roots in medieval superstitions regarding witches.

Gracious and Glorious are, Grace and Glory are not that bad, though they are pleb filters indeed.

Mapped controls fucking blow, making the game way harder than it should be, but it's a japanese designed game so it's always a fucking given that they fuck up the controls somehow

Witch time is inconsistent because fights are inconsistent, enemies have no set attack patterns because they very the speed of their attacks they do, a sword swipe that came fast suddenly comes slow the next time because the best way to have fun in a brawler is not having any idea what your opponent is doing as they gang up on you

The excuse given to cover up both oversights is "Oh you have infinite continues stop bitching" when lots of games before and prior did combat far better, from Devil May Cry to Metal Gear Rising and Transformers Devastation, even Nier Automata combat is leagues ahead of this games

Combat even in itself feels clunky, nothing seems to flow as combo's consist of stop/go/stop/go/stop flow attacks, honestly feels like I'm playing a far faster version of monster hunter than a brawler

The music is lackluster, the graphics/settings are ok and the story is terrible. Is this everything you wanted to hear about a game series user and why it's been forgotten so quickly?

Gracious and Glorious are there to prepare you for Infinite Climax. Also, when they are paired with other enemies you can get WT off of those.

Punch Kick Punch combo to hit them with a fast Wicked Weave while keeping your distance.

All he said about the mole is that it appears after witches experience an important life event, he never stated that such event was losing their virginity. Bayonetta's mole could have appeared after she performed her pact with Madama Butterfly for all we know.

I really wish Jeanne wasn't so cakey.