The map in Ds2 doesn't make se-

Reminder that Iron Keep is actually on the sun

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vocaroo.com/i/s0GoLpHoUcsH

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Git gud

the sun isn't made of lava

do people really die to the archers?
just run and they will miss.
after that just parry since parrying Black knights is the easiest thing i n the game and by that point in the game you should have figured out how to parry.

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shit opinion

git gud noob its not even that hard zoomer.....

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Have you checked?

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>its a shockwave!

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lava is convoluted user

but there's a bonfire next to Gwyndolin?

New Londo being built inside an underground cave with the only natural light being from the main gate leading out to Valley of Drakes strikes me as odd.

works on my machine

>its a "muh floating castles are too unrealistic for my fantasy game" episode

vocaroo.com/i/s1a1bfSt3IWi

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so you're telling me, even if the sun was made of lava, that the elevator you take goes 93 million miles in 10 seconds?

>solaire wants to find the sun
>well prepared for this journey, he already has the orange charred ring equipped to walk on lava
GET VAATI ON THE PHONE

>defeating Ornstein first
deserved it

git gud god your shit kid

It’s based on mythology so that makes it okay

time is convoluted user

This is the very thing that makes the world make sense you absolute retard

-nse

but how can there be lakes above this area when it is impossible for there to be lava lakes above the area in dark souls 2

I love DS bickering threads. I still don't understand how people can love one installement and hate another considering it's almost the same game mechanically, but these threads are super funny.

it's a video game user, they just fast-forwarded the travel time

basic storytelling is hard/convoluted

vocaroo.com/i/s1l8vktNn9cs

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that's what he's saying

>hes shit because the game is shit

only ds1 fags

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Not the guy you replied to: shit bosses, shit areas and slow as fuck gameplay don't have anything to do with difficulty. Time to stop defending your first action rpg.

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hitboxes are convoluted for from software

I just beat Dark Souls for the first time. Why do people use that many humanity? Is it to get better loots?

So I guess DaS2 has zero redeeming factors then considering it has worse bosses, areas, and gameplay

zoomers are literally this retarded

It's so when they invade you, your shitty +7 weapon will do 120 damage and their +10 chaos zweihander does 1200

>Why do people use that many humanity? Is it to get better loots?
they use them for healing, especially speedrunners

user bear with me for a while, if something is established in the lore, even something so stupid like world being held by turtles that are riding on elephants or trees holding up earth, it is way better writing compared to unexplained floating castle surrounded by lava

i don't think you guys are picking up what im putting down.
i'm not saying that it doesn't make sense the same way ds2 doesn't make sense
i'm saying thats its pretty ridiculous that that oceans, places like anor londo and mountains are being held up by trees

>rolling right into the attack
>s-surely its the games fault!
Y I K E S

The god tier list.

DaS = BB > DaS III > DeS >>>>>>> DaS II

Why do people automatically assume the elevator in DS2 takes you up? Maybe the world around the elveator is sinking into lava instead?

Execution is everything
No one cares that a the top of a clocktower in bloodborne opens up to the ocean because the sequence that lead there looked cool
An elevator ride simply does not cut it

That's why I like it, it's different from ds1 and ds3,

>implying
DaS2 has kino areas (especially but not limited to DLC) and faster gameplay. 1 has only slightly better boss fights. Therefore DaS2 wins. Rekt ;)

That makes even less sense retard. Iron keep would still have to be floating in the sky and now it must magically stop floating by the same amount that the ground has sunk by

If there was a throwaway line in an item description about the castle being invisible from the outside, would that make it okay?

>kino areas

Where?

>No one cares that a the top of a clocktower in bloodborne opens up to the ocean because the sequence that lead there looked cool
and also because it takes place in a dream world

Its pretty ridiculous that there is magic and people can manifest souls.
Trees are better explained and established in the lore and its fucking cool anyone disagreeing with me is gay
Lava castle just came out of nowhere

Yes you dumb zoomer

>1 has only slightly better boss fights
Bosses in 1 are really shitty and easy. People complain that everything in 2 is a jumping knight but they sure as hell are more fun to fight than shitty demons in 1.

It would.

>DaSIII>DeS

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das 3 is fanfic level of shit, and das 2 is even worse

I concur. 1 has the worst bosses in a series with bad bosses

>Its pretty ridiculous that there is magic and people can manifest souls.
then why do people bitch about ds2 elevator?

This. You can have weird geometry all you want if there's an explanation for it. Ash Lake is basically another dimension, and Bloodborne is based on Lovecraft which deals a lot with Impossible Space that drives men mad. An elevator ride into somewhere new doesn't make sense.

AND you have creatures falling from the sky.

In this thread we list things that make Dark Souls 2 the best Souls game. I'll start:

>Non-linear first half of the game allows you to rush straight to the areas of the game that contain the items for your build

>Chugging Estus immobilizes you, and the heal isn't instantaneous meaning trying to chug while someone is sticking close to you will result in death

>Stamina regeneration is tied to weight, so a character at 10% burden will recover their bar faster than a character at 70% burden, giving an advantage and a reason to make a low burden character

>Poise exists and armor provides relevant, but not overpowering damage reduction, giving an advantage and a reason to make a high burden character

>Phantoms and Dark Spirits cannot chug estus, spirits can only heal via spell useage which is slow. This makes fighting outnumbered even without mob assistance possible since any damage you do sticks

>Can only perform four rolls before running out of stamina

>Can only perform 5 attacks of a rapier or straight sword before running out of stamina

>Parrying has longer recovery frames and consumes more stamina, making parry fishing riskier and makes parrying require higher skill

>Power stance allowing for unique combinations of dual wielding and unlocking an alternative moveset for weapons

>Being able to use the full moveset of a weapon in your off-hand including running, rolling, backstepping, etc. attacks rather than just being able to do a basic R1 swing and blocking with the weapon as it is in Ds3 (lmao who would ever want to weapon block)

>Bell Tower covenant providing two unique optional areas to PvP for Titanite Chunks, Slabs, and Twinkling, making farming for upgrades fun

>Bonfire ascetics to replay bosses you like and or gain items from NG+ and beyond without grinding through the whole game again

>No bonfire and no death challenge where you can beat the game without resting at a bonfire or dying to gain a reward and bragging rights

The top of the clocktower is a portal/memory to the fishing village, hidden away. It's well explained in the lore and story up to that point and makes perfect sense compared to "walk into a 200m tunnel below majula, now you are 5km away in heide's tower"

No since it still wouldn't make sense to go up due to the in-game map.

The Iron Keep emerges from lava as Harvest Valley sinks due to Archimedes principle, retard.

Yes actually and Ash Lake got way more than simple item description
youtu.be/vpAqgIe05So?t=112

But all he did was walk into a cloud of dust.
>hhh... HHH... GRRRRR AYAYAYAYAYAYA!!! YOU FUCKING DARK SOULS 2 BASTARD! WILL YOU NEVER SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!! WHAT DID I EVER DO TO YOU Oh my FUCKING GOD! *pffbrbt* OH GREAT, NOW LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO! *waddles away*

Don't get me wrong, I love demon's. But most of the bosses are gimmicky shit. For that reason III beats it

Well the Kiln in DS1 is below the Abyss yet it has its own sun/skybox with no explanation. Why doesn’t anyone complain about that?

literally all of them.
>N64 Woods
only normies care about graphics
>Iron Keep
ridiculous Bowser's Castle reference
>Shrine of Amana
fixed in SOTFS
even the worst areas are kino user. just give up.

There are several reasons
> They use it for the defense bonuses it provides, especially at 99 soft humanity.
> It is there due to using Humanity as basically a full heal.
> It does increase I think luck values for enemies dropping stuff, unsure.
> Chaos weapons get increased damage based upon your soft Humanity amount up to 10 maximum. Not sure if anything else is affected by such similarly.

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>Ash Lake is basically another dimension
It isn't and you can even see the upper parts from the TotG.

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And DaS3 bosses are just shit.

because its kino you retarded zoomer

>kino
You mean ludo?

>Defending shit design cause it's your favorite game
The lightning has clearly disappeared by the time he starts to move in, why would he be expecting to get hit by an attack that the game is trying to show is over?

>matter moves through matter without changing any of its properties
Who's the retard

Yes, medieval fairytales are definitely what the cool kids like.

>trap that punishes overly eager zoomers
cringe

What the fuck is this meme? Why do retards (probably the same retard) keep posting this picture?

The abyss isn't the bottom of the world. It's localised to specific areas. If you had more than one brain cell you would know this

Why don't you explain how this is possible then, huh?

Tbh i think they put a skybox to hide ash lake from everything else and give it a sense of vastness but shoddy japanese programming stopped them

I think the lighting change that occurs whenever you enter Blighttown is worse than any transition in all of Dark Souls 2

only """zoomers""" say shit like kino and 4u

truly a zoomer's opinion

>archtree area has skybox
>archtree area is hidden deep down in the earth
>kiln is also underground
>kiln has its own skybox
It would explain all the ash, since witches burned square kilometers of trees

Reminder that Return to Drangleic starts tomorrow (02/23)
Who else is hyped?

>Drangleic is an entire country on a large island
>can run from one end to the other in around 2.5 minutes
>mfw looking at the map in Cale's mansion and realising you just ran at 2000 kph

Time is convoluted

The Kiln in DS1 can be wherever they want it to be, Frampt brings us there through a teleport. That's like complaining the Painted World has it's own skybox.

>Ng+ switches up enemies you meet and introduces more bosses instead of just slapping on some more hp and damage

With the hydra spewing water?

As ridiculous as magic spells, giant anime weapons that have flippy attacks and monsters? How about the entire Undead curse, boy it sure is ridiculous that I'm alive, didn't I died? How about drinking fire to heal?

DaS2 is easily explained by spacetime being out of wack and different places being connected as a consequence. Why do retards keep spamming this meme of muh floating castle.png when this was always known?

ds2fags are almost as unbearable as smashfags recently

>more bosses
You mean more enemies in boss rooms?

this is bait

seething

That's the point my dear anonymous friend.
One is explained or alluded to
Another one is invisible floating lava castle

yeah man, an elevator going to a different place than expected is ridiculous too!

You're an idiot.

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Because if it was actually visibly connected (entire rest of the souls franchise) then people would accept that space and time is convoluted, instead of B team fucking the game

But they have god tier encounters sich as Centipede Demon and Ceaseless Discharge

Ever heard of the world tree in Norse mythology? Yggdrasil.
Also, youtu.be/rV3_fx-LiK4&t=59s

>

Reminder that bitching about different skyboxes and areas like Ash Lake connecting to that fire castle is a sign of autism since autists cannot mentally cope with things being out of place

>No one cares that a the top of a clocktower in bloodborne opens up to the ocean because the sequence that lead there looked cool

Youre in the memory of another person for the DLC.

The clocktower functions as a door into the memory of what started the curse. It's magical shit.

Because it's stupid as fuck. No amount of "explanation" will make taking an elevator up from the top of a windmill to reveal a giant lavascape not un-natural as fuck. That's not even the worse bit of world design though, the little pile of rubble in front of the path to the castle proper is the dumbest horseshit I've ever seen. Can that be explained by your silly spacetime excuse?

>i'm saying thats its pretty ridiculous that that oceans, places like anor londo and mountains are being held up by trees
Honestly I think it's cool as hell.
Who knows, might be one of those things like how an egg is extremely fragila on 90% of its surface but if you hit it at just the right angle with enough force to shatter it in any other place, the structure of the thing makes it so it takes no damage at all.

>B-b-but Dark Souls 1 did it too!!
This is literally the only defense that DS2fags EVER have. I'll take an original game with some questionable design choices over a sequel that fails to fix the questionable design choices of the original, while adding in new ones of its own.

Thanks doc

I think an elevator ride down would have been a step up.

Its way more ridiculous and nothing you say can prove otherwise

You mean like DaS1 is to DeS?

he didn't play it

I think a ride up would've been fine if the elevator looked suitably magical. If the ride up featured some crazy transition mid ride I wouldn't care at all, but the ride is just like any normal ride up an elevator.

>Floating castle
>Edgeless lavascape a short elevator ride over a windmill
>Also unseeable from below

All they had to do is make the elevator go down really fast like the new londo elevator

damn how does the liquid just suspend itself in mid air like that ???

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Now that im thinking about it, archtrees and underground world was already in DS so why didnt they just put the elevator down and redirects any complaints to original game

I've been replaying ds1 and fuck the second half really is shit. Worse than I remember it being. Played through scholar as well and had a surprisingly good time with it with the exception of the co-op areas in the dlc. Those are still fucking awful beyond belief. 3 has so many obnoxious enemies and one too many swamps. DeS still has the best area design if you ask me and bosses. I don't care if half of them are gimmicky they were far more memorable than guy in armor with vertical slam and horizontal sweep.

Its hidden from ground view by the same sky illusion magic that made Anor Londo look like day time and hid the moon

git gud zoomer

>how is it possible for this thing that is shown off ingame and is explained in the intro to happen? This other thing that has no lore explanation or visual indication, so why can't this thing be possible?

Gee I wonder user.

DaS did fix questionable design choices from DeS, though:
>world tendency
>trash gimmick bosses
>pseudo-stealth with the thief's ring
>sting ray spikes
>not enough shortcuts
>hokey level design in general

I love Dark Souls 1

Attached: From Firelink to Blighttown.webm (1280x720, 1.78M)

This place sucks dick and most of the ds1 map and boss are shit anyway.

actual framerate

never seen this before, holy shit

Iron Passage might be one of the worst things I have ever experienced in a videogame
And then there's the sgment leading up to Sir Alonne.

wrong, wrong and wrong.

>have perfectly fine in-game map
>connect everything in nonsensical ways, including transitions in the levels themselves

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The same reason why they put the shrine of winter off the main road to the castle, while blocking the main road with a pile of rubble that even a limbless retarded person could climb over. They weren't thinking very hard or smart, and no one else in the dev team bothered to think about it either.

Well to be fair the trees could make thick and dense enough bark at the top that they basically create a solid gapless wood ceiling, of course this is implying that the trees are made of the strongest material in the universe

BB > DS1 > DeS > DS2 > DS3

This is indisputable

Now you're stuck behind several slow elevator rides that probably takes even more time than just running.

BB > DS1 > DS3 >>>>>>> DS2

I legit didnt even mind the elevator in dark souls 2 i always just assumed it was a magic elevator.

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git gud

>DS3
>better than anything
It literally feels like what a Souls game made by a Western dev would be like

Me neither. I don't care about the lore or having things be explained. I think cool impossible geography stuff like that is more of what the series needs

Attached: Drangleic's Magic Mountains.jpg (1913x2151, 1.02M)

The elevator is illogical even with suspension of disbelief.

That's the difference.

Still was more fun to play then DS2

The archers were originally in a more annoying spot. A patch moved them to make it easier to dodge/just run past the arrows. Still wasn't worth bitching about though. Worst case scenario you died a few times before figuring it out, which is how the entire game was approached.

Is that supposed to be an insult?

>dude why are even having trouble with this enemy lol it's easy
>please notice how cool I am
This is why people hate the dark souls fandom. There's one of you in every DS thread.

then so is the world being held up by trees

Not if it's a sun made of ice.

based retard sticking to his guns

Why do people bother with any other upgrade path when chaos is obviously the best? I'm not going to use some faggy lightning weapon when chaos exists.

It's a shortcut you fucking mongoloid

What's the problem with this?

How did they fuck this up? Even DS1 did the time travel bullshit with much more consistency

git gud

It’s not time travel, it’s a memory. It doesn’t have to be completely accurate.

....
....
uh....
...TIME AND SPACE ARE CONVOLUTED or something like that.

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because it's ds1 and Matthew matosis didn't make a video criticising that game. ds3 could have done all the same things and gotten away with it too.

Time is literally convoluted. Word of god.

Trees are established in intro
Invisible floating lava castles weren't
Pick one that is more believable.

a visualization as to why a world being held up by trees are more believable than iron keep

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Invisibility magic was already established in 1.

KF > DeS > DS1 > DS3 > DS2

Maybe the trees have been carved into a lift

if the iron keep is a floating island, then how come the lava doesn't harden up? isn't it cold the higher up you go?

>the trees are a sphere
whoa

The painted world is literally its own dimension.

and as it turns out people have the ability to paint new worlds. Magical shit. These new dimension can also have the fire linked.

well now that you mention it, some of it actually is hardened, like the parts you can walk on that have items on them but they still hurt you

they were in the intro but it looked like the lords, cities and such were on the same level as the trees

are you fucking joking me, leaves holding up oceans.

It could be flat.

based

fucking v2

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How is it realistic that a bunch of trees hold up the fucking world

Are you fucking serious right now?

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Because the developers put some thought behind it unlike DaS2? Fuck off, lava nigger.

because its kino you zoomer

Fairly certain this is from a video literally about breaking the boundaries intentionally to show off how cool and detailed the game world is, like this:
youtu.be/CjmTL39l9fM
That might even be the video itself, I didn't bother rewatching the whole thing.

wouldn't that much water fuck with the trees trunks and make them weaker or whatever, im not a nature guy

not me but good point

Imagine this here, only on a gigantic scale and times however large the DS world is supposed to be.

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And it had a point, while also being used by literal god
Who is holding illusion over space lava castle
>they were in the intro but it looked like the lords, cities and such were on the same level as the trees
Even if, we are still between a poorly conceived idea and pure asspull
>are you fucking joking me, leaves holding up oceans.
If you want to be that nitpicky then lava cant exist in Dark Souls altogether because there is nothing heating it up, unlike ours earth core

what if a bunch of termites eat your tree? then your world goes tumbling into space

Hey you're right. What's heating up the lava?

The hot air from these threads.

It isn't realistic you dumbo, neither is almost every element in the souls series BUT it is explained in it's own lore and does operate on that ruleset which can be seen by the player in game for themselves. Realism doesn't matter if there is an explanation to the fantastical, in the case of the Arch Trees they are explained AND demonstrated visually in game while the elevator to lava town has no explanation whatsoever.

There aren't any oceans being held up. You can see the edges of the tree's canopy from firelink. In DS3 all of the trees have crumbled away.

>If you want to be that nitpicky then lava cant exist in Dark Souls altogether because there is nothing heating it up, unlike ours earth core

thats why im saying the whole trees holding up world thing is retarded. it fucks with so many things

>the elevator to lava town has no explanation whatsoever.
It does in the Design Works book interview: they simply fucked up.

sure do-

Attached: ds2.jpg (1280x720, 349K)

tree branches right in this fucking image

where is the fucking problem?

Not everything needs an explanation and even if there was one it wouldn't be interesting anyway

Those would be some large termites. Wonder if they ever poo? Like, how big would it be and what if you got to be part of it haha
Just a joke haha

>i'm saying thats its pretty ridiculous that that oceans, places like anor londo and mountains are being held up by trees

maybe fantasy games aren't meant for you then

>taking a joke seriously

>soulsfags demonstrating their immense autism once again
You guys should have a debate over the floating objects in Mario, I'd pay to see that

>DS3
im talking ds1. and that would be weird if only half or some of the world is being held up by giant trees

I've beaten Dark Souls 1 at least 4 times and never had this happen to me
How old is this webm?

THEN WHY DO PEOPLE BITCH ABOUT DS2 ELEVATOR

Alright you fuckers, time to end this once and for all

Magic > Faith > Pyromancy

Because its cringe and unrealistic

"Tanimura: The idea is that the lake of magma is actually on the upper strata, like a caldera lake on a plateau. However, looking down from the top it was far too wide, that and the fact that there isn’t an adequate transition between locations meant we didn’t really communicate the idea as well as we could have."

giantbomb.com/profile/7force/blog/dark-souls-2-design-works-translation/109960/

That's pretty funny honestly, they totally botched what they were going for.

Seal clubbing stick > Everything

>hits you from a mile away

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why does everyone always assume the elevator goes straight up
there is little to no evidence that it does

Honestly I really enjoy the impossible spaces in DS2. Gives the world a sense of wonderment and fantasy that I can only feel was deliberate.
Even a lot of the early areas with the knights doesn't seem possible the way it's set up with random chunks floating in the water and the access tunnel being not nearly deep enough to go under water.
Was a nice mystical world.

How hard is this for you

The game gives an explanation as to why Izalith is ghigher than Ash Lake

The game doesnt say anything at all on how Iron Keep is above Earthen Peak Tower and the mpa doesn't show it either.

How can you not see that difference?

and big dumb trees holding up the big dumb world isn't?

I liked Faith the most, too bad it's mostly worthless in DaS3 NG, pretty ok in 1 and was really OP in 2 until they nerfed it into the ground.

Not him, but I really don't. Having an explanation for it won't change the way I feel about it at all

Because he's either A. A genuine retard or B. Just fishing for easy (you)'s.

That is such bullshit. They had already made a lava level and could only fit it in after the fucking elevator, it's as clear as day

We don't care about your feelings

Except for lava in original since it was provided by ceaseless discharge. Damn DS1 does really hold up.
On a non shitposting note, I think you are needlessly overthinking ancient mythological concept of a world tree used in jap game. Fantastical worlds only need to be internally consistent, they don't need to obey to laws of thermodynamics. We can agree that ash lake is consistent with its world building because it was at the series intro, while there is no support for floaty iron keep.

>the map in DS1 has a small flaw despite being great so that means it's worse than that absolute crap where you take an elevator up and you end in a submerged castle or where you walk 3 meters and you are supposed to be 100 km away from the previous area
DS2 cucks desperate as usual.

>direct parallels to Nordic mythology are the same as random elevator leading to lavatown
DaS2 tards everyone

man fuck you guys, you guys suck

just because the devs explain away a dumb thing they overlooked afterwards doesn't make it makes sense

> I think you are needlessly overthinking ancient mythological concept of a world tree used in jap game
i'm not mad about that. i'm just saying its inconsistent to bitch about ds2 elevator and not this

>Except for lava in original since it was provided by ceaseless discharg
then why does there are lava after you've killed him? he's not lost izalith, yet the place is filled full of lava

>just because the devs explain away a dumb thing they overlooked afterwards
It's in the fucking intro you turbonerd

>its in mythology so its okay

Is it ever explained in any game what causes souls to be absorbed by the player when shit dies? How does the process of giving souls to people work in exchange for goods?

There is literal teleportation in the first game, user.

>implying floating castles in the sky aren't baller as fuck
Sure its a little cliche but this is dark souls we're talking about

You won't believe this, but unlike Minecraft when you get rid of the source of something everything else does not disappear.

Floating castles are baller as fuck, but in the case of Dark Souls 2 it isn't a floating castle, but an entire floating landmass that is also submerged in lava.

Holy shit. What a shit game

So... FLAOT? Even better!

What did he mean by this

>DS2 kiddies have realized their game is completely indefensible so they've resorted to shitting on DS1

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Heat inertia of city spanning lake of lava might be so great it could take a moment to cool off, while freeflowing lava near ceaseless is less deep, but dont quote me on that.
Thing A exist in the intro
Thing B doesn't
Im less annoyed by creator referring to thing "A", than thing "B" because he already included in his premise that "A" does in fact exist and make sense in his world.

>the intro was made before the fucking game
lets say this was fucking true. nitos shithole is around the same level as lost izalith and that wasn't given an explanation i think

>not me but good point

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hbomberfag detected

but without a source of heat the lava should be cooling
by the time you get to izalith its been a few hours at least and it should be rock
shit dont make sense man, lava aint stay lava without hot

>all these people conveniently forgetting that the sense of scale here makes no sense
you drop like 200 feet down the tree and suddenly you're miles below the floor of blighttown, so far away its obscured by fog
but please tell me more about how iron keep doesn't make any sense

This, I only play souls games because the atmosphere and the world and creatures designs.
It's Gameplay is garbage.

No way dumbass, the lava is keeping itself hot because lava is hot. It touches the other lava, keeping it heated.

Is thwre something weird about the grave of giants being ont he same level as izalith?

it isn't, and you're an idiot.

time and space is convoluted in dark souls dumb zoomer

What can you see very clearly doesn't exist before taking that 100 foot elevator up to a world that suddenly changes the landscape where you were just standing not 30 minutes ago?

'Least Ash Lake has the decency to be a hidden kino area.

Because traversing pic related for the first time feels like an actual journey, riding a non-descript elevator for a few seconds does not.

Attached: gh.jpg (822x1530, 156K)

cool then there's absolutely nothing wrong with iron keep

why won't you ds1 fags extend that olive branch to ds2?

>it's okay if the map makes no physical sense as long as it feels like a journey

I'm will to call a bunch of ionized protons and helium very hot lava

There's plenty wrong with Iron Keep, the devs even admitted as such. Why are you fags so determined to defend something that even the people who implemented that thing won't defend it?

yeah as long as its kino

The basic idea is the same though, you go through what amount to a teleport, and appear in a new area.

Games without overworld almost always have broken sense of scale because there is no point in showing the player 100 kilometer trek you would need to take to actually cross the kingdom.
I can accept that going through a tunnel for minute or two gets you to Heide tower because only alternative is a cutscene or longass underground hallway. Going up the sky to end up in lake of lava is less believable even after taking scale into consideration.

you know actually i did not consider that the since the place is big cave it could be the heat is trapped down there like a giant oven
lava just sits around touching itself and gets the hot, would likely been a while before it gets hard
and this would also explain why the pool of ceaseless gets hard immediately since there's plenty of air access to that area
fucking ds1 gets more kino the more i shitpost about it

it would at least make it better, it still wouldn't make sense with location on the map but at least it would explain SOMETHING

you can't say that iron keep is fucked and also say that ash lake is a-ok without being a dumb fucking hypocrite, they both have the exact same inconsistent spacing problems

yeah because quelaag's mom burned a lot of the trees in her area so she couldn't get on top of them
but gravelord retard only did that a bit but hes the same level

Can everybody shut the fuck up about Iron Keep or Ash Lake and can somebody explain me why I am not able to climb over a pile of small rubble to get to Dranglaic Castle and why the Shrine of Winter is giving me commands?

Literally the only reason people bitch about souls 2 is because Miyazaki didn't put his name on it. It was "the B team" that is also why the even more absurd geometry of ds3 which was essentially a collection of bloodborne and reused ds1 assets was praised, because Miyazaki put his name on it. That's all. If he came out tomorrow and said he was actually the head of ds2 this whole time all of you idiots would make excuses to justify how ds2 is a masterpiece

>a-team good
>b-team bad
ya shoulda learned this years ago lad

I don't remember any of this being said anywhere

so its okay that a vast, lava filled expanse exists above a void in souls 1 but not in souls 2?

i n t r o

Yeah.....they don't say that at all

>can somebody explain me why I am not able to climb over a pile of small rubble to get to Dranglaic Castle
it's not your property

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because fromsoft is retarded

because video games

So how do wars work in Dark Souls? Do they just put bonfires in a field across from one another and then charge? Is the winner whoever destroys the other guys bonfire first?

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Izalith is in a cave/ supported by magical archtree/whatever actually is underground
Where is Iron Keep exactly?

Because DS2 was cobbled together at the last second

Ash Lake's isn't inconsistent when it not only has a basis in real world mythology but is also shown in the game's intro at the start

behind the windmill

look
the treeeeeeeeees
they're fucking gone dude
kellogs mom burned them
and gravelord crumbled them

Can bonfires even be destroyed? You can cast the biggest earth shaking lava spewing pyromancies at them and nothing happens

Nito only crumbled the dragons

Kill the firekeeper associated with the bonfire and they will cease to work.

That one can be justified because magic and it clearly wasn't a mistake. DSII has two considerable mistakes (that elevator and the areas that are on top of one another) that just seem to be a mistake.

do you have eyes?
he crumbles trees in the intro man

Why is b-team so cruel to delegate innocent windmill to holding whole castle on its back
This again proves how morally bankrupt ds2 is

All it says is that Izalith started a firestorm and Nito unleashed a miasma of death. It doesn't say anything about the trees being gone.

you can see the dragon's hand during the cutscene, it's not a tree

just realized the bell is almost directly below firelink just like the other bell being almost directly above

its inconsistent because you drop 10% of the distance that the game makes you believe you dropped
if you map how deep you go to get to ash lake and how deep you go to get into lost izalith you would see that lost izalith should actually be submerged in ash lake
I'm aware of the world tree thing, the fact that the world is held up by a tree isn't what I'm saying is strange

it doesnt say but thats what im seeing
and that's the only way i can think of of lost izalith being same level as ash lake

on what planet
that's part of a tree

but it does show the trees on fire and the roots crumbling to ash. the lake may be a ~*~time pocket~*~ from the age of ancients

>So how do wars work in Dark Souls?
My best guess.

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yeah fuck off, you're retarded

So a bunch of trees holding up the world is realistic to you retards but not a floating lava island?

being overwhelmed by intelligence and reason must be frustrating for brainlets like you

Scale being wonky isnt exclusive to DS.
In most rpgs you can probably see cities monsters and bandit camps without moving your character.
Thats why Heide being 50 meters away from Majula is less ridiculed than Iron Keepy

maybe in your world

t. brainlet that thinks Nito is crumbling a tree and not a dragon

Reminder bonfires literally aren't real, they're not physical objects. In ariendal frieda says "can you see it, the bonfire in this very room?"

And guess what: you only really realise that if you look at the map in dsviewer.
Meanwhile, in the game itself the way to Lost Izalith appears shorter due to its dome being constantly visible from Demon Ruins and the ways to it being relatively short and wide open.
The Great Hollow on the other hand is a convoluted mess of branches and mushrooms that makes you spend more time to traverse while having no real reference points, making the way down feel way longer than it actually is.

This. I love dark souls but these niggers are just try hards. You die in the game. I get it. Now shut the fuck up about it.

>Non-linear first half of the game allows you to rush straight to the areas of the game that contain the items for your build
true

>Power stance allowing for unique combinations of dual wielding and unlocking an alternative moveset for weapons
whomever refused to give order to implement this in DS3 is a retard

>rest
a few quality of life and PVP balance patches don't make up for retarded bosses and atrocious gameplay

DS1 >> DS2 >>> DS3. The games have a negative parabolic relation in quality.

Easy flaws to pinpoint in DS3: The shrine being separate from the first area was a horrible idea, and it being a huge grandiose temple was a terrible idea. Starting players on the ramparts of the endgame castle would be cool except you just teleport there and the stakes aren't established.

Then we immediately get a rehash of the flying monster grab and you are again split from the 'connected world' and taken to the undead village. Undead Village through the rest of the game is very strong, with some low points like Yohrm and his entire level being really small and insignificant. Whereas in DS1 there is a sense of when you go underground you are descending into various hells (ghostly, fiery, etc.), there's no sense of what it means to have these cultists and gargoyles and a big giant down in this massive cavern city. It is just cool for cool's sake without much thematic merit.

im sorry im right, for your sake i wish i wasn't

just replayed it for the first time in years and i forgot that the archers are the very first encounter you have with silver knights. that's kind of bullshit having to fight one on a 2 foot outcropping

It does indeed increase your item discovery, but only up to 10 humanity. Same with chaos weapons but I could be wrong, I think they both cap at 10 soft humanity.

You made me ctrl+f and search for "realistic"
Turns out only DaS2 fags used this word except one shitpost
No need to bait for (you)'s when everyone is giving them away for free

good thing you aren't

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pretty much

How sad that being underage seems to have hurt your brain.

>lava just sits around touching itself and gets the hot, would likely been a while before it gets hard

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I 100% understand that it's supposed to feel like a long descent down to ash lake and that's okay, I'm just saying that no one says anything about DaS1's logical inconsistencies but jumps all over 2's

static electricity in the air dumbass

thats not even what i was fucking talking about
im talking about the root you fucker

Not the same user, but wow fuck you for being right ive never noticed it

its ok to be shit at vidya user but don't blame the game

3 > 2 > 1

that's a dragon tail you blind nigger

Because 2 features those shitty transitions even in places where they don't make a lick of sense.

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if you call other people underage you're probably underage

>no u

Definitely underage. You know that you need to be at least 18 to post here, right?

Shut up underaged

I know it does, so does Dark Souls 3, but you only ever see people shitpost about 2 doing it, which is what I'm pointing out

i don't think me and you are going to see eye to eye on some things
probably because your fucking blind

I'll never understand why Yea Forums shills this game, must be the false sense of white heritage. WE WERE KNIGHTS IN FUCK

no u is on the same intellectual level as calling people underage when they have a different opinion than you

Keep in mind that people have different tolerance levels and even if both have the same issue to which i dont agree Iron Keep is still more jarring.

>dragon's hand next to the tail
>"it's a tree root clearly Nito is destroying the trees and there's none left"
meanwhile in the next part of the prologue

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I've spent more than 300 hours playing the Dark Souls games, and I've still never parried a single enemy.

Solaire himself pretty much spells out that reality is kind of fucked, which is why some transitions in DaS1 seem off or nonsensical. The problem is that DaS2 technically runs on the same logic but barely hides the transitions and makes them much more blatantly obvious. Logically it's not that big of a deal in-universe, if anything it's standard at that point, but from a player perspective running down a hall or scaling a ladder and causing the whole world to shift seems outright ridiculous.

>300 hours
Not a lot.

my point was that nito did not destroy all of the trees in his area. which is why it doesn't make sense
dude i can make an appointment for an optometrist if you are struggling making one

the patrician answer to das2's fuckery is that the bear is losing his mind and simply forgets the uninterested journey that intersects area transitions

reality is fucked?
more like the devs cant be fucked to make a consistent world

>more than

how do you know Ash Lake is in the EXACT same area the prologue was in? It's a massive expanse of trees and the area the player visits could very well be separate

I bet everyone agreed on that like 5 years ago but thirst for baiting is overwhelming to some.
For the curse of Yea Forums is the curse of (you)

At last, I truly see

Lmao fuck me the depths you faggots plumb

time is distorted you little shit

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People were pointing it out as soon as the game came out and Matthewmatosis bitching about it caused people to emphasize it for years to come, honestly.

The Dark Souls 2 elevator shit is the greatest stealth shitpost meme of all time on Yea Forums. The way you enter Drangleic in DaS2 is by jumping into the water portal, meaning it takes you to a different realm, possibly another time. And as we know, time is convoluted. My point:

From the starting scene of DaS2, we are explicitly told that the world is surreal, barely hanging on to its fabric, as also seen in Dark Souls 3 later on. So the elevator going up into a lava sky castle is something that makes sense when you take that into account.

The meme is that no matter how you explain it, the main argument is "NUH UH, DARK SOULS 2 BAD". And you're right, it's a pretty damn bad game comparing it to 1 and 2. I don't like 2 that much at all, but even I understand why the elevator is the way it is. It's all just a big shitposty joke that has lived for far too long now.

roots and based on how far you go down to reach lost izalith

reality isn't fucked, the "time is convoluted, heroes centuries old appear" line only reflects the game's summoning mechanic.

Well both 2 and 3 went with the idea that reality itself was distorting the longer everything was left to deteriorate. While in the first game it was a handwave for summoning, it retroactively also became a handwave for a larger part of the continuity.

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YIKES

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-----------> eat my fucking dick

>The Dark Souls 2 elevator shit is the greatest stealth shitpost meme of all time on Yea Forums. The way you enter Drangleic in DaS2 is by jumping into the water portal, meaning it takes you to a different realm, possibly another time. And as we know, time is convoluted.

It's purgatory, the name of the place you arrive in is called Thing Betwixt which translates to Things Between. It amazes me after all these years people still don't get that.

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Ash Lake literally holds the world up. Not just the game area.

>needing a map editor to notice an issue
>compared to taking two seconds to look at Earthen Peak's skybox

see

My laptop always dies when I reach this area, I think its all the humanity sprites floating around, not sure.

What's IN the Ash Lake tho? Besides Hydras of course.

Ash Lake is supposed to be lower but that would make Great Hollow bigger.

Leave it to the drooling Ds2 fags to be too retarded to comprehend simple lore.

Souls gameplay is utter garbage and only a brainlet would say it isn't.

The funny thing is I was LITERALLY banned from NeoGAF like 5 years ago for saying that Souls 1 gameplay isn't perfect.

it's so fucking terrible and amateurish, repetitive and slow. Also probably the worst archiery in vidya, no? I can't think of a game withw orse archery, not even Skyrim. Not even OoT on the N64.

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YIKES (2)

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covenant and unique tail weapon, lots of good titanite too

I mean, deep in the water.

>but Miyazaki-san this level layout makes no sense

>SHUT UP JUST ADD ANOTHER ELEVATOR

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>posting on neogaf
>ever
Fuck off, retard.

>compared to taking two seconds to look at Earthen Peak's skybox

Yes anyone with at least two brain cells to rub together would have noticed the lava glow in the distance

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i didn't need one to notice it at first faggot

Ash

>if they're built on a tree then everything must be branches
look into norse mythology pls user

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the elevator is accessed through the boss room which is at the highest point of Earthen Peak, not only can you not see where the boss area would be but the room with the elevator and the elevator itself are missing

ok bud

Not even norse mythology has layout as retarded as DS1, and they have Odin drinking dick juice to restore his MP

>DS2 apologists
Yikes

>the elevator is accessed through the boss room which is at the highest point of Earthen Peak

WRONG

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n-no shut up you go up from the top of the windmill

>elevator still can't be seen from the skybox and doesn't connect anywhere close to Earthen Peak
>even the drawing shown to explain the elevator spirals off diagonally to try and 'justify' the obvious gap
lowell

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how did i start the thread fag

>people still crying about earthen peak
video games are very serious business

?

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faraam set is better than the elite knight
fur > no fur

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The elevator is INSIDE the volcano.

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das3 babby

it was also alluded to in bloodborne before they even showed it with the bloated head things saying 'plip plop plip plop'
they could hear the water coming in

No, the devs fucked up and made the transition not make very much sense and have even admitted it in an interview. I've never seen someone grasp for straws as hard as you are.

>No

Yes, there is even lava glow in the elevator.

>the people who made the awful transition are wrong, clearly I know better as some random fuck on the internet

Ok user.

it's honestly baffling how this series became so popular, and it was with a game so consistently inferior to its predecessor in every way. i guess that's the power of a multiplatform release

back years ago, before i played any games in the souls series, i thought it was hilarious when people would complain about the games, because from my vantage point they were obviously just casuals who were getting frustrated with the difficulty. but then i played dark souls (a year ago now), which was after playing demon's souls (a year and a half ago). and the games simply aren't difficult. i breezed through both, along with das1's DLC, and only found one boss in demon's to be difficult. most of my deaths in both games were just from accidentally falling off something, like the log in the bed of chaos battle. and that happened uncommonly, one time was even from some glitchy collision detection that sent me flying

the combat is actually pretty safe. you can take a lot of damage if you get hit, but it's so easy to not get hit. you can literally just strafe around enemies and bosses, rarely needing to dodge or parry. and the game gives you tons of healing items on top of that. it's a step up from zelda i guess?

while i think demon's souls is overall a good game (obviously for reasons that have nothing to do with the combat), dark souls is not only rushed but poorly designed from the beginning, and even easier than demon's souls. this is made worse by dark souls poorly copying demon's souls and not actually improving on it in any way. in fact it makes the gameplay much worse by adding way more checkpoints, having smaller (and possibly more linear?) levels, and having more backtracking to pad the game out. and das1 is supposedly the best of the trilogy, according to the fanbase

so i'm just going to assume this series is greatly overrated and the rest of it is not worth my time, except demon's souls, which had some rich atmosphere and fairly unique, memorable bosses

who needs fur when under all that metal you're wearing a gambeson or Jack under your armor shits made out of wool or felt that's a ton of heat retension.

>and have even admitted it in an interview

Nice source you got there

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because its fucking stylish as fuck

"Tanimura: The idea is that the lake of magma is actually on the upper strata, like a caldera lake on a plateau. However, looking down from the top it was far too wide, that and the fact that there isn’t an adequate transition between locations meant we didn’t really communicate the idea as well as we could have."
giantbomb.com/profile/7force/blog/dark-souls-2-design-works-translation/109960/
What now

literally not a concrete statement in this entire thing just vague abstractions. Thanks for wasting my time.

Maybe if you read the thread you'd see it had been previously posted. But I'll humour you and your retardation.

Has the excerpt of the iron keep segment and a link to the whole interview. Enjoy!

what are you a furry?

the truth of earthen peak is that for whatever reason the volcano is missing from the skybox behind it. check the warp menu and you can see it

>"Tanimura: The idea is that the lake of magma is actually on the upper strata, like a caldera lake on a plateau. However, looking down from the top it was far too wide, that and the fact that there isn’t an adequate transition between locations meant we didn’t really communicate the idea as well as we could have."

He's just being polite. It was utterly obvious what they were trying to do, only brainlets (read: DS1 fanboys) would have failed to understand what was going on.

they should've just made 2 like demons souls to hand wave away all the shitty geometry

dead players and maybe more aquatic reptiles that aren't hydras, I'm positive ash lake turns into the deep since the deep is described as a peaceful place that's believed to form the bedrock of the world. so by DS3 it's flooded with goopy blue shit and bugs

ds2 intro specifically mentions this
the curse allows them to never die, but they will constantly need to feed on souls or else they will go hollow

coulda shoulda woulda.

they wanted to make a grand open world game for 2, but bamco chained them to DaS1's design philosophy, which they had trouble accomplishing because the first director had no idea what he was doing. (coupled with their idea of developing for PC first, which later meant they had to use up valuable development time downgrading and remaking assets when it couldnt run on the PS3, since Bamco ALSO likely forced them to downgrade from PS4 to PS3 so as to not compete with Bloodborne, a game they dont see a penny from)

>skinning animals to make your armor look baller as fuck means you're a furry

it does if you think you're a wolf (probably the most trite furrie)

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>people still use my image
neat

p sure this is ptde with dsfix

what the fuck dude

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Right is better

of course you'd think that since you're a faggot

is it even possible to go wrong with chain mail and closed helms

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what i can't reconcile with my initial instinct that left is cool is that he's apparently wearing slacks and leather boots

the final area in dark souls has 5 enemies total, and they're the easiest enemies in the game because they are the easiest enemies to parry. that should be enough right there to see that the devs were creatively spent by demon's souls and had almost nothing left in the tank. it's obvious

there is not a single trace of risk vs. reward in the game because you're never risking anything, there are checkpoints every few minutes and you have to die twice in a row in order to lose your souls. it's obvious they phoned it in from the start, reusing enemies but making them giant-sized to turn them into boss fights. or taking one boss and then modifying it slightly to make a new boss, and then doing that again for a third boss. most of the interesting areas in the game are just revisited concepts from demon's souls, so there's a continual "been here, done this" feeling when you play. there's never any interesting twists to it either, it's just less imaginative across the board.

e.g. they have the plague swamp and shanty town from demon's souls, but with fewer ambushes and smaller in scale, so it's less daunting and oppressive and just kind of irksome. that's not to say that there's nothing at all of merit in the entire game, but it seems like they made all of the unique areas not only optional, but obscure. like the painted world, or the tree branch level with all the frogs that curse you. makes absolutely no sense that they would hide their best levels, but that's dark souls. it's chock full of questionable-at-best design choices. can any of those design choices result in a good game? maybe one or two, but all of them mixed together and you have a recipe for shit

>thanks for wasting my time
that's what i said after playing dark souls. but that was hours and hours, not a minute or two. so i don't feel your pain, but maybe you feel a slight amount of mine. and yeah, i know they didn't make the game specifically for me, but i didn't type the post for you either

agreed but you can't deny that the map for das1 is a masterpiece

>the final area in dark souls has 5 enemies total, and they're the easiest enemies in the game because they are the easiest enemies to parry. that should be enough right there to see that the devs were creatively spent by demon's souls and had almost nothing left in the tank. it's obvious

The place becomes a nightmare on NG+ when gravelorded, you get a black knight with a red phantom black knight at the same time with every one. When you see that it is quite clear Fromsoft took the balance of gravelording into consideration.

plebopinion

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it's probably the thing most deserving of praise as it both literally and figuratively ties the whole game together. and i do like how you can bypass some of the easiest and most boring portions of the game on ng+ with the master key. so yeah, the world design is good, but except for a couple of levels (mainly painted world and the first half of sen's fortress), i think the individual level design is much worse than demon's

that's not very comforting because online games do drop off in popularity over time. but i guess it's good they had something in mind at least

The fags that complain about the map in DS2 always forget the opening cinematic. Drangleic isn't even in the same reality space as anything else. In said opening cinematic, to get to Drangleic, you fall through a vortex in a lake, by first passing through a dilapidated arch that isn't ruined on the other side of it, this vortex that is hidden is only accessible through the Dark Sign, and then you wake up in Things Betwixt, a place filled with broken Arch Trees between one reality and another. So who fucking cares if the map to that fucked place makes sense?

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right > left
the only time Faraam looks better is in DS2 itself since they fucked up the EK's model and the leg guards fly off whenever you sit at a bonfire

that being said the best set of DS2 is Drakeblood

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yea and the fertile pigment was manlus before thendarksoul and giving birth to
humanity

you know like 60% of DS3's bosses are gimmicky, right?

Yeah, the main difference is in the apparent effort by the devs. In ash lake if you look up and realize there's no way you scaled that far down, even though your immersion is broken you can say, "Well fair enough, I wouldn't want to spend 3 hours in a tree." and move on. With Iron Keep the only explanation you can think of after immersion is broken is that the devs fucked up/were lazy. What's worse is they just needed one or two items with descriptions like, "Fell from Iron Keep" or a lava waterfall somewhere and you would have the same thought of, "Fair enough, I don't want to sit in an elevator for 3 hours to get to to lava island".