I like real time with pause combat in rpgs. Where is this new found obsession with turn based combat on the internet coming from?
RTwP
-feels more dynamic
-better for smaller and frequent combat encounters
-most of the time you want to auto-attack anyway
-doesn't create a break between combat and the rest of the game
You could include an option that auto-pauses every so often and you get the same effect as turn based.
JRPG-faggots.
I thought so. I actually like turn based games like FF-Tactics or Xcom, where the focus is on single big combat encounters, but not in an RPG, where you get interrupted by three goblins every so often.
good JRPGs actually solves this very well because these encounters are over very quick and don't require much thought, and it's not overhead combat
>feels more dynamic
How?
>better for smaller and frequent combat encounters
Except for making them take forever
>most of the time you want to auto-attack anyway
That's shit design regardless of combat system
>doesn't create a break between combat and the rest of the game
Neither does turn based
you're pausing the game every second to issue orders anyway, so why not make it less horrible by removing the real time part of it
>>feels more dynamic
>How?
Not him but:
If the only thing you have to do is hit the HP pinata without strategy because for some reason you came back in an underleved area or something, you have to move, and move, and hit, and wait turn, and hit, and wait turn, 10 minutes for a shitty encounter.
With RTwP, it take 20 seconds of real time. You don't have to wait a full round to queue the exact same action. You just wait 10 more seconds before hitting space and adapting your strategy to the new situation. You can give your order in a non sequential way, queue them way faster than you would with turn based system. And if you really need to take your time for your next action because its a challenging combat, you have all the time you need to, and can change your strategy mid-action if you spot a mistake on your side.
I like this system and I'm sad its not used that much.
epic hyperbole senpai
>feels more dynamic
Micromanaging with a gorillion pauses isn't more dynamic, it's a pain in the ass
>better for smaller and frequent combat encounters
[citation needed]
>most of the time you want to auto-attack anyway
If you play garbage games yes, unfortunately that's what most CRPG, especially with RTwP, consist of so I can understand where you come from, but you should get better tastes, even Bradleyshit Wizardry is more involved and strategic that Infinity engine games and it's boring as sin.
>doesn't create a break between combat and the rest of the game
You mean freezing time and reissuing orders constantly doesn't create a break?
Are you serious?
This is some next level of delusion, no wonder there's already the usual obsessed neckbeard who screeches about JRPGs.
Real time pause is trash, to be completely efficient you have to pause like 10,000 times. Half the time you have to pause just to fight the stupid pathfinding. Turn based like FFT or XCOM is much better than any real time pause game.
It's incredibly mindless.
RTwP is basically for games where the gameplay doesn't matter and you're going along for the story/world.
>-better for smaller and frequent combat encounters
Which shouldn't be a thing. Fuck having encounters that don't actually matter.
>-most of the time you want to auto-attack anyway
Not in a game that has good mechanics.
do i have to play bg1 to get into bg2?
>Where is this new found obsession with turn based combat on the internet coming from?
I have genuinly no idea. It feels like some sort of manufactured meme that somehow ended up sticking (probably because it made people genuinly upset).
People have been discussing BG for ages without anyone ever complaining about the fact that you had to manually pause your turns, and now suddenly you can't have a single threads without people meme:ing about turn-based.
RTwP is for autistic spergs who don’t like strategy or meaningful combat. Just spam attack bro.
but I am playing PoE r8 now (my first RTwP) and I'm using strategy every time, sneaking up slowly and placing my dudes and then luring enemies into my trap
>Where is this new found obsession with turn based combat on the internet coming from?
The reason why turn-based is prevalent in WRPGs these days isn't because some autists are crying about RTwP but because RTwP's micromanagement is basically incompatible with gamepads hence consoles.
Still more proof that mouse and keyboard is the true way.
this. It's just faster and smoother usually, while you can also take as much time as you want.
In an rpg where you play as a group an encounter with some random wolf shouldn't require some awesome tactics and epic battle.
Thanks, makes me feel more sane that I'm not the only one noticing this. Consoles could be the answer, they force you to go either full action combat or turn based. RTwP is clearly to be controlled by mouse.
This is the worst type of battle system. Kill yourself autist.
Hell no. BG1 is largely a slog. All the best stuff is in the sequel.
No, but it gives you more background and attachment to characters, and also it's a good game in itself. If you can't get into it then jump straight to 2.
>shouldn't require some awesome tactics and epic battle
oh, so you're playing like shit and it doesn't matter because the game is shit? I see, tell me more
yes because if you don't have an autistic urge to complete everything, you dont' belong here
>but because RTwP's micromanagement is basically incompatible with gamepads hence consoles.
You do know there's RTwP games on the fucking SNES of all things, do you?
Of course. It sets up important characters and has the city that the series is named after. It's not as good as BG2 is and low level D&D is kinda wack, but it has it's moments and should be at least played once. Kinda like NWN2's original campaign. Also BG2 is a DIRECT sequel. It happens right after BG1 ends.
conveniently leaving out I mean a battle with some trash mob. Go play Dark Souls.
already did
name ONE (1) game that does this
No surprise there. But we are talking CRPGs here.
It's just RTS style gameplay with a pause feature. I never understand why it makes autists so salty. The characters' toolbars are fairly customizable and you should be able to access your most important spells, items and abilities with ease. The pause is there when you need to adjust a lot on the fly. It's a fine system for party based crpgs.
Bounty Sword.
I fucking loathe real time with pause. It's the main reason I can't enjoy games like PoE and Pathfinder:Kingmaker.
>I'm using strategy every time, sneaking up slowly and placing my dudes and then luring enemies into my trap
But you don't have to
There's turn based options out there like ToEE a d Underrail
yes I do have to cause when I don't, I get wiped out
playing on hard
I dislike it because those games generally become a big mess. Characters that should move in sync, move all over the place because guy1 wasn't done with his attack animation when the order was boven, while guy2 is already charging his spell. This delay makes it that guy1 doesn't leave quick enough and gets hit by the spell in full force.
It's annoying and it doesn't serve any purpose. Make it real time with proper AI so you don't need to micro your companions (like in DA:O), or make it turn-based. Realtime with pause is obnoxious and shouldn't be a thing. I'll never understand why people enjoy it.
ToEE is ancient and also pretty clunky to play nowadays, it's the only good D&D based game out there, but the general user interface and input design is a mess.
>better for smaller and frequent combat encounters
>Except for making them take forever
What the actual fuck man? Please explain your reasoning on how real time with pause makes combat take LONGER than turn based?
It basically came from RTS games. I think with them dying out and games moving to console people aren't used to that style of combat anymore.
So you're just bad?
I know, I play turn-based (c)RPGs all the time. I just really like those type of games, which is why I'm slightly annoyed by their choice of making those games real time with pause. I mean, it's their choice and evidently not for me, so I just don't play it, but I wish there was a turn-based option for them.
It's about the ability to make good and bad decisions. In a turn based game you make very clear decisions every time it's your turn, often with an immediate result you can judge. With real time pause it's much less defined, you can pause at any moment to optimize your gameplay, but when should you? It becomes a battle of laziness vs. excessive pausing. It doesn't feels satisfying to play well, because playing well means a LOT of pausing and very slow gameplay.
It's RTS gameplay for casuals. Why do you need pause? Git gud
you realize the auto pause isnt the same as beeing turn based right?
the characters stll all act at the same time and this means that melee attacks are essentialy turn based while spells arent.
RTWP is a shit system and if you like it you are an IQ 60 subhuman
Your arguments are both shit. If an encounter is easy in turn-based, it won't take you much longer than if it was real time with pause. Look at the D:OS games. You just right click the baddy and it evaporates. Easy combat encounters take maybe a minute, which would be half a minute in real time. If that's too annoying for you, then you might have ADD or some shit.
i imagine it is harder to make ai for real time combat
So they don't actually take longer and you just made a completely bullshit argument in the first place? Got it.
>combat that happens frequently takes half the time
>it's basically the same bro!
You'd rather see a realtime mmo-style cooldown ability spamfest, or perhaps you would have it completely turnbased? I see no problem with RTWP for these types of games.
RTS with pause is awful.
I much prefer turn based.
The total war games had this and they are great. The combat in those games is more of a spectacle though.
Has anyone demanded Total War games to be turn based? Or has the autism not reached there?
Because it would be another indication that the turn-based meme swapped over from jrpgs and consoles.
>you have to move, and move, and hit, and wait turn, and hit, and wait turn, 10 minutes for a shitty encounter.
Shit like this is pure strawman memes. This is exactly what RTwP plays like, not turn based. There is no 'wait turn' in turn based because you are just watching an attack animation at most, and any game worth its salt lets you speed them up or skip them, plus slow animations are entirely independent of battle system, even outright action RPGs have slow combat/animations pretty often. The pause in RTwP effectively makes it turn based for issuing commands however when you unpause you have to sit and wait for them to play out otherwise there would be no real time component.
If you are constantly facing easy fights then you need to turn up the difficulty you faggot. You're literally complaining that a 30 second encounter would take a minute in a game where good encounters are sometimes 20 minutes long.
>most of the time you want to auto-attack anyway
This is the problem. It's shit combat design. You shouldn't win most combat encounters with auto-attack or at least you shouldn't win without taking serious damage and losing significant resources in some way for playing like a retard. If it's not some action game I want combat to be meaningful and to require at least some level of tactics and positioning in order to do well. If you can easily beat encounters with fucking auto-attack then the combat is shitty and boring. It's totally mindless and it shouldn't be designed like that.
Why even have such encounters in the game? Why have 'combat' which you win automatically without any sort of significant involvement or effort from the player?
name one series that switched from real time to turn based or vice versa
If you weren't a braindead retard, you'd see that I'm saying both your arguments are retarded, meaning I'm not the guy who made the first (retarded) argument, nor the second.
Goddamnit this board is going to shit, newfaggots are too stupid to even read.
>require at least some level of tactics and positioning
but that's what you do in a RTwP game. You just don't have to click attack over and over again until it's resolved.
Total war games are basically real time. The pause is a crutch for casuals. You can't pause in online matches. It's almost an entire different genre that doesn't even compare to what 'real time with pause' means for cRPGs.
No, it's what you do in turn-based. In RTwP you move your character somewhere and it starts autoattacking, OR you pause after every attack to make it perform an ability or reposition, which makes it technically a worse turn-based game.
Both scenarios are shit.
But if you don't pause you get some units you didn't notice just standing there while the enemy crossbows them for 10 minutes straight.
It's literally a fact that RTwP is just more casual friendly. It doesn't require tactics the majority of the time, combat practically resolves itself. If you want combat to be deep and strategic, you need turn based in order to make proper decisions each time.
It's fine if you like one or the other, but let's stick with the facts. Anyone claiming RTwP is somehow equally deep and complex as turn-based is being dishonest.
user, don't be fucking blind
I said it's there for casuals, didn't I? In multiplayer, distracting your opponent is an actual strategy for exactly that reason. If you have half a brain, you can manage your army fine without ever needing to pause.
I do use the slomo often, because I enjoy how fights look. Certainly with the Warhammer games with the monsters.
You really want to use Baldurs gate as your example a good real time combat system? It's actually turn based (or "round based"), it's just running in real time and the game doesn't tell you when the rounds begin or end so you’re always wasting whole turns before your commands are actually executed. It's kind of the worst of both worlds in that way, but it was very ambitious for its time so you can't get too mad at it.
People like BG2 for its genuinely impressive mechanical depth way more than it's cumbersome and frustrating "Real Time, But Actually Turn Based, With Pause" combat system.
No you don't, if you "just have to click attack over and over" to win then the encounter is not meaningful and does not require significant effort for the player, hence shit design. That's the point, you should not win if all you do is press the default attack button over and over.
What fascinates the most is that the people who claim to hate pause rpg:s seem to have no clue how to actually and fairly assess gameplay mechanics.
Like, they bitch about the difference about turn-based and pausing, but their complaints are super superficial without any appriciation for actual gameplay differences between the mechanics, such as
>with pausing, every characters moves in real time, while with turn-based, characters move on their turn
>abilities in turn based have cooldowns which are based on rounds. Abilities in pause have cooldowns based on time
>turn-based tend to have closed maps and linear encounters while pause tend to have free encounters where the fighters can move freely across the map
>turn-based tend to allow play slower because of the need to repeat commands and watch animations, while real time tends to play a bit faster
>turn-based gives a bit more precise control to the player, while pause can trip you up if target starts running or map pathing is bad
I mean the OG isometric dnd games had a literal option for pausing at every 6 second round, effectively turning the game into a turn-based game.
Real-time with pause combines the worst things about real-time and turn-based with zero advantages. Moving around and attacking in real-time is more fluid and satisfying but isn't very tactical. Turn-based combat is tactical and lets you do exactly what you want but is slower.
Real-time with pause sacrifices fluidity and speed of encounters for inferior tactics.
>real time
>posts baldurs gate
it's still round based you turbo retard
so much wrong with this post I don't know where to start
Turnbased is better. Look up The Temple of Elemental Evil. I wish all D&D games has adopted the turnbased combat.
>People have been discussing BG for ages without anyone ever complaining about the fact that you had to manually pause your turns, and now suddenly you can't have a single threads without people meme:ing about turn-based.
Because these CRPG "revival" games try to make things like the "good old days" which weren't actually good and were inferior in scope and depth to even Ultima and Wizardry, all while ignoring over 20 years of refinement and improvement. They're anachronisms.
Feel free to start wherever rather than making an empty claim
>i imagine it is harder to make ai for real time combat
Nope. The AI is the same, it simply runs on invisible turns that are working from a hidden ingame clock.
Yeah, I agree that Pillars of Eternity was genuine kusoge.
Like, why the fuuuuuck did every fucking character have like 10 different buttons that had to be pressed every turn when all they did was about the same as being affected by the bless spell in BG?
>zero advantages
>mentions fluidity and speed
ok
>all while ignoring over 20 years of refinement and improvement.
where are those refinements and improvements though
ITT: Turn based waterheads who seethe at the fact they lost to real time games and cry themselves to sleep because they can't take turns in real life.
None really, considering that Pathfinder:Kingmaker was the best implementation of the isometric rpg so far, and they literally just rolled it back to how it used to be in BG (though the cast timer is pretty neat).
The biggest issue with turn-based games is that the whole game turns into one huge arena. For instance, the fact that D:OS2 is turn-based is the worst part of the game, because once you enter combat you lose the freedom that out-of-combat gave you and you feel like you entered an "encounter room". That shit is just unfun compared to kiting some bullshit enemies across the map in BG1
i like both
Yeah, for real time. RTwP is designed to be paused regularly, to issue commands. This makes it lose its fluidity, in order to give combat less depth than it would have had in a turn-based system. It excels at neither.
Funny you say that DOS2 is ruined by turn-based, while I literally think Kingmaker is ruined by RTwP.
Doesn't kingmaker have a turn based mode? I dropped it because its hideous, the companions are trash, the custom companions have a lesser point but than the MC and the kingdom management is a tedious chore.
DOS2 is ruined by the armor mechanics. I play all sorts of games (Shadowrun, FFT with hardmode mod, etc), I can appriciate different game mechanics and I don't particularly mind turn-based. I do think DOS2 is weaker as a game during combat than it is outside combat though, but at the same time I thought Shadowrun/mechwarrior had pretty fun turn-based combat. I believe its because the DOS2 combat system just fits poorly to the DOS2 map design and player experience.
>because once you enter combat you lose the freedom that out-of-combat gave you and you feel like you entered an "encounter room
I feel thats my biggest gripe with turn-based. It makes it more artificial and restricts your options, while also being less immersive. Though Fallout I think did it pretty well in that regard.
RTwP is mainly time saver the battle that you can get over in 30 second will take 3 minutes with turn based combat system
Yes just set auto-pause to every 6 seconds or something.
>DOS2 is ruined by the armor mechanics
Yeah I actually agree with you, but for me it's not 'ruined'. It is a design choice I don't agree with though. I just use mods to make some CC go through.
It does? I tried finding an option like that but couldn't. Was it there from the start or added later?
Best isometric rpg implementation sofar was TOEE in its finished version.
yeah bro why would an easy fight exist just to burn up a spell slot or two haha softening up the party isn't a thing
>abilities have cool downs base on rounds
Begone Larianigger
People on here don't think for themselves, they see one post where someone hates RTwP and now they do too. RTWP is great.
Oh yeah. Terrible compromise.
I find turn based to be faster because I can fly through the menus by muscle memory since the context is always the same. I don't have to wait for my dudes to get into position and junk or pay attention to how they are moving.
I like Realtime with Pause if I only control 1 or 2 people.
5 or 6 is just stressful and annoying as fuck.
oh no no no no
I genuinely don't even care about RTwP or turn-based and the apparently massive,sprawling argument between the two just mystifies me more than anything.
I noticed this first with the Torment kickstarter. They announced they would have RTwP and suddenly there was this big push on the internet to make it turn-based, without people actually knowing anything about the game. It ended up being turn-based, which in that case was prob better.
Ever since then I see this hate for RTwP. But it wasn't ever a big issue before.
BG is actually fully turn-based with an illusion of real-time.
The only reason I dont hate RTWP is because I played them all multiplayer. With friends everything is better : D
Fuck all the new ones being singleplayer
AP based turn based is my favorite, followed by real time with pause. Wish more games would use AP
It was there since DA:O got released.