The definition of a roguelike is "a forced-ironman turn-based strategy game with procedurally-generated maps"

Qud is fun and underrated

Minecraft

How is Dredmor suspect? It's garbage but it's 100% a roguelike.

Caves of Qud is the only worthy one

you forgot the "must be a single module" rule of the Berlin interpretation.

>a forced-ironman
Not true.

>that fucking youtube comment tier logic
jesus user

Lost Labyrinth, motherfucker!!!

The Berlin Interpretation, maybe. That's a very aesthetics-focused definition and it's too shallow to be really any use. For instance, the "grid-based" element makes little sense. Why can't you have a Phantom Brave-style roguelike? Why can't your roguelike take place on hexes? And many of the other bullet points are literally just roguelike fans jacking themselves off. There's no requirement that a roguelike be "complex".

Tales of maj'eyal

>this fits muh headcanon definition because i want it to
>nah your headcanon definition is garbage
I was going to offer some titles, but OP's faggotocalypse has sent me back to my fallout shelter

Can you show me where it's defined. I'm actually curious what authority you're deferring too.

Bought Dragon Fang Z since it's on sale on switch. It's fun

>n-no it doesn't count as a real roguelike because you can store items in the warehouse to use them later!
Who cares, all the autistic requisites to be a roguelike apply. You can always not make use of it and always start dungeons with nothing.

It's suspect because it's garbage, is what I meant.

True. In this context, "forced-ironman" means that you cannot reload a previous save. There is no requirement that a roguelike be permadeath or force you to start over from scratch, but in a true roguelike you cannot, for instance, save just before a boss or tough dungeon and then reload from that save when you die.

ADOM

he's memeing you you dumb fuck. there is no authority on any video game terminology.

I don't think meta progression auto disqualifies a game from being a RL but I think it ruins most games it's in.

See the post below yours, a roguelike doesn't have to be permadeath, it just has to prevent you from reloading previous saves. Permadeath is just a natural consequence of having death be a game over state and not letting you reload a previous save.

Arguing about whether a roguelike is an RPG or a strategy game is a much smaller leap than whether it's a turn-based strategy game or an action platformer. There are gray areas, but there are also black and white areas.

Sproggiwood.
>No bullshit
>More focus on movement than stats
>Hard as fuck still at later levels

this

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The more autistic shit you guys put as requirements, the more the genre become luck based than pure skill and proper resource management based.

So to be a real roguelike, on top of being good st the game of course, I have to pray on every floor RNG doesn't fuck me over with a cheap shot making me start from scratch after 435 floors?

Sounds great, but the graphics look like aids.

>roguelike
>graphics
lol

dredmor is fun, fuck the haters
completely unbalanced game though

Unreal World is a great autism simulator. Haven't played it for a while but I see that they are finally adding more NPC interactions. A feature the game direly needs as it lives from the immersion of a living, breathing environment that directly responds to your actions as a player.
If I were a richfag I would sponsor these guys so they could work fulltime on this niche gem.

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>You can always not make use of it and always start dungeons with nothing.
Limiting yourself doesn't change the fact that the game was designed with the warehouse in mind.
Meta progression and permadeath are mutually exclusive.

This. Having shit graphics is actually one lf the major aspects to be a true roguelike.

>autistic shit
Dude, even in the most casual games, it's generally agreed that permadeath and procgen are important. If anything, traditional roguelikes are the ones that are bending the knee - games like Tales of Maj'Eyal and Tangledeep have been giving you non-permadeath modes, whereas stuff like Binding of Isaac haven't.

>So to be a real roguelike, on top of being good st the game of course, I have to pray on every floor RNG doesn't fuck me over with a cheap shot making me start from scratch after 435 floors?
There's a thing called "game balance", and it's there to prevent this sort of thing. If you're playing a game where there's legitimately NOTHING you can do because you just got unlucky, that's just bad game design, you're just playing a bad game.

But also, yes. Dying is kind of the point of roguelikes. You are meant to die at some point. Ideally, this is your fault. Ideally, it's because of an aggregation of poor decisions going all the way back to the start of the game. But even if it isn't, even if it's just a total random bullshit death, part of the appeal of roguelikes is supposed to be the joy of a fresh start.

Do you know what rogue is?
A game has to be "like" rogue to be a roguelike.

By autistic shit I meant this ironman shit the guy brought up.
It was always
>turn based
>procedurally generated
>permadeath
>Dungeons

Then people started putting and more requirements on top lf it all for some reason. Now I hear people saying the game needs to be "super hard", which is retarded since it's completely subjective.
And I do savescum, not afraid to admit.
I don't mind doing something dumb and starting all over again many times but even though I know I can do it legit at some point I just want to see the ending already.

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I always want to try Unreal World but I stop short because it seems like there's literally no point to it. I can't get into games when there's no goal, it's the tragic reason why I never play Dwarf Fortress.

A game can be like Rogue without having permadeath. A game can be a turn based strategy game with permadeath and procedural generation and not be like Rogue. Also people usually make a distinction between strategy and tactics. Roguelikes are generally more tactics than strategy

is this a thread autistically obsessing over the definition of roguelike? cause i just wanted to say tales of maj eyal is pretty cool, i like the brawler

>Go for lich
>Infusions removed
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>Then people started putting and more requirements on top lf it all for some reason
Ironman isn't an additional requirement, it's a lessening of the requirements. Permadeath is just what happens when you play an ironman game that has a game over state when you die. All permadeath games are already ironman games.

I like ToME but fuck I can't play that game any more after playing through the earlygame thirty times

Going through the EXACT SAME DUNGEONS in the EXACT SAME ORDER, over and fucking over again, it's a fucking nightmare. I'll say one thing, world maps in roguelikes are a huge mistake. If your roguelike all takes place in one big dungeon, it's way easier to ignore that you're doing the same thing every time you die. When you have a constant, never-changing world map, it turns into a list of tasks.

I'm pretty sure the point of the Berlin Interpretation was to simply describe roguelikes, not define them. The definition of roguelike is based on a canon. There are certain games that everyone agrees are roguelikes and people were just trying to describe what those games all have in common.

maj'eyal is pretty much pinnacle of the genre

Runes will be better in the next version, but they still won't let you remove silence. Also, infusions getting nerfed.

You could always just play the Infinite Dungeon, but it's not perfect since the game is balanced around Age of Ascension.

Also, in the Infinite Dungeon, don't open any fucking vaults. They have ZERO restrictions on what can spawn in them. The Master can spawn in a level 2 vault.

BoI is my favorite

Want to get into Elona, but that game is so jank it's ridiculous.

Elona isn't janky, it's just weird.

These are ACTUAL shitty graphics, not just the basic/lacking that everyone expects from roguelikes.

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your mom

Umm excuse me kind user but could you tell me what game is this?

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Dredmor actually had some cool ideas, but basically every aspect of the game starts breaking down as the numbers get higher.
The universal movement speed = 1 doesn't help either.
If I recall, there's actually loads of unfinished content in the game's files, such as Nethack-style scrolls that need identification and some other stuff that I really can't remember. Hell, even the music wasn't implemented the way that the devs originally intended, with each floor supposed to have a different track.

All in all, the game really could have used another 6 months in the oven to prevent the end game from being a stale and RNG heavy mess.

It's Tangledeep, dumb piece of shit weeaboo friend.

Dwarf fortress and SS13.

>turn-based strategy game
Just cause a game has turn based and cell based movement and combat doesn't mean it's a turn based strategy game.

This is the ultimate combination of abilities in tales of maj'eyal.

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I just started playing Tales of Maj'Eyal yesterday, anything I absolutely need to know? I ain't watching the long ass beginners guide

It's very tedious at times, especially during the second half.
Skills that don't get anything special and talent level 5 are usually only worth putting 3 points in. Most categories have 1.3 "mastery" which means the talent level is multiplied by 1.3x. This means that you only need 4 points to receive bonuses that state they require "talent level 5".

Should I get the DLC for Tales of Maj'Eyal?

I just noticed I bought it a long time ago but havent played it yet.

I really liked Dead Cells but it feels to dependent on getting good synergies and it really needed a super ultra secret zone and boss that really fucking juices your goose. Also the way everything was sectioned makes it feel kind of samey after a while. When you go to the promenade you're always gonna have enemies -> platforming -> enemies -> Treasure room -> enemies -> Cliff -> enemies ->next place. The game might as well be handcrafted. There's also the chokepoint with the middle boss, the final level and the final boss always being the same. The second first boss also only shows up on a really specific route. The animation for levelling up can also feel like a momentum killer. It's still super fun to be charging through levels fast as fuck and it got tons of gameplay shit right with almost every weapon being really fun to use.
I'd put it a solid 7.5 out of 10. A great game that needs some extra push to really make its place in the halls of fame.

DCSS
Elona/+

Buying the base game is basically paying for just Possessor if you don't have the DLCs, but the only DLC that includes another campaign is Embers of Rage.

>forced-ironman
what

if anything good came out of g*rmany its the Berlin interppretation

Yeah I agree with you, for a Roguelike, everything feels same-y. But now that I think about it, is there any roguelike that is each run is completly different? Even good ones like Risk of Rain have this problem.

I really can't tell if this is bait or not

A man of culture i see

I intended it as a giant whoopee cushion on the chair of people who unironically care about genre.

Qud is unique amount rougelikes and has great prose and a great soundtrack

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Risk of Rain 2
inb4 "that's not a rougelike waaaah"

That is incorrect.

Roguelikes emulate Rogue (1980), which emulates Star Trek (1971), which was inspired by Spacewar (1962).

Spacewar was a real time tactical space shooter in which to craft navigate around a gravitational body and try to destroy each other.

Star Trek, due to the limitations of systems, was a turn based perma-death tactical space game where the Enterprise would move through 64 procedurally generated quadrants hunting for Klingons.

For the same reason as above, Rogue was a turn based tactical perma-death dungeon crawler, which improved on the procedural aspect of levels and included special items.

By the laws of logical inference, had Rogue not been subject to limitations of computer systems it would have been a real-time game, like it's transitive predecessor Spacewar. Therefore, we can conclude that any roguelike that emulates rogue and is a real-time game, by transitivity, is also a roguelike.

Furthermore, roguelikes that include additional game aspects can still be considered as such.

Any game that involves:
1. Permanent death
2. Procedural level generation
3. tactical decision making
Can be considered a roguelike, or by extension a startreklike or by extension a spacewarlike.

QED

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It's a shooter with permadeath
When people talk about roguelikes they want to talk about turn based tile RPGs with permadeath

Until people start shitposting in the threads it's not genre label autism, it's an actual specific kind of gameplay people are looking for

ah I see, so FF1 isn't a turn-based jrpg after all, it's actually an action rpg that was merely restrictd by hardware limitations. I'll be sure to include FF1 in my list of great actions games long with DMC and Bayonetta from now on

roguelikes must have rogue interactions like only being able to hurt werewolves with your hands if you have a silver ring equipped or blinding a vampire with the flash of a camera or getting petrified if you touch a cockatrice without gloves on.

DCSS is not a roguelike
FTL is not a roguelike
Rogue Legacy is not a roguelike
Rogue is not a roguelike its a Rogue
ToM is not a roguelike
Only Nethack is a roguelike

Stoneshard when

What

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I wish there were roguelikes with visceral combat descriptions like Dwarf fortress adventure mode...Dwarf fortress gets dull quickly cause you grow in strength super rapidly and it's not really designed around it's adventure mode. But other roguelikes just get really boring to me without the vivid descriptions of items, combat and gore

The most important part of rogue is the tactical, modal aspect along with unique, randomized runs where you have one chance at life. That's it. If you can just die there's no point to having it be modally turn-based, and it's no longer rogue.

Roguelite shitters are basically trying to claim that Mormonism is a legit part of Christendom

The UI is jank as fuck, man. It's also weird, I agree.

How about instead of visceral descriptions they simply had visceral combat? It is a game after all.

Most roguelikes are very pixelated and it's hard to have visceral combat in that.

More like they're trying to claim that Christ is divine and wanted to reform Judaism for what the creator intended.

Star Wars Rogue Squadron is my favorite Roguelike.

I hope one day DF adventure mode gets enough updates to the point where it's an actual fun game. It feels like a tech demo at the moment but it's a really interesting tech demo.

Tales of Maj'Eyal

Caves of Qud is prolly my favorite

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Had an adventure mode run where I just tossed shit at enemies. Reading how some sand I picked up and threw at people completely BTFO'd them was pretty funny

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I wish someone just ripped the combat "engine" and built a dungeoncrawl game around it.

He said roguelike not roguelite you fucking faggot

How is Tangledeep? Was considering picking it up for my next game after I finish Zanki Zero

>love roguelike games
>tfw none of these indie games for PC ever make one

Theres some but none of them quite scratch my itch. And it should be easy, considering I just want permadeath and that feel of actually getting stronger everytime I try.
Dead Cells kinda got really close but its 2D platformer instead of the rpg dungeon type I want.

Elona+, but I couldn't figure out what to do to get gud. Everywhere I went I just got my ass kicked and my loli killed. What should I be doing when I first start?

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can't remember the name but the one with the fat guy is my favorite

What is happening in that image

>Everywhere I went I just got my ass kicked.
Protip: Obtain Charisma.
Second Protip: Obtain Followers.
Third Protip: Elona+ is a very, very long game. Play it safe, play it slow.

I was actually just thinking of replaying today.

You should save scumming

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Elona+ is happening.

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tome 1.6 when

Is there a image pack made for Elona with this guys art?

>Elona+
Didnt elona get taken over by some super autismo and filled with garbage noone wanted? fuckin swear it was something like that

Play Angband

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Fun but pretty easy and allows infinite grinding.

Its fun tho. And the Farmer is broken as fuck lategame.

The player character is offering a shopkeeper alcohol, which in Elona allows you to prostitute yourself to the shopkeeper. This is useful because shopkeeps have a lot of money, usually enough for multiple sessions, which is why the PCs backpack has a bunch of liquor in it. The girls outside are the player's followers, one of which is covering the little girl's ears so she isn't exposed to lewdness. She has a giant mace because little girls are good at using big two-handed weapons, especially in the early game.

Did anyone figure out the Boat Puzzle in the detective story?

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Search on danbooru

Oh that's really fucking cool, is it hard to pick Elona up?

all this elona talk makes me want to play that elona shooter game would be neat if there was an updated version of it

If you've ever played ADOM, then know that the original Elona is mechanically similar in many ways and will probably be intuitive. Otherwise, some mechanics may be harder to grasp. The in-game help, along with hint books that can be found to explain some features, provide a good in-game resource. If you don't mind reading outside the game, the community wiki and also the /jp/ thread have exhaustive info. I would say that complete understanding of the game takes a while, but the basics should come quickly.

Yeah i know they're there I was just hoping someone compiled them all together in a pack so i don't have to go through renaming everything.

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Roguelite refers to games with permadeath and procedural generation that aren't grid based turn based or non-modal you fucking retard. It doesn't just refer to anything that isn't a "forced-ironman turn-based strategy game with procedurally-generated maps". Elona is not a roguelite

I started playing again relatively recently only to find out there's a thirst mechanic added, which seems super annoying. Luckily you can get custom-g which removes it