Are all self help books useless?

You need to apply the lessons learned, not just consume it.

Self help books are pretty great, as they provide ideas on how to progress. Unfortunately they tend to present a shallow view of life and the difficulties of applying their lessons. The only one who can learn that is you by repeated trail and error. Simple knowledge will not change you.
Anyhow read Sam Harris waking up and stop being a slave to your mind.

>Carnegie
>Peterson
user I'm sorry but it is apparent that you have actually NOT read that many self-help books. If you had, then you would have given us a list, instead of naming two guys. It is also evident that you have not actually read Peterson. You have only watched a few Youtube videos summarizing his points.

Self-help books are not useless because they are designed to be read more frequently than other texts. The Tao Te Ching is, in essence, a self-help book, but it takes perhaps 30 seconds to read and understand most of its points.

Fucking loser mindset. I went from having 0 social skills to having a GF and a close group of friends.

Yeah, you figured it out. There is plenty of good advice out there but it is unlikely to exist in a useful manner in any self-help book you pick up. Also, most good models and approaches in life can't be effectively put into words. It's these unspoken ideas that are the most important.

No, they're all the same, and they're all shit, and the fact that they keep churning out the same five or six stale old ideas in new packaging, and that people keep buying it - and further, that self-help fags usually buy new self-help books over and over again - is all very strong indications that you are correct, the shit does not work.

Do cardio, lift weights, eat healthy, get enough sleep, interact with friends, practice things you want to be good at.
That's literally it. Very simple. After that it's basically just youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0

>fuck books, all the answers are in my youtube friend simulators!
this board is really turning to shit

>that dfw expression
A semi-normie pretending to be an autist that is pretending to understand human emotion.
What level of sincerity is this?

Indeed it has, you are completely functionally illiterate and a massive retard - add the casual belligerence of a born loser with a chip on his shoulder, and voila, you belong on /r9k/ but shit up this place because you would prefer to fancy yourself an intellectual.
I posted the Shia video because it perfectly illustrates the absurdity and attendant frustration around the people who mindlessly consume self-help book after self-help book with the same overall message.

Yes, they are.

Good to be you, but I support user from above

Holy shit you're sensitive about your friend simulators. Go outside, faggot.

If one would like to improve his own character there is merely one thing that one needs to do.
Break your habits. Your personality is nothing but habits and learned behavior. You can always unlearn what you have learned and form new habits. It's not even difficult, if you think about it it's rather simple actually, but you are just afraid to do so as your peers will judge this new character of yours as not being "you". But after all, it is not you, you aren that old imbecille who couldn't take care of the most mundane tasks. Your new character goes out of the way to make sure his life is impeccable, he does not merely cook his food, he crafts culinary masterpieces and enjoys all the subtle flavors, big and small, in the dish. He doesn't binge or eat snacks because of a so called "craving", meaningless snacking is beneath him. Without impulse control you are after all just an animal, but we are not, are we? Of course not, we are sophisticated human beings but most "people" in our society seems to have forgotten that and act rather animalistic. They get angry when they are confronted, they eat because they are bored, they do the minimum required to survive and spend most of their time watching stupid "entertainment" just to go to work the next day. Are they really that much different from animals if you really think about it? But me? I do not do any of that, I value myself, my mind and my body. I take care of me, my family and my home. I don't overspend, I budget my money and live frugally, there is no need to buy expensive and useless material things to impress "animals". I rather live my quiet and sophisticated life free of these rabid humans who tear themselves apart mentally with their disgusting behavior. Would your new character associate with such low scum that doesn't hold itself accountable for their atrocious and sloppy behavior? Probably not, get rid of your lower class friends and climb the social ladder and get out of that monkey cage, money is not what you need to climb the social ladder, it is merely class.

Take your time, think about who you want to be, what that person does, how he thinks and how he dresses. Think about all the little details about him that you would like him to have. Does he wear scarves? Where does he live? How is his home decorated? What is his goals? What does he do to achieve them? Is he a friendly person who gives a helping hand to the smaller man? Write it all down and add new things or remove old things. Craft your new persona to perfection and then slowly but surely take it on as your own. Read what you've written down about your new persona every week until that person is finally you.

Bon voyage, my friend.

No, not really.

Actually that particular book you posted allowed me to go from studying all the time in my room in college to having friends and finally getting laid. I think it's the only one I have read that did anything for me and I still practice like 5-6 points in it regularly by habit, though I think acting like that 24/7 would leave anyone feeling hollow ultimately

I think what it did is it convinced you to go outside

I feel like trying only one action in one setting isn't conducive to actual development. I'll be honest that if I'm at a bar with some friends, the last thing I'd want to do is strike up small talk with a random stranger. Wouldn't it be better to try to identify and exploit more organic situations for day-to-day social interaction? If you can't read the room, 'charisma' can backfire.

This, and bars are pretty fucking pointless.

Yeah I feel like reading philosophy is just so much better. Some of those self help books aren't bad but if you're going to read something pick something very specific to a topic. Don't read broad shit imo.

Ah yes philosophy. That's never broad.

That's not my point and the reasons I would prefer philosophy don't have to do with that. I like philosophy because it gets you to think critically more often and improves your ability to do that. Really helps in my experience, and also keeps you busy learning. Self help I just think it best when you read specific things like the best way to do x or y.

The books that help yourself will never be found in the "self-help" isle, those books only help people who cannot help themselves

>friend simulators
I genuinely have no idea what this even means.

It's just another boardshitter, don't respond to them

It means zoomers watch these videos of 'personalities' hot air just to fill the void of relationships. It is to real friendships what porn is to sex.
this is not your safe space, faggot. If you want to have people validate you for posting youtube videos, there are lots of subreddits for you.

This is my general experience as a disability sponger. I got the majority of my valuable changes in life through listening to behavioral psychologists then putting it into action.

Like Atomic Habits by James Clear is nice and all, but for me that translated into a year of doing a duolingo lesson a day then quitting totally.

Self-help is reassurance that you can grow. Even the most sensible minded self-help doesn't have you pay in effort, which is what is really needed for change. And even then, most changes I've been through were just roundabouts that reminded me that I didn't know what I wanted and I did half measures.

Took a CCNA class funded through WIOA, managed to pass CCNA through memory palace techniques and then realized I couldn't handle the job even if I did pass.

There's just this H U E G wall that consists of your own personal beliefs and interactions with the world that people barely understand. I've had some success applying Marisa Peer's rules of the mind over the years but I expect no one else here to be open minded enough to even consider them valuable.

I suggest reading the first part of The Power of Surprise, a book by a neuroscientist who sums up just how automatic and power our formation of beliefs are.

tl;dr- self-help is at best reassurance, while knowledgeable action leads to building courage

>I've read a decent amount of these, including the ones you see recommended all the time like Carnegie, Peterson, etc. Maybe I get a temporary boost but it always resets.
Cause you're reading Yea Forums trash. No other way to cut it op. I started getting into self help in college when I had severe anxiety and depression but did not have health insurance so I could not see a doctor. So I went to the library and got some books, which started a multi-year journey through the genre and massive improvement in my life. But I wasn't reading trash from barely qualified obviously political figures like Peterson. Just because you're watching Disney channel does not mean that the Sopranos, Mad Men, or Game of Thrones does not exist, you're just being stupid about your choice of consumption.
>Are there any self help books that aren't like this.
Yes, they largely work functionally more as guides with exercises.
>Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy
>Emotional First Aid
>How to Be Yourself: Quiet Your Inner Critic and Rise Above Social Anxiety
>Intimate Connections
>The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck (Don't really like this one, but if you're thinking HTWF is the peak of the genre, you should probably read this)
>The Erotic Mind
>The Charisma Myth
>The Lifechanging Magic of Tidying Up (and Spark Joy)
>How to Not Die(t) (Michael Greger in general for nutrition/diet)
>Nonviolent Communication
>Flow (not technically self help)
>This Naked Mind (for alcoholism)
>You Are A Badass (worst book in this list just heads up)
>Eckhart Tolle for spiritual development
>What Color is Your Parachute
>The Defining Decade

Attached: 1632749699384.jpg (500x375, 52.71K)

If you could pick 2 books, which would you recommend of these?

Assuming OP is a depressed guy who just needs overall general help:
>Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy
>Emotional First Aid
the answer to this question though is highly dependent on what the "self" in self-help needs.

This is an interesting take. I definitely know what you mean about charisma not being learnable academically. I think it is learnable, though. I recently got a job in sales and have noticed that I am getting better and better responses from people.

Part of the reason I'm getting better responses is I just got better at my job, so people are impressed with my knowledge, but I have also gotten better at small talk and joking around. This is probably also due to the fact that I can judge someone's personality and pick up a "vibe" from them quicker, and adjust accordingly.

I think mostly this improvement is limited to the context of my job, but I think some has transferred over. I haven't tried anything like PUA so I can't comment on that, but if I were to start now I definitely think I would do better than if I had started before this job.

You're right, but your advice pretty much confirms my point. One pointed "Just implement some good habits, faggot" is worth more than a hundred pages on the same subject.

I also hated on HTWFAIP a little bit more than I needed to just for the meme. In general I think its solid but a lot of the stuff in there doesn't really fit my personality.

I largely agree but I started this thread to see if anyone had books that refute this. It would be super cool if someone could prove me wrong :)

You're right and you're wrong. Those two are the books that have stuck with me the most. There are lots of others I have read, most at least tangentially related to PUA. Stuff like Robert Green, Ovid's Ars Amatoria, stuff having to do with meditation, etc. I mostly put the thing I thought people would recognize in OP.

I actually have read the Tao Te Ching quite frequently, I'm probably due for another reread.

Lastly
> Tries to flex that he's read WAY more self help books...
Am I supposed to be impressed that your life is more of a dumpster fire than mine?

Yeah you're right man. This guy is something else.
> Literally so small brained that I side with self helps books because LE EBIC BASED BOOKS are better then the hecking EBIL zoomer internets

This kinda reads like a pasta but I see what you're getting at. It's interesting because I have actually seen what my personality is like when sorta removed down to the core.

I won't get into the specifics but I have gone through events that have levelled me, and sorta turned my into a shell; what was interesting was I got to watch firsthand how my personality was rebuilt from the ground up in the same shape. It was the same shape because the forces around me remained the same. I always had the sense that if I had a little more prescience in those moments, it would have been a perfect opportunity to redefine myself. I wouldn't necessarily seek out something like that again just for that opportunity, but it is interesting to me.

Anyways, I largely agree with your message but I do find the way that you word it strange.

I haven't actually read it in years, this might have actually convinced me to reread it.

I'm SO glad you brought up Duolingo, it's the perfect example: something that makes you FEEL like you're learning a language without actually learning it.

It sounds like you fond something that worked for you, so I'm happy for you there. Would you say some of the stuff you read later like Peer was instrumental towards you actually improving?

Since this is the last bit in this thread that I have yet to reply to, I'll append some of my general thoughts here as well, but for reference I would say I'm not your typical depressive, though I have a lot of the classic behaviors like oversleeping and lack of motivation. I start a lot of things and give up instantly, etc.

Really, more than looking for a book to help me specifically (though I wouldn't complain...), I was actually interested in if any of these were useful to begin with. Do you have an anecdote about how some tidbit from one of the books you mentioned helped you?

There are a couple minor things I disagree with you on but my main gripe with all these things is that all self help recommendations have seen were along the lines of
> My life was going nowhere fast, I didn't know what to do
> Then I read this book- things clicked like never before, and I turned everything around in a month
> the book is titled How To Get Ahead by Not Slamming Your Head into Giant Rocks
> So it turns out I was repeatedly slamming my head into giant rocks and that's what was holding me back
> Anyways you should check it out

Also if anyone wants me to basedjack another book lmk it's kinda fun

>Really, more than looking for a book to help me specifically (though I wouldn't complain...), I was actually interested in if any of these were useful to begin with. Do you have an anecdote about how some tidbit from one of the books you mentioned helped you?
I read Feeling Good because as already mentioned I had severe anxiety and needed professional help. It didn't help me much with anxiety but improved my life by being a beginner's guide to cognitive behavioral therapy, something that helped me through the years following reading it. Additionally it cleared up a lot of essentially "depressed" behaviors for me that were holding me back, and I still use several of the skills I learned from this book today. Even more specifically it helped me with getting through procrastination and the "weekend blues" as it's called in the book. Didn't help me much with anxiety unfortunately but massively improved my life, which is saying a lot since it did not help the main thing I needed help with at the time. That's how highly I regard it. If you're depressed definitely give it a go, you likely can find it at your library.

>Emotional First Aid
I don't remember why I initially read it, but I initially found the loneliness chapter helpful. Then in the spring following that I went through: a breakup of a major relationship, moving to a new state due to said ex getting violent, and my father having a heart attack. Then in the summer I was in a car accident. There's a section on trauma in the book and I 100% know that I would have been pretty fucked up for the rest of the year had I not had that as reference. I used it a lot and it really helped me deal with all of it. Significantly reduced the time it would have taken to process all that.

I don't really know what to tell you for the last point, it's not super clear what you're saying with it.

Essentially if someone is going around banging his head on rocks all the time, all he needs is to be told to stop banging his head on giant rocks and his life will massively improve, but that doesn't make "don't bang your head on giant rocks" useful advice for most people.

I will check out the first book you mentioned since that seems to be in line with I actually want, and I'll report if I find any info I consider useful

just read the four agreements, its quick and honest, try to adopt the lifestyle and reap its rewards. I like how the book isnt over intellectualized like some recs ive seen here

Anons all of us have unique problems in our lives but we all know things or solutions we can do to make it better. They may not be instant, they may not even completely solve them but there are almost always things we can do to alleviate them. And just doing them will allow you to say, I did everything I could. It is just a matter of taking action.

It is about getting to the core principals of the text, taking time to figure out how to apply it your life, then live ignoring the rest.

All the filler of the bools is to give context and fleshout/underztand the principals

Attached: 1648322048196.png (2513x1405, 760.18K)

>You can't simply develop a strong work ethic through desire, inspiration and habit
Wtf? That is literally it. You need to force yourself to be habitual in your actions. Keep thinking about how you want tl be and get better. Thinking about it will lead your actions to be influenced to make those things happen because you will take that desired outcome into account.

Goddamn, dont lead him down the wrong path. What you said is bascially some people are born better. Work nigger

Attached: tv-6.png (650x443, 238.54K)

>Without impulse control you are after all just an animal, but we are not, are we? Of course not, we are sophisticated human beings
I'M NOT A SOPHISTICATED HUMAN BEING
I'M A FUCKING ANIMAL
I WANT SOMETHING?
I GO OUT AND GET SOMETHING
I'M NOT WASTING MY TIME THINKING
I'M FUCKING DOING
FUCK YOUR LIMP WRISTED "SOPHISTICATION"
I DO WHAT I WANT WHEN I WANT

Attached: 1646068807649.jpg (973x1005, 140.23K)

Self-improvement is cucked. You are sacrificing your personality traits just to be more "successful" in society. Self-help is just marketed to try to profit off of what normies think are the lowest rung of the ladder and try to force such people to be "productive" in our soulless society.

Here's my advice for you, user: unironically, be yourself.
Accept yourself for who you are. Accept your flaws. And don't give a damn about not being successful or not fitting in or whatever. Do not bend to society's expectations. Be an individual, be a radical. Don't give a shit if you're lazy or autistic or whatever - that's who you are. Fuck those who try to take it from you. You are not at fault for who you are.

I've read How to Meet Friends and Influence People & 12 Rules for Life. Both were a mixture of common sense or bad advice. In reality people just you very indirectly based upon perceived similarity and cemented social status. And most of it is out of your control, beyond taking measures to be physically healthy or manage your finances well. I think a lot of anons are fuckups that are trying to socialize with shitty people at work or college who are totally different types of people and are being eaten alive. If you go to a college for shitty mediocre people who have a mixture of stupidity and a lack of ambition you are placing yourself into a social environment which revolves around that preselected template person. Or if you work a shitty working class job, lo and behold your peers are dumb and shitty who fill their lives with distractions. And social mobility may not be viable for many anons any longer. It is clearly a myth that having qualities that are "le good" makes everybody like and admire you so you should just improoov yourself. The only exceptions are sports and good looks. But life is mostly about being a good fit for where you're at, there is not a single type of person and crowds love to indiscriminately prey upon difference

i'm sorry you feel this way user, but this was a great post, based and Steely Dan pilled

based improoovor

The ex-junkie savant from the Chili Peppers said it best
>I'd rather read a manual on how to use a synthesizer than a book on Buddhism
Self help books are probably all useless. And it's your fault.
You haven't figured out what part of your self you need help with.
You want to learn to play guitar? You don't grab some shit from Jordan Peterson. You grab a fucking chord-book. You want to get better at maths? Grab a textbook with mathematical problems.
Your grabbing self help books probably because you're afraid to acknowledge just what it is that is wrong with you? Isolate 4 areas of improvement. Find 4 habits or projects that you could instill that would help. Then read at least one book relevant to each of those areas.
There, you'll never read a self-help book again because you'll be too busy getting shit done!

Attached: jf-hair.jpg (600x707, 70.32K)