Everyone else gets 1 point for a kill

>based
More like try hards, lmao

>The fact that Spy can see enemies' health is really one of his greatest strengths.
or you cant just see the giant -(NUMBER) sign on them when you shoot them

at close-mid range revolver can easily kill even full health target, except the more tanky classes, if the enemy detected you I find it way more reliable to use revolver than trying to do some gay trickstab to put on some frag video

I call them Welfare Points. (Spy is the actual nigger, not demo)
Spy is such a bad class it needs them to show it has had some impact on the game.
But that's what he was made for, surprise important picks, the latter which Sniper does better, faster and without putting himself in harm's way.

Attached: eggman.png (432x395, 242K)

That should be another weapon. Maybe stats for the Big Kill.
Can't go invisible while drawn, longer draw and holster time, and maybe some other negatives.
M1 while disguised will use one bullet to replicate a bullet, or two seconds of fire on weapons like the flamethrower, from whatever weapon is currently being held. M2 will replicated things like zooming in, revving up, etc.
Spy should also be able to toggle actual Spy speed when disguised and disguise speed, or for disguises like Scout and Pyros holding the Powerjack, stay at max speed either way.
Would really help make disguises like Heavy better, which itself helps in unpredictability.
I agree completely.

>stats for the Big Kill
Giving stats to a preoder promotional cosmetic skin for a weapon is a mistake.

Attached: medic.webm (640x360, 2.63M)

I just hate reskins.

> Bonesaw
> No Crossbow
Uninstall please.

It wouldn’t be that useful. Most players either automatically spy check or notice a disguised spy almost immediately. Disguise is for approaching the enemy team when you won’t be noticed, it shouldn’t be you main method of getting behind the enemy

>Retarded BS hitbox
>cl_interp abuse
>Gets more points
>Free crits with diamondback for doing your job
SHIT class

Scunts are one of the most cringe classes in the game

Raw skill class with zero bullshit. Every single time a scout killed you, he earned it.

whoops sorry, i posted the wrong rankings
here's the real one
BASED:
pyro
demo
SEMI-CRINGE:
soldier
CRINGE:
scout
heavy
sniper
medic
spy
engineer

The Ambassador pre nerf was a great weapon for headshots

Basically this.
I hate scunt mains but at least their kills are pure aim.
However, the insane mobility makes them obnoxious in 1v1.
Not as bad as LochnLoad + Quickie demo but still.

WAVE OF MUTILATION

> BASED
> Pyro

Attached: (you).png (508x494, 179K)

But it would trick some people, which would save Spy's ass in some cases. Probably a few times in a 20-minute game.
Small changes, which fit thematically, would add up to make Spy overall better.
The claim that Spy doesn't fool good players ignores the fact that even the best players aren't robots and make mistakes. If I was thinking about my plan to attack, and my ally just walked out of view, then walked back into view, it's very likely I might not check him. Especially if he's doing something I expect him to do, even if I know a Spy could also do that, like reloading or firing behind himself.

Good:
>anyone else
Kill Yourself:
>you

dead game
over used unoriginal meme
op, are you okay?

So you're essentially trying to hope for luck.

>get 1 point for shooting someone from 37 miles away
>get 2 points for sneaking behind them undetected and getting a melee kill
seems fine to me m8

>queue for some obscure map like doomsday , watergate or pipeline
>after like 1 hour of waiting my match is ready
>its just sniper hacker bots and me
fucking hell

youtube.com/watch?v=yImsAlYW89M

Your list is shit and so are you

I really like using the Revolver but fuck the spread sometimes. At least it looks sexy though, using a skin on it feels gross unless it's the Top Shelf skin.

Attached: TopShelfSkin.png (512x512, 71K)

honestly I can't think of any class that requires more skill than scout. With soldier/demo you can get lucky cause of splash, and headshot hitbox is so fucked so it's not sniper. Everybody else requires on some gimmick (maybe heavy but he's braindead as shit)

All spy has going for it is fooling people through acting. Give every opportunity to act. And people don't always spy check effectively. Sometimes I'll just shoot randomly at a teammate and if they shoot back, the spy checking ends.

>love heart unusual wearing fags spamming flames with zero skill and topping the scoreboard
>not based
what sort of planet do you live on?

>now spies can fake shoot
>people are just going to spycheck harder on people shooting after the inital confusion
It literally helps nothing but fool the new players eventually and people already distracted.

Spy is meant to punish people who aren't paying attention. That's his whole thing.
And nobody is always paying attention.

The one where it doesn't exist you furry pyro main.

BASED:
>scout
>soldier
>sniper
>engie
SEMI-BASED:
>heavy
>demo
>medic
NOT AT ALL BASED:
>pyro
>spy

Sniper has an infinite ceiling.
So to me me he's still the most skilled in terms of requirement to make him work.
Scout is 99% better to run instead of him because of his mobility and high damage output.
Sniper only has one, damage, and once caught he's almost always dead unless you hit a godlike shot.
And that's despite the dodgy hitbox (even though I think it's good compared to many other games)

If a person is shooting at you, he's paying attention to you.
What you're supposed to do is to not get caught in the act to begin with to the point they don't even bother to spycheck you.

yeah, reducing the spread is the kind of buff I wish for spy

But people wouldn't always Spy check like that. Obviously, now a simple shot back would no longer suffice in most cases, but when you have enemies to shoot at, seeing an ally shoot back at them with you would convince many, including veterans, that a Spy isn't a Spy.
More of "But he doesn't fool good players!" is just more bullshit.

Even as a troll/joke post it's in bad tastes

Attached: disappoint.jpg (728x729, 200K)

Good:
>scout
>soldier
>sniper
>heavy
>medic
>demo
>spy

Not okay:
>pyro
>engineer

Needs to fuck off:
>People who use the word Based

>That should be another weapon.
I really think it should be standard.
You should be able to haul fake buildings as engineer, and send out fake beams as medic, and scope-in as sniper and rev-up as heavy, as you've said. Place fake stickybombs when disguised as demoman, drop fake sandviches when disgused as heavy.... Again, all spy has going for it is acting, give spys ever possible tool and then rebalance the class around that if necessary.

But he might not be shooting at you already. He might see you go by, and think to himself that, as there's a Heavy ahead, any real teammate would be taking potshots, even while they're retreating. But he sees you aren't, and knows you're a Spy in a case where, otherwise, he might let you pass, figuring you need ammo or health.
The issue is what buttons would use it. I wouldn't really mind it being standard, but I at least want it on some weapon.

I'm tempted to go even farther and suggest that disguised spys should be able to enter enemy spawn rooms. They wouldn't be able to drop their disguise nor actually damage players while inside. But it's the details that matter in selling an act.

>valve made the ambassador work only up close
>just use revolver instead then
valve is retarded

>The issue is what buttons would use it. I wouldn't really mind it being standard, but I at least want it on some weapon.
Oh it would need to be, definitely. Especially if you can fake-swing a melee weapon, you'd need to be able to toggle between your knife and that.
I dunno though. Radial menu? They have that in CSGO now I hear.

based
pyro and engineer are for braindead, no wonder those two are BFF

>why yes i play engineer how could you tell

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What if Spy got a sprint meter? He can press a button to run at something like 117 speed, but it drains his meter.
Also pressing it against a wall allows him to climb walls.

This.
>join 2fort game for shits and giggles
>enemy spy topping the scoreboard
>huh, must be a really good spy main
>run into him
>oh shit he's got unusuals on him
>kill him no sweat
>maybe I just caught him off guard this time
>keep destroying him
>he starts saying shit like "fuck why am i so trash" in chat
>dominate him
>mfw "IM SO FUCKING TRASH I HATE MYSELF"
>kill him again and again
>he starts ranting about what a worthless piece of shit he is
>kill him with 1 hp left
>"im fucking garbage i wanna kms fuck"
>kill him again
>"fuck im so fucking trash fuck fuck"
>finally gets revenge with a random crit from his revolver
>spams lenny faces non-stop
>goes full retard in chat spamming gibberish
>dom him once again
>Spy main has left the game (disconnect by user)
To this day I still wonder what the fuck his problem was. Spy and sniper seem to attract the edgiest weirdos.

Attached: 1396328803813.jpg (520x678, 69K)

Let the Spy get fake achievements for the class he's playing as, and have fake friends that are a copy of the real players friends join the lobby to fake play with him too.

yeah, also add an ult button where he shoots a bullet from his revolver while screaming in french, but instead of a bullet, two giant coiled baguettes come out damaging every enemy they touch

Not him but there's an upside to using the syringe gun and that is that it's loud as fuck so whenever you start shooting with it your teammates will instantly turn around and help you out. It works much better than the "Help!" command surprisingly enough.

That's a good idea. Could Pyros reflect this baguette?

All this talk about spy disguises miss one major point in that the only reason why people don't shoot at allies firing their weapons is because they're conditioned to think that.

>run and climb walls
spotted the naruto spy

>teammates
>ever protecting their medic

Attached: 1549020967519.png (1920x1080, 2.69M)

Let the spy collect fake intelligence and fake capture a point, because it's just an act.

Sniper used to get 2 points for a headshot kill, IIRC.

Maybe still does.

>but when you have enemies to shoot at, seeing an ally shoot back at them with you would convince many, including veterans, that a Spy isn't a Spy
>if a person is distracted by other enemies they're less likely to bother with checking for spies
So just a small inconsequential improvement

no, because those are ghost baguettes, they can even go though walls and stuff
Pyro instead should get his own ult, where he just burns enemies in an area, kinda like gas passer, but actually setting on fire, with it's center on pyro and a bigger radius

heres how to fix spy
he is now anime girl with big bobies
can throw shurikens
can throw smoke bombs
can teleport behind people
can wallrun
revolver replaced with ninjato

>inconsequential
A buff is a buff. And it fits thematically, and if you added some other small buffs, they'd all make one good buff.
Adding some huge difference, like letting Spies throw all of their knives, or something, would be hated, no matter if it was something that really did let Spy compete, or if it wasn't over powered.
But adding a dozen small things which really should have been there from the beginning shouldn't cause any arguments whatsoever. Why are you against it? Do you think it wouldn't fit the class? Do you think it would make him overpowered? Do you think it would make him worse? What?

It's not protecting, more like "hey I hear my medic is shooting someone I WANT TO KILL THEM INSTEAD"
crossbow any day of the week of course but it's a weird thing I noticed about the syringe gun

Syringe gun should reload when holstered.

THIS,
Whenever I queue nowadays there's like a 10% chance I join a server where its filled with hacking sniper bots called shit like 'Mad Dog', anyone else come across these abominations?

Attached: fucking botniggers.jpg (1360x768, 217K)

Go sniper and VAC Medic.
Ez XP farm

XP is worthless.

>having fun as engy on 2fort
>leave courtyard nest for 2 seconds to go check the sewers
>SPAH SAPPIN' MA SENTRY

Attached: when you get dominated by a spy.gif (400x227, 3.85M)

BASED:
>"I play all the classes and just pick whatever I feel like playing at the time"
>"I play all the classes and just pick whatever the team doesn't have"
CRINGE:
>"I'm a [class] main"

Based and truthpilled.

tide turner + pain train demoknight is kino gameplay

Whoops, i'm really having my head out of my shoulders
Here's the true list
Based
Heavy
Engi
Medic
Demoman
Semi cringe
Spy
Sniper
Cringe
Scout
Soldier
Pyro

top cringe is this list formatting chief

>Damascus and Mahogany exists

Attached: file.png (360x360, 55K)

this except medic heavy and demo im tired of having to play these fucking classes every single match because nobody else plays them ITS MY TURN TO PLAY THE REAL CLASSES IT MY TURN TO HAVE FUN GET THE FUCK OFF SCOUT

Sniper players will be the only ones seeing their own mistakes. Each failed shot is a missed kill that could have saved the game. Being the guy who shoots from far away also means not interacting much with the team and being usually on your own.

Spy players expect to outsmart everyone and be super cool ninjas but fail hard and get upset.

I (not the guy you are talking to) think those additions are taking up time from something more important. You don't fix class by adding minute details, it's that simple.
Let me explain how anti-spy warfare works:
Any player on map can be in one of two states:
A) Fucking around
B) Actively fighting someone
In state A, player simply MUST check anyone they see. It's not recommendation, not some overkill tactics, it's just a simple fact - spy check ANYONE. There's simply no excuses, because state A players, at most, are running towards objective, or waiting for something. NOT busy. Thus they have all time needed to do spychecks. Only classes that may abstain are heavies, since they lack speed to catch up to those spies who don't give themselves away by twirling around when someone chip off 1 HP off them.
But there is a catch: if you can't spycheck someone for whatever good reason, you must ask someone else to do that for you. Pyro should quickly turn up to either cover everyone's backs, or scout can do a sweep of territory.
If spy doesn't expect this level of cooperation, he should just stop pretending and accept he hopes he's fighting noobs.
In state B, player is obviously at frontline, so he has no time or attention to spare. So, again, he should ask someone else to do spychecking.
So there you have it. Proper team communicates and it's members alert each other when they suspect a spy around them. Your minute details do nothing about this, they only add layers of confusion for new players whom you'd probably kill anyway.

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Respawn wallhacks are actually beneficial to spy if you work it right. People get so used to relying on it for spotting spies that otherwise competent players get complacent when they don't see any lingering outlines near spawn and will blunder forward with no concern for safety. Obviously they'll be more paranoid next time... but then if they're looking around it wouldn't matter anyway would it?

Obviously nothing can really be done against the Spy's ultimate counter, voice chat, but most people in pubs don't use it.
It would remain nothing but a direct and fitting buff. Nothing more can really be done that isn't extreme.
Adding those wouldn't "take time from" anything else. Valve doesn't have some set schedule where they'd fit those in right before the actual Spy buffs.
It's a direct nerf. It needs to be gone.

Attached: tf2 tier list.png (1458x818, 1.26M)

Hello young man!
Why haven't you played TF2 yet? I mean its STILL alive after so long. How on Earth could this not be a good game. I mean, look how long its been surviving.
Even the games you do play are known to cheaply imitate it in their art style, or their design... I mean come on, why would you seriously continue to both with imitations when TF2 STILL exists?
You DO like good games right?

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As a div 2 medic i used to get banned every week from community servers for dominating scunts and crypers with the syringe gun

>tfw no escort the civilian gamemode

>RAW SKILL TIER
Scout
Sniper
>FEW GIMMICKS TIER
Soldier
Demoman
Heavy
>RELIANT ON GIMMICKS (and teammates) TIER
Medic
Spy
Pyro
Engineer

Honestly Pyro takes more skill that Heavy.

Maybe, but the list is about gimmicks.

it is better to be exceptional at one thing than to be mediocre at 9 different things

this
if you're so paranoid about being useless depending on team setup, just play a class like soldier or scout

>REDpilled tier
Scout
Sniper
Soldier
Spy
Engineer
>BLUpilled tier
Heavy
Medic
Demoman
Pyro

Attached: Don't do that.png (178x209, 95K)

Spy gets wellfare points, but sniper doesn't actually fit in the game.

In a game with damage falloff, and every class being based around close combat, you let someone fight at infinite range; this is dumb and just smells bleeding in shit from older games where this did work.

t. heavy main

>I like
I like
>I don't like
You like

sniper is the most skill intensive class in the game, just get gut or get out

(personal experience tier)
>GOOD AT OFFENSIVE PLAY
Sniper A
Demo A
Scout A
Soldier B
Pyro B
Spy B
Engineer B
Heavy B
Medic D
>GOOD AT DEFENSIVE PLAY
Demo A
Engineer A
Heavy A
Soldier A
Medic A
Sniper A
Pyro B
Scout C
Spy C
>BEST PICKS FOR BEGINNERS
Soldier A
Scout A
Demo A
Medic A
Pyro B
Heavy B
Engineer B
Sniper C
Spy F
What do you guess think

I can't play as any class besides scout because I find the movement too slow otherwise

>long range
>no movement required beyond sniper dueling
>no falloff
>most skill intensive
lol

How is Spy a bad pick for beginners?

Attached: Merde.gif (1200x675, 1.96M)

learn to rocketjump

Sniper doesn't fit in the game were everyone else is right up to each other's faces, and sniper is easily exploitable by cheats. At least scouts that cheat don't have the game sense to dodge pipes and rockets, while snipers can sit comfortably 100 miles away from me while I have to walk around the geometry of the map to make sure I don't get shot.

not him but temporary speed with a health/secondary weapon tax isn't enough fast

Don't shoot so fast.

You can't just run and gun but have to actually think a bit in order to be decent with spy

to be a spy, you first have to be good at every other class in the game, and know every map, and know the hiding spots, the pathways, the ways how you can abuse the level to your advantage.
and that's JUST so you can be on the same level as another class. it doesn't actually make you good; to be a good spy, you're better of playing a class that has actual utility outside of "wait 20 seconds after a backstab"

By the time you've gotten a hold of spy you'd be better off practicing or playing as any other class in the game. Spy seems the weakest in high tier play but not in casual, however once the enemy knows your presence you might as well go another class and stop trying.

Just checked in after years of not being here. I see the same topics are still being made.

>BASED/CRINGE
Cringe

>Engineer
>Reliant on gimmicks

>(and teammates)

Imagine you just installed TF2. You pick the other 8 classes and you have a rough idea what to do, that is point and shoot to deal damage. But pick spy and what the fuck is even happening, why do people keep killing me when I'm disguised what is this weird box I have that does nothing aaaaahhhhh

The point is, spy is flawed to his core, and to make him fun to play as and against, some significant changes has to happen. Which, naturally, is a problem on it's own, as anything "significant" (on higher scale than "pyro got his flame particles fixed") will shake balance of all other classes.
This leads to assumption that Valve won't do it, since they are not really interested in this game anymore (at least some majority of Valve), and thus, I guess, you'd like at least to sneak in some small improvements. I simply think those won't really be of any benefit two weeks from update they ship in, like most of things that happened to Spy since TF2's release.

There is just no way to change the spy to be useful without losing what makes the spy, a spy.

>when losing: acts like the edgiest retard ever
>after winning once: acts like the most obnoxious hubristic retard ever
Why is this 90% of TF2 players?

>Let the spy collect fake intelligence
You're joking, but this is actually genius. They should be able to carry fake intelligence, as long as someone else on their team has the actual one.
>fake capture a point, because it's just an act.
This is retarded.

All the fun people and furries/bronies left

>getting styled on by a furfag pyro
is there a worse feel?

Cringe

>pyro
>not best class for beginners

geting pubstomped by medic/soldier with pocket medic with unusuals and anime avatars

i don't know either of these feels
git gud

t.killed by ramirez.minecraft2009

The buff is so small to begin with that most people would just change their tactics to "shoot anyone" to counter it.
Even a Spy voiceline or or text chat would pretty much alert people to spycheck anyone who breathes and your idea would just remove "people that are shooting" from things players should not spycheck.
It is also completely useless in competitive, but that's another thing entirely.

cope

A good and concise argument, well done.

>Sniper
>skill

Attached: 1450476976969.jpg (1656x1532, 60K)

>tfw absolutely cannot do well as soldier without rocketjumping
>tfw it pains my autism to take my own health

it's a list about gimmicks, not skill levels
Sniper doesn't take skill but he doesn't use gimmicks

His gimmick is being the only infinite range class in an otherwise close-medium range combat game. Literally the worst gimmick.

Getting killed by the Thermal Thruster taunt.

fair point

>he thinks sniper doesn't take skill
Alright lads, show me your hale's own with 97%+ headshot kill rate.

The reason I became a Medic “main” back when I played the game was because absolutely no one would choose him, and I’ve been put in too many matches where we need an Uber push but no ones a medic.

This also holds true for how often I played Demoman. So many Engineer nests that spies can’t handle by themselves.

Headshotting consistently takes skill. Standing behind your teammates does not.

so basically before wallhacks

That's more like being the bitch boy of the team.

Same. I honestly don't see why any soldier would rocket jump unless his loadout is built around rocket jumping.

an argument on the level of "WELL WHERE'S YOUR GOTY TITLE IF THIS GAME SUCKS SO MUCH"

Height advantage is the single best thing a guy with a rocket launcher can have.

I ended up pretty much maining soldier because it's always the worst when your team is short on power classes, you can never have too many of them and rather than having to shove a medigun up someone's ass and pray that they can make some plays you yourself feel like you can get things done.

Eh, unless if they’re taunting prude dickheads, there is no point in getting mad over inconsequential things like that.

How exactly? The team wouldn’t win because there’s no one to heal them on maps with little healthpacks and the defending team has a strong defense.
Insolent manchild.
I get what you’re saying, but a team that dies often and has to go all the way back to the spawn instead of around the corner from the frontline to get healed isn’t a successful one.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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be a chad instead and play soldier and lose horribly

Your idea of buffing the spy is so small that you're essentially trying to fix the big gaping hole with a flower.
All those buffs you mentioned doesn't stop the players from spychecking all they want. You're relying on the players not knowing about them, which is not good strategy.
Give or take a few weeks and most players will figure out the trick and they would remove "don't spycheck someone who is shooting/hauling/in spawn etc" from their mindset in spychecking, making them much more vigilant in checking for spies anywhere.
Your "buff" will be nothing more than a gimmicky thing that only serves to fool new players and players already heavily distracted by other matters. It won't fool, say, an engineer who suspects you as you're getting close to his sentry, or people roaming around in the battlefield with nothing to do.

height advantage
your best bet is to know where the healthpacks are

Sniper has no place in this game. Low rush, incredibly high reward class that encourages lone wolf behavior. No counter play. Not fun to play against. If played perfectly, it ruins the game.

There are so many times where a spy tries to stab me at low HP and I just blow him to bits but if he used his revolver he would have won with ease.

I don't understand. They can see my remaining HP. Why won't they use the revolver?

Spies can't do shit normally, it's the worst class in the game now. At least let them get all excited over having more points in a game that points barely matter in.

Attached: succ.gif (540x540, 277K)

Some sort of conditioning where if a Spy gets close he has to use the knife.

>meet some furfag demonigger who uses nothing but iron bomber, eyelander and the tide turner
>unless i annihilated him in two seconds, he would always tide turn charge back to base, wait until i wasn't around and dominate my braindead team
>whenever i did kill him with direct hit, he would become massively butthurt and spam chat

i don't even fucking want to go full tryhard soldier main when i'm relaxing, but these fucking retards need to be taught a lesson

Attached: MANDY, I'M BURNIN UP.png (512x384, 295K)

>make respawn wallhacks not work on Spies,
This would be an interesting change since you could still potentially identify spies if during the wallhack time you see a team player without the outline, you'd know they're a spy.

Most just see the knife as their main source of damage.
>T. spy that guy blew away

In a way it is

Why do they still have the casual badge shit? It means god damn nothing if your team sucks cock n dick

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This. Mostly newer players or players who don't play Spy often tend to forget they have a revolver. That's what happened to me for a long time. I'd be so obsessed with how I thought the class was meant to be played optimally that I'd forget about the revolver, or I'd think that the revolver was too weak for any decent damage.
Then I started to use it and realized, holy shit, this is a fucking gun, of course it's going to do some damage.

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Normally if someone has a purple badge you can expect them to be competent at at least 1 class. that's about it.

Well yeah, but spies always prioritize. Spies may only get a single kill, but when they have the choice between the enemy medic and some F2P sniper who never hits anything anyway...

Oh. Actually, I think I get your point.

youtu.be/95iwH1UsFC4
peak tf2 kino

>That nigga with the lvl 1 badge but 5000 hours on community servers

Why do they still have casual?

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