Why don't open world's have real scale? Everything is always so close or small. Mountains just appear...

I know what you are but what am I?

you are a faggot, I already told you retard

Daggerfall was basically to scale
Ghost Recon Wildlands feels to scale

Neither of them benefit from having large open worlds

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Playing Greedfall at the moment. Its world isn't amazingly designed, but I do like that semi open world approach. You get a decent sized map, which is just a small piece of the area you're in. One problem with open worlds is that the world feels tiny. Skyrim can be crossed in half an hour, Liberty City is just a small town. This approach that Greedfall and Dragon Age Origins does is better in my opinion, as it still makes the country/province/"world" feel larger and more realistic.

Hub-based worlds are much better for this reason. Take Baldur's Gate for example. The world you play in is just small slices of the larger world. As opposed to Skyrim where you can throw a football from one town to another.

This. Large open cells are preferable to entirely open worlds.

Why do people want to replicate real life in video games so much? Don.t they real e have many negative sides to it?

I think that's because game developers are not gamefying space traversal well enough. I'm actually quite excited about Death Stranding because it is an actual "walking" sim, that makes walking a challenging gameplay feature. Running is a fun activity IRL, so there's nothing stopping it from being a fun gameplay mechanic.

Because then the people in the peanut gallery will complain about how empty it is. Personally, I think a Open World that's vast, rather than dense, can be done well when the gameplay complements it like it did in Breath of the Wild. I strongly hope that Death Stranding will be the same.

because that's boring as fuck unless you are an actual neet with nothing but free time and a heavy dose of autism

Because I don't want to spend 2 months trekking over an empty mountain in my video game.

Oh fuck off, you have no idea how badly made is wildlands' own map.

Ghost Recon Wildlands did this really well with huge, realistic feeling geographical features, but too bad that the actual gameplay in it is just ultra-repetitive poor man’s MGS V.

The only game I know that utilizes massively open world maps well is Arma, and even then it's entirely dependent on the community and mission makers.
>arma communities are terrible
You just gotta find the right one.

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>that
>scale
Let me show you some real scale.
Games should have "see that distant star? You can travel to it" -scale. Botw is trash.

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Play daggerfall then

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mountains are way too big

Because no one wants to play walking simulator

you know joke people do right now "empty world" just image what kind of jokes you;d have in a world that is actually 90% empty and useless.

my feet hurt
the sun is too bright
they gave me american rifle instead of kalashnikov again
I wish I was at home playing with my loli bride

>GTA V

But GTA V's map is super small AND empty.

>I think BOTW did it well sometimes.
BOTW was one of the absolute worst offenders. The world is huge but it feels way smaller than it is thanks to the poor scaling.
Pic related is a much better example of scaling within the Zelda series.

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takbir brother

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>taking 3 hours to go from one point to another
>fun
Pick one

Well building a world to scale would in most cases put it in the simulator category.
Every to scale game I've played has actually just been various simulators.

>that makes walking a challenging gameplay feature.
This.
It isnt even just walking, its any traversal means, games keep making it easier and easier, and basic.
Just Cause while making it easier did make it a lot more interesting with the parachute, and later games with the wingsuit.
And when devs keep making bigger maps with nothing on them (although empty space by itself isnt outright bad, like in Mad Max) they dont really make navigating that empty space fun (again, Mad Max did that right)

Because people get bored easily and don't want actual huge open worlds, they want theme parks where you only have to walk for 30 seconds before finding some bullshit to do.

>Running is a fun activity IRL
Lol no it isn't, everyone who jogs or trains for marathons runs around with earbuds blasting music/podcasts to deal with the boredom.

Prerelease cope

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BORING

Which kind of brings up the whole Eurotruck Simulator phenomenon. The whole game on paper sounds boring as fuck yet people play it quite a bit because it's comfy and you can just fire up radio stations/podcasts while you're playing it.

we got an avalanche fan over here
dont worry i like their games too

Yes, running is a stimulating to me, but pressing a button and watching a video game character move across ground is not stimulating or entertaining in any manner. Traversing a difficult and clever, well-crafted and multi-layered environment is really fun in a video game. Traversing a world with large distances is not. I'm glad many developers still value quality over quantity.

BOTW was really fun at times but the worst parts were the ones where you were just running across an endless field or climbing up a grey wall and staring at the stamina meter. BOTW and FFXV are the only games where I've browsed my phone and eaten sandwiches during active gameplay. Quantity-centric traversal just isn't stimulating in any manner or form.

What kinda basic chimp wants to just walk around? It's a brain dead activity unsuitable for men of intelligence and logic.

because the design philosophy of an Open World game is that there should always be something happening within 30 secs. Witcher 3 did this and BOTW did this too

Try Kenshi, 780km2

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new vegas was small and tight wtf

Running is fun because it literally pumps pleasant chemicals into your brain, hence the runner's high thing.
Doing that on a video game is not the same thing.

Go play Arma 3

go get some Onions and take a walk
fucking idiot

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MGSV did it decently.

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fuccking this. I was on deployment once and trust me it is fucking boring walking or running for an hour+ with no music or anything.

How would you translate fun coming from physical exercise such as running or lifting weights into fun gameplay mechanics?

That is pseudo open world. Really it just has a few wide areas with connecting tunnels(roads) to tie it together. It's much smaller than it appears.

How is that dude planning to cross a terrain like that without proper shoes?

Dangerous terrain like crevices, rivers, mountains, dynamic weather, having to avoid enemies and vehicles you get in Death Stranding like the hoverboard and motorcycle.

>You should have to spend literally years irl time before you can get somewhere

are any of you faggots actually reading his post?

Has a ridiculously huge map and you can fly to see how just how massive the map is

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no hipster sky is a good one with scale

Wait for Death Stranding bro

Perhaps but it still takes a solid 10 minutes to cross.

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>le argument from fun

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I sure loved Fuel
youtube.com/watch?v=HhyyUiYQolA

Death Stranding is exactly that

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I like where this is going

FUEL was a shitty racing game. No nitros and no sense of speed.

I would believe you if you said this is a screenshot from MGSV TPP. It's getting really hard to tell video games from mid res photos

You might be on the spectrum.

Yeah it's not bad, but doesnt fit what OP was going for (I'm guessing.)
If MGSV counts then something like ARMA 3 would too. It's to scale but only a couple KM wide on most maps. Been a while since I played so I forget exactly how big.

Yeah, tiny map with boring hills instead of mountains.

Just Cause 2 had a full scale island map. If you actually walked anywhere it would have taken forever.

Obviously I'm talking about the pc version, consolepeasants are not meant to read or answer my post

Try walking everywhere irl instead of using your car or whatever transport is available and you might understand. Most "big" games aren't bigger than a decently sized neighbourhood yet they can still feel big enough if you can't zip around in it.

RDR 2 did it pretty well

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Yes? He's trying to claim that you can capture the same physical pleasure you can get from running in a video game, which is impossible because of the way our brain chemicals work. Sure you can make it 'fun' to do but that has nothing to do with the same pleasure you get from doing a physical activity.

I heard that game is much more linear than the first.

It was so fun to head off into the wilderness to hunt

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It feels more like a theme park than anything.

>tiny map
>at least half as big as daggerfall
ok retard

for dumb casuals like you

>Boredom
Confirmed for retarded obese neet
listening to music it help your mental state push through the pain and keep going, not because you need something to keep yourself entertained while running
Let me guess, your fat nigger ass once ran on a treadmill at low speed? You should go run up and down a steep fucking hill all day, see how bored you are

simply because games are nowhere near close enough technology wise for that. All but procedural generation gives you maps smaller than most cities. The tech simply isn't there.

Go back to making your new game, Kojima.

>Projecting this hard
Yikes dude

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And how am I projecting so hard?
By calling a liar a liar?
Neck yeself faggo

I've gone on long walks in real life just to look at pretty views and I like doing the same in games like Witcher.

I don't give a shit about the wilderness but I want a realistic city instead of just 10 houses or copypasted assets

The problem with open world maps nowadays is too much nature. Yes, this sounds counter-intuitive, but with current technological limitations natural environments end up significantly more same-y in video games after a certain scale than with real life. There's only so many tree models developers can copy+paste everywhere. A good open world is one with a good balance of natural and urban environments/towns

A marathon isn't a sprint, you're not pushing yourself to your muscles limit. Maybe you haven't tried long-distance running but I have, and if you're running 10km over an hour on a near-daily basis it gets pretty fucking boring.

>push through the pain
it's fucking jogging my dude, you really are a fat fuck

>push through the pain
>running
Who's the fatass here? Projecting much, dude?
If you're in pain when running and have to force yourself to continue, you are the fat one. It's commendable that you run (if anything), I'll give you that, but don't apply your same fat ass american logic to normal people.

It's still a strenuous physical challenge that fatigues the shit out of you, and forces you to dig deep, that is not boredom you fuckhead

If you don't force yourself to continue running I can tell you do not go running you retarded faggot
A half hour jog on a fucking treadmill doesn't count for fucking dogshit

It is boredom, it's a repetitive activity over an extended period that requires no mental involvement, you're zoning out if you do it long enough, whether or not your muscles are aching.

>If you don't force yourself to continue running I can tell you do not go running you retarded faggot
If your body is hurting when you're running, you're doing it wrong. Lose some weight first, otherwise you're going to fuck up your knees and shins.

>It's literally impossible to find running boring, if you find running boring you probably never ran in your life and you're fat!!
Are you literally autistic?

Death Stranding

It's not enjoyable or interesting, but when you get you're pushing yourself up your 6th steep incline in 25 degrees it become a mental battle to keep your legs going, it is not a boring time of zoning out, or you're not pushing yourself enough
People who think running isn't hard just aren't, they're not going enough distance at enough pace in enough of a strenuous environment, which is the point of bettering yourself
If what you're doing is without effort and concentration it is not enough, and getting your runners high is a rush, it is anything but dull

Because then you'd be walking or driving for hours at a time, even going from place to place within a fairly small town would probably take ten minutes. The illusion of scale is better than actual scale.

I hate zoomers so fucking much please stop ruining the industry

lol
you have no idea how bodies work

It has nothing to do with tech you dopey fuck, handcrafting a realistically sized world would take immense time and manpower, not even rockstar has the resources to do that. Your only options are procedurally generated garbage, or a smaller scale map

epic response ameribro!

Nobody wants to spend 10 hours walking across empty space to get from town to town. You people are morons

>implying this is a problem when every last modern open world game lets you quick travel, even GTA

I wish I was back home with my sheep.

>cry for realistically spaced map
>never use it

I wish some more superhero games would come out.
I like going around the place with superpowers, especially flight but that one is fairly rare.

>Skyrim can be crossed in half an hour
really? if I had to guess I would have said less than that. that's almost kind of impressive. unfortunately skyrim breaks up its terrain with so many hills that you never actually see anything truly distant. when I first saw shots of Oblivion without fog where you can see all the way across the land I was blown away. but unlike shit like ghost recon or MGS5 it has to be a "lived in" world, not barren terrain with a few "outposts" or whatever. fuck that. also add skyrim to that list, the towns are even smaller than oblivion's. at least oblivion had imperial city. skyrim had nothing.

I don't advocate for quick travel personally (my solution are quick, fun movement systems) but it's a fact that all modern open world games have quick travel, therefore "tedious travel" can't be the industry's reason to keep making this small worlds.

There is exactly zero advantage to having a massive empty open world. Ubisoft keeps doing this and I keep not buying their games. One of the biggest drawbacks of MGSV was the fact that there were two maps and both of them are a chore to traverse because there's next to nothing to do. Ground Zeroes is so much better in this regard.

It's infinitely better to have a condensed world with far more detail a la Mankind Divided.

sounds like that will be lots of random generation to get to the mountain walking is boring op

Arma and Kingdom Come: Deliverance have 1:1
real world scale

Having just completed Metro Exodus I'm convinced that a linear series of large levels with side-activities (but a main mission structure) connected by a hub location will always beat a massive open world approach

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>every last modern open world game lets you quick travel

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What's wrong with point to point fast travel as opposed to anywhere to point?

There are huge sections of RDR2's map you can't fast travel to or from.

We don't need huge open worlds. We need smaller, more densely packed hub areas. That way you can "fast travel" without having to feel like you missed anything.

In modern rockstar games, there's 2 games. The open world sandbox fun part, and the linear story driven part that sucks joy out of the air.

>runs around with earbuds blasting music/podcasts
Thats their loss that they are unable to live in the "Now" as oppose to the past.

BOTW did it fine.
Some Metroidvania's occasionally have good movement upgrades.
Another one is that you spend the first hour with somewhat horrid movement, but then get a movement upgrade. If its a bad game, the first hour will be a horrid tutorial. If its a good game, the first hour will be a cool area where you feel somewhat weak.

It can be accompanied by some more upgrades and cool shit.
Maybe even finding some items and some radical cool cutscenes as your character gets ripped.

>Thats their loss that they are unable to live in the "Now" as oppose to the past.

Yes, yes, kids these days etc etc. The point is that the activity of running from point A to point B by itself is not interesting, if you build a game where major component is simply crossing distances without enemy encounters or stealth sections then the players will get bored of it.

>if you build a game where major component is simply crossing distances without enemy encounters or stealth sections
What a narrow mind user has
No spectacle?
Architecture?
Parkour?
NPCs?
Lost Woods mazes?
Timelapse?
I pity you.

driving trucks is fun because you're ripped on amphetamines the entire time

>No spectacle?
>Architecture?
>Parkour?

What you're describing is platforming. Yes, platforming can be very exciting if the levels are designed well and it's treated like a puzzle. Mirror's Edge was very fun for it.

The problem is that it demands well-designed, linear platform sections. That's the exact opposite of the massive scale open worlds the OP is talking about. Linear levels playtested by level designers gives us Mirrors Edge platforming, massive open-world go-anywhere design gives us Assassins Creed "hold X to parkour" free traversal, which takes away all the excitement of platforming.

>The problem is that it demands well-designed, linear platform sections.
And again your narrow mind shows. Essentially platforming is problem solving of getting to A to B, but without the problem solving. Instead it focuses on mechanical tightness, or maybe it has none and is just about spectacle.
Meanwhile if the game has some decent mechanics, something as simple as climbing the Sixteenth Chapel might turn into a amazing challenge. The same could be said of breaking out of the streets to reach roof level, when there is no obvious staircases to do so.

Meanwhile your description also fails to capture Assassins Creed: A series about very good gameplay, no real stealth, but instead has turned into a spectacle simulator.

Death Stranding is doing that and people here all shit on it.

Mirror's Edge was also fast-paced, half the time you were running away from people with guns rather than moving at your own leisurely pace. Pacing is the big thing that determines whether people are emotionally invested or if they're checking out and playing on autopilot.

platforming / moving around the world was fun in AC up until Brotherhood. ever since AC3 the platforming has SUCKED which is why AC got so boring, which is why the AC devs are so desperate to make it a RPG. they think skinner box addiction triggers are needed to keep players interested for an entire ~10 hour campaign. they're so far removed from understanding FUN that they switched genres entirely.

I have rarely felt emptier than after playing AC3 and Unity for even just an hour at a time. couldn't finish either game.

Assassins creed origins and odyssey.

Don't bother. That's just the fatasses trying to justify their fatass behavior.

Do you think the Tora Bora complex actually existed?

games should be fun
empty open world is not fun

Just cause 4 did something like that, but then again the half the point of those games is the wingsuit/flying mechanics

>t. That POG who got lost on the way to the chow hall

pic related is JC4 map compared to GTAV map

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AC has static platforming with little to no player input.
Half the problem is that climbing isn't as much a mechanic as its finding predefined footholds.
The other half is that there is less and less gameplay the further into the series you go. So when you play Odyssey the only gameplay left is sailing and spectacle.

If climbing/movement actually had gameplay, it could be a amazing series.

That's the JC2 map

>why don't people want to walk 5 hours in between missions?
Gee I dont know OP that's a real puzzler

oh yeah

well they're about the same size so the point still stands

Soon

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>Half the problem is that climbing isn't as much a mechanic as its finding predefined footholds.
This used to be how it worked and it was okay. They could have tweaked it and made more of the idea. But instead they automated it to the point that you now just hold forward to go up, basically. There was some clunkiness to certain holds in AC1 and I suppose playtesters told them that but the response to automate away the entire process so you don't even have to look at what you're doing is just so overboard. In AC Unity climbing a tall building comes down to holding up and tapping the A / X button every once in a while for larger gaps between holds.

the lesson from AC1 and 2 was to make it less repetitive and to not require so much mandatory climbing, for instance by not forcing you to climb hundreds of samy towers just to open up the minimap.

instead they continue to pad the game's length with more mandatory climbing than ever and it's even more boring than before. the people working on AC are hands down the worst game designers in the industry, even worse than the ones responsible for the Far Cry series. Ubisoft has some horrible designers but the ones who continue to shit all over AC's core formula take the cake for sure. don't get me started on the combat system.

Climbing has replaced platforming, and thats a bad thing

RDR2 is really small scale, even smaller than RDR1 in places

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Are you trying to say something user? All I see is a post made out of white noise, to mimick saying something meaningful.
Instead it denies you the ability to formulate proper words and opinions.

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>Americans
>Walking

Choose one.

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I think he means going up, down and along walls by holding the analog stick in the direction you want to go has replaced running and jumping on horizontal surfaces to some degree.

PoP 2008 has the best AC gameplay

If he was a honest and well spoken individual i guess he could speak of Tomb Raider. Where tank controls and good acrobatic moveset turns it into a amazing 3D platformer with tank controls.
I do miss good platforming in 3D action games. This decade it seems only Japfucks keep doing them.

BotW of all games could have done so much more due to the setting whereas a game like Metro is obviously limited in that regard. Considering how much BotW could have done, it didn't do particularly well.
>no trains
>no kayaks down the river
>no catapult to throw yourself across the map
>no ziplining
>no bobsleigh
>no bird transport