Did Sharding kill retail WOW?

Did Sharding kill retail WOW?

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Why are all the horde players either blood elves or undead? Is retail really that bad?

Outdated graphics, engine, combat system and graduation of people who knew wc3 killed it trashfest.

fucking elves ruined the horde

A lot of little things killed it but sharding really didn't help in the slightest

Can I get a quick rundown on sharding

Pandering to antisocial casuals who want to play WoW like a single player game killed retail. I was there from the beginning and I watched as patch by patch, expansion by expansion Blizzard removed a little of the "World" from World of Warcraft. I saw how people would try to fight it on the forums only to be told YOU DONT HAVE TO PLAY THAT WAY, IT WONT AFFECT YOU. People don't seem to understand that seemingly innocuous changes that make the game (or life) better for them can have negative affects on the product (or society) as a whole

Paid subscription killed the game, should have gone f2p a long time ago.

Its when a tard shits his pants when he meant to fart.

Blizzard though it was a good idea to take the massivley multiplayer part out of "mmo" and make it more like a single player game.

So how do we combat the Blood Elf Druid menace?

HM tauren below pandas
Finally not dead last.

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WoW killed WoW. Don't think even 10% of people who bought bfa still play.

god nu-orgrimmar is fucking awful

>Blizzard said no one wanted to play as High Elves
>BE are the most popular race in WOW
>shocked Pikachu face

the undead leveling quest line is shit and it only got worse with the xpacs

worse they're ugly even in armour

So question, why not get rid of sharding and just merge a bunch of servers?

Fuck off to Facebokk/Imgur/wherever you came from with this shitty meme.

It's basically instances used in the open world. It separates players into "shards" to help with server load. Makes the world feel empty and turns an MMO into an O.

The thing killing WoW can't just be pointed to one thing. Thousand Cuts, some way bigger than others, and the incompetence of the people who tried to pass those on as good features for the long term health of the game and choosing to double down on it instead of admitting it wasn't working, chucking it out the window, and stitch the wounds closed.

>talking to someone
>he suddenly disappear and you never see them again

Kinda. Shards are like instances in the overworld, say in Stormwind you have mutiple chards active at the same time and you can get moved from one to the other once that shard is full. It really removes the mmo aspect since you can easily find yourself in a desolate city. It also fucks around with quests or gathering when a mob disappears right in front of you tough that might've been fixed by now, or mining nodes that you're mining right now are just gone that is still happening.

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they're the go to race if you dont want to play as a hunchback who can barely wear shoes

You know what's really sad about this image, Capital Cities don't actually have sharding outside of player made groups.

because it would be bad PR for blizz. admitting there are dead servers would be admitting that the game is on a decline, which could hurt the game's and thus the company's valuation. sharding was created to merge servers without officially merging them.

>play mmo
>want sp game
Why not play a sp-game to begin with?

Dark Iron, Goblin, HM Tauren, Lightforged, Kul Tiran, Mag'har, and Nightborne are all below Pandas.

>horrible clipping issues with their antlers
>locked behind a rep grind in outdated content
>mediocre racials
>basically an afterthought, took Blizzard months to make the balance druid form not have regular Tauren horns
>have access to less classes than real Tauren, basically a downgrade
There are several reasons barely anyone plays them.

But Ion said that people LOVE lfr/lfg.

What does he actually know about the game? I'm not trying to be coy, he was the founding member of Elitist Jerks, but the man doesn't seem to understand the game at all. He's managed to build one of the worst expansions in WoW's history, because he just doesn't get the fuckin' game. Maybe nobody told Ion that you don't find life in a spreadsheet.

LRG saved the game for me. Saves me the trouble of walking to a fucking dungeon or raid and I can just teleport there now.

>3% more fem pandas than male ones

Based.

What the fuck was the point in Pandas?

I just realized they're using female for alliance. Oh well.

HM is the only one out of the first patch of AR's that I leveled because they were still rather the most inoffensive to me compared to the others. Plus I went shaman and could essentially wear 3 totems with their Heritage Armor.
Though once I was done getting that, I stopped playing because there were so many red flags for BfA and god damn I thought it couldn't get worse than WoD.

to appeal to bugmen

That would be possible with summoning stones alone anyway. The guy who wants a group is at the entrance most of the time anyway.

Bugman?

>Plus I went shaman and could essentially wear 3 totems with their Heritage Armor.
What does playing Shaman have to do with that?

This was a roleplaying guild recruitment fair. Not some example of sharding.

Elves yes, undead no.

chinks

I used to play wow almost 15 years ago, I can't believe there are people still on at all. What a garbage game and genre.

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>Resubbed for a chance at Classic
>Decide to level a Dark Iron in the meantime
>Still 23k away from 7th Legion exalted
Why did they make rep grinds so fucking terrible in the last couple expansions

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He can design raids, I give him that. But otherwise I think it's more the influence of the Diablo 3 team that got transferred to WoW that fucks shit up with rng. At least it feels that way.

Blizz knows the Horde population will tank if the Alliance got High Elves.
Void Elves are the only compromise you are gonna get.

>buy an expac that promises new races
>nowhere in the descriptions does it tell you they are gated behind an obnoxious outdated grind
>half of the races don't come out till a year later
lmao at bfa buyers

I think if they removed sharding or implemented layering into retail. It would bring back a better server community. People would start to notice the same people more and people can be held accountable more. They also should combine a load of severs which I think would help.

WoW is for fags and if you play it, you're gay

>He can design raids, I give him that.
>We're gonna balance raids for 25 man
>But also require very specific raid compositions for multiple fights
>Now stand in these 37 different places over the course of the fight or the raid wipes
>Don't worry about itemizing for fights just have a bigger number
>Oh woops a racial ability breaks the encounter to the point that guilds faction change better nerd it lmao

Zoomers seriously think anything in BfA is a hard rep grind? God help you in Vanilla.

Void Elves are stupid and make no sense lore wise.

What if I only play it to RP gay sex with cow men?

>go to goldshire to turn in my quest
>quest mark is on mini map but npc isnt
>did horde kill him?
>go to the inn to turn in other quests
>the missing npc appears out of nowhere

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We need more worgens to play the game

Blizzard doesn't give a fuck.

you take that back

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i had a server first nether drake i am okay with a grind i am not okay with deceptive preorder practices.
obnoxious doesn't explicitly imply difficult or timeconsuming

It's not hard, it's slow, boring, and annoyingly incremental
You get a big chunk every week then fuck you have a whopping 75 rep for travelling accross the continent and killing a large boar

But on the other hand it mighjt very well be needed for server stability

undead females are one of the best races because of that sick frontal flip chop they do as warriors.

>have access to less classes than real Tauren, basically a downgrade
So does the lightforged, and I bet their numbers are about the same as regular draenei

nice hunchback and BONES fag

>People tell me the appeal of the game is how lively and immersive the game is
>Players literally swarm around aimlessly like fucking flies and vanish into thin air if you move half an inch away

How the fuck could anyone play this shit? HOW THE FUCK COULD ANYONE PAY A MONTHLY FEE FOR THIS SHIT?

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>Make over $15M a month on subscditpions alone at the lowest point in its life
>Can't afford servers that support more than 100 people
Blizzard deserves to rot

Pandas were never last if you counted both factions

Stop larping fagtron
75 rep was considered "a large chunk" in vanilla. All the endgame in Vanilla was designed to take months of effort.

How long do the allied races take to get?

>The server costs are too high!
The bean counter complained.
The developers eventually found the issue: When many players stand to each other, they all start sending packages to every other player, so the number of packages sent grows exponentially with the numbers of players in one area.
>FIX IT, FIX IT NOW, MUH PWOFITS!!! REDUCE MUH COSTS! I WANT MUH PWOFITS! MUH CURRENT BUSINESS YEAR!!!
cried the bean counter.
So the developers implemented sharding, reducing server cost but also reducing profits due to mass unsubscription from the "Massive Multiplayer" online role play game that no longer is one.

When is the last time a bean counter has made a decision that hasn't completely fucked over a game?

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they're about half if this chart is anything to go by

You make it sound simple

>jealous of bc players
figures you were a wrathbaby bitch idiot
sit kid

Weeks, they aren't worth getting because world quests are fucking boring. You'd unlock new races just to do more shitty world quests.

>people thought Zandalari were going to be popular

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Imagine the smell.

Nigga 75 rep was half a zandalari bijou that you could be for a single gold
A Strat UD run could give you 1k rep at a time if you were lucky with scouegestone drops
Going from hated to Exalted Brood of Nozdormu took like a month of progressing through AQ40 at most
Rep grinds didn't suck then because you got rep by doing things in the game, not waiting for the game to tell you it's time for a menial task for almost nothing
Except Timbermaw rep, fuck that noise

>buzzwords
Don't be mad because you're an underage fuccboi, and missed out prime WoW. Vanilla will never come back, ADD riddled zoomers like yourself won't last a month

>highest percent of allied races behind edge elves
>not popular

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Anyone else really wish Blizzard made Paladin class available to worgen?
I really wish I had such an opportunity.
Worgen are my favourite race but paladin is my fav class.
I wish I could combine one and one together.

>femdead
patrician

But unlike Vanilla there is a reason to grind rep now

>plastic meets oil

yiff in hell

Blizzard decided Kul Tirans can't be paladins so why the fuck would Worgen get them

>zandalari bijou
Were hoarded by guilds until late vanilla for shoulder enchants.You're right about getting rep for just clearing raids though. Winterspring was bullshit too, as was bloodsail.

kul tirans are clearly too fat to fit in plate armour, they'd never work as paladins

Seeing how there are more of them then there are dwarfs, worgen and gnomes I'd say that they are popular.

because they can be priests
they have a huge ass Light Church in their capital
Class/race restrictions are irrilevant and obsolete at this point

??? they're more numerous than worgen, goblins, gnomes, dwarves and several 2 races combined. Are you having a stroke?

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>tauren rogue

Night elves and undead can be priests are well, let's make them paladins as well.

Yet there is a legit Ogre rouge exist in game

Was the hybrid tax a necessary evil?
With every spec being viable everyone just plays a fucking druid now.

If we are to accept the Tauren pallies, I would have no problem with Night Elves as paladins as long as it was explained as them being warriors of Elune
Undeads are canonically all shadow priests aside from Faol

There is a NE paladin that could be met in-game already.
As for undead I can't see why not considering Blizzard introduced the lightforged concept

it was simple over a decade ago, it's simpler now

contemporary blizz is just incompetent

Considering Night Elf paladins were hinted at in Legion and Lightforged Undead are a possible Alliance allied race, those are more likely than you think.

don't forget fashionable hairstyle and Cam Clarke's voice.

>Was the hybrid tax a necessary evil?
Yes. Druids are cancer to class balance, are the loudest complainers(after mages), and are Caydiems pet class.

There are NE Paladins

you literally first find him in prison

not to mention he doesn't have hooves

One of the biggest differences between Vanilla and BfA grinds, is that with BfA grinds, you know you're not earning anything.

In Vanilla, you had an unknown scope of time. When you did that grinding, it was grinding for the forseeable future of your character. Expansions were unheard of at that point, and people weren't sure what the model for WoW was going to be. Based on the presentation of the game, you would do Dungeons, then Tier 1, then Tier 2 etc etc. so you were always building something onto your character.

But now in BfA, expansions are so routine, that a grind is just a grind. We know that in a year, that grind will be made completely obsolete. We know that it will have been an utterly worthless endeavour instantly invalidated by new content. Hell, grinds might not even be rewarding for a full expansion, you might just get a fat 'fuck you we bumped the item levels by 40 go grind more mythic+ you stupid fuckin' button pressing pigeon'.

And I'll say it straight up, MMOs should not reset with every expansion, nevermind every fucking raid tier. There is no progression, there is no grind that feels valid doing, because you know deep down how utterly pointless that grind is. You know it's going to be invalidated. And you can tell yourself otherwise because the dopamine rush of a titanforged item gave you the tinglies, but you know, really. The other serious consequence, is there's never a good time to start playing WoW anymore. With no progression, people stop playing as soon as they clear content: why? Because if they did keep grinding it, it would be invalidated in the next content patch. Their gear would be made worthless. So why earn it? Earn enough to beat the content and move on. Even as a returning player, there's never a good time to come back to WoW, because you'll always be behind, and any progress you make will be invalidated in the next fuckin' patch.

Because in BfA you can't grind.
I liked the Suramar content so I long had exalted and could roll a Nightborne upon release, but getting rep again is because most of what you can do is limited world quests and the rep gated quest chain.
In WoW if I wanted to get my Argent Dawn rep up I just needed to equip a trinket and slaughter undead.
I could go as slow or as fast as I wanted, and my time and desire were the only mitigating factors in how much rep I got in a day.
Ironically Cata did this perfectly where you wore a tabard and just did the shit you wanted to do to get rep. It took time, you had to visually represent the faction, and if you didn't like dungeons there were still dailies you could do or vice versa.

as I understand it (it's getting harder and harder to keep up with wow lore), lightforged aren't the same as forsaken. forsaken are void-undead while lightforged are light-undead. they're basically just elementals; one a water-elemental and the other a fire-elemental.

anyway, a void-undead shouldn't be able to wield the light. far as I know, there's only one known void-undead paladin, part of the argent dawn, and he's some special exception who keeps himself together through force of will or something in spite of his own class powers harming him constantly
though lightforged-undead shouldn't be able to wield the void either

>is that with BfA grinds, you know you're not earning anything.
You act like Vanilla was different

its actually way more complicated now
decade ago you had that massive 200ms time for batching spells which made the load on servers much lower
and also very few and low spell effects
compare it to today where batching is every 20ms which is x10 faster coupled with shit ton of more character stats, armor, spells, effects, procs etc.
servers simply shit themselves
sure blizzard is being stingy and could very well upgrade to better server tech at much greater cost but its still way more demanding

I do, because there was, because when you got something in vanilla it felt like it had permanence. It wasn't transient. It wasn't for one patch, or one expansion. It felt like that was your reward to keep.

There's more Zandalari than Dwarves, who had a fifteen year head start.
They're pretty fucking popular.

I still can't believe Blizzard has the gall to buff dungeon loot to being better than the previous fucking raid tier

Why do people complain about LRG so much? Do you guys not remember Vanilla? Do you not remember spamming NEED A TANK, NEED A TANK, NEED A TANK over and over?

Forsake are not related to the void.
Therefore they can be Lightforged theoretically. Especially considering there is a Kalia Menethill as an example now.
Even demons can be lightforged. Anyone but the void touched.

wow needs seriously a soft reboot

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It's a bad thing because the majority of people aren't retarded like you.

t. children

Classic could be in the event Blizz goes the OSRS route.
Not that that would ever happen though.

We live in a product (society)

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Being required to form your own groups encouraged networking with people you enjoyed playing with, possibly even having it form into a guild community over time

is that why people quit left and right before TBC and why plenty of people didnt bother to do naxx at all?
you're lying to yourself
vanilla is just very scarce on mats and items, everything else is the same as today

Most people still playing WOW love LFG.

If you actually trust nu-Blizzard in the current year you deserve the incoming disappointment.

To what end? So I gained exalted with Ravenholdt what do I get for it? What do I have to show for the hours I spent getting max reputation with a bunch of thief's?

I don't see what that's got to do with anything.
Is this a bot response? Are you a literal Blizzard automation? Type 101001 to confirm.

>now in BfA, expansions are so routine, that a grind is just a grind. We know that in a year, that grind will be made completely obsolete. We know that it will have been an utterly worthless endeavour instantly invalidated by new content. Hell, grinds might not even be rewarding for a full expansion, you might just get a fat 'fuck you we bumped the item levels by 40 go grind more mythic+ you stupid fuckin' button pressing pigeon'.
yeah, it's gotten really bad now. another influence is the introduction of artifact power and how the exponentially growing weekly bonus to acquiring it works. people whine about it requiring a lot of grinding, but it's actually an anti-grind mechanic: Almost no matter how hard you grind, you'll never be more than 2-4 weeks a head of even the most casual player.

feels kinda shitty playing the game now honestly. almost everything just seems pointless.

the only two things I enjoyed in BfA were
- the first couple of weeks, when rushing to level cap and beating the content before everyone else is always a good part of MMO expansions
- raiding until you get whichever ahead of the curve achievement you personally aim for (whether that's heroic or mythic)
but after you're done with those it's pretty much just... well, playing the game feels like I'm playing fukken GW2. only thing you're really getting out of anything is more cosmetics; they've just hidden obscured it behind a lot of bullshit so it's not immediately obvious

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My main issue with LRG is buff you get that increases everything by % for each members.

(Continuing)

Not only do Blizzard routinely invalidate all character progress, but with their incessant re-tooling of the game, they invalidate any progress you feel as a player. You never get to feel mastery of your class anymore, because as soon as you do, the class will be retooled and their vision for that class will change wildly. I played a holy paladin. Jesus fucking Christ every time I come back to the game, I have to re-learn what I'm doing with a holy paladin, because they've completely stripped the old spell set because it no longer fitted into their grand vision of WoW. And they do it all the god damn time. I can't think of an expansion after Cataclysm where they *haven't* retooled at least half of the specs in the game.

And yeah, of course you get better at the game overall, you gain these sort of transferrable skills and understanding of game mechanics that can be broadly applied, but it's just.. it's alienating when you go back to a character, with which you were so familiar, and you no longer feel like it's your character. Because you don't know what's been changed. You don't know the current meta. You have an alien arsenal of abilities, and you have to re-learn how to use them. That's such a weird dynamic for an MMO. I've never seen an MMO operate in this way. Never played it, but people kicked up a shit storm of Star Wars Galaxies when they did it ONCE, but Blizzard do it every expansion and expect immunity.

And to go back to there never being a good time to start playing...
I tried playing 8.0. Terrible experience.
Now they've supposedly 'fixed' some of the borked shit, I'm behind. If I try to play now, I have no concrete place in a guild, I might as well be walled off from mythic raiding, I'd have to do grinding that I know would be invalidated very quickly..
(will continue my rant)

Most people still playing WoW are abhuman troglodytes addicted to guzzling down Blizzard's festering shit.

i love it because i can crank one out to the porn on my second monitor while i wait for the lfg queues to pop

well good thing vanilla doesn't do all that convoluted modern crap then

Moving away from an RPG with human interactions to a single player and raid once a week game killed it. Questing should always be a big part of the game and not a rush to the literal last zone/raid they made.

>but after you're done with those it's pretty much just... well
Welcome to MMO games, why do you sound so surprised for something already know. When you reach that phase of the game then you have to find other things to fill your time with, be it PVP, hunting achievements or even pet battles.

Serious question. If I were to play retail today and pick a high pop server would I even notice sharding?

it would actually be perfect for vanilla because game is very simple at the core so servers wouldn't have issues with 20ms instead of shitty 200ms

Naxx 40 had a really low completion rating. The fuck are you on about? Naxx 40 supports what I said entirely.

(Continued)

And to be clear, I don't think the game is 'too hard to enter', I don't think the game is too hard at all. But it requires such a steep time investment, into content I know full well will be invalidated shortly, to get entry to the level of content I want to do. And it's that way because the game is in such a constant state of flux. It's not the mechanics, it's not the playerbase, it's the god damn awful design decisions that keep reworking and restructuring the game at a fundamental level that makes it so inaccessible.

But Blizzard don't understand that at all. So they keep reworking the game, ironically, reproducing the same god damn mistake.

It's not about there never being change, but an MMO needs some consistency. It needs to have constants. And right now, after they've done a stat squish what, twice? They're heading for a third! It's so, god, damn, dumb.

sharding/phasing is everywhere
its good because you can just phase into other people's phase and do quest instantly instead of waiting for 10 mins for people to gather
i guess you can understand the many bad sides of it so i wont bother explaining
t. playing on Draenor (biggest EU pop)

yes. people literally fade in and out of existence around you when you're near zone borders or when one of their queues pop for dungeons.

>You never get to feel mastery of your class anymore, because as soon as you do, the class will be retooled and their vision for that class will change wildly. I played a holy paladin. Jesus fucking Christ every time I come back to the game, I have to re-learn what I'm doing
Yeah, I get this too and it's fucking awful. Every expansion, my spec's been changed and I can't get myself to keep playing it because it usually feels worse. The way they butchered a ton of classes after MoP was bad enough, then with BfA they decided it was a great idea to add a bunch of unnecessary GCDs to abilities for no justifiable reason. Even their given explanations literally don't justify many of the changes; they're just straight-up going through abilities and arbitrarily altering them with no rhyme or reason to it - and then they fucking lie to you about why they do it in their shitty Q&As or whatever they call them.

But you get over it, find a new spec you enjoy after going through a dozen of them.

Then the next expansion drops and they fucked that one up too.

>build an entire game around realms and server community
>oh shit we fucked our game up and it's dying we can't let anyone know by merging more servers uhhhhh just cross realm it all it's definitely not dying now no one will ever know!

Yeah bro, except it used to last like a year or something so you had time to get bored with it, not a month.

>Naxx 40 had a really low completion rating.
because of many factors, including only 3 month life span and people not wanting to waste time when they will replace that gear instantly upon new xpac.
Naxx 40 goes against what you said, entirely.

>Re-tooling
>Strictly bad
I can't speak for all classes, but Survival for hunters got a major re-tooling in Legion and it was one of the best thing that happened to the spec and the hunter class

Shame that BM was so fucking shit during Legion
>Naxx 40 supports what I said entirely.
It also goes against what you said because most people didn't see the point of doing it with TBC being right around the corner.

lol

Among 1000 other different things.

>we want to make wow for everyone and everyone should be able to enjoy wow! (we want more money)

>whoops we ruined the game and no one, casual or hardcore, wants to play this shit sorry please buy more store mounts

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>People don't want to do large grinds for transient content, hence why Vanilla felt rewarding
>But then why didn't people do Naxx when TBC was around the corner!
Fucking please. I didn't say Vanilla was entirely free of those issues, and the example you gave fits in with my criticisms of modern WoW and why transient content is a problem. You both know that full well.

With regards to Survival Hunters, fair enough. Like I said, it's not about no changes. But they shouldn't be constantly retooling classes. Every expansion feels like an alpha build, where they don't know what they want to do with classes.

It's a legitimate problem, but one that Blizzard just, can't see.

It's a RP server
everyone is a blood elf

Kill yourself

Why is everyone complaining about GCDs?

it sounds like you hate vertical progression in MMOs, which I can completely understand. it's a shitty system and horizontal progression is better in every way.

...

>they have lives, hopes and dreams. yesterdays tank may have been killed in a car crash today, his familiy shattered.

The only difference in Vanilla, like I already mentioned, is that things were scarce. Mats, items, mounts etc. That is the only difference. You felt more attached to item because you wouldn't replace it for a longer period of time. You would still replace it when new raid comes out.

also about classes "retooling"; funny because people on leddit (and i guess forums) are complaining now, since for every expansions classes have been reworked to some degree, except BFA (legion to bfa classes are mostly the same, with few exceptions)

Yeah I think you're right, I still think there needs to be a change in power, but it just doesn't need to be so vast that it invalidates everything before it. And yeah, because expansions are a guaranteed .0 and 3 major content patches, we all know when it's going to end.

His entire argument was that accomplishments getting replaced and made irrelevant way too quickly is what's bad
People not bothering with Naxx supports that claim

Basé et rouge pillé

I'm gonna get flamed as shit for saying this, but all the other shit about the game aside, I think the way GW2 handles character progression is the best of any MMO to date.
>Character levels capped at 80
>Mastery system changes the way you interact with the world
>The Exotic to Ascended/Legendary gear grind feels rewarding and your efforts are never invalidated

Again, I'm not saying GW2 does everything well. But its character progression system is top-tier.

no
his argument is that stuff getting replaced fast is bad, but didnt happen in vanilla
naxx alone is proof that it did happen, since naxx was in vanilla

No bud you missed the point entirely. I also said it's about the feeling of content transience, and that because we'd never had an xpac we expected our work to last. You missed the message entirely.

I've never played GW2. Played the original many, many years ago.

>Did Sharding kill retail WOW?
that's like finding half a burnt skull with bullet holes and tumors and asking if the owner drowned

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I wouldn't be surprised if they did do it better. Blizzard keeps taking steps backwards when it comes to character progression. Seriously, fuck all that scaling shit.

Naxx gear was viable up to the first raid in TBC. Especially for tanks.

>Expansions were unheard of at that point
DaoC had 3-4 expansions before WoW had even released

Bump.

I didn't miss the point. Maybe you misspoke tho.
I know what you're getting at. But you said vanilla was free from it which is not true. Every new tier almost entirely invalidated your gear from previous.
Naxx was the worst case for this. In previous patches you would have to raid to replace gear, which is toughest content. In patch after Naxx all you had to do was kill shitty boars and imps.

one of my mates said gw2 was really good but then again he had 30,000 hours in league of legends so i dont think his opinion is valid

Expansions were unheard of in WoW, and the only ways I can coceive of you misreading that is:
1) You're trying extremely hard to be right on something.
2) You're unable to process language.
Feel free to fill us in on which of those two it is.

Are they for real?

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If you turn every customer into a premium customer, you can make due even with a smaller sub base.