Epic Poetry

Broroo

>A tier: Orlando Furioso
Lol.

>>>>>>>>>>>Ossian
If we are naming modern writings we can go on and on

Am I too low IQ to understand what this means or is this a joke from the Cantos? Like surely no one wants to read "wd you if you cd and 630 baskets of wheat for usura" right? I can understand reading everything else because of narratives and pretty poetry but the Cantos and Finnegan's wake are just too weird to me

>I am 1. Trilingual (Italian, Spanish and English)
>Quotes only English and two wop poems
Be a better liar.

S tier: Der Ring des Nibelungen.

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Its ancient mate

Ossian is an Modern invention from the 18th century.

I believe it. The Spanish haven't produced any poetry of literary value. That said, he is putting a lot of Greco-Roman poems (some of which are either fragments or not even epics) above great poets he can actually read

Clarel seems to be getting mentioned a lot recently. What's so great about it and what should I expect if I were to read it?

They skipped face pulls.

>I'm sure you haven't read The Cantos through, or even heard of "A".
I haven't heard of "A" can you help me? Searching for "A epic poem" doesn't work...

nm found it

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Proof? I have a 12th century poem of it

Have you carbon dated your manuscript?

No but the libraries have
Here is it
But its 13th not 12th sorry
electricscotland.com/history/literat/lamentof.htm

It's my understanding that MacPherson used real Gaelic poetry and stories but added a lot himself to unify them

>but added a lot himself to unify them
Ridiculous
The amount of effort that would need would be more than just making all of it
But I never mentioned him anyway

>The amount of effort that would need would be more than just making all of it
people have done crazier things

...and it's also essentially what Homer did afaik

>what Homer did
Homer never wrote it
It was an Athenian poet 300 years after homer lived

>Quotes only English and two wop poems
There are three italian poems there, non parlerei una lingua che la gente potrebbe non conoscere. Y no hay poemas que son epica que he leido. Me guesta Cesar Vallejo pero no tiene un epica.

Not that I'm very fluent anymore, but I'm biracial and was raised speaking these languages.
What listed there isn't an epic? All the greco roman ones are epics, with maybe the exception of the Metamorphoses but who's counting that as just narrative poetry when the scope is as wide as that. There's only one greco roman fragment there, and that's a short poem no one cares about but that I enjoyed reading. There aren't many other English or Italian epics to read that are worthwhile; this isn't a ranking of my favorite poems, just epics.

>Homer never wrote it
In the introduction to Fagles's translation Knox argues that Homer was the first Greek poet to use writing as a tool to create a unified poem as long as the Iliad, you can read it here if you like:
griersmusings.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/homer_the_iliad_penguin_classics_deluxe_edition-robert-fagles.pdf

Who is the Athenian poet to whom you refer?

>Who is the Athenian poet to whom you refer
No one knows its just that we know a single Athenian poet must have written the illiad and Odyssey in the 6th century bc

>The amount of effort that would need would be more than just making all of it
They poems aren't that long are they? Just smaller cycles. If you devoted your life to it, it wouldn't be that hard. But in either case Macpherson massively edited them, and I don't think many people believe Ossian even existed.

How do "we" know that? As far as I'm aware ""scholarly consensus"" (for as much as it's worth) is that the two poems were composed by two poets roughly a generation apart.

Embarrassing post.

the key difference is that homer did it in the 8th century BC while MacPherson shilled his shit composed in the 15th and 16th centuries as having originated from the third.

No one talks about Zukofsky online, which is a shame. His latin translation work is really beautiful (not real translations, more in the vein of Cathay from Pound). "A" is really beautiful, and far more approachable than other personal epics. His prose work is also top tier, and if you like Shakespeare, you should try "Bottom"

Post your own ranking then.

No.

>His latin translation work is really beautiful (not real translations, more in the vein of Cathay from Pound)
if he has any short translations you should try asking the OP of the poem of the day thread to post some sometime

I'm not sure where you read that, but nearly everyone agrees The Iliad and Odyssey were composed by the same person. Whether or not that person was "Homer" as we know it is more debated. Ill try finding something worthwhile for you to read.

>no kalevala

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Then shut up.
I cant find it online unfortunately, its notoriously hard to read Zukofsky because his son bends over backwards to stop it.
>Paul Zukofsky wrote in the letter that his chief concern was to derive income from his possession of copyrights in his father's work
> Paul Zukofsky, the owner of Zukofsky's copyrights, wrote an open letter telling graduate students and scholars that "In general, as a matter of principle, and for your own well-being, I urge you to not work on Louis Zukofsky, and prefer that you do not." [7] In the letter, Paul Zukofsky required that graduate students ask him for permission to quote from his father's works in their dissertations (an unusual practice), and made it clear that he might withhold such permission
From wikipedia. You can find them on New Directions paperback at least.

I forgot to list Beowulf and Kalevala, and there's some others too. Not sure where I would rank them though. Kalevala definitely above PL or Beowulf though.

>wants to make money from his father's work
>does everything he can to stymie interest in his father's work

>They poems aren't that long are they
Fingal alone has 3196 lines

That's not very long. I think the iliad is 15k lines, Odyssey another 11-12k. I think the entire cycle is about the length of both of those works but I'm not sure.

In total there are around 10,000 lines which is quite a lot for someone to make up who can't speak the language

Has anyone read The Tale of the Heike? I read some of it online from Penguin Classics, and it seems like a weird mix of verse and prose. Looks kino though.

So I don't know a whole lot about it, but wasn't it "translated" from Gaelic into English? Or was Macpherson writing all of it in Gaelic? If so wouldn't he know the language in either case?

It was originally written in Gaelic but the problem is the language has strange things in it such as the sun is called "son of the skies" despite the fact the sun is masculine in gender and other things

>Son of the skies
>despite the fact the sun is masculine
Adds up in my book? Did you mean it was feminine?

Yeah in the Gaelic language the sun is femine but the Gaelic ossian has it masculine
Its a very fatal error since we know the sun was feminine even in indo-european

Just MacPhersons ossian not the ballads

Missing Gilgamesh, which belongs in the S tier

the only "original" manuscripts he produced to back his shit up were shown to be his own back translations from english to gaelic.

Fair, its not very exhaustive. I could make a larger one, and detail why each belongs in each spot but I doubt anyone is interested in that.
Ah thanks.

>up were shown to be his own back translations from english to gaelic.
no they werent
they were shown to be gaelic which had apparently has anglicisms
no one ever proved he translated the english into gaelic, which he was incapable of doing

>they were shown to be gaelic which had apparently has anglicisms
Doesn't that kinda mean he retroactively wrote the "original" poems he claimed to have translated? Seems like a fraud