>This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
>1 Timothy 1:18-20 KJV
Did Paul kill false shepherds in his ministry?
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Bible Thread II
Elijah Rogers
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Joshua Campbell
is the book of enoch kino or gay?
James Morris
We need an Apostle Paul 'Yes' Chad to quote the Epistles, alongside that of Jesus for the Gospels which already exists.
Levi Jenkins
king jimbo version is outdated and should no longer b used. uses unreliable erasmus texts. it's been out of date for 200 years.
Parker Baker
There is no "outdated" Bible.
Mason Davis
There are outdated and inaccurate translations which use textual manuscripts with errors. king jimbo had a place in history but textual scholarship has shown it to be highly inaccurate in the current form.
it's also very dangerous that these inaccuracies could mislead people in the faith. the KJV should be suppressed, and I'm not joking.
Xavier Williams
so what bible do you recommend?
Cameron Powell
No, if a text was capable of edifying the church and leading people to salvation then it fulfilled its purpose and still does as long as anyone can understand it. I'm not a KJV Onlyist or any such thing (I use modern versions) but you should not be so quick to grovel at the feet of secular textual theories.
Jeremiah Kelly
And theories is what they are. Many are reasonable but ultimately the endeavor of textual criticism is speculative. Even if your supposition is reasonable it could still be wrong because there is no way to ever prove it.
Jace Thomas
The KJV Compromise:
One formal, standardised translation for church service, and one for private use and evangelisation in plain, contemporary English.
Noah Carter
I recc. a NT translated from NT27 or UBS5 and an OT translated from the RH LXX.
I agree that any text can be useful per se but textual criticism is not speculative, it was used by the Fathers to assemble the canon. We continue their lineage of Jerome today with modern scholarship and document findings. The old, outdated must be discarded. The KJV no longer serves a purpose.
already existed, it's called the Revised Common Lectionary translations
Aiden Adams
>I agree that any text can be useful per se but textual criticism is not speculative, it was used by the Fathers to assemble the canon. We continue their lineage of Jerome today with modern scholarship and document findings.
No you most certainly do not. Modern textual criticism is based on the premise that the texts of the Bible are to be treated as any other book. There is nothing divine to be considered. It is just like any completely human work and subject to the same human forces and there is nothing else to factor into it. The endeavor is fundamentally secular and has no religious or spiritual capacity. Much ado is made over things like the mental or psychological states of scribes, why they might have done this or that, all of which is utter speculation and can never be proven in any way. Even if you think your speculation makes sense, history does not necessarily follow the most sensible course. You could make the best possible theory, based upon the available evidence, but still be wrong because the evidence that would disprove you has been lost to time. It is not provable.
Benjamin Nelson
The secular and the religious, when teleologically aimed the same realization, cannot conflict as the stem from the same source.
We use technology to build the kingdom. We use modern tools, given to use by our God created wisdom, to refine the texts, as the Fathers did. Inspiration did not end with the Council of Nicea, far from it.
Christians believe in the continuing action of the Holy Spirit, and God guides our textual criticism. We have a divine mandate to take the texts ever closer to the truth.
Samuel Bennett
>Christians believe in the continuing action of the Holy Spirit, and God guides our textual criticism.
Where do you derive that God guides the suppositions of textual scholars? There is no reason to believe such a thing. You also did not address any of my arguments about mental states, lack of evidence, etc. And of course, because you can't. Where do you derive that God has necessarily provided us the requisite evidence for our modern methodology to accurately ascertain the truth of the matter? Again, this is made up ad hoc.
Joseph Gutierrez
Where do you believe God gave the Fathers the correct textual methodology to assemble the canon and compile texts? Did God guide their suppositions? If so, when did he stop doing so, and why, and where do you have evidence from God for that?
We have evidence from Jesus that "he will be with us always". We pray for the Kingdom to come on earth. With divine inspiration, and modern tools, we are building the refinement of the Kingdom on earth as Jesus commanded us, day by day. That includes getting the texts as accurate as possible using the same divine inspiration as that which assembled the Bible in the early Church.
Benjamin Foster
The canon is a set thing, an ontological category. It isn't an amorphous entity that changes every few years based on archeological evidence.
Xavier Long
You do realize the canon was assembled gradually over 500 years using textual criticism methods and archeology, right? It wasn't even fully established after Jerome's time, and he discarded 1000s texts in Old Latin as inaccurate and not trustworthy in creating the Vulgate. It wasn't until the 600s that the Canon was finalized in the Christian world.
Textual refinement is an ongoing process, the same way it took 600 years to finalize the canon.
Nolan Russell
Is the canon divinely inspired? Is it θεόπνευστος, God-breathed (2 Tim. 3:16)? If so then it exists in a separate ontological category from every other text in the world. It was set the moment it was completed, regardless of human recognition.
Landon Clark
btw there were vast textual inconsistencies between the Greek, Latin, Ge'ez, Coptic, Arabic, Gothic and Aramaic translations even after that for 1000s of years.
There's never been *one set text* for each book. In fact, in the past, it's likely 2 people 1000 miles apart in different languages would read vastly different versions of the Gospel, if they could read at all. That's assuming no scribal errors.
Modern textual criticism corrects these errors today, for the glory of God. Anyone who is against this is very dangerous and not to be trusted.
Josiah Mitchell
Actually I didn't express this clearly. What I mean is that the texts of the canon are θεόπνευστος. The set of texts that are θεόπνευστος is the canon. Being θεόπνευστος is the ontological category.
Alexander Edwards
How was the canon established? Did God or did God not use human authors and textual methods to assemble it? The same way God was incarnated, the same way he uses human methods to establish and refine the texts.
When was the canon completed? When did divine guidance with regard to God's word stop? Give an exact date and cite a source that God's guided refining of the text stopped on that exact date.
Alexander Sanders
What is this refinement of the text that you refer to? Will it be completed? Will you at some point arrive at the true text? When do you expect that might be?
Josiah Adams
Scholasticism was a mistake.
Levi Anderson
> be upstanding roman horse seller
> tether colt to post
> return to see some disheveled jew untying it
> "what the fuck are you doing"
> retarded jew mutters something about "the lord"
> approach him but get beaten up by retard jew's friends
> tfw
Caleb Torres
>roman
You done goofed.
Gabriel Edwards
By the way I'm not trying to antagonize anyone's faith or anything, but I think that one should not put too much trust into this sort of methodology, that's all. Especially when it leads you to start saying that older versions should be suppressed and other such nonsense.
Luis Lee
>Morning in Europe - Americans asleep
>Yea Forums is 10x more active
Why?
Easton Lopez
Im interested to know which Bible/s you use daily?
For me it’s the KJV Bible to take on commutes and The Didache Bible for study and to read the books that aren’t in the KJV.
Jonathan Johnson
Do non-protestant denominations discourage personal interpretations of the Bible? It doesn't sit right with me that I'm not to interpret the word of God for myself.
Ryder Flores
Define interpretation
Logan Miller
The process of extracting meaning from a source
Luke Parker
How can I honor my Mom if our relationship is strained? I don’t know where to start because their isn’t really that honorable.
James Diaz
*Their isn’t anything that honorable.
Caleb Myers
NTA but there's a difference between older and less accurate. Often the displacement of the "old" translation is because the new translation is being translated from an even older text that was not available when the previous translation was made. I haven't followed the debate to the letter but that's why *some* newer translations are better than the KJV.
Bentley Rodriguez
People can make some wacky interpretations based on motivated reasoning. It's good to have a safeguard against that.
Jace Perry
Can anyone itt recommend me a good book about Tabernacle? I'm writing a term paper on it rn, any suggestion would be helpful
Landon Wright
Surprisingly both
Brayden Evans
For me, it's the Didache Bible and my 1914 printing of the Douay.
Levi Torres
>I'm not a KJV Onlyist or any such thing (I use modern versions)
Michael Jenkins
Nice. Any pictures of the DR?
I’d like to get a Douay to take with me but the pocket is too small and the regular is a bit big to travel with.
This KJV is my favourite Bible, it’s in the sweet spot between large and small and the money has gone into making the print amazing instead of flashy. You just get the Bible no images or references which I like a lot.
Dylan Brown
For me it's simple KJV reference bible and the commentary from the ESV Study Bible.
Jaxson Anderson
A paperback Douay Rheims. Sometimes I use my Weber-Gryson Vulgata when I want to feel like a big brain
Parker Lewis
Thoughts on this?
Sebastian Perry
Maybe the older cohorts were taught to never question the Pope, or lived during the time of the best Pope in living memory?
It is pretty strange.
Jaxon Ramirez
Where my fellow Presbyterians at?
Brayden Smith
I am not a Presbyterian. I do not believe in Calvinism.
Benjamin Fisher
Blessed.
Completely irrelevant to Christians. The "Holy Papa", that is. Call no man "Father".
James Brooks
My dad and I have been watching Jay Dyer videos. We are not Orthodox but we like the videos and find them interesting.
Zachary Gray
>We are not Orthodox
Praise the Lord, you are not Satanic Babylonian pagans.
>My dad and I have been watching Jay Dyer videos. we like the videos and find them interesting.
Blessed to be doing things with your Dad, and good that you find the content to be interesting. Unfortunately it takes 2 hours of listening to Jay Dyer to get 2 minutes of actual point, but he does indeed speak on interesting topics from time to time. Everyone has different informational needs though. I found him some time back while looking up discussions regarding Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon.
Jordan Sanchez
>Praise the Lord, you are not Satanic Babylonian pagans.
Is this satire?
William Murphy
So did the serpent have relations with Eve?
Connor Rogers
>Nice. Any pictures of the DR?
1/3
Owen Mitchell
2/3
Nathaniel Ramirez
(For those who may not know, Theotokos is "Mary")
Crossing the waters as on dry land,
In that way escaping
From the evils of Egypt’s land,
The Israelites cried out exclaiming:
To our Redeemer and God, now let us sing.
Most Holy Theotokos save us.
With many temptations surrounding me,
Searching for salvation,
I have hastened unto you;
O Mother of the Word, and ever-Virgin,
From all distresses and dangers deliver me.
Most Holy Theotokos save us.
I ask you, O Virgin,
From the dangers deliver me;
For now I run to you for refuge,
With both my soul and my reasoning.
Now and forever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.
Diseased is the body and the soul;
Deem me truly worthy
Of divine guidance and your care;
A protection and shelter,
I have with you in my life,
You, the Theotokos and the Virgin,
Pilot me towards your port;
For you are the cause,
The cause of that which is good,
Support of the faithful,
The only all-praised One.
Most Holy Theotokos save us.
I entreat you, O Virgin,
Disperse the storm of my grief,
and the soul’s most inward confusion,
Scatter it far from me;
With most serious ailments,
And with the passions so dark,
I am being tested, O Virgin,
Come and bring help to me;
For I have known of you,
That you are without fail
the endless treasure of cures,
Only all-blameless One.
Deliver us,
All of your servants, from danger, O Theotokos;
After God, we all flee to you,
For shelter and covering,
As an unshakable wall and our protection.
Turn to me,
In your good favor, all praise-worthy Theotokos;
Look upon my grave illnesses,
Which painfully sting my flesh
and heal the cause of my soul’s pain and suffering.
Dylan Rivera
3/3
Sometimes a page's text is printed a bit crooked (on less than 10 pages and all in the early OT), but thankfully I never lose any text. See pg. 45 here; page 46 on the other side is the same. I think the occasional oddities/imperfections like this give an old volume charm because it feels less "manufactured" in an assembly line sense.
Adrian Myers
>(For those who may not know, Theotokos is "Mary")
But all Christians know this, otherwise they wouldn't be Christians. For those who may not know--apparently (You)--Christ is the "Messiah."
Dominic Sanchez
Still don't see any Satan or Babylon. Meds.
Josiah Russell
>To our Redeemer and God, now let us sing.
>Most Holy Theotokos save us.
As they say, the devil is in the details.
Leo Reyes
>I can't see any Ishtar in that crypto devotional to her
Elijah Richardson
>Source: It was revealed to me in a dream.
Josiah Myers
The Judaic consumption of the American spirit is more advanced and has destroyed many of my countrymen's ability to think critically or to seek out conversation.
