Tell me what makes a good MMO

How do you make friends in a MMO? Asking for a friend.

ffxiv doesn’t have much overworld content but most cities are constantly spammed with invitations to homes

people with make FCs around building, maintaining, and staffing cafes, bars, and dance clubs, where the whole housing area is designed like a modern bar, or a library, or whatever. You can tag your room as something, and put up invitations for them and they can leave reviews on your house

I have fond memories of chatting about lore in someone’s in-game library then having tea after upstairs

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Talk to someone first and hope they reply or wait for the stars to align then someone will talk to you first

Organic. You wanna do that dungeon? You actually have to travel there. You want to teleport? Sorry that isn’t organic. No fast travel. This FORCES people to come across each other. And more often times then not you would usually chat with one another and shoot the shit. Not like this secluded experience we have today in a game that’s supposed to be an “M M O”

FFXIV made a lot of smart decisions that on the surface seem dumb but help give the game a lot of life. For example, a lot of people will whine about the forced Main Scenerio Quest, especially for lower levels but what it actually does is keep content alive well beyond their time as current content. For example, the Heavensward expansion isn't something you can just skip. In WoW, every expansion but the current one is completely invalidated and you only hang around in an old expansion's area as long as you need to get the required XP. In FFXIV, you have to go through the entirety of Heavensward's story from 50-60 and the patches, you're forced to do the dungeon content and even the end game trials in order to progress. That content is all still alive and has people queuing for it all the time because of the level sync and because there are new players legitimately doing it for the first time. You are caught up on all the story from Heavensward before you touch Stormblood and it means that the story telling never has to make a complete reset and everything build on top of each other.

And story in FFXIV is such an integral part of the game that it elevates all the things around it. WoW tries to make epic encounters by throwing as much shit at the player as possible but FFXIV can do that just by storytelling and music. It's hard to explain unless you've played it yourself but the feeling of doing the end game content and being seriously invested in the boss fights and their outcome beyond loot is something that Blizzard has forgotten was important. When Blizzdrones say that story isn't important in an MMO I just look at them with pity.

Most importantly, FFXIV doesn't have a laser focus on raiding like WoW does these days. There is content for everyone and whether you will like it or not isn't important to the devs. They don't make content based on spreadsheets of player activity and every patch has a wide breadth of content to do that isn't raiding.

Every inch of FF14's storytelling is invalidated by the chosen one bullshit.

How so?

is it still free to play in the beginning or is that taken out?

Explain. Yes, there is a disconnect between you being the only Warrior of Light along side everyone else but its a built in conceit of the game that it asks you to suspend your disbelief for at the very start. As consequence it can afford to tell in depth stories connecting you to the NPCs because the NPCs treat you as special and not some random mook. You are the hero of the story without any conceit. Blizzard tries to have it both ways by having you be a random soldier while also being the Lich King slayer and the most important being on Azeroth and it doesn't work.

The whole "hurrdurr WoW classic story was good because you were not the chosen one" is a meme created by trying to explain why WoW's story is so bad. The real answer is that Blizzard has bad writers and it isn't more complicated than that. You can have a story in an MMO where you are the central focus and one where you are just a random soldier. Both work as long as you have good writers, something Blizzard hasn't had since, I dunno, WC3? Maybe never?

redpill me for resub ffxiv with just heavenward

>it's a built-in conceit that the storytelling is bullshit
I believe it.

Personal stories should be personal. Shoehorning chosen one stories into shared worlds, while I'm sure it's satisfying to play, it's completely missing the point of what mmos are capable of.

The thing that kept me playing XIV is that WoW has great atmosphere in the zones and details about the world, and builds itself up only to constantly fall flat with a lame overarching story that concludes poorly. I have been left blueballed so many times by WoW failing to deliver on their buildups that I one day just tableflipped that shit and quit in disgust. I speculate that this is because of the design approach for the game -- everything is focused on raiding, giving players an at least flimsy reason to be in the content they're in, so major story developments get twisted to put the players where the gameplay demands. The story will never truly advance like this, so a satisfying conclusion is impossible.

Meanwhile, XIV has traditionally been the polar opposite. The world is detailed, but usually doesn't feel as compelling as the interactions you get with WoW. However, the high notes in the story are amazing, and that sort of payoff is what keeps me around. Unlike WoW, I assume that the XIV writers actually write their endings first to decide where they want to go with the story and then work backwards to fill in the details, which isn't exactly the best way to handle things, but more than serviceable for video game writing. Every revalation has been impressive, interesting, or otherwise meaningful, and ever patch I find myself wondering what will come next.

And as of Heavensward, the worldbuilding has only improved every expansion. Now in Shadowbringers, the majority of the zone quests, which don't really give all that much exp or material incentive to do them, feel worth doing just to learn more about the world. Any complaints I have about the game aren't story based in nature.

Is this the new xiv thread

What are mmos capable of?

FFXIV because it's pure kino

I heard Shadowbringers adds "Trusts" to the game, basically letting you use NPCs for dungeons and raids. Is it for all dungeons and raids, even pre expansion or just the Shadowbringer ones they added?

This. XIV is a great game, I hope it had great community too

it's a garbage feature
basically you can only use it from 71-79
at 80 you need to level the npcs from 71 making them totally useless as it takes way too much time

Yes

you will run across big maps to talk to a person and then walk 10min back to your base to talk to a person that is your main quest for the next 4 weeks. meanwhile you have to deal with bunny and cat trannies showing you their bulk

Cruz 90% of the time I hate playing with others, and I'm brand new so I'd be starting at level 1, which is not where the expansion starts, I'm guessing?

Individuals leaving a real mark by their words and deeds on the histories and direction of the world. True heroes remembered for years. Political decision driven not by scriptwriters, but by players. Everyone's actions bearing a unique reputation instead of being a cookie cutter replacement for any other person.

It's only for Shadowbringers story dungeons, nothing before and no raids. You can't bring them into any dungeon that wasn't in the story, either (so you can bring them to the level 80 story dungeon, but you can't bring them into the other two level 80 dungeons).

I challenge you
streamable.com/orb1o

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Fuck me, guess I'm not gonna give it a shot.

It's stupid, but I think it was by design. Trust endanger a stable duty finder, so after you hit level cap, they're relegated mostly to those leveling tons of alts.

I can't see them leaving the exp gains being as low as they are for too long though. Even doubled, you're still going to outlevel trusts on a single character.

Does any game do this? What are the mechanics of that?

What? You mean you have a resub that would only let you play HW content and not beyond? If you buy Shadowbringers then you get Stormblood with it.

If you've played HW then you know that there is a massive writing quality jump from ARR to HW. Shadowbringers does the same thing, but if HW was your base. I think the major reason FFXIV is being talking about with new threads every few hours is because of the story. When people say its the best FF game in decades or of all time, they aren't joking.

No. This is a thread about what you like in MMOs, not a FFXIV circle jerk.

WoW zones have lost meaning expansions ago. Now they are just places where you do world quests and everything else doesn't matter. FFXIV is also the same way, just replace world quests with gathering nodes and FATES. Its a problem both games have.

You seem to be avoiding giving an in depth answer. Yes, the story has a built in single player story but that doesn't mean that it invalidates the shared world. A lot of the group content is group content in context of the story as well and it recognizes that the WoL has a group of raiding friends to kill things with.

No, its just for the story dungeons in Shadowbringers. It's just for people that do want to play the game single player or who want to practice a dungeon before doing it with random people. Its an example of the devs putting in content for all sorts of players regardless of what the spread sheet numbers say. It's good that it doesn't invalidate group play because that would actually suck.

similar to wow they tried to create something new and utterly failed.

>hit a 71k crit with Xenoglossy
Black mage is the best

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That's Mage faggot

How about what makes a bad MMO? Quests. If your game is all about doing 20 quests per hour, it's shit. An MMO is about slowly improving your character while exploring and interacting with a world. Not walking from an enemy to the next to gather spider eggs.

FFXI had very little quests, and these quests would usually be complex things that required preparation, not just go to the nearest local enemy. Grinding XP was not the entirety of the game. Sometimes you'd feel like "I think it's time for me to grow a bit and explore further", and you'd go farm mobs for a few days, get a handful of levels then discover new content.
In WoW and FF14, farming mobs IS the whole content. You don't level up so you can explore, you explore so you can level up.

NexusTK. There are no mechanics. You can't mechanize storytelling. That's the point.

XIV, no contest.

WoW holds the market in that "call of duty" way. It had some good ideas in the beginning, but has got insanely complacent in that top spot and seldom innovates. Plus its lore is only as strons as the warcraft setting allows.

FFXIV keeps building up and trying some new ideas and honestly isnt the same game ARR was for its first year. But the world and lore building has OVER 20+ titles to build from (sleeping on tactics and other spin offs). Most of those unique and can be included in a way that either honors the source material or simply inspired by it.

The only real question is who do you worship more, blizzard or square?

It's a nice feature for going through the MSQ and seeing their interactions, but if you want to play the game entirely single-player, they aren't made for that.

How so?

Trusts do exactly what they are meant to do. They didn't fail at all.

Again, its a different kind of storytelling. You've got it in your head that all MMOs have to be the same and FFXIV is living proof that they don't have to be. What you want isn't even an MMO and never has been. Go play a MUD.

how can blizzard recover in the MMO genre after this

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You don't have to do any grouped content until level 15 and the game is designed around throwing you into a box with everyone else who needs to do it
The trust system will only be 71-80 unless the next expac extends it or NG+ includes trusts as well

But you have squadron for dungeons below 70

I don't care too much about the populated zones, that's a goal that's never going to be realized so long as additional zones are being added to the game and there's a leveling system in place to ensure only high level zones are used. I want the feeling of hanging out in Duskwood and helping the townsfolk, or doing quests and learning the lore, and both games handled that very well (Though I haven't played WoW since Cataclysm).

For XIV, if you want a living zone populated by players with group content, Eureka is basically that. A set of four zones with around 144 people in each, organically formed groups, and things to do.

Warcraft 3>FFXIV

>You seem to be avoiding giving an in depth answer. Yes, the story has a built in single player story but that doesn't mean that it invalidates the shared world.

Congratulations, you, the legendary hero, hath slayed the gigantic monster and saved the entire world! Now shuffle along, there's a queue behind you.

A game needs to have mechanics or it's not a game.

>90% of the time I hate playing with others

I mean why would you even consider playing an MMO to begin with? Kingdoms of Amalur might be a good option. It's like a single player MMO and is only $10 on Steam.

I tired to get into WoW and just didn’t like it. Ff14 sucked me into the story and made me wonder what’s going to happen next. Shame about wow because it seems like a nice game.

Xenoglossy? More like xenogay.

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absolutely, there can't be a million chosen ones.

How many buffs you had on ya?

Food is something you get done with when you log on, a healthstone is a rare treat to use in emergencies.

>nobody uses trust aside from that 1 time because they're shit
>the AI is garabge
>the whole level them from start is garbage
>trash exp gain
>can't use them from early levels makes them even more pointless
>the whole system is simple and weak as shit, too few npcs, too little customizability
>npcs to runt GROUP content with in an MMO to begin with, great idea
lol

Everyone's so prone to reporting so everyone keeps quiet and sticks to FC and LS.

The only time people talks in public is if someone needs help or to bitch about something.

Good mmo is a good game with a bunch of stuff to do in it and you can get a mount to ride.

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>mfw one person didn't even try and died on the spot

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How does it hit for that hard with only like 1000 potency? Is it stat scaling? My Warrior's Inner Chaos is 960 potency with a critical direct hit, and it only hits for like 42k.

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I didn't say the game didn't have mechanics.
I'm saying that people participating in stories doesn't depend on mechanics. Organic stories are human interaction. The developers just set the stage by creating events for players to react to.

1, the hades buff at the end of the fight. But here's one unbuffed.

Different roles different scaling for stats.

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Let's create this system so you don't need to play with other players and while we're at it let's double the time it takes to finish a dungeon!
Yeah, what a great idea. FFXIV going the WoW route creating complete ass features.

Sounds like what EVE attempted, and while cool, is not particularly fun to play except for the top tier players/alliances.

There is a communal feeling of going through the MSQ with other people. In practice it doesn't work like that because the writing is actually good. It's amazing how a game with over a million subscribers can feel like the story was written just for them. I can't really explain this to you without massive spoilers and with you clearly not having the personal experience but trying to strawman what happened in WoW over and over again and applying it to FFXIV is not going to win anyone over who has an experience in both.

They explicitly said that they don't want people using Trusts to level and invalidate group content. Again, they succeeded at exactly what they were meant to be used for.

>hey we made squadrons part of the MSQ this time so you can dodge queues for DPS while not forcing yourself to do the same 10 floors of a deep dungeon over and over again
>if you're a fucking turbo autist who leveled everything to 80 before finishing the MSQ there's literally no reason to use them afterwards, same as leveling everything to 60 before you unlock squads
Ok retard

I hope black mage can start casting mini meteors at level 90.

>like furry weeb shit
yikes

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I've done a 53k crit with Misery as a lvl 76 WHM inside Qitana with no damage buffs.

I hope tanks eventually scale higher. I was excited to find I had an attack that had a higher potency than a Midare, but still only hits for half as much due to stat scaling. At least don't lie to me and write the potency lower while scaling everyone the same.

Eh, I've been in couple of FCs but everyone just is unfunny autist so far. It really hard to find actually funny people when the community mostly consists of socially awkward weebs on the spectrum.

Yes, but my question was about the mechanics of the game. People can tell stories with each other without the need of a game.

Do you... Have you even fucking seen wow?

I meant to reply to the post below it.

If I wanted a story written just for me I'd play a singleplayer game. Funny how that works.

Honestly if there’s something I’m disappointed with in ShB, is that all the Ronso we interact with are pretty well spoken, no noble savage types like Kimahri, Yenke, Brian, etc.

ALL THE FURRY RACES IN WOW DONT COUNT

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>option to skip an MSQ completion queue with an obvious drawback
>let's you see boss mechanics before having to drag retards kicking and screaming through them if you play a tank or healer
>hurr durr why can't I just solo grind faster than regular in a fucking MMO

It's an mmo, you kill stuff, talk to people, craft things. What are you asking?

I don't care about single or multiplayer, I just want a good game. Ff14 provides that in spades on multiple fronts.

>played WoW, FFXI, GW2 and ESO
>don't want to play them again for various reasons
>still crave an MMO
>everything else is korean or super fucking dead or stuck in development hell

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Well sucks for you mate, ff14 is a mmo that’s mainly about the story and if you don’t like it you can just not play the game. Not all games have to be for everyone.

Cool, but this is an mmo thread.

Try Mabinogi

XIV and modern wow are not mmorpgs, they're co-op action games.

>it's another faggot thinks Warcraft is WoW episode.

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I just like the grinding and all the cute outfits and customization of MMOs, and having a feeling of people being around, but not actually interacting with them.

That doesn't sound very conducive to interesting, personal storytelling. You just kill stuff? The same stuff everyone else is killing? It just respawns? How does that make any sense if the world is supposed to be a persistent one that you can make your mark on? Or is that only when it's story time?

It says a lot when my best FC is one that barely talks. We still do shit together but there's no obnoxious gay shit in the chat or constant whining.

When's the last time warcraft was anything more than wow?

>people keep hunting animals but somehow animals still exist, lol wtf

yeah, and ff14 is a good game first, that happens to be an mmo. Get fucked.

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warcraft 3 reforged :^)

>hey lets go hunt animals every day in the same spot, surely they will just keep existing forever
>this is truly the peak of mmos, an incredible, personal world and tale

>he thinks war4 is ever happening
It's been 16 years and all you're getting is a retconned 3 to match WoW

>mmorpg without any of the things that make the genre good
No thanks, ill stick with private servers for older mmos.

>nexon

I've learned that lesson already friend.

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You mean the 'lets remake Warcraft 3 to have areas more like WoW'? fuck, why is Blizzard monkey's paw incarnate.

>obnoxious gay shit
This bothered most, 80% of the discussion was some RPing faggot shit and spamming their inside jokes. Only tera has been worse due to the huge amount of pedos

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You don't need dynamic ecosystems to tell stories, the game's fuckin' 21 years old

The idea that a world is alive. And no I don't mean that story-based bullshit where they just change your setting.
>have to spend so much time in each town that you actually get to know it
>see the same people around the server rather than an endless stream of whos
>talk to strangers for help and partying
>progression slow enough to get to show off your fuckin shitty level 25 armor to your homies
>guilds that RP as bad guys fucking shit up
>leveling systems that make you actually feel in danger when you're out of your zone
>leveling systems that let you feel like a god when you're overleveled
>jobs that are integrated into gameplay rather than some side shit solely for making money
>Action House not being a major gameplay element
>server events that get tons of people together

That's not some exhaustive list but it's shit like that which got me liking RS and Silkroad so much when I was younger.

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Ultima online had a living breathing ecosystem.

massivelyop.com/2018/01/06/richard-garriott-talks-about-how-players-destroyed-ultima-onlines-ecology/

Since the very beginning, user.
WC3 is still a great game, while WoW has always been shit.
You've missed the point, user. Back in the day WoW started as a pretty bad game and a "based on Warcraft" lore. And since there was a shittonne of faggots playing WoW, Blizzard decided to retcon Warcraft lore and make WoW official part of the universe. Unfortunately every single bit about WoW was a pure degradation.
To summarise, Warcraft is a series of good and decent games, while WoW is a soulless cashgrab - it's just as bad as "Warcraft mobile match three" game would be.

So you can suspend your disbelief for killing millions of bears for hours on end and the world is still believable and the story and world don't suffer for it?

Is that a real question?
WoW makes a shittonne of money, user. WC3 does not. No wonder they want to make everything of Warcraft WoWlike.

The past expansion actually explains why you are the way you are and the chosen one, something that is almost never done convincingly or even attempted

A good MMO presents the players with a world for them to feel like a part of. The world has to have many facets of it that stay relevant not just because the devs force it to but because the players want it to. Players need to have room to expand and find new ways to play and have fun.

FFXIV is a bad MMO primarily because it doesn't allow players much wiggle room, if any. Mechanics and Jobs are all do-or-die, the second you step in you already know exactly what to do and it's mostly just a matter of pressing [accept] on the next dialogue box and moving to the map marker. There are no dialogue boxes, which means players wind up ignoring /s because you can't get someone's attention via proximity, making every map feel like a pointless hub, instead of cities being bustling.
The real nail in the MMO coffin is having bad world design. Every single map in FFXIV is a hallway with monsters in it. FATEs become irrelevant because level sync is unfun, so you just run past them instead of helping your fellow players out. Once you hit the level cap, you fall into an endgame vacuum where most of the world stops existing to you. You do the latest raid and story progress because that's all you are to this world; some anomalous chosen one half the time, waiting for Yoshi to tell you to go mash enter on another 20 minutes of poorly written dialogue boxes and kill a pack of enemies.
People complain back and forth about WoW's faction system, but it really brought the world to life. For the first and last time, players were part of a world, part of a faction. Players were encouraged to have pride in their faction, to feel for the world. It brought with it uncertainty that isn't simply countered by watching a guide on youtube. Things like that form community, which is why WoW is still breathing despite them cocking things up time and time again.

FFXIV isn't that bad a game. It's a travesty of an MMORPG, though.

>
Oh, shit, I meant to adress this fellow here

>You've missed the point, user
Your point is that xiv is a good game. But it's the same trash as every other modern mmo.

They get into Reddit tier jokes as well. You know like stuff where someone will change one letter or reword something so it's the same thing over and over again.

Example:
ATONE with your life!
Seek forgiveness with being dead xD

It's a bad example but I hope you get what I mean.

Illusion of choice

Sounds like the opposite experience I've had with XIV.

No, it's not. I'm sorry for all the misunderstanding.

good goyim, you're going to be following that guide on youtube anyways, what's the point of wasting money on game design, just look at these pretty skyboxes
don't think, just push these buttons like we told you to, here's a shiny new purple jerkin with more numbers

>I hope you get what I mean
Yeah i do, that crap was comedy gold with those people in my fcs too.

You're a fucking idiot.

most MMO players deep down want to self-insert into a fantasy world like an isekai protagonist. only MMOs can claim to offer this experience because they have real people and evolving content. the problem is that when everyone is protagonist, nobody is. in a world where all players are equal, most are just as worthless in the game as in real life. that's why theme park MMOs were created. they offer the illusion of MMO content while actually being just a glorified railroad that takes you from one scenario to the next, giving you lots of opportunities to be told how special you are and letting you beat up big enemies in safe instanced environments.

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Why is there no isekai anime like FFT or Muv Luv?

I think xiv is way too overhyped

The game is pretty good.
I'm not a big fan of the community though. They remind me of the people you'll see at work in which they'll try to compete each other to the top or circlejerk over how nice they are.

I think xiv needs to be hyped more.

Liking MMORPGs is directly proportionate to age and how much value your life is.

In short, if you're over 25 and play MMORPGs and enjoy it then you're probably a wastoid nolifer which shit taste.

It's just FOTM in a barren market.

It's literally Octopath Traveller all over again.

It is

This is what happens in 2019 when popular games get content marginally better than previous content instead of significantly worse, as is standard.

That said I still spend most my time playing it, but pre-ShB no one cared and it’s really no different.

>see at work in which they'll try to compete each other to the top or circlejerk over how nice they are.
God damn you nailed it, I never could put the overall vibe the playerbase has into words.

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So you’re saying

we live in a society

I don't have a fc or friends that play FFXIV, I played all main story and side quest content by myself, yet I enjoy it greatly.

based.mp3