"People only like it because of the OCs!"

Super Paper Mario was the final straw I guess, and when future Paper Mario games were being made he cautioned them to not just port TTYD. I don't know if the lack of OCs is directly related to the decline in the writing quality or the stupid literally paper meme, but it doesn't help it.

eh there was that factor of the unknown. but yeah TTYD had way too much filler

I just like gaper mario especially mowz

I thought it was still fun.

Wait, there are actually people that think 64 is better than TTYD? What savages!

this user gets it. TTYD is terrible for repeat playthroughs, also PM64 is paced much better.

No taste. Even Super Mario RPG is better.

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TTYD is one of my personal top games of all time.
I love 64 as well
Hell looking back I even liked Super but it was the weakest of the three.

I dont want to think about Paper Mario after that point

I've always enjoyed repeat playthroughs of TTYD more than 64 so I don't get it.

hold on now, lets not go that far. SMRPG is bland shit, second worst mario RPG next to paper jam

This reminds me of that "leftist meme vs right wing meme" image.

Holy shit, who thought being this verbose was a good idea?

Nah, TTYD was better overall. The only complaint ya'll faggots ever have on it is "muh backtrcking"

the backtracking is a massive issue with TTYD and can't be ignored

You have good taste user.

Exactly

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Reminder that Miyamoto was pissed off about the OCs being more popular than the vanilla characters and he banned any other Mario games from featuring any of them

He was mad at the series being popular off of something that was so opposite to what he wants Mario to be. He hates RPGs too.

Fuck I need to back and play this again. What's the recommended level up bonus to get? BP mostly?

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He can be such a petty cunt.
>Oh no, a Mario game popular for the characters and writing, shut it down.

He killed the series out of cuntiness.

It doesn't take the game down below. At least each chapter has a lot going for it except Chapter 2 (which, hilariously enough, is designed like your average 64 chapter)
Both 64 and TTYD are easily in the top 5 Mario RPG games but you absolutely have to be braindead to think 64 is overall better. A lot of chapters are fun, but still incredibly monotonous.
Chapter 4, 5, and 6 are setup to feel even worse to go through than the constant backtracking in TTYD. At least 4 and 5 have good bosses, I suppose.
Okay conspiracy-kun, I'm sure that theory is as real as the Miyamoto-DKC quote.

He never liked the series to begin with, so yeah. By killing the non vanilla characters he killed the heart of the series, which is what he wanted. If people wanted a vanilla Mario RPG they play Mario and Luigi, which also got killed. So ultimately Miyamoto got what he wanted: no Mario RPGs.

The mandate to not feature any of the OCs in other games and his ban from ever having them in paper mario games is not a conspiracy. It's legit.

>Paper Mario will forever be dead as a franchise.
Based Miyamoto killing the RPG and OC autists before they became cancer like what happened to Yoshi.

I loved the ice area and being chased out and down the hill by that bubba dude in 64. Also when you finally get to the temple in the desert. But man that train chapter in ttyd was great in my opinion.

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What do people have against Mario having actual characters? Did they seriously get pissed off at TTYD being writter like an actual game?

>Have to go through the Twilight Trail 3 or 4 times in one chapter and then go chase General White in another chapter
>OH WOW THIS TOTALLY RUINS EVERY OTHER POSITIVE THING ABOUT THE GAME!
I'm diagnosed ADHD and I still have a better attention span than the zoomers who talk about this game.

>At least each chapter has a lot going for it except Chapter 2 (which, hilariously enough, is designed like your average 64 chapter)
what did he mean by this

This. It's in an Iwata Asks, he told them no character that wasn't in Super Mario World. Which defeats the point of why people liked the series, it's writing and characters. Miyamoto doesn't want there to be stories connected to Mario beyond "Peach gets kidnapped."

and when one of the pikmin things falls down a level in chapter 2. And the pirate chapter. and the shit with the don. and going back and forth in the train. and hunting for general white.

Only person who got truly pissed off was Miyamoto.

Chapter 1 and 2 of 64 are particularly designed like Chapter 2 of TTYD.

in what way? neither had an escort mission

It costs 3 BP for an HP/FP Badge, which both give 5. There's literally no reason to do more than a few levels on anything other than BP.

> we will never get Paper Luigi
> we will never get a Bowser+mook partners game where he has to save BJ/stop a new villain from outright destroying the Mushroom Kingdom
> we will never get a good mario rpg again
> all because some 90 year old hates plot or characterization
Oh lads I weep

>Its fans still can't decide which chapter is the worst
Too real

You should go play a side-scroller from the 90's, that sounds like it's more your speed.

It hurts.

no, think I'll stick with PM 64 and M&L instead

never understood people holding pm64 over ttyd due to complaints like backtracking when pm64 has such slow and shitty combat and literally 0 good or interesting writing

is the backtracking in ttyd bad? yes. that doesn't make pm64 a good game. literally all it has going for it is the spin move you can do on the map and tubba blubba

>We will never Paper Luigi

Of all the things in your list this one hurts the most

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>official characters
>OCs

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Outside the fun gameplay, what made paper mario good was that it actually did something with the mario universe. Mario has a lot of potential for a big RPG world with all the races, towns, powers, villains, etc. that have been made over the decades yet miyamoto wants to cuck paper mario with no creativity, bland, overused generic mario lands and character archetypes such as toads being npcs and the enemy races just being random enemies.
There's nothing in the new games besides a couple random "important npcs", the rest is just New Super Mario Bros enemies and world with a turn based battle system, there's no character, personality or worldbuilding done here.

>At least 4 and 5 have good bosses, I suppose.
6's boss was good too.

Well in 64, you have to keep going back to Toad Town, and you have to walk all over Lavalava Island looking for the Yoshi kids. And you have to cross Mt. Rugged more than once. And in M&L you have to go back to the castle town all the time. Oh man, all that backtracking just can't be ignored.

Recent games suck because they aren't creative, everything is just generic and not unique, and the gameplay fucking sucks.

Also how they got overly gimmicky with the LOL PAPER shit. EVERYTHING is fucking paper now and there's a paper gag every 5 steps.

> ttyd has Luigi expound on some adventure hes having the whole time Marios doing shit
> a toadkid actually says "I hope theres a Paper Luigi soon!"

If only IntSys wasnt taken out behind the barn by Miyamoto
I dont understand why they let the rabbids have a good crossover but PMs been dead since 2007

Miyamoto doesnt consider them official because they arent red toads making paper jokes

Super Paper Mario was fine though. Also the problem doesn't just extend to Paper Mario but Mario and Luigi as well

>HURR DURR MIYAMOTO IS THE ONE TELLING THEM TO PUT ONLY TOADS IN THE GAMES
>When he hates Toad
Really makes you think.

SPM strayed too far from the Mario roots, it was essentially a JRPG cliche plot starring Mario

No, it was not. All SPM has going for it is the story and nothing else. The setting sucked. The artstyle sucked, the gameplay fucking sucked, it got rid of the real companions and gave us shitty sprites without personalities.

Stop pretending SPM was good only because SS and CS were even worse.

>Super Paper Mario was fine though.
Have you played it recently? I thought the same thing until I tried it again this year and realized how bad it really was. Even just jumping feels bad.

It doesn't ruin the game, it's just a very noticeable flaw that the first game doesn't have. Therefore, PM is better.

Super Paper Mario had the most OCs of all and was a shit game.

ok user

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And it was what made Miyamoto put his foot down and ensure we'll never get another good PM.

>PM64
>no backtracking
>what is shy guy's toy box and flower fields

>ignoring all the other issues like partners not having HP

That's just the team getting back at him, because he said SMW characters only.

>a amazing
>compassion about it

This is your brain on Super Paper Mario apologism.

>It was a amazing game but dumb fucking niggers had the fucking gall to compassion about it

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Why do people forget that PM64 didn't include too many actual original species? Most of it were species used throughout the main series besides a few noticable examples like the Star Spirits, Tubba Blubba, Watt, and a few other examples. They're mostly old species taken and made into an actual character.
It's almost as if there's a bigger hack behind the scenes that people are unknowledgeable of...

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It was an amazing game but REALLY dumb fucking niggers had the fucking gall to complain about it.

partners not having HP was fine because the game was balanced around mario only
TTYD wasn't which is why each partner acting as an extra HP bar kind of defeats the challenge, not saying TTYD's combat is bad, it is an improvement over 64's, but they could have made partners have less HP to not make them such meatwalls
Also having only 2 chapters with backtracking instead of most of the game puts 64 above in the level design category, if only TTYD wasn't rushed we could have had good level design in it too

Clubbas are basically Spikes and Watt is a lil' sparky

Or you just have a short attention span and need constant visual stimulation for your zoomer brain to be satisfied.

The clubbas/what tubba and grubba are are essentially a subspecies of the spikes

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Nope it's all Miyamoto fault in fact, he made Color Splash and Sticker Star and Paper Jam all by himself. Tanabe dindu nuffin.

Tanabe agreed with Miyamotos dumb demands.

But SPM was almost all OCs and its as bad as Sticker Star

>"Zoomer"
Is this the term for "underage" for underage posters? I have two copies of the game faggot.

Miyamoto's demands werent dumb
Tanabe is the one that took reasonable demads (dont make the game full of stupid fucking mspaint shapes OCs a la spm, only use designs from the mario universe) and turned eveyrhing in the game into toads

>Buying 2 physical copies of the same game
Good go-I mean, loyal fan.

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One of them was used for $5 and I only did so because I lost my first copy but ended up finding it when I moved. If there's merchant edit of EB games then he was the one who benefited from it.

The OCs are overrated. They have less development than NES/SNES era RPG characters. Like Koops joins Mario's quest to learn to be brave. After chapter 1 he has next to no unique dialogue until the end of the where he pretends he had character development despite no moments inbetween.

If these characters appeared in any other RPG they'd be ridiculed for being the non-characters they are.

SPM is better than the games that came after it but it's still not especially good.

Color Splash is much better than SPM.

That was good though. It was nice to see things like friendly Koopas, Boos, and Goombas.

>Friendly Boos
I missed that in TTYD

But there are friendly boos in TTYD

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TTYD doesnt have interesting writing. Its got the most predictable plot ever and the most intetesting twist that happens in the game (during chapter 4) deflates 1 minute afterwards when you realise there's no more content, just backtracking. Also Peach is randomly the chosen one so there's a contrivance to involve Mario in a plot which otherwise would have jack shit to do with him.

People liked the fucking series because of the OCs. Saying you can't include them means you have nothing to differentiate PM from M&L, so you have to fill it with dumb gimmicks and paper jokes rather than good writing.

Some were, and we even got to see Bow again, but most boos in the game were enemies. In 64, no boos were enemies, just scripted pranksters.

who are these angsty emo boys you talk to? sounds like shit company

>shit company
>this board
Color me shocked.

What kind of retards unironically want to fight over which of the two good paper mario games are better when we could be crusading for the return of good paper mario in general?

You'll never get another one like it because Nintendo wants to do other things, and you won't even get a re-release because Nintendo doesn't want you to remember when the series was actually good.

What hell are you talking about? M&L has OCs, it has more original races than Paper Mario does, not just slapping a hat on an enemy.

> useless demipartner gets thrust into a dangerous situation right next to you
Which game am I talking about, TTYD or 64?

They were pranksters in TYD too.

>Implying sentient blocks with Mickey Mouse hands is an "original" race

I hope there will never be a mutual agreement.
Just so Paper Mario can stay dead.
In fact, I will always make sure that this will never happen when a thread like this is created, until no new threads about Paper Mario related are OP ever again.

Any chance there'll be "Paper Mario: Origami Bullshit" at this E3?

I hope so. Fuck TTYD and everyone who treats it like a sacred cow.

>havent had a good entry since 2004
>all the bickering that escalates with each nu PM since then

I forget why I even liked PM to begin with. Its just a neverending mire of misery and sliding downhill exponentially. At least Kirby and Metroidfags got a bone eventually.

the biggest TTYDfag could not have made a better image to prove how cringe 64fags are

there are also the bean bean denizens, the pillo people, shroobs, many other stuff

every partner in TTYD is great in every aspect, except for Flurry, which is shit
they're all good designs, like 64 partners, except a bit better rendered and with an actual backstory and personality

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Just wish they'd interact more between each other

a limitation from how partners were implemented in both games, with only 1 being out at most times, except maybe when they're part of the story

if they implemented something akin to Mass Effect/Dragon Age maybe we could have that, but I don't know if the battle system wouldn't be too... cluttered

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it could still work by having the partner show up temporarly to say something then go back in the "pocket" like it does happen already in some events, just had to do it more often to flesh out the partners more by having them interact with each other