ITT: DMC oldchads reign in and get the bandwagonning redditors to admit that DMC5's level design is trash

Isn't DMC all about dabbing on enemies?

If these strawman images posted actual maps then maybe I'd care
You could at least take a screenshot of the in game one, right?

Yes but only if it's hard to pull off, otherwise I'd be spamming the spinning move in DmC right now.

How many areas are there in DMC5 where your options aren't limited to "go forward" and "go backwards"? It's also funny how often I had to use the button that tells you where to go. Not because the map was complex, but because the corridor looked the same both ways so it was impossible to tell which way I was going.

I just don't understand why people care so much about linearity? Who could possibly even care so much about something so stupid?

Linearity can be bad when it's just a straight line with nothing else, but in this case, it's a fucking action game; why would you want a fucking "open world" DMC action game? It wouldn't be good. There are barely any good open world games at all regardless of genre and especially not in modern times. And even if it wasn't open world, but open levels, it still wouldn't change anything and wouldn't bring anything to the table besides linearity.

I doubt anyone ever even played DMC3 in any other way than a linear path, if at times back tracking a slight bit here or there (which is meaningless and pointless). People that shit on linearity are straight up fucking retarted

It's boring and lazy.

opening doors and traversal in general is a chore in classic dmc/re, but people don't want to admit it

But DMC3 is a straight line anyway. The level design may loop around the same map but it's still a straight line.

You literally do not understand what you're talking about. Trust me. You don't.

This is literally a case of "you think you do, but you don't". If the game was more "open" it would literally bring NOTHING to the game, and arguably only make it worse.

There is nothing wrong with linear games (to a point).

I don't really have a problem with the more linear level design. it cuts the bullshit and gets to the stuff people actually play DMC for quicker.

>DMC3babs thinking their game had good level design
I’m fucking laughing holy shit. Use DMC1 as the example next time you try to shitpost

It's not just the linearity you fucking dumbass. It's how fucking flat and unimaginative everything area in DMC5 is. The hall where you set the Vajra in DMC3 is a good example of an interesting area to fight in, surrounded by enemies with a height advantage. The fight on the rail on the way to the fight against beowulf is another one, or even fighting the sand spewing demons on the way to the centipede boss (the ones after you take the first elevator). Those are all fights that you approach differently not because of the selection of enemies attacking you, but because the topology of the area forces you to.

There's no such areas in DMC5 that force you to approach enemies in a different way than you are used to.

A game doesn't have to be open to give you the impression that you aren't running in a corridor. See; OPs map. Better yet, go play the game. Having to think about where you need to go or how you can get past an obsticle adds something to the game. Running in a corridor with no convergance, no backtracking, and no level design is the opposite of good game world design.

You literally don't understand what you're talking about, you were so stupid you thought you were smarter than those who do. Zelda games are linear but that doesn't mean their corridor simulators like DMC5 is.

The linearity isnt the problem, the problem is that the level design is mostly just a set of corridors. It isnt the whole game, there are a few more interesting ones like Mission 11 but the big problem is that they are just presented in such a drab manner. Why are so many levels so drab to look at? Why are so many of them just corridor>fight room>corridor repeat? The older games did that too but at least every room looked different and they all had different, deliberate themes and concepts. Remember how every room in DMC1 and 3 had a name? You couldn't really do that in 5.
Honestly a lot of it is just presentation I think. Aside from the visual element you lose a lot of atmosphere and memorable vistas and framing by losing the fixed camera angles, even if it does make things easier from a combat POV. Maybe someday someone will do a Perspective mod for DMC5 like they did for RE2make and we'll see if that changes anything.

>There's no such areas in DMC5 that force you to approach enemies in a different way than you are used to.
There was one area in mission 9 I believe it was where there was a ledge and all it did was get in the way of V's teleport to finish attack. So you are wrong, but DMC5 did a shit job with that area regardless!

Anyone who defends dmc3 level design never played it.

Classic DMC and RE required you to get new items and abilities to progress. DMC5 has egg things in the earlier levels and that's it. Play the games you talk about before talking about them.

Anyone who thinks dmc3's level design isn't at least serviceable is a scrub that kept dying to hazards or got lost because of low IQ.

I played dmc1 before most of this board was born. 5's level design is great. Cuts out the platforming and puzzle garbage.

zoom zoom

I'll pretend to believe you. What did you like about DMC1?

well, I played dmc 1 before it was even made and I say that 5 level design is shit.

in RE it makes sense, in DMC, not so much.

Oh shit based did they fix the garbage """exploration""" padding too?

OLD GOOD
NEW BAD

What's the point of the nidhogg hatchlings in this game other than fooling brainlets into thinking some thought was put into the level design?

Its a fucking waste of time in DMC, its all obvious dull simplistic backtracking unlike RE where there is a planning aspect to it due to nonlinearity

What's the point of the items in 3 other than fooling brainlets into thinking some thought was put into the level design?

It's not supposed to make sense it's supposed to pad the game out and perhaps get you immersed into the world which DMC 1, 2, and 3 did okay at. 4 had some neat ideas too but eh, pretty bad. 5 is just shit tier at world design, I have literally no desire to play through DMD because the game is just so much of a bore.

>soul of steel
>cube room
>mission 15
>convenient random teleport from the tower to the strip club out of nowhere
PSHHHHHHHHH
*sips*
dmc3.... yep, that was some top notch level design, they sure don't make puzzle and platforming sections like they used to anymore

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But DMC3 was a huge hall, every explorations are halls

I was hoping you'd ask, zoomer. They very often change the areas you need to backtrack through, giving you a different challenge, making the world look more believable and memorable, repurposing a previous area which feels fresh and new the second time you go through it.

Now answer my question, brainlet.

Anyone defending the lack of minigames and puzzles isn't even a fucking fan. Even DMC4 had better level design and that game was bad.

youtube.com/watch?v=IAcoK6VwiQU

5 is an embarrassment, it'll take a while for brainlets to realize this.

I'm older than you.
The combat, playing as a badass fighting demons. The castle was a cool environment but I didn't give a fuck about the RE puzzle shit.
You're like 20, idgaf what you think.

>playing dmc for world building and immersion
the fucks the matter with you faggots

cope

Bro you smashed him. I got one earlier, he didn't even reply.

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Fans care about the combat dimwit and the combat is superb. NO ONE played dmc for puzzles and platforming. I can tell you guys picked it up a month ago to get ready for the new one.

>get nidhog hatchling
>walk forward
>use nidhog hatchling
*flosses*
how did my favorite streamer figure it out?

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>things that add to the game don't add to the game!!!
I like video games, what is the matter with you?

>Nothing of value was lost.
DMC3 Level design is worse than DMC1, which wasn't something to write home about.

You combat autists have legitimate brain damage if you think we got the games strictly for muh combos.

I think The Last of Us is a better choice for you.

Says the zoomer that got into the series because of the le epin youtube combo videos.

I'll rather take straight hallways more than DMC4's design. You clearly have no understanding that elements of your game are supposed to compliment each other.

I remember the days when casuals literally could not finish DMC3 whether because the bosses were too hard or they would get lost as FUCK in the tower. It felt like a real accomplishment to finish the game, you could literally brag about it. 5 is some casual shit in comparison and people are defending that, with their lives.

that's because DMChads openly admit the platforming and puzzles in their games are dogshit and unnecessary.

It's 95% of the pull of the series. You did NOT buy it for platforming. I'll tell you that right now.
I'm older than you and bought 1 around release.

i hated backtracking, wandering between samey rooms to find some magic stone which will open path to next stone. But visually, dmc3 and even 1 where better. City is shit, tower is shit, only underground crumbling city is good. Dmc5 lacks gothic dark atmosphere, and i combined so well with quips from dante

Yeah, I sure do miss having to roll a dice and deal with whatever bullshit it wants to make me do.
>b-b-but there's a trick to it!
Doesn't change the fact that it's cancer if you're going in blind and don't know how to get what number you want.

>I'm older than you and bought 1 around release
Around release of the HD collection on steam, I bet.

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>they would get lost as FUCK in the tower
Literally did not happen zoomer and even journalists finished DMC3 on normal(hard) mode.

The """puzzles""" and items didnt add anything mechanically they were incredibly shallow padding that required no thought or effort you get one item here put it into the obvious slot, its a fucking waste of time on every level and doesnt play to the series strengths which is combat variety. There is exactly 1 way to proceed and its obvious as fuck which is stupid for games designed for replayability. You niggers are weird if you can even get immersed into this goofy childish shit, but defending this crap padding is just absurd

style switching is less of an issue now that not-Rebellion has air combo without swordmaster, making it not necessary to constantly switch back to SM after using moves from other styles

>implying dmc3 had good level design
a pseudo open structure and unnecessary puzzles weren't a good thing

tfw all these zoomers

You can't even talk to them.

>Lost in the tower
I was 10 and I didn't get lost there. Which dumbfuck gets lost in hallways? There are only a few doors you can choose. The original did fuck me hard because of Yellow Mode.

>Being so young that you don't remember the times when gaming journalists were rightfully respected
Stop trying to fit in already, reddit.

I'm not even an old DMC player (I played some of 1, 3 and 4, but like an hour each maybe) and honestly the level design on this is pretty fucking poor. There's invisible walls every fucking where. Worst thing is the camera in general. Not the camera controls, just the camera. It's janky as shit, it feels odd and there's many angles where I lose sight of what I'm doing. If I set the camera distance differently, it's fucking headache inducing I swear.

Other than that though I like the game quite a bit. I just wish that it didn't have camera issues the way games a decade ago didn't.

THING FROM MY CHILDHOOD GOOD
THING FROM NOW BAD

ps2 original sonny. No one liked the platforming. The game was praised for combat.

They are NPCs, they aren't actually self-aware.

>There is exactly 1 way to proceed and its obvious as fuck which is stupid for games designed for replayability

as opposed to Devil May Corridor 5: Story-mode-is-bloody-palace edition? cope harder

>Yea Forums constantly shat on 3 and 4 "puzzles" before 5 came out
>now 5 is bad because it doesn't have them
Just admit that you want to hate this game because normalfags like it. Fucking contrarians.

I'm older than you and no they weren't respected you dumb cunt.

youtube.com/watch?v=NlPOYu0_Llc

I have to update my vocabulary, you're completetly correct.

>>Yea Forums constantly shat on 3 and 4 "puzzles" before 5 came out

>internet review shills
>ever respected
kek

youtube.com/watch?v=xQeQ39m_38A

>v arguments devolve into "no I'm older than you, [insert current buzzword here]"
Do you people even read the shit you write?

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I actually enjoyed the puzzles and platforming in these games, so shut the fuck up.

DMC3's level design was ass. The only time DMC had good level design was in the first game and that was only because it was partly a Resident Evil game.

Well yeah? It gives you a ton of mechanics and enemies to play around with letting you make every playthrough unique with expressive play and your options open up the more you play. Thats the whole point of the game, not the "puzzle" busy work.

But I only hate the level design, because it's shit. In the same way I hated the level design in 4 for being shit. You said it yourself, Yea Forums shat on aspects of 3 and 4 but that doesn't mean we didn't like the games (at least 3). Removing all level design is not how you fix it. Why should this game be exempt from critique?

I don't believe you.

literally nobody ever got lost in dmc3
the only marginally confusing section is the giant staircase on stage 3 or 4

I play it for the fun.

Mad zoomers who love puzzles in action games are lashing out at their elders.

>remaking the same thread 4 times in an a few hours

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>I have shit taste
Okay?

Cool. You don't have to.

Yes, I watched that same review because someone posted it in these threads no longer than a week ago. You can stop pretending you remember what gaming journalism was like 15 years ago.

And no, you aren't older than me, at least I sure hope so. Adults with your level of reasoning belong in a mental institution.

They did though. 3 and 4 puzzles are so braindead. People shit on 4's level design a lot. Nobody wanted to backtrack through that. DMC3's level design is worse than DMC1's, which was inoffensive and only required getting a key item and going to the next room to slot it in. Itsuno even said he removed them since people complained that they didn't want them.

Imagine playing Streets of Rage and having to collect keys then having to backtrack through pervious stages to open a door to reach the next stage. That's what zoomers want.

Dmc3s stage design wasn't that good. Temen ni gruu was too vertical and not so intuitive to keep. Some sub locations from there were great tho

>internet

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Oh hey, another shitpost image to filter

I'm the OP and I made that image just for this thread. It's the first thread I make criticizing DMC5. Nice try.

I hate it when people start defending the dice because there's a trick it really doesn't make it any better. 4 is way overrated on this board.

I know what it was like because I was around since the start. It was literally never good outside of some magazines, internet reviews were shill central from the very start.

>Yea Forums laughs at valve for removing a turn in half life 2 because it made people walk in circles
>Yea Forums also literally claps when DMC5 removes all level design so they won't get lost solving "simple" puzzles

yikes

actually wandering around looking for inane key items in order to progress isn't good level design

fuck off RE fags

Yes, the internet existed in 2005 and magazines were already dying back then.

Nobody got lost. Level design just didn't complement the combat. This is like asking somebody to swim for a minute before he can play the video game.

Imagine if the entirety of DMC was just bloody palace with no other aspects of design going on with the game. That is what zoomers want.

>internet reviews

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Removing extraneous bullshit is fine. HL2 would be a better game with no jetski shit for example. DMC1 didn't need the swimming section.

DMC1 had the best environment/"puzzle" design, 3 and 4 were often just annoying in that regard.

better than collecting keys and running around opening doors and doing brainlet puzzles at least

Yes. I too like swimming and schmup sections in my action game.

>It was literally never good outside of some magazines
I know it's hard for wojak posters but try reading the entire post.

DMC1 was nothing to write home about either. It was just slot it in this and then move on. It wasn't even as good as classic RE puzzles, which were easy.

>if you dont want my dumb bullshit level design it means you must want some other dumb bullshit and not anything actually good

kill yourself you hopeless retard

>puzzles and exploration don't fit in the hack and slash genre
All these fucking zoomers in this thread.

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>STOP CRITICIZING MY MONTHLY GAME OF THE DECADE
Get out of my fanbase, zoomers.

That's why I put puzzles in quotation marks.

>stop criticizing DMC3!
goes both ways dumbass

how low does your IQ have to be to find the "puzzles" and "exploration" of the DMC series stimulating?

That defense falls apart when you remember that the game itself doesn't give you any info about said trick.
The level design in 5 isn't perfect, but they did a lot of good by removing focus on puzzles.

Attached: dmc3.jpg (1280x720, 115K)

Nobody is stopping you. Go ahead, what's wrong with DMC3's level design beyond "WELL I JUST DON'T LIKE IT, PAL!"?

I personally don't like DMC5's completely absent level design because it robs me of the experience of adapting my playstyle to different situations. The game is already fairly slow and requires little awareness on my part to deal with the enemies, I think some well designed hazards and vertical design would be great to differentiate encounters with enemies I've already seen. That's something DMC3 does well when it's level design is at its best. It comes at the price of some lows like fighting the dullahans in the hall with the spinning blades, but I think a well experienced and competent level designer could have delivered more of the good examples and less of the bad ones instead of pussying out and removing that aspect from the game entirely.

Game literally had tank controls. Was closer to RE than dmc.

What's wrong with this?

Do people think ludicrously biased pictures like that do anything besides make them look like retards?

>wojak posters
help yourself
>pepes/wojaks/eceleb image hashes'
ghostbin.com/paste/zutnb
ghostbin.com/paste/u89nf
ghostbin.com/paste/76qpu
>text filters
pastebin.com/C1TxDb0N

>suddenly Yea Forums likes shitty platforming and chore puzzles as if they weren't poor distractions from the bread and butter of the game which were combat encounters
the ONLY game where the level design was somewhat competent was DMC1, and that's only because it was built using the RE4 skeleton
DMC3 did a poor job at emulating that, and 4 was just shit all around

levels in an action game are supposed to be good looking setpieces and backgrounds for your combat encounters, which 5 does great
before the game came out people in daily dmc threads were actually relieved that the levels will be more streamlined, but now a bunch of contrarians are keen to separate themselves from newcomers to the series by latching onto some dropped elements from the previous games they 99% of the players won't ever miss

Didn't the first Ninja Gaiden have tons of exploration and an almost castlevania like level design?

It doesn't have to be an all or nothing situation.

These pictures generate (You)s like crazy. It's the sole reason for their existence.

Design, in general, is as much about what you don't insert. That said, you're exaggerating the blandness of 5. There's timed platforms, rising platforms, you got your grim grips, you got your hidden ledges, you got a little secret skateboard park, you got the hidden walls for Nightmare to pop out of, Theres a bunch of little ledges for you to stinger launch from, Theres that series of levels that's just a bunch of drops, you have the same elevator gimmick from 3, timed doors, keys and doors, breakable walls, breakable floors, stairs, a boss thats just a huge moving platform. You're dangerously close to establishing a strawman about how "non existent" the level design in 5 is. It's there, there a variety of quirks, jsut because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I actually really like the room design of 3, but the puzzle design sucks ass. I'm someone who speedruns RE for fun, and I can tell you 3's puzzles are retarded. Navigation the TNG is made into a pain because a lot of connecting corridors look the same and the map is barely a help. The fact you have to go backwards does not improve on the level design. Most people just end up skipping fights because its literally the same one you just did. All that said, I don't think DMC3 was designed poorly. Its just inelegant. I think at worst, thats what can be said about 5, I don't think its perfect either. You should try to avoid hyperbole if you want to be taken seriously.

>nostalgia cocksucking op gets btfo in his own thread
Ohnonono

Man, Dishonored type level design isn't suitable for a game like DMC, get over it

>bandwagonning zoomers so btfo they have to pretend they are "winning"
Seek help.

I've been discussing this series for almost 20 years and I've seen the platforming praised exactly 0 times before this thread.

Platforming is the best thing about DMC series. Your just a dumb zoomy who can't understand the nuanced intricate gameplay.
Go mash square on some punching bags, zoom zoom. I will be doing insane jumps that require 200 iq to pull off.

Seconding this post. In fact one the things said about DmC was that they improved the platforming and nothing else when no one gives a shit about the platforming in DMC.

agreed, well put user
I've been playing DMC3 immediately before release and I think the levels in 5 have a lot more going for them than people here give them credit for, particularly in terms of exploration and finding hidden areas, the levels are dense with that shit

I bet most of the people who complain about the levels being simple couldn't even find all the orb fragments and secret missions

I've been grinding on level 13 for an hour and only just fucking realized it has hidden holes you can jump down to reach secret tunnels. I'd be willing to bet there's a lot of shit people have simply missed so far.

>giving a shit about exploration and """"puzzles"""" in a character-action game
Both were literally just leftovers from the series' beginnings as an RE game, they have no real place in this genre.

Hell, why don't you bitch about Vital Stars getting axed, too?

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I miss the sound it makes when you pick the item up and it spins into infinity.

But the only options in the DMC3 map you used are "go forward" and "go backward".

>find that one room in mission 11
>destroy some furniture and question marks pop up on the screen
>think to myself it's some kind of bug
>mfw I get the kalina ann after a few seconds standing there
that single moment elevated this game's level design by a mile for me

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>it's a character action game, that means it doesn't have to have level design

>put platforming in 3
>put backtracking in 4
>complain about it
>remove them in 5
>complain why they were removed
kek

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you must be braindead if you think 5 doesn't have level design, read the above few posts

It's not just the level design that sucks ass. The characters take a note from DmC, the story blows, everyone's a a cunt, and the content is piss poor. If I had to rank the games:

DMC 3 > DMC 1 > DMC 4 > DMC 2 > DMC 5

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Oh yeah I forgot to mention that tower """"puzzle"""" in my big post. Theres a lot of stimulating shit, I'm not gonna lie and say its hard, or even needs to be solved in any way. But thats the mark of good design, you don't even notice its there. Is there an alternate universe where DMC5 has amazing god tier puzzles? yeah probably. But its dumb to criticize a game for what it doesn't have. For instance, where the fuck is the racing minigame with Dante on Cav and Vergil on Geryon complete with jousting boss? Shit game 4/10

Are you ok Barry?

Seeth harder.

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>Before 5 came out
>"the level design in DMC was never good"
>one of the common criticisms of 3 is its level design
>After 5 came out
"The previous DMC games before 5 had great level design and 5 is a trash game"

you can tell it's just a couple of autists who probably didn't even care about the series before this one released

OP's map is more linear than most DMC5 maps.

It's funny to me that it's happening.
One of the most common criticisms of all the previous DMC games was the level design, puzzles and platforming because it kept you from the action, now in 5 they have toned that down and streamlined the levels to funnel you into the action much more often, but now it seems like you frequently see complaints about 5's level-design, lack of puzzles and platforming.

>journos were respected oncve upon a time
Adults with your level of reasoning belong in a mental institution.

>putting 2 before 5

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am I the only one who missed like 90% of the secret missions on my first playthrough?

Still a HnS.
and Capcom fixed that in the HD release, give it a try

>One of the most common criticisms of all the previous DMC games was the level design, puzzles and platforming
I seriously hope you're at least get paid for it and not just pretend to be this retarded for free. I really do.

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The real surprising thing about DMC5s level and encounter design is the lack of gimmicks, like I remember in 3 stuff like the elevators, the cart rides, the bits where enemies are DT unless a wheel is lit, 5 is just straight forward fight to fight inbetween bosses and its kinda boring that way.

I don't even know what specific aspects people are talking about. ALl the platform sections in old DMC's was a task of wrestling with the controls and the puzzles are the most basic "just solve it backwards" type shit. I think 5 is the best in terms of hiding the orbs/SM's because the realistic graphics means you can hide things a bit more naturally.

it's universally agreed that the game shits the bed in its second half in terms of levels, sure it's not as bad as dmc4 but you can really tell they needed to stretch their resources thin to make the game a bit longer

Platforming in DMC has always been awful you stupid bastard. Like since the original.

so are you just ignoring
or what

Yeah remember the broken bridge in 1. Remember trying to get the blue orb on the rafters in 3? Remember the megaman tiles in the forest in 4? Such great set pieces worthy of carrying on to the new generation.

The picture you're using is full of shit. There's at least 5 or 6 different times I went a good minute and a half off the beaten path in DMC5 to find blue orbs and secret missions. And those are just the ones I've found unassisted.

They're right and you're wrong.

I was strictly talking about how level design and encounters were straight forward while in combat. The closest things to gimmicks in the fights have been those helix things that can trap enemies.

>someone actually liked the dice puzzle
Wow.

he's right

>linearity is bad

off the top of my head I can't think of many specific gimmicks that were present in dmc3 and aren't in 5, maybe the only one being those spinning blade rooms

3 had plenty of gimmicky enemies in general and I'm sure glad as fuck they're gone

Are you cunts seriously now going to defend the cube room and dice gimmick?

Not a lot of those were good anyway. That spiral drill hallway is just dumb and not because I'm bad at it. The dula's are easy because they just float. Regular enemies are juggle fodder anyway so who gives a shit. Its just not interesting because in combat it can be ignored. What are you talking abotu specifically that you wish would come back?

>they sure don't make puzzle and platforming sections like they used to anymore
Good.
Those sections should vanish completely. Reward a player with an optional item like blue orb fragment based on one's rank or if one performs some specific action in combat encounter.

it's funny how people in this thread who whine about the levels being too linear call others zoomers, when in reality the open structure meme is a relatively recent phenomena

they also seem to mistake backtracking for non-linearity

>imagine Trish getting pinned against a gray wall, that's the same color of her fucking boring bitch-ass character who imperonates moms becuase she's literally an unholy wretch with no dignity whatsoever, while at the same time the demon-whore who suckled Mundus' big red tri-balls and had so much piss-stained demon cum splurged all over her hair, it got dyed blond, is being fisted with pizza up her matrix-2000 black fetish pants ripped apart, so hard the term yeast infection gets a new meaning, and with her last whoreish, skanky, breaths she coughs up the crusty, hell-cum out her ps2-octagon mouth, leaving her dark soul unfilled, yet her ass stuffed to the brim

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god's work

NOW it's a proper dmc thread

The elevator segments didn't add anything other than a timer to the fights. There's several present in 5 though that open up optional paths if you kill all the enemies before they hit the weight limit. I might wrong though since I fucked every one up, but Nero makes some really obvious "you failed this challenge" lines when the platforms collapse.

don't you ever stop posting this shit in dmc threads

>DMC1
>good level design
DMC1 is literally a modded Resident Evil game.

I haven't played 5 but the walking around the levels are easily the worst thing about 3 and 4. The puzzles are just unnecessary padding and the fights themselves always happen in small contained spaces. Nothing interesting happens outside the fights.

Bloody Palace is the best mode because it doesn't waste time on unnecessary bullshit.

B-but i liked the game...

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Except that 4 was "streamlined" in exactly the same way and everybody thought the level design sucked ass.

If the character action genre has nowhere to go beyond hallways that lead you through a sequence of flat circular monster arenas, then the genre doesn't need to continue. What is the point in even pretending that there are levels at that point? Just stick the player in the void and spawn enemies in. The illusion that I'm actually progressing through a world breaks very early on.

> Yea Forums hated DMC all along
Well well, aren't we lucky DMC5 came in just in time to save this shit series, my fellow zoomers?

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Its been stated multiple times that 5 has stimulating traversal between combat but none of you fags actually want to address that, so where does that leave of us.

you're taking out of your ass
people hated dmc4 levels because they consisted of terrible puzzles like the beyblades, the dice, or the forest platforms, they were visually bland and uninspired, and you were forced to go through each of them twice

it was only a matter of time when """fans""" started their OLD GAME GOOD NEW GAME BAD rhetoric

notice how they don't talk about the gsmeplay because they know the other games don't have shit on DMC5, so they throw a fit about the levels instead even though they're blatantly wrong in their cricitisms which was addressed at multiple points in this thread

Why is Yea Forums so dedicated to anti-shilling this game? I've seen a lot of shilling for DmC too. Are we being raided?

Careful user, you're not allowed to criticize le new holy grail

>walk through corridor
>battle
>more corridor
>empty room with corridor on the other end
>"surprise" battle
>repeat
So stimulating, I can feel my neurons firing up just imagining it.

Because it doesn't. The traversal between combat is, you walk forward. A few times there those AWFUL contextual grapple hook platforms for nero. There's a part where a stupid super mario brothers lava platform rises up, and you have to wait for it because there's a delay of like 10 seconds between. Most of the time it's just fucking walking, and zero-challenge jumping, all the while you have to laboriously hit red orb nodules that they stick to the ceiling just to be obnoxious.

The level design is the exact same shit as 4. It is not even remotely different.

It's my favourite series. The puzzles and platforming were always a weak point. They will not be missed.

you dont need bactracking-enabled level-design in these days. You have enough storage space to make variety of arenas for player to fight in.
The main problem about DMC5 levels is lack of variety in terms of looks. City gets boring, tree gets boring instantly and theres nothing else.

post 2011 Yea Forums doesn't like it when people talk about and enjoy video games

It's the only game out this month for the allotted shitposting quota. They'll flock to Sekrio soon enough.

>they were visually bland and uninspired, and you were forced to go through each of them twice
you mean like the boring urizen demon world that you have to go through over and over again in multiple stupid flashbacks?

I actually think that that would be the correct way to go for the genre, just focus on the core gameplay and drop all other pretensions. You can still make cool setpieces with small arenas and tie a story to them if you want to.

(I do understand that this would be disappointing to a lot of players and that it would be a bad business choice. People want to immerse themselves in a world when they play a game, even if the genre isn't very suited to that.)

I love dmc5, but the level design was definitely a flaw and one of the reasons why I cant put it above 3.

Timed platforms, moving platforms, secret walls, secret floors, secret tunnels, branching elevators, multiple ledges to Streak/Stinger off of, Nightmare walls. ALl this shit is boring to you people?

I think DMC5 does really well with immersion, which is why it might be so appealing to newcomers

This happens to every somewhat popular game on release

i havent finished last Virgil fight on normal.

it's not 'put magic stone in a slot to open the door' puzzles like muh old games so it's automatically shit and might as well not exist

But it has that with the Hatchling

>core gameplay
level design is core gameplay. while you're at it, why don't you remove the ability to move your character, and also remove enemy attacks. Just turn it into a game where the entire purpose is to execute complex sequences of button presses to get a high score.

let's just reduce it to a single button game where you have to memorize a very specific frame-perfect sequence of presses. what purity. if you don't like that you're obviously not hardcore enough.

>new game comes out
>it's popular and normalfags like it
>Yea Forums goes nuclear
>repeat ad nauseam
Sekiro will be next.

>they were visually bland and uninspired
Just like DMC5's. The only area with a visually appealing or memorable aesthetic was the the one in mission 1, and only before you go into the hotel, which is a series of boring ass corridors.

>and you were forced to go through each of them twice
You walk through the same pathway of roots from the prologue 3 times and it feels like 10 because the whole game looks the same.

DMC5 is a linear upgrade from DMC4. Better game, seems issues.

And it still has the best level design in the series

The aesthetic and story in 3 are the only things it does better than 5

yeah, because it's all completely pointless, and unchallenging. it's deliberately designed to be irrelevant because "it's a character action game so only the combat is supposed to matter"

>DMC3 set primarily in a tower and therefore limited to a set of rooms that need to be filled with puzzles
>DMC5 is the way around a city towards a tree and therefore routes from A to B
Swings and roundabouts.

>shitty platforming and braindead puzzles are now 'core gameplay' in the dmc series

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yeah bro I too hated those piece of shit ancient games

I don't remember Yea Forums complaining about Bayonetta's level design even though it was literally nothing but corridors.
Guess this board really is nintendogaf.

Core gameplay is the fights, which happen on small flat circular arenas where the environment hardly matters. The moments of walking between these is just padding and not very interesting, especially on multiple playthroughs. The moments of finding keys to a slot or rolling dice don't test the same skills as the combat, ie. the core gameplay.

if you actually browsed dmc threads before release you'd know most fans didn't like the older level design

I think the real problem is that a lot of this stuff is extremely straightforward and easy to understand in hindsight so it doesnt register to brainlets that its level design. Level design doesn't just mean extremely obvious THIS IS A PUZZLE NOW, ACTIVATE YOUR PUZZLE SENSORS moments. Finding a hidden entrance is engaging ableit simple to execute. Its not fair to just say "that doesn't count" just because it wasn't frustrating. This is a game about combat after all.

And there's the rub. If you make the traversal easy and straight forward, it "doesn't exist" so it should never exist. If you make it difficult, then its dumb arbitrary bullshit like the dice room so it shouldn't exist. The solution here is to not be a fucking moron and appreciate that DMC5 has more than just straight corridors. It actually has more gimmicks going on for it than the other games if you pay attention to what you're actually doing outside of combat.

I'm older than you kiddo.

again "the DMC series" "this is the genre this is what it's supposed to be". if the game is supposed to be exactly the same thing that it was 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, why the fuck do we need any new games in the first place? even the fucking movesets for Dante and Nero are virtually identical to 4, and there are fewer characters than there were in 4 SE. what is the point?

I enjoyed 4 for its complete lack of level design and good combat system. This game is the same combat system. Why does it need to exist?

It's a good thing that it is just corridors between fights. What is bad about it is the QTE and mini game sections.

Its really dishonest. DMC5 doesn't have bland level design. But let's pretend it does so we can have an argument for no reason.

Because 5 is a much better game than 4.

Present in all 4 of the previous games. Sounds like a core aspect to me.

why should the environment hardly matter in the combat? because it didn't matter in the combat in devil may cry 1? which came out 18 years ago?

So because the environment didn't matter back then, it should never matter, because that's not the genre, and the genre can never evolve, add elements, become more complex. It has to be exactly the same thing over and over and over again.

excuse me for hoping that maybe after 11 fucking years they might actually bring something new to the table

That's actually the exact reason why I didn't like Bayo.

In a completely iterative sense. If DMC5 had come out 4 years after DMC4, it might have been justified. It's been 11 years.

you've pretty much exhausted the argument at this point user, hopefully you at least educated some shitposters

It added plenty of complexity just not gay shit like environmental interaction.

>Core gameplay is the fights, which happen on small flat circular arenas
That's only the case in DMC5, though. Previous games actually had varied arenas with varied conditions and hazards.

Yeah bro why didn't they innovate like nu GoW did?? Where are my escort missions and one million collectibles and shitty sidequests? It's the current year.

Bayo's levels weren't literal eye cancer and there was some variety in it similar to old DMC games. Like the slow motion things or the lightning dodging or even the running on walls and on the ceiling. DMC5 is just corridors and nothing else so it's objectively less interesting.

You two are the dishonest ones, you aren't even weighing the games properly.

personally I think that the combat and in particular the smoothness of the animations and the intricate motions that connect each of the moves really set a new standard in vidya

they managed to achieve jank-free combat that surpasses DMC4 while achieving amazingly detailed and realistic animations that put AAA western movie games to shame

There are a billion better games for atmosphere and level design then DMC 1. It’s only the best within the context of the rest of the series and isn’t worth highly praising because of that, it’s not that varied or even that good. I respect it, and it’s a good game, but I can only assume this is a thread full of bitter nostalgia friends or contrarian zoomers. 5s level design is fine and suits the gameplay of each character, it was never particularly amazing in any of these games. 3s wasn’t so good either, more linear than 5 with the exception of the minor backtracking that you do when the tower rises. If you want the spooky atmosphere and goofy action, there’s the Remake 2 right around the corner. Now stop whining OP

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You sound like a faggot game journo that complains about DMC5 playing like a ps2 game. Kill yourself.

it added more fucking moves that you can string into your combos that are functionally identical to moves you already had

"gay shit like environmental interaction". yeah when has a game ever benefited from adding elements to combat such as, I don't know, different elevation levels? sloped surfaces? destructibility? yeah none of that shit matters, give me 2 dozen more different launcher moves.

Let me give you a tip: if you wanna bait people, don't make it so obvious by putting 2 over 5

There's still plenty of jank or else anyone would be doing "combo mad" videos. And the animations are barely better than 4. Don't pretend DMC4 had bad animations.

Nincel

It’s not that bad and see

I am not saying that the environment should hardly matter in fights, though I suppose there is some kind of design reason behind this when they still do it. There are some moments in 3/4 where the fights happen on more varied areas but I'm not sure how much these really bring to the game.

But my main point was that the platforming, puzzle segments etc between the fights are not the draw of the game and are unnecessary. I'm not opposed to variety in the arenas themselves.

By the way I am not probably the guy you think you're replying to considering I have never argued against the things you mention. I guess it's better to end this discussion here.

The real issue with DMC5 is that Dante didn't go to the birthday party.

>different elevation levels? sloped surfaces? destructibility?
All exist in 5. Thanks for confirming you never played it. Now I can ignore your autistic ass.

>it wasn't perfect before
>so let's remove it instead of improving it, that'd require like, effort!
>phoneposter filename

honestly DmC is still the king in gameplay, bosses and level design

sure they weren't bad per se but at this point in time they're rather stiff, and gameplay wise this translates to many motions that can be cancelled with certain inputs and you end up with shit like guard flying or bad looking JC's

I don't even know what your argument is, did you want DMC5 to be more innovative? if so just play the V levels

But journos love DMC5. In fact, journos hate all the previous DMC games that aren't DmC... hmmmm.....

even if that were true, which it pretty much isn't, it would just mean that those are examples of "gay environmental interaction" that do add to the game.

of course, the game is, in reality, 99% flat combat arenas.

The DMC series has had consistently good reviews

The idea of DmC being a journo game and DMC not is from cherry picked tweets and articles,

Maybe they removed it because they knew it would be funny watching bitter little shits like you squirm in frustration
BANG
BANG
BANG

yeah bro new games all suck game developers should just make games exactly the same way they made them in 2004 with zero meaningful variation so I can keep buying the same game I already own over and over again

if you want new games to do new things, you're a cuck numale faggot amirite?

That post is irrelevant and really fucking bad. You people are memory holing video game designs in order to defend DMC5.

And when it goes wrong for you and people point out your shitpost, you retort with immature insults. Bayonetta was on PS3.

Cry more about me giving fair criticism to your fotm game, resetera.

You DMC5 white knights sound exactly like the tranny journos did when DmC was released. You are NPCs and can't understand fair critique, and you are probably mad that Trump is president.

DMC5 is only slightly better in the animation and jank departments comparing it to the 11 year old DMC4, that isn't impressive.

I wasn't making an argument I was just pointing out facts because you were needlessly fellating the game.
>V
>innovative
Yeah you're hopeless.

>You people
Classic us vs them mentality, aren’t you oppressed? I’m just saying it’s nothing worth jerking off or crying over and you’d be better off with RE or Souls. Seems more your speed, slow.

>exactly the same
>new weapons
>new characters
>new mechanics
>new bosses
>new secret missions for those extra mini challenges
>platforming and level design is still present regardless of whether or not it went in the direction you wanted it to
I'm not sure why you're so focused on this one aspect of the game either. You're saying DMC5 has done nothing new, while also complaining that the level design is simplified and different. What is it missing as far as innovation is concerned, when people have highlighted the level design (falling platforms, secret paths, environment destruction) several times? Dynamic arenas that would interfere with the game's philosophy towards player expression?

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>those goal posts
Pathetic damage control. Just kill yourself now.

What fair critism?

Shitposter goes full retard. Yikes.

>resetera
>NPC
>Trump
>tranny
This isn't even trolling anymore. Don't you get tired of rolling around in your own shit?

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You'll notice not a single GOAT action game puts an emphasis on environmental interaction.

>the hub is a big circle so the game isn't linear!

DMC3 was linear

Not an argument

They ARE those tranny journos mate. This is so ridiculous.

>and I've seen the platforming praised exactly 0 times before this thread.
so you admit that this is your first day on Yea Forums

The V levels only prove to me that they're totally out of fucking ideas for how to move the series forward. Hey guys, here's the exact same moveset for the two main characters of the game we put out a decade ago, plus this weird overpowered character that you can basically just mash buttons with and get max combos while never being in danger.

Imagine if V were the ONLY character in this game. People would fucking riot, and rightly so because he fucking sucks to play. That's not innovation, it's just shit design. Thank god they had the good sense to be as uncreative as they were.

Could a post ever be more effective at showing how stupid you are?

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I've been here longer than you and discussing this series online for nearly 2 decades.

>mentioning Trump in a videogame argument
it's time to leave

You didn't have one. "You people" was specifically speaking about you two morons who memory holed Bayonetta's level design in order to make DMC5 seem "just as bad" when it's in fact worse in that department.

"You people" as in you lying shills.

Level design is pretty much absent from DMC5. It did away with all the core aspects that characterized the DMC series' level design because the devs didn't want to put the effort on improving it and fixing what had been done wrong in the past.

All aspects from good inspired architecture, varied fighting arenas, puzzles and platforming were removed as if it was impossible to do it right. All they did was show their lazyness and incompetence.

>SHE SHOULD HAVE WON!! *drinks soi*
Seething dmc tranny cucks spotted

Enjoy your fucking garbage fucking game for tranny subhumans

5 more years, trannies, and after that get ready for that shock therapy when Pence becomes the next president.

>GOAT action game
which you define as games that don't emphasize environmental interaction. In my opinion, these "GOAT action games", IE DMC style character action games get pretty old pretty fast because they're nothing but pure combo execution. anything that gets in the way of just sequences of button presses makes a game less "GOAT" in your eyes.

and it would be one thing if DMC5 were just another one of those, but not only is it another one of those, it's another one of those in which most of the combos I'm executing are the SAME combos I was executing 10 years ago.

It's GOTYAY.

>remove garbage elements that were plaguing previous games
>NOOOO PUT IT BACK
Fucking lol to be honest.

Zoomers are also more (((diverse))) now

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haha look at him go

Maybe you should stick to fortnite, zoomer.

maybe you should stick to rhythm games

DMC god hand NG. All of these are GOAT pretty unanimously considered goat. Bayo is up there.

There's always been a retards in the fanbase. I believe you.

How are varied fighting arenas and good architecture garbage elements? Elaborate, shitposter.

I don't wanna hear anyone ever tell me that 2016 didn't ruin Yea Forums. We have retards shitting on DMC and dragging it into their retarded culture war no one outside of niche pockets of the internet cares about. Everything is MUH POLITICS and MUH SJWs to them. It's a mental illness at this point.

R E N T F R E E

Literally this. The first i played was 3 when it came out on the ps2, then 4 and now this. It's been more than a decade of playing and in every game, the worst part is the fucking puzzles that are simply UNFUN. The puzzles in DMC where a carryover from RE, they just seem to "belong" in this game because they where in the first one, they are just a big meme that dragged along for too long. It was about time that Itsuno decided to get rid of them(mostly).

ok but does that mean you are not mad about Trump being president? Because your point is kind of invalid if you are.

What varied fighting arenas? Everything becomes the same locked room throughout all the games, with a jarring disconnect between poor platforming segments and fighting. There's a few room with varied elevations (stairs and shit) in 3, but none of it contributed much to the flow of battle at all, let alone enough to leave a lasting impression. How would you have suggested they fix shit that never really worked with the series' combat philosophy?

And there's still puzzles in the form of secret missions, and nothing in 1 or 3 is particularly brain-wracking either. The nidhogg shit is simpler, but ultimately accomplishes the same set up of grab shit, run around, open door.

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No one liked cube room you stupid fuck. No one. Or broken bridge.

>DMC god hand NG
games that proved their point in the 00s. now this is just the exact same thing, again. which is "fine", but it's not interesting.

Sir I believe you mistook this place for /pol

Trump being president has literally nothing to do with Devil May Cry. This is the issue. You're genuinely fucking retarded and the fact that there's more than one of you is sickening.

Nero actually works nicely with platforming since his fall speed is slower and he has a triple jump

sure thing newfag

>How would you have suggested they fix shit that never really worked with the series' combat philosophy?
maybe change up the series' combat philosophy. you know, try something new?

>same combos
>devil breakers
>Sin Devil Trigger with Quad upgrade
>new guns and weapons for Dante
>new bosses
What the fuck are you talking about?

They're a genre you don't enjoy. It's like me asking for FPS games to have tetris sections because I like Tetris and not shooters. Just play something else.

so they patched some new things onto a combat system from 11 years ago. I don't think it was worth the wait.

Why would they change the main reason people play these games and still call it part of the same series? Not only that, but all three characters flow through combat differently, with Dante being a walking arsenal, Nero having you plan and react with broken Devil Breakers, and V's focus on positioning and excessive DT gauge management. Is that not changing it up enough?

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>What varied fighting arenas?
Take a look at any and all of the areas in the previous games. I'm having a hard time thinking of a single square room in DMC1, DMC3 or DMC4 that isn't the first 2 levels of DMC3. And yet, they are everywhere in DMC5.

ok but am I wrong or not? just say you are not mad and I'll accept my theory was wrong. If I'm right, however, my theory holds water and I'll have to ask you to fuck off back to resetera, like the next guy:

>strawman
Seething tranny journo. Go back to resetera.

That's fair enough then. The series sort of prides itself on the fundamental combat system, so you bought the wrong game of you were expecting a full turnabout. To each their own.

LMAO

I don't live in your country of politicians who spend their day sucking corporate cuck, bro.

All aspects from
>good inspired architecture,
>varied fighting arenas,
I'll grant you these, even though there are a few standouts in the game, it's not even close to what DMC4 brought us

>puzzles and platforming were removed as if it was impossible to do it right.
Maybe the dev team tried and saw it wasn't fun, I sure as hell didn't enjoy platforming and puzzles in DMC4, it was a pain in the ass and very unrewarding. The only thing I'll grant you is that the levels are way too linear and have nothing to explore, even MGR Revengeance had more stuff to do in its levels, but puzzles and platforming would need some serious work to even hope to be as fun as the combat. Serious work that could be spent doing anything else.

>change the series' combat philosophy
in a game released 10 years after its other entry and whose only real hope was to bring back fans of the genre and attract new ones by sticking to core values of the series? Yeah no. They KNEW what people wanted in DMC: crazy combat that deviates only slightly from what they once gave, and these deviations have to be stuff that only adds to the combat's craziness and fun.

You don't even know what a strawman is. Holy fuck I am way too good to spend time talking to you. Peace kiddo.

>Opinions on the president having anything to do with Devil May Cry.
See a therapist.

I really don't think you're getting the point. I love God Hand, but if God Hand 2 came out after 14 years and it were virtually the same thing as the first game, it would be disappointing.

Name a DMC game that didn't have shit level design. And no, posting a map of the entire game doesn't count, DMC3 was still linear as fuck.

Level design and branching paths was NEVER the focus of the franchise, if you actually expected that from DMC5 you didn't play the original games, you poser.

The one thing I do miss is the fantasy architecture in the new game. It didn't have to be gothic either, since it's a giant tree why not have an art nouveau inspired buildings since it's organic and curvy, almost like the insect demons built it and live here?

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