Could communism or socialism work in the elder scrolls universe?

Could communism or socialism work in the elder scrolls universe?

Attached: 1463348485_Map_tamriel.jpg (1024x768, 894K)

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=2aV6rso2l0I
youtube.com/watch?v=0XxYwWg7F8I
youtube.com/watch?v=xqXAW2snGMI
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Communism cannot work under any system, because it makes the false assumption that all work is equal in value.

Khajiits and argonians would take all the gibs and do nothing but do moonsugar

no it fucking doesn't lol

it does in the sense that all should be rewarded the same

Well it sure doesn't work in our universe! Dohohohoho!

It literally does, retard.

communism IS... a nipple...

Capitalism works because it takes into account that people in general are greedy dicks who only get shit done when given adequate incentive. Communism fails because it assumes people will be happy working for the sake of working. The concept of "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" is what society was built on.

Communism and socialism can work well in small scale communities. So it is possible to have a small group practice it in the elder scrolls universe. It however would not work well for any nation of people similar to humans. Not sure if the beastfolk or mer would be willing to work in such a system.

Argonian society is already magic tree socialism.

I don't care for the Argonians.

Considering that its a video game world that operates on video game logic its basically whatever the designers loosely endorse.

Given the world is innately plentiful and wrought with incredible dangers, the necessity of socialized systems may not be tenable do to constant threat of spontaneous entropy much like how agriculture is impossible in some parts of the world due to rampaging wildlife or environmental conditions.

The Elder Scrolls universe is a land of extremes. Even the moderating influence of a spanning benevolent empire does little to cull back the worst of it. The necessity of Communism or Socialism is more reflective of addressing the needs of a real world with real life limitations and finite resources.

>Some people are lost causes and better off discarded from the collective.

But isn't it possible that those people are only lost causes because they're seen as such and don't get any help because of it? A self-fulfilling prophecy, maybe? I don't think anyone is born a lost cause.

This is very much the truth. Though i would say that current capitalism is getting closer and closer to a closed oligarchy than actual capitalism at this point.

yeah it only works in fantasy

You ARE... a dickhead...

>closer to a closed oligarchy than actual capitalism
Isn't that the natural evolution of capitalism, though?

Yeah like all white people. all innately greedy selfish individuals should be culled for capitalism to work.

THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION BELONG TO THE NORDS

It doesn't matter WHY they are a lost cause. It matters THAT they are a lost cause.

I know it isn't fair but I don't care.

Are NIGGERS a lost cause?
Speak more of the NIGGERS.

The goal of communism is the abolition of the state, currency, and class. If some labor was valued over others, what functional difference would there be? Communism must be accepted by the working class to succeed, and so far, only rich, white-collar, or spoiled non-workers are the only people that push for it.

You not born a lost cause you choose to become one. Society needs programs in place to give everyone a foot in the door but no more and no less. Living off the generosity of others and paying back nothing in return is simply wasting resources.

Everyone should have the chance at an education and a chance at success if they put fort the effort. Fail to do so and you starve. Literally any basic and honest attempt to help society should be rewarded with at least a semi comfortable life. If you want to sit on your ass and collect welfare for popping out 12 kids from 12 gullible assholes to collect free child support and welfare you can fuck right off.

youtube.com/watch?v=2aV6rso2l0I

Yes, in fact it could only work in Tamriel because in order for communism to work you indeed need magic. :^)

communism doesnt the work because of sodium hydroxide deficiency in modern diets
assbrain

You're painfully stupid. You also didn't post a meaningful argument.

bet you like willy

>communism, a system that tries hard to ignore human nature
>elder scrolls, a series where nobody acts like a real human being

Attached: 1551938800023.jpg (184x184, 13K)

Some are sure.
You don't want me in charge because I would cull the top and bottom 10% of the populace.
Treat it like a forest. A little fire to clear the old growth and the underbrush to make way for new growth.

why only 10%

Shut the fuck up, faggot.

>culling your wealthy and your intelligent for "new growth"

Attached: 1562102529217.jpg (570x712, 91K)

Only in orc strongholds

This man was bald, and incompetent

I was talking more on an economic scale not intellectual.
Though I will make an exception for tenured professors. They tend to be useless humans.

Ah, so you are an "eat the rich" faggot

I will shoot you

Yeah bro, cull all the people that actually work. It worked wonders for Zimbabwe

>communism is deeply flawed
>say this
>everyone circlejerks it endlessly

>capitalism is also deeply flawed
>say this
>everyone acts like someone just shit on their mother's grave

Can someone explain this doublethink to me?

based

While I applaud you enthusiasm 10% is enough for now.

Hey, leave him alone... "Mao!"
He was just "China" make a better world.

no you wouldn't

Oh no no no.
I want the bottom 10% culled as well.
Create room for growth while clearing away the human detritus as well.

Only one of those gets millions of people killed by famine within a decade.

Attached: 1568018064167.jpg (1024x731, 126K)

You might get away with brutalizing the poor, but I will shoot you

You don't know me.

Well to begin with we most accept that no system can satisfy the needs of everyone or make everyone happy

I doubt you make the top 10%. You will be safe.
Stay out of the way as I am doing this for you.

I know that you ARE... a faggot.

WHA-...
HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT?!

because at this very moment you are profiting heavily from cap, not from com

What if I was violently raped with a baseball bat, though?
Capitalism would literally be RAPING ME.

well that's why i keep a handful of dirt up my ass

Considering you're typing on Yea Forums while being raped violently by a baseball bat, I would assume you enjoy it and should be thanking capitalism

Capitalism has generated untold suffering, death, and war. It incentivizes these things. It is currently the driving force behind global warming. When 8 billion people die because a couple thousand wanted to get mega-rich who will be left to shitpost the Pepe's?

I'm not profiting I'm blue collar.

For me it's you won't be rich if you flip burgers but at least don't fucking starve to death or be homeless because you can't afford anything
We are different and not everyone it's going to be a entrepreneur or some shit

Communism simply cannot ever work with actual entities that make decisions being any part of the equation.
Even your computer doesn't run tasks evenly, even it chooses which is higher priority than others and allocates resources unevenly to accomplish its goals.

Most capitalists would rather let the world burn than consider any alternatives. It's hopeless

I'm pretty sure beast folk are commies also the dwemer were commies

>I'm not profiting I'm blue collar.
I know plenty of blue collar workers who having savings, 401k, stocks, and property. In fact, skilled laborers like electricians can make serious bank once you are a journey man.

The real communists like me know that people is just too stupid and cause problems because they are poor

Capitalism is just acting like nature. If you don't work you die. If you work with others you have an even better chance. One farms, the other builds, the other hunts.

Communism trying to take out the money aspect. But that takes out the nature survival aspect. Now THAT'S how you get leeches.

Argonians follow the Hist and have a stratified culture. Khajiit with the Great Manes.
Some have more than others even among the mud races.

You're being hysterical, eat a plum, you stupid fucking faggot.

Bro Communist nations both past and present used and use far dirtier sources of energy than modern capitalist countries. And what wars or suffering has capitalism generated exactly?

Attached: 1568015566316.jpg (1920x1080, 199K)

If you work at flipping burgers you'll die

Communism's expressed reason for existing is to internally destroy the stability of a nation to rubble, with the hopes of rebuilding something better.
We've never once gotten to the "with hopes of rebuilding something better" phase. Not once.
Why idiots think it is anything aside from dedicated abject destruction at this point is beyond me.

Free market is a Jewish plot to genocide the pure races and mutt the whole world

Not with the (((high elves))) running everything.

Imperials are the liberals of tamriel also the biggest cuckolds

no because all races will starve

I'm manual labor not skilled.

Funny you bring them up though. Know these skilled laborers you mentioned? Electricians? Plumbers? Welders? Know why they make money good money and have 401ks? Unions. AKA socialism in a capitalist setting. Becoming a journeyman is part of the union process. It's not something that would exist in a complete capitalist environment.

part of a free market is you can choose not to interact with the mutt portions of it. Squeeze them out of the system using the free market.

>Capitalism has generated untold suffering, death, and war.
Meme, capitalism is behind the period of most prosperity in all of human history, and the fastest rate of technology improvement we've ever seen thanks to the process of creative destruction.

If capitalism has generated untold suffering, death, and war, it still has generated far less than any other systems.

Not if they are forced to live with you
Ruin the 3rd world shitholes so they go to the west and ruin everything there instead of helping fix those shitholes
3rdworlders are fucking stupid they can't do it themselves

Bruh, basically everyone with a stem degree is in the top 10%

Maybe 100 years ago, but that is not the case anymore with labor laws. But it depends on the state now. In the south, unions are nothing more than staffing agencies that coexist with private contractors. In the north, unions are literal mobs that force private contractors away. This is only for electricians so I don't know about other skilled labor unions.

And your premise is wrong. Cashiers at Publix or Kroger are in a union, but they make absolute shit PLUS they have to pay dues to a union that doesn't do anything for them. Electricians make bank not because of a union, but because they are skilled. Maybe if you get a skill instead of being a leech on society you would make bank too?

Do like the mutts and exclude them from feeling at home in their own home until they leave.
I feel like you aren't talking hypotheticals anymore, in that case move to a nicer area and embrace a Home Owners Association even with all the negative trappings.
I complain about my 120/month bill for the HOA but have lived here for 20+ years and no darkies have ever made it past the candidate phase.

No

If that is your career you deserve it.

You really need to touch up on your American history. The Spanish-American war of 1890 is commonly referred to as "the war to sell newspapers", manufactured conflict. There are countless other examples spanning our history of shit like this. And what "far" dirtier sources of energy are you referring to? Here in America we use oil and we burn coal. We frak up our natural gas. That's pretty much as dirty as it gets. No commie is using something worse. Just the same shit we do.

The past isn't relevant in any case as no one knew in the past the full extent of what burning these fuels would do. They were just burning fuel. We fucking know better now and are a fully developed nation. We should be looking to the future.

Attached: 1562193151117.gif (1280x720, 1.23M)

If they gotta go they gotta go.

It's the exactly opposite though. Communism would be in the self-interest of most people (ie the working class). Capitalism being all about self-interest is a meme. If it was people wouldn't put up with poverty wages making some kike richer.

If the end result is complete annihilation then does the speed matter?

I'll refer you to my original post.

Communism is only in the self interest of those that failed at life.
Sucks to be them.

No it stipulates that people should get rewarded for the actual value they produce instead of some leech stealing it.

lmao you guys fall for it way too easily
i'm totes reposting this thread next week

>t-that isn't real communism! we haven't seen real communism yet!

Attached: 1518760563996.jpg (988x1059, 160K)

Like welfare and food stamps?

You not allowed to have self interests that go against society in communism. Which is ironic considering that you are allowed to spout your commie nonsense in order to tear down societies of non communism.

>capitalism didn't even exist until like the 1700s
>it's just the natural order bro

OK. The best place to discuss politics is Yea Forums and the best place to discuss TES is /pol/ so I am fine with that.

communism doesn't belong in any reality

The more respectful with the environment countries are all developed, capitalist countries.

That's just how the laws of nature have worked since the dawn of time. Plus nobody will actually die since there are so many programs to help these people so it's like laws of nature on easy mode. Also notice how homeless people are usually legitimately dumb? Nature has had a way of weeding these people out and so we are emulating that success.

>chat with internet commie
>they either dont work or have never set foot in a factory

Really activates my neurons

Is there anything more pathetic in all of existence than a pinko parasite?

>totes
Faggot

His original post is correct. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" Communism recognizes that all work isn't equal but each individual can only provide whatever it is they can provide and that's why things need to be redistributed.

Which makes a lot of sense. The redistributing part is where things seem to get sticky as the redistributor never seems to have everyone's best interest at heart. Capitalism is pretty much the same thing but with individual mandate regarding choice and if your needs are met or not fuck you.

>chat with an internet capitalist
>they either work for a wage or have never owned a significant amount of capital

Really activates my neurons

>t. man who doesn't know Europe exists.

There are European nations with renewable energy and socialist policies.

dude you're way to simplistic in your world view. Methods matter, just pick up a thermodynamics textbook. Off the top of my head, the Soviets favored using 2stroke engines which while a greater power density than our 4stroke engines, inherently burn lube, running much dirtier despite the fact they "burn the same oil" . And don't get me started on their nuclear program. They used nukes to put out oilfield fires.

Socialist policies don't mean anything since even America has socialist policies

But if they work for a wage, aren't they participating in the capitalist system?

>dude communism would so much better then capitalism
>"oh would you be like a laborer or...?"
>nah man I'd be like someone that doesn't have to work at all

Yes but they're a wagecuck not an actual capitalist™

Are you retarded? Capitalism is built upon the success and laws of the past. Our success from the past come from adhering to nature's laws. Communism is a radical reformation away from all our success and laws. It's an experiment and a failed one at that. No re-imagining of Communism can stop deadbeats from leeching off the system. Nature mitigated these people and so does capitalism.

If it has private means of production it's not a socialist country, period.

Socialdemocracy is not socialism.

>open video games thread
>there are no video games

Attached: wot.png (400x400, 207K)

Communists fundamentally don't understand the relationship Capitalism has with the natural order or how it accurately reflects it.
Its sad because every capitalist worth their salt knows about it and appreciates capitalism even in its barbarous aspects because millenia has shown why it should function as it does.

Nothing in reality reflects a communist vision. Not a single natural thing.

Actually communism works against the working class. Since there's no benefit to becoming a doctor in communism most people won't put in the effort, and when there's no doctors the quality of life of the working class plummets.

It would fail miserably. By marxist standards socialism must come after an industrialized, capitalist society, and Tamriel by the time of Skyrim is just barely flirting with mercantilism.

One of the reasons the USSR was pants on head retarded was that Russia wasn’t even an industrialized country and they had to jury rig a marxist system from a society that was in many ways still fucking feudalistic. All that 5 year plan stuff was a result of the massive contradiction in Russian socialism and you’d see the same issues in Tamriel.

Capitalism itself was a radical reformation. You don't have to be a communist to learn some actual history.

Enjoy your ban faggot

>dude workers are so smart that they could basically run the world together magically by holding hands

I love that commies expose themselves as never having a job so easily. The average worker is fucking retarded nearly everywhere. You think most workers at mcdonalds or walmart could make intelligent decisions on how to operate the company? Managers are usually glorified tard wranglers

Is Yea Forums's knowledge of politics literal basic bitch tier boomer talking points or is this whole thread bait?

Attached: 1524363301466.jpg (647x656, 126K)

>Communism would be in the self-interest of most people
Why should I work harder or educate myself if there's zero monetary benefit to doing so? What reason do I have for doing the bare minimum and coasting through life?

The only possible way communism would work is if humanity transcended into some Godlike race where we don't require food and water to survive, and we're all inherently hyper intelligent.

Only if they set the goal of killing all Mer

Read a fucking book dude, liberalism and the individualist secular idea of man did not come out of nowhere. Capitalism developed as a result of cultural and technological advancements, it’s not the natural state of things. This isn’t even a commie talking point, its basic economic history.
>peak anglocentrism: assuming that capitalism is just the default setting

Okay, what's wrong with what I said? What did I get wrong?

Capitalism with heavy regulation and a strong social support network has been proven to work in reality, pure socialism sometimes falls apart and pure communism falls apart as well. The same happens with late stage capitalism. The true best economic approach a country could go for is a hybrid of the 3.

This is about communism working in the elder scrolls so yes video games

It would never work because Dunmer.

Attached: 1561394845870.jpg (920x523, 53K)

The idea that leftists advocate for absolute income equality is a massive strawman, its a stupid talking point that I don’t think I’ve ever seen a lefty seriously advocate for.
Leftists would have no problem with say a doctor making more than a shoe shiner, obviously one person’s labor creates more value. The issues they have with capitalism lie with where the value of your labor goes. (Shareholders, your boss, etc, not the laborer)

>it’s not the natural state of things.
Greed is a literal instinct. The desire to collect and hoard everything of value to your person. This ties into aggression and tribal groups. You will see this in every single animal that has to hunt to survive, or has a limited food supply in general.

Capitalism is that instinct turned into a working ideal.

So your advocating to keep the fruits of your labor?

Why the fuck is Yea Forums full of marxists these days?
Socialism, communism or marxism has never worked and never will work because it is incompatible with humans. Works for ants, not for people.

That’s not capitalism you tard that’s just basic economic theory that applies to any economic system
>resources are scarce
>people must organize to collect and manage these resources
>people want resources and compete for the limited supply
I dont think you really know what capitalism is

Capitalism is surely not working neither

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the most technologically advanced civilization humanity has ever seen for the past century thanks to Capitalism.

>when someone doesn't even understand the terms they're using so they just lump them all together

What, from having kings and queens? I will agree with that. Kings and Queens usually went authoritative, which seems to be a problem with most forms of communism.

America wasn't allowed to have an open and free market until 1776. Hmm...

>capitalism developed as a result of cultural and technological advancements.

Yes exactly. It was developed from such advancements. And Communism seeks to undermine all of that development.

>what is the labor theory of value
based retard. didn't even read marx

It's just like two guys fighting their hearts out lol

Nigga you're typing on a computer.

Did you? The labour theory of value doesn't mean that all labour is equal. I mean it being a theory of value in the first place means that the values differ.

Thats generally the idea at the root of socialist/communist thought. While obviously not 100% of a workers labor can go to them (the enterprise they work for must continue paying the bills after all), the leftist argument is that under capitalist markets owners of capital are incentivized to only give a bare minimum of a laborer’s value back to them (pretty much enough to keep them showing up every day), which makes it all a race to the bottom to see how little they can get away with paying.
More democratic and libertarian tendencies of socialism take it deeper and advocate for things like workplace democracy so laborers have more say in where their labor goes.

Are you sure about that?

Communism will work when we're all a machine hivemind.

The lowest IQ take. Not that you posted it sincerely I guess

Or i have better things to do than write out 14 paragraphs to destinguish the same shit in different stages. It's all born out of the same German shithole and it is equally nonfunctioning.

Guys we have a problem
The computers have risen up

If you've found another way to get on the internet you should patent that and make your own million dollar company.

Then why is China emitting so much more etha than the US bro? And you named one war that, in the grand scheme of things, wasn't very big

It makes the assumption that people in charge don't put in anything with their work. It also makes the assumption people are inherently entitled to someone else's legal property just because it's a result of collective labor.

>value of a commodity is determined solely by how much labor is put into producing it
aside from it being demonstrably untrue, it assumes that a commodity would double in value if it was done in twice the time by a cripple.

>socialism work
no

Reminder that even if you somehow became the best communist around you'd still get the helicopter ride because the guy flying it is jealous you are a better communist than he is.

It is an inherently flawed system.

or triple the value if done in a third but every corner was cut to get there.

jesus christ, at least learn what you're arguing against before you try to argue against it. Everything you said is wrong. It doesn't state that the only value in a commodity comes from a labor, or that more working time = more value. Marx literally goes through this in the first few chapters of capital for god sake. I'm surprised you didn't use the whole 'duhhh if i dig a hole and fill it up that refutes the labour theory of value because it's valueless'

Attached: zmorrowind.jpg (2048x1529, 761K)

And where is Marx now?
Dead.

No? Learn historical materialism.

BASED

>Marx literally goes through this in the first few chapters of capital
he got called out on it and had no explanation so he had to pull some shit out of his ass that contradicts everything he's said. based retard.

Attached: Martin Septim's Journal.jpg (700x917, 173K)

like what?

the notion of differing values for labor or that one form of labor is desired more than the other.
You can't have any hierarchies in communism at all. And yet all labor is inherently unequal in practice, aim, and affectation of the society.

>ackshoually value isn't proportional to the worker's invested labor, but to the "labor embodied in the commodity"

Under communism digging a hole and filling it is just as equal IN ALL WAYS as a man building a new Sistine Chapel. The state benefits all the same. It has to be equal or the beneficiaries of it (the state) would naturally move to the more desirable option. If it isn't equal in all ways the worker would not participate.
It is an insane person's philosophy.

You retards were already btfo by the leader of Denmark

no

I don't know how this goes against the labour theory of value or where Marx is supposed to have contradicted himself. He wrote little to nothing on what communism is and his work is mainly a critique of capitalism, but communism having no hierarchies is a meme or at the very least not what Marx argued.

It is proportionally to invested labor but only socially neccesary labour (the average amount of labour/time it takes a certain society to reproduce a reproducible good). A cripple taking longer than the average socially necessary time for example doesn't add more value.

>Under communism digging a hole and filling it is just as equal IN ALL WAYS as a man building a new Sistine Chapel.
It might be an insane persons philosophy, but it's not the philosophy of Marx, go actually read him or at least understand what you're arguing against.

One has to remember that the insane fat little shit Marx wrote his manifesto has a way to prevent shit that never happened. Instead, he caused worse stuff to happen. Thank you for fascism, communism, famine and insufferable US coastal "elites"

Piss on your grave you peace of shit.

Reading his ramblings as an apologist reads the bible is not a valid argument.

I'm not an apologist (i'm not even a marxist), just pointing out that people aren't even arguing against what they think they are. You can be against something without misrepresenting your opponents like an ignorant retard.

>It is proportionally to invested labor but only socially neccesary labour (the average amount of labour/time it takes a certain society to reproduce a reproducible good). A cripple taking longer than the average socially necessary time for example doesn't add more value.
and why is that? who the fuck knows.

either way, value of commodities is entirely subjective and is dictated by the consumers desires.

why is a bottle of water almost free on a regular day but 20$ during a hurricane? I'm sure it's proportional to labor somehow.

At a certain point communism becomes a thing of its own and Marx isn't needed. No one follows marx's philosphy to its logical ends in actuality. You can't.
What communism has warped into is what it truly is. It doesn't matter what Marx envisioned. What he envisioned cannot come to be.

You are the ignorant retard. You are fantasizing about an imaginary communism as described by Marx as the anti-capitalism. Everyone else is clearly basing their claims on actual communist shitholes like Brazil which did happen and we can learn from.

It as a system has only brought ruin. Not even of entire states. It brings ruin to the human mind by equating us to beasts of burden.
Get fucked commie. I'm a capitalist and an Illuminated being. I won't EVER see myself as a beast of burden.

that's price not value.

Price is value defined into concrete concepts you pakled

working people are beasts of burden in capitalism already dumbass. You work twice as long for half as much pay for so the CEO can buy yachts

Read Wage Labor & Capital and Value, Price, and Profit

Explain prices when supply and demand are at an equilibrium, or why a bottle of water for example will always be cheaper than a plane regardless of supply/demand.

No. I partake in capitalism and it involves me sitting on my ass all day as my futures yield for me.
I don't even have a high school education and I make over 200,000 a year on stocks and futures.

I'm not reading commie drivel, ever.

Now this is a based capitalist, not a dumb wagecuck

Attached: 1536597037329.png (663x715, 202K)

It would cause mass poverty, starvation, and millions dead like it does everywhere ti has ever been tried.

Oh you're literally a capitalist. It's fine, we're not interested in if you read or not, just how easily we can take our shit back from you.

Attached: dwk1hmkhwvd01.png (500x512, 376K)

Have fun learning how to take my capital when you refuse to interact with my economic system. If you don't interact with it you can't have affectation. Once you do partake I win by default.

guns are really useful

absolutely fucking based
cuckmunists destroyed

Fpbp that triggers the basement dweller brony communists of Yea Forums

how did you acquire said gun?
Remember I am a capitalist with ample income to high private investigators and PMCs.
My economic philosophy also condones extrajudicial killings.

You are still looking at a pile of dirt wondering how to turn it into a gun. And then you have to worry about ammo.

Planes are made up of various materials and parts that can be broken down into things still worth more than a bottle of water. If there was one bottle of water left on earth magically, it would be worth more than a plane though.

Despite being only 13 percent of the Empire, orcs commit half of all murders.

>yes, it's reality where it struggles
How did Soviet Russia stomp Germany so hard if it struggles?
>b-but the people lived like shit!
only normalfags care about that

Attached: 1565650853606.jpg (456x366, 100K)

this is dumb we just buy or steal guns and then turn around and use them against who we got them from

guns and ammo are made in factories, not by throwing money at a computer screen.

BASED

>if something just happens magically my economic theory makes sense
wtf i thought communism was meant to be the fantasy bros?

The plane can never stop dehydration leading to death though. The bottle of water is supremely valuable for that alone.
Also, it is water AND a bottle. You could use the bottle for anything. Even more life saving water.

A plane can't do any of that.

>we just buy
checkmate
My guns and ammo are made in my basement. Look at you having to involve others in your acquisition of your needs. Pathetic.

lend-lease

holy based

this is dumb as fuck

also we don't even really have to buy them if the factory workers take control of the gun factory for themselves to use against capital

Russia benefited very little from Allied supplies.

But what would you offer in labor for their labor?
What if they don't decide your labor is worth the exchange because they have guns and ammo, meaning everything you had to barter with instantly became theirs.
In your aim to end tyranny of the economist you just landed yourself as a sex slave for slavs.
Congrats, you played yourself.

P.S. I already hired the factory workers as PMCs.

Holy fuck you're a hopeless faggot. Communism has been BTFO, marx has been BTFO, you have to adapt. Let go of shit that's already been defeated and try something new. You're so pathetic studying up on your marx and devoting your life to being a commie, jesus christ.

then they'll die and the revolution fails because they're morons who got greedy like capitalists

Is it dumb because you found yourself partaking in capitalism on your own and it pisses you off?
Thats what it looks like you commie rat.

everyone is forced to labor in capitalism or die, if they didn't capitalism wouldn't be a problem

Attached: 6gm882umy3cz.jpg (1032x916, 146K)

But they didn't get greedy. They simply didn't see value in your labor because your aim was for personal satisfaction, which is contrary to the state's aim.
In rejecting you they fulfilled the highest tenant of communism: to ruin lives.

>In total, 92.7% of the wartime production of railroad equipment by the USSR was supplied by Lend-Lease
>Much of the logistical assistance of the Soviet military was provided by hundreds of thousands of U.S.-made trucks and by 1945, nearly a third of the truck strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built. Trucks such as the Dodge 3/4-ton and Studebaker 1/2-ton were easily the best trucks available in their class on either side on the Eastern Front. American shipments of telephone cable, aluminum, canned rations and clothing were also critical
>"On the whole the following conclusion can be drawn: that without these Western shipments under Lend-Lease the Soviet Union not only would not have been able to win the Great Patriotic War, it would not have been able even to oppose the German invaders, since it could not itself produce sufficient quantities of arms and military equipment or adequate supplies of fuel and ammunition. The Soviet authorities were well aware of this dependency on Lend-Lease. Thus, Stalin told Harry Hopkins [FDR's emissary to Moscow in July 1941] that the U.S.S.R. could not match Germany's might as an occupier of Europe and its resources."

Not all expend labor in capitalism. I don't and I make 6 figures annually.

>They simply didn't see value in your labor because your aim was for personal satisfaction, which is contrary to the state's aim.

what are these ramblings

*every real human

capitalists aren't people

All commies deserve a free helicopter ride

I was arguing in favor of capitalism retards

Yeah sure fuck it why not

I was just arguing.

If they aren't people then they cannot add value thru labor as a person and you shouldn't be trying to convert their economic system to yours as they will only drain it. Best to just let them continue on as they are.

>when a retard calls you a retard
Read my post again. Slowly this time so you can comprehend. I was making fun of you for that very reason. Do i really have to spell this out like you're 5?

I guess if watching YouTube all day from home at my IT job is labor, I guess I'm set. The fact is, tech makes most jobs obselete so there's a ton of easy fake jobs out there. Your just too low IQ to find them. Learn to play the system, whatever system is in place.

being a capitalist is a relationship to the means of production, take the factory away and give it to the workers of the factory and you're no longer a capitalist. If you're nice and surrender peacefully they might even let you have a job at the factory instead of beheading you for your crimes.

You should seriously be sterilized

No, don't think it would be possible.
There are many reasons why it wouldn't work and Divine beings are one of them.
You think Sheogorath would like that boring shit.
He alone is a big enough threat to communism.
It would be funny seeing commies trying to spread their message only to be persecuted everytime they start trying to preach.

Someday you will go to jail, and you'll get raped by lots of niggers, you sick fuck

"sustain yourself"

What a horrendous concept! surely there must be some other way

So long as you focus on emissions only and ignore the dangerous situation of chemically destroying the ability of the oceans to dissolve gasses combined with deforestation, you're not touching the real problem of atmospheric CO2.

being self sustaining isn't possible when your labor is stolen for the profit of capitalists

there is literally no way to "sustain yourself" in a modern society unless you think you're going to mine up gold and build a computer processor with it. The community and the self must work together to sustain eachother. It's called solidarity.

You fundamentally misunderstand, like all commies. I didn't want to give the factory (that I don't own) to the workers. I just went to them and told them I'd pay them money enough so they won't have to expend labor for the rest of their lives if they would just rape and kill anyone coming to them in an attempt to barter for their goods.

They happily accepted because why wouldn't they. They even took the lowball offer because they said it was ample money for cleaning filth from their neighborhood. They kept asking me about Big Macs which was weird.

The end result is always complete annihilation. Welcome to entropy.

The only people pushing for communism are people that won't suffer the consequences and aren't working class to begin with.

Allied aid was roughly 7% of soviet production if I'm being generous. There was literally no way for support to efficiently come in. Its insane to believe that lend-lease carried Russia through the war. Did it help? Sure. Was it crucial? Maybe. Is it the reason they shit all over Germany? No.

Funny that you would single out the US in particular because they contributed almost nothing and often diverted supplies marked for lend-lease to their own troops. I believe the biggest supplier of Russia was Britain if I remember correctly. Did you just copy-paste some low information crap from wikipedia or something?

Attached: 1437337967085.gif (640x360, 393K)

If a doctor is paid the same as a street sweeper why should anyone goto college for 5 years to become a doctor?

no.
fuck commies.
fuck socialist shills
fuck the empire.
fuck the thalmor.
fuck the elves.

Attached: ScrewYouElves3_5939.jpg (350x405, 50K)

youtube.com/watch?v=0XxYwWg7F8I

when you play Fallout 3, NV or 4, just install the conelrad mod. fuck commies.

>hurr lend-lease dindu sheit we wuz kangz of the eastern front
whatever you say ivan

Thanks OP, looks like you got what you wanted. A politics thread on a vidya board. But please just don't involve TES next time you start this bullshit, I really don't want retards pretending they know what there talking about when it comes to TES lore.

>COMMUNISM BAD CAPITALISM GOOD
I'm just holding out for absolute monarchism, buddy. I don't care about normie shit like white picket fences and trans rights.

Attached: 1565609192546.jpg (249x240, 10K)

Not an argument.

Socialism can never work because of one simple fact.

Humans are flawed and selfish creatures.

People won't do more demanding jobs unless they are rewarded more for doing so, people won't like their possessions belonging to whoever wants them.

If communism takes off it will inevitably crash hard and there will be infinite little kingdoms for you to set up.

sure, transmutation exists

I don't see where socialist ideology would come from in a world with very powerful magical beings. You know how city states had their patron deities that they claimed blessed and defended them? What if those deities literally existed and everyone saw them? A world like Elder Scrolls would probably be filled with cults of actual powerful, magical beings. Socialism and revolutionary, populist ideology generally arises because one group has privileged access to political power and a greater part of the economic surplus. People get upset at those conditions when things are going badly and are more likely to revolt, because the power relations are largely arbitrary. If there is a godly entity running around like some Greek myth, then people are probably just going to worship it and try to get its blessings. Unless it is malevolent, then I guess they'd fear it and try to find another godly being to protect them.

Attached: he wants to go back.png (757x426, 873K)

The young people in colleges who push socialism have no life experience and don't understand the reality of the world and the human animal.

They are stupid basically.

your 7% claim is not sourced, hohol

Capitalism sucks, Communism is a lie, Hitler was right about everything.

Attached: XhgX0.gif (243x274, 635K)

pretty much. fuck normies and fuck college.

>You will never pledge your loyalty and service to a just and honest king and through unwavering Nobility, Honesty, Valor, Courtesy and Loyalty be granted a fiefdom of serfs who, through your care and leadership are brought up to be free to take up professions for the benefit of themselves, their lord, and ultimately, their nation with their valued labour, and gain notoriety and property of their own to raise for themselves

Attached: Dimarss (4).jpg (2592x3872, 815K)

It can't even work in this universe, so of course it wont work in any other.

I think it's a bit of the teapot calling the kettle black here Mr. Simplistic. The soviets didn't know about global warming. They didn't build two strokes out of some hatred for the environment. When they used nukes to put out oilfires radiation was not fully understood (even though "Putting out fires" is a bullshit excuse in itself, they just wanted another chance to weapons test.) I definitely don't think America is in any position to talk about nukes and ethics considering we are the only nation to ever use a nuclear bomb on civilian populations. Even our initial development aka Bikini Atoll you could say we were just nuking islands for the sake of it not even to put out fires.

We are long past the oil / diesel engine being the only way we can get things done. The soviets are dead. We remain.

So we can adopt more of them without fear?

I'm advocating social democracy.

We will get our Emperor soon.
Hitler was a retard that designed one of the worst governments of all time. He just happened to be the figurehead of a yet another G*rman chimp out.

Attached: 13751264.jpg (770x900, 165K)

They are related. I'm talking about pollution in general. Regulation is being dissolved across the board. The EPA seems to be an agency dedicated to preventing environmental protection at this point. They are about to sue states that set emission standards for cars higher than the federal mandate. What happened to state's rights?

>The soviets didn't know about global warming.
They sure knew they were going to dry the whole Aral Sea, they still didn't care.

Holy fuck Russia got absolutely rekt by Hitler and only managed because churchill and america helped in the end. Stalin's retarded ass almost lost Moscow.

Can we at least agree on definitions here? People in this thread seem to have no idea what capitalism or communism even are. That's why they are arguing past each other. Let me try:

>Capitalism is a mode of production based on private ownership of the means of production. The working class lacks capital and must sell their labor to the owners in order to survive. The owners make passive income while workers make active income.

>Communism is a mode of production based on communal ownership of the means of production. The means of production are collectively owned by all members of society, and production is carried out democratically according to the will of the workers. Distribution is based on labor rather than ownership status.

Shall we talk about some American environmental atrocities? This isn't an argument about Soviet / Cold War USA it's about the current state of affairs.

If you like, but seeing how my point is that environmental contamination is a product of industrialization and not capitalism, I don't see how that would help you.

>Funny that you would single out the US in particular because they contributed almost nothing and often diverted supplies marked for lend-lease to their own troops. I believe the biggest supplier of Russia was Britain if I remember correctly. Did you just copy-paste some low information crap from wikipedia or something?
>Wikipedia is not valid
>the numbers I pull out of my ass with no sources however are right

I dunno what this means.

You should just lay down now then no need to post or try to extend our stay.

Do you think that is the only example? The US has shaped regimes all over the world coming into the 20th century. Vietnam, Korea, Honduras, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, East/West Germany, any "proxy" conflict. We have our hand in every cookie jar. In the grand scheme of things we have made a pretty significant difference. China is dirtier than us because they are larger than us and less developed. We have also been cutting the Chinese deals for decades for better trade arrangements and they have no reason to change. We are their largest buyer and their biggest incentive to produce shit in such a disgusting manner. WHY DOES CHINA EMIT SO MUCH POLLUTION? Where do you think half the shit they make goes? We just moved our dirty production overseas because it's cheaper.

>Communism
>Implying Daedras like Mephala and Boethiah will let that happen

Yes. Industrialization and capitalism are unrelated.

Attached: stevejobs.jpg (1200x800, 101K)

Based!

Attached: 19060137_1391950834231579_5302598580607531453_n.jpg (733x881, 52K)

Except they are, completely?
Was the URSS capitalist?
Was China under the PRC and before Deng Xiaoping?

>capitalism and industrialization are completely unrelated

Read this aloud to yourself

Are you retarded, by any chance?
Industrialization is what every country does when it wants to become relevant and rich.
If you think that most capitalist countries industrialize, it's because the world is mostly capitalist countries.
Every single socialist country industrialized when it wanted to stop being a shithole.
The USSR industrialized under Stalin (with no regard for human life or the environment) to get industrial production capable of defeating the German invasion.
So did China, hence why for many years it was the most contaminating country on the planet. And I mean this on a per capita basis, so the usual excuses of "there are a billion chinks" are pointless.

Industrialization happens everywhere, whether it's socialist or capitalist only defines if that emerging industry is on the hands of the State or private companies.

You are incredibly ignorant on economy and history and only repeat commie buzzwords, you should read some basic literature before arguing.

It’s a fantasy universe so a fantasy way of living like communism can work yeah.
This

No it's not. Two strokes have immediate effects of releasing particulates in the air. We have known about the damage particulates can cause since the 20s, and mass Soviet production didn't occur until the 60s. We literally stopped putting lead in our gasoline because we realized it's bad for everyone and youre saying they didn't know any better? On a side note, Soviet 2strokes were much more advanced than our own two strokes, and we copied their tech when some defectors brought it with them.

As for the nukes, it was not ignorance, it was ego. It wasnt another weapons test, it was just virtue signaling by showing off that they can use nukes for peace. It was a low yield tactical nuke because any nuke is overkill for an oil fire.

Lastly, detonating nukes in the ocean is literally the best place to do it. We only stopped because we wanted privacy as the Soviets would park their boats and watch our tests. Their are plent of plans now for floating nuclear plants that will never be built because of fucking hippies.

I am an engineer so I am passionate and a bit biased about these things.

My friend, what is the purpose of industrialization in a noncapital based society? Where is the value in excess goods? There isn't any.

I love this argument for so many reasons. The standard argument against communism is that it never works, in reality it becomes a dictatorship where the dictator is ultimately just out for themselves. They don't serve the people's needs. They live a life of luxury.

Does that sound familiar? A system where someone is benefiting from the work of others with only their own interest at heart? A communist country would produce exactly what was necessary for it's needs. The USSR is "communist" but it wasn't ruled by anyone with a communist philosophy. Try telling me that China is "communist" state. They are economic capitalists with communist authoritarianism

>Industrialization happens everywhere, whether it's socialist or capitalist only defines if that emerging industry is on the hands of the State or private companies.

For the individual, what's the difference? My point is they aren't different. You are mad as fuck bruh let's read about the industrial revolution together you musta been asleep for that part.

>My friend, what is the purpose of industrialization in a noncapital based society? Where is the value in excess goods? There isn't any.
I guess someone should've told Stalin and Mao.

Didn't read the rest, probably just standard commie drivel.

You didn't read any of my shit because I say fuck communism multiple times but your butthole is so sensitive you can't process a criticism of capitalism.

You obviously don't read very much and you aren't willing to discuss the issues either which explains your very big brain worldview.

Knowing particulates can cause damage in the 20s and having a CENTURY of data to back that up today is slightly different.

>We literally stopped putting lead in our gasoline because we realized it's bad for everyone and youre saying they didn't know any better?

This really shows the depth of your knowledge. Do you know when we phased lead out of gas? 1990. And that was a five year plan. Lead didn't have to be completed phased out until 1995. The soviet union had collapsed.

The "purpose" of the nukes is debatable they launched it for many reasons you're right on that.

In the end there is no good place to set off nukes.

sounds like your fault for provoking a gay who would rape you with a baseball bat

Yeah, you're a dumb cunt.

>Holy fuck Russia got absolutely rekt by Hitler
Hitler bulldozed through their agricultural region then the Russians went full nationalist retard mode and did a real life zerg rush. Its actually a pretty amazing logistical feat how they bounced back. Go read about.
>Stalin's retarded ass almost lost Moscow.
Real life war isn't a game of Civ. Some of the most famous battles in history involve purposely allowing capitals to be destroyed.
>literal american propaganda is valid
>facts produced by historical inquiry are not

>benefit to the working class
>working class just ends up suffering more while a new elite class gets the benefit of their work
what did the retard mean by this

Yeah that was my bad. I got it mixed up with the Clean Air Act of the 70s where TEL content in gas was greatly reduced but not completely reduced. The Clean Air Act and the proliferation of catalytic converters during the 70s is kinda my point though.

Also, just to be extra pedantic, it is useful to test and develop nukes, as while they are overkill for any productive application on earth, they are the only tool we have that can be used on asteroids.

Well it is a fantasy universe so anything is possible.

Fuck you all /pol/ niggers shitting my board.

>admitting to being a phoneposter
What is it with nu commies and phones

Uh, what about sending up a team of oil drillers in a space shuttle to break the asteroid up after training them how to be astronauts?

They stomped Germany due to them having far more materials and manpower that vastly exceeded anything Germany and its allies could realistically produce also helped by the fact they were also supplied materials by the allies with a notable example being American trucks which were vital to the Soviets rapid advancement on the Eastern Front along with American Shermans being used for elite tank units.

>everyone is forced to labor in capitalism
Are you trying to imply a communist government wouldn't force you to work as well if anything a communist government would not tolerate neets

>elder scroll gods give commies free divine beast rides

>being a bootlicker to some inbred noble who will have a succession war the moment he croaks due to to many sons or no sons
The only good government type of an elected oligarchy that prevents retards from voting

I didn't comment on it initially but your remark about floating nuclear platforms gave me a hearty chuckle because I couldn't help but think of MGS:V / Mother Base

This is my attempt at an "Armageddon" joke

>Communism must be accepted by the working class to succeed, and so far, only rich, white-collar, or spoiled non-workers are the only people that push for it
The world exists outside of 2019 America user, the working class has always been extremely left whenever racism didn't distract them to the right and even when racist they can be very left-leaning. Historically, the working class always voted left-wing and the rich always voted right-wing by a massive margin and your American stereo-types won't change that.

how do you think those revolutions happened?

Enjoy getting rekt by the populares.

Attached: Julius_Caesar_Coustou_Louvre_MR1798.jpg (1560x2840, 2.56M)

Alright, but they also did this while being the poorest nation in Europe after withdrawing from the first world war where they got battered, then having a civil war, then being invaded by the victors of WW1 who tried to reinstall the aristocracy (and yes, that means American soldiers have invaded Russian soil while the reverse is not true). Then, after all of that, they built their economy enough to beat back the Nazis, during which time that infrastructure got ravaged again, and after that they still beat the richest country on Earth into space. The USSR was a powerhouse, they converted the nation from fully agrarian with the vestiges of serfdom at the turn of the 20th century into a fully industrialised modern economy while suffering devastating wars, being under constant military threat from vastly wealthier nations and being locked out of trade with those nations in either goods or technology, and they did it because of communism not in spite of it. There is only one nation with a higher rate of economic growth, and that's communist China.

The mistake of concentrating political and economic power into a small governing party was a significant one and the political repression it led to is a substantial downside, but would it have been necessary without the rest of the world baying for Russia's blood? Either way it's a lesson that can be learned from by instead advocating for worker democracy and determination in the workplace, distributing economic control the same way political control is. Meanwhile, capitalism can never be criticised or examined to the point that probably none of the people in this thread could even define it. They would probably say something about markets or hard work or self reliance, but all capitalism actually means is total control of all economic decision making BY capitalists, people with the money to buy shares in companies, explicitly for their own benefit. And what's in their benefit was to gut American manufacturing.

Charter towns and villages that were functionally agrarian communes were common in the middle ages and renaissance so I'd say yes.

>Wealth beyond measure outlander
I don't get it.

>that one mod where the final boss was literally a soviet communist from russia trying to take over the world

Only in argoninan societies

It was never your board.

CEO's work is million times more valuable than some wagie's

CEOs don't -create- anything. Their masses of wealth are literally the unpaid surplus labour value of their employees. You cannot ethically defend the existence of million/billionaires without accepting the fact they exploit everyone who works for them

>Capitalism is natural and just ebbed from feudalism and flower into it naturally

You can't not partake in capitalism
There are no places on earth where it doesn't exist

Labour=/= physical creation, we're past the 19th century.

Free Market existed thousands of years before Feudalism.

>the only valuable work is industrial ones
You're a big brainlet aren't you

There was China in the 70s.
But they became tired of having a famine that killed millions of chinks so they became capitalist.

The Invisible Hand of the Free Markets have disagreed with you. The wage of a good CEO is worth a lot, because one CEO is NOT interchangeable with another. One CEO can bring a company into fortune and riches, another can crash it to the ground, with no survivors. This is why the fact they are responsible for creating such a high number of wealth , is why I can ethically defend tgheir existence. Without a SPECIFIC CEO, then the company would have far less value.Ergo, a CEO is worth his paycheck.

Exploitation of employees is dubious. They can quit at any time. We are not in the Great Depression.Theres plenty ofjobs,

ITT: youtube.com/watch?v=xqXAW2snGMI

The problem was they did a lot of that off of slave labor. The communist party was a party focused revolution that was a form of reactionary feudalism in response to capitalism.

The big problem with it is it either assumes that the people will be in charge will be benevolent (ie the person making to proposition is a retard) Or the person advocating it doesn't care (ie the person is malevolent).
Centralization of power is for boot lickers.

Attached: centralization.png (586x202, 17K)

A Command Economy , which is required for true Communism, which is Socialism taken to the next level, creates waaay too many issues.

You should read what happened in the USSR in companies. They were only driven by quotas of production, even if higher production made no sense. Producing huge amounts of shoes,even if there was no demand for it. Massive amounts of waste.Workers had too many rights, and were guaranteed a wage.Lazyness and lack of enterpreneunal spirit to innovate.Why?

Because there was no reason to.

I think a command economy is possible when we develop an advance enough AI. Ofcourse that would be humanity's retirement plan, as the universe would then belong to our engineered offspring.

>American government does something with its allies, for its allies, which also helps itself
>American government records that it did this, the other allies are aware of it as well
>'The American government is trying to make themselves look good with made up numbers, it's propaganda to influence you to think they're good'
>'The made up numbers I pull out of my ass are different, that's historical inquiry and when I try to influence your political beliefs with sourceless claims to view them as bad it's not propaganda'
You could source and give evidence your claims with a professional unbiased source at anytime if you were legit.

I don't see how labor no longer necessarily being toiling in the fields, affects at all what he is saying here?

Communist states, or how they routinely turn out, corrupt economically inept socialist dictatorships, have problems. That said feudalism and imperialism have problems. Societies with powerful supernatural conglomerate guilds probably have problems. Societies with powerful criminal organizations have problems. Societies with magical drug addiction have problems. Societies that are messed with by godlike inhuman dimensional beings and demons and undead have problems. The whole continent of Tamriel has problems regardless of what economic and political systems they adopt.

I hope the next elder scrolls is good but looking at fallout I have no hope

>95% of thread isn't even bothering to include TES shit in it
>thread is still up
are the jannies on strike or something?

Attached: 1524373647811.jpg (590x550, 34K)