>Hell yeah, a writer is what I am going to be....
>"Active Voice?"
>Oh yeah, I know that one. I jus....
>"Asyndeton?"
>Shit, what the fuck is that? ...
>"Chiasmus, Conjunctive Adverbs , Parataxis, Superlative Form?"
>S-stop it, I don't know what all of these things are.
>"Syndetons, Split Infinitives, Compound Predicates, Polysyndeton..."
>Noooooooo.
Is there a list or guide that contains a lot of useful and relevant word techniques such as those listed? I'm not native, and have never heard of any of them.
I don't get it, you wish to be a writer, but this other person is forcing you to be a linguist?
People that learn technique to that level are just coping for their lack of talent
>is a young white male
>thinks anyone cares about his artistic expression
It’s 2022 sweetie, just focus on providing material security for me once I’m 32 and ready to settle down, ok?
ty added these to my wikipedia reading list
desu people are using those techniques without knowing what they are, just like they use language. You don't need to know what an adverb is to use it. If anything, knowing how those are named simply adds strcture to your understanding.
Read this. It's not definitive or scholarly, but it's a good introduction and easy to read.
Roastie, Roastie
Can't you see
Young Asian women
Are all around meee
Thanks user, already on it.
I do all of this intuitively and have never heard half of these words. The virgin analysis fan vs the chad intuitionist.
Why are americans perpetually angry against this imaginary young white male writer living rent free in their head?
>you must learn whatever literary critics are overpaid to do because they got a useless degree
I'm good g
pretty much
it usually happens to people who got way too much praise for being booksmart during their formative years, so now as adults they can't even properly use the cognitive processes that were not used in learning facts for a test
I went through a phase of obsessing about this kind of stuff, worrying I was breaking all sorts of rules. It is both interesting and instructive to read about these concepts, but I don't think they are worth obsessing over. You will get to the point where you cannot write, or if you still about to then your sentences will be horribly stilted and contrived.
There are two cures for this. The first is to put a page of your favourite author's greatest work into Grammarly. I suggest Proust, Joyce, Faulkner, Burroughs, or someone who is equally unusual in their style. When you see how many "mistakes" Grammarly says they have made, you will realise you were barking up the wrong tree.
The second is to read Hubert Selby's Last Exit to Brooklyn. No book is so pure in the brilliance of its writing, without being constrained by any rules.
>lol, this faggot ARTIST isn't familiar with the TERMINOLOGY I invented to STUDY his work SCHOLARLY in my PART TIME position as an UNTENURED ADJUNCT at COMMUNITY COLLEGE! It's almost as if he thinks his CREATIVITY somehow allows him to get away with NOT PROVIDING THE CORRECT ANSWER for [INSERT ROASTIE ACADEMIC FATHER FIGURE THAT COMPENSATES FOR THE REAL FATHER THAT ABANDONED HER HERE]
Spot on.
I know the meaning of some of these but it didn't even come up studying English Literature in postgrad and sometimes my supervisor would slap me on the hand for focusing too much on literary terms I siphoned from Baldick's literary dictionary.
cope
i've never read a single shred of hemingway in my life.
Imagine not being able to just feel how words string together.
this, the texture of my writing would become disjointed if i paused to consider whether i had used this or that technique. i'm all for critical analysis of grammatical structure, but it definitely feels like one is missing the point of reading entirely.
>develop a voice!
>now kill it and replace it with MY voice!
Imagine sperging about latin poetic techniques in the English language. Most of these things are useless in English because it lacks declensions and a loose word order. Chiasmus is retarded. Same for hyperbaton. Polyptotons are okayish in English. Other traditional stylistic techniques are already in widespread use - like the different -syndetons - but are known under different names.
It's just a typical nerd sperg but about literature technicalities instead of the typical STEM. These people hit a wall once they actually get into well educated circles that expose how much of a fraud they really are.
>a coach who knows all the terminology and concepts is a better player than the world class athlete
Why should a writer care about any of that? That's technician's jargon. Technicians of language do not write literature.
Good point. Knowing that shit might make you a better editor (of someone else's work).
with what
>>"Active Voice?"
The recommendation to primarily use the active voice comes from The Elements of Style by Strunk & White, but the authors did not understand English grammar nor the difference between the active and passive voice -- their examples illustrating it are all wrong -- and thus their advice should be ignored.
I had the same idea as you just had, but the book this user suggests makes a good case for the use of stylefigures. According to the author it should not be used to police and overanalyze (those dipshits can do that for all they want), but as a set of rethorical tricks to be used to emotionally sway the reader.
Is that her arm or a penis dildo
RIP
Sleep tight baz
Imagine some autist randomly listing basic grammar concepts and stylistic figures, and confusing the interlocutor. Reminds me of the "I want you to perform the transaction now" greentext.
ty added this to my frog list
>Nope!
what did they mean by this?
Women dont like hemingway and bukowski because both of them wrote about women honestly.
>heh...now that I've learned 10000 academic words from my jewish professor and acquired 6-digit debt I can finally craft the ultimate Novel!
>wait...
>something doesnt feel right...
>Jesus...I forgot to have talent, inspiration, and life experience! My entire youth was spent rote memorizing meaningless jewish babble instead of taking the world in, embracing new experiences, reading philosophy and thinking about the nature of cosmos!
Too bad Jimi Hendrix didn't go to Berkley. Maybe then could he have made some groundbreaking music that hasn't been matched before or since
>grammar is jewish
OP is retarded, but somehow you're even more so.
Absolutely basted and truthpilled. The Greats of literature didn't waste their time with technicalities and learning the precise term for this and that pseudojargon collegefags use to jerk themselves off over how much money they spent jerking themselves off with others in an amphitheateresque aircondiotioned room. They wrote. Then others read and we're like, "fuck that's some good shit right there"
dubs of truth
>The Greats of literature
They did. From antiquity to the early 20th ce, anyone who was educated had to learn how to identify rhetorical/literary techniques and then use them themselves via imitatio (μίμησις) as schoolboys. I suppose this surprises the burger who has plebian policies like no child left behind and exclusively reads YA throughout middle and high school.
Didn't read. Cope
I am a Romance speaker, so that stuff is very common in grammar classes. You learn it in any decent school, by the age of 13 or 14 you're supposed to have taken tests which forced you to memorize it. Of course it's totally useless for a writer. No novelist starts a sentence by thinking "And now it's time for a chiasmus!"
It can be useful for lawyers and politicians.
I know you don't
It sounds a lot more impressive as jargon than if you describe it in practical terms.
>I bet you're not even smart enough to use commas instead of periods to achieve an intended effect!
> ITT: Pseuds coping with the fact that they have no knowledge of rhetoric or technique by projecting their pseudness onto people who do
>guys who go on about Bukowski and Hemingway
Does this type of guy even exist anymore.
none of those is useful to know
No one believes you're laughing, faggot.
fax
>grammar is jewish
Yes
I only know active voice. I don't even know grammar rules, I just write one word and then the next like that until there's no more words.
i read some of timothy dexter's a pickle for a knowing one. which is a good test for your fluency in english. and the points where he had mentioned god had already been telling enough and note worthy for good literary work
i'm going to call for hate crimes on the subway walls and you can't stop me
uhhhhhh no
cool, another sexist book against men, SO BRAVE
Any fucking retard with a capacity for reading could end up writing well just by reading renowned authors and poets (and then assimilating/recombining their styles). You don't need to know what chiasmus is to be able to fucking reorder successive sentences so you don't sound repetitive. This whole line of thinking sounds like cope for people who can only derive a sense of superiority over the fact they learned shit from books and manuals while others learned from experience and have no actual grasp of theory. (Which is in many cases mostly unnecessary)
Those aren't even rules in the OP.
So? I write pulp.
Yeah just like any aspiring painter can create masterpieces simply by going to museums. Lmao publicly educated plebians are something else.
I did make a mistake by omitting the whole trial and error part of my post.
It's completely possible to learn to draw human forms without instruction (Anatomy knowledge is still required though, even if it isn't formal) , just harder.
And anyone that moves through an institution is smarter after.
Smarter--no. More skilled--if they went through STEM
Don't need to know any of that shit to write my short stories about a Dinosaur Wrestling League
>tfw learned how to read and write without knowing the alphabet
>elements of style
>active voice
>styles elements
Kek
ITT: terminal levels of cope
I'm an American, I've lived around the country, I've never met anyone that fits this stereotype. Idk where it comes from, Midnight in Paris maybe? American women like to be mad at men and don't like them to express themselves creatively, that's why they perpetuate it.
i dont know any of this shit and i'm an award winning writer, blap blap
I don't know anything formally about grammar but I got the highest grade on the grammar/writing section of the SAT in my school. I've always just been able to feel if something is off
Based and redpilled
Fuck lots of women and they will never take your confidence
Hard to get your shit in front of people when you're banned from real life (vaccine passports) and banned everywhere online (reddit, twitter, facebook, goodreads, instagram, etc etc )
All this retarded arguing about absolutely nothing, just learn the technical terms /while/ reading and studying the greats, its not that hard and you don't have to choose either/or
I thought women sre the only ones who like Bukowski.
took a dip just for the trips
The outgoing straight white male has already become the most demonized identity in western civilization
Lifestyles that were fun only 10 years ago are completely demonized in 2022
>wear your mask
>take your vaccine
>be progressive or else
father yakub, where are you when we need you?
>tfw you will never live to see the ancient underground spawning factories of africa rise from the sands to unleash armies of white people 2s from their vast skin grafting vats to destroy the black race that persecuted the great yakub once and for all
maybe a few ashtrays of women, but i think its a small number.
I have had a massive shit fuck ton of experience with women and the only thing they care about is how you make them feel
>this depends entirely on your personality and momentum in life
You can be yourself and be a complete maniac but if you make women feel good, you're golden
>I have had a massive shit fuck ton of experience with women
cringe
Worth to society directly correlates to ease in which you get vagina
Prove me wrong nerd
prove yourself right
Writers like Dryden and Pope were well aware of the new barbarian reading class and tried their best to allow them to catch up to those who were afforded a sophisticated education of the classics and literary judgement. They wrote translations in order to bridge the two together, to allow the monolingual middle class to obtain some sense of Mt. Parnassus.
Matthew Arnold was apt in calling the next generation of 18th ce English literature as the "age of prose." Up until the 1740s, verse set the standard for what was Literature. Since the rising middle class had neither the knowledge nor the care for the intricacies of meter or erudite craftsmanship, novels rose to the top of the booksellers' list and dethroned Apollo and Athena.
Writers like Johnson tried their best to educate the masses by writing essays on literary criticism to show them how to exercise judgement, to separate the wheat from the chaff, but, alas, neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante porcos.
I already did, there just is no forum for the study of "how to get mad pussy"
It's women caricaturizing the men they've dated.
The only reason his career took off is because of women and from that point all his writing is fueled by the drama of the female fans coming in and out of his life.
That is real life. Do you not have women in your life?
We were taking about how more women than men read Bukowski.
Why would a man read about what another man thinks about women, he should be out forging his own path
Didn't ask. Forge your own path to a noose.
were they trying to control them with what to like instead of liking the things they wanted to?
Still fucked Nadia
No one cares about any of that shit
Love from Kazakhstan
It’s not that these people aren’t talented, they just have no sense of artistry after boiling their writing style and approach down to a formulaic science. It’s like the literary equivalent of Jacob Collier- yes he might be incredibly talented on a technical level, but he hasn’t written a single song I would consider to be good. Its all just soulless harmonic complexity made by a robot. Truly artistic people understand these things intuitively but don’t scrutinise their approach on a theoretical level be cause it just kills the magic.
Truth. Yea Forumserally proving the meme correct
>yes he might be incredibly talented on a technical level
The truth is that purely technical "talent" comes in spades. Take a child with a minimum of affinity for a task and whip him day and night to perform and he'll become a prodigy at it, or at least world-class competent. Just look at art: the average teenager artist is on the level of what many professionals wer in the past decades. Competent people are making photorealistic shit in an hour, the means of producing art have increased, the instruction level is on par with XIX century academia, but there's practically no good art. It's all dumb cringey entertainment shit, nobody has a vision, nobody has anything to say, everyone's just lacking in integrity and humanity that all they can do is combine crap until the shapes and colors look good and it's fucking terrible. What these people have in their hearts is all just yuk yuk this is COOL EBIN BADASS just like in muh japanese anime or muh THICC whores PP big many shekels, everyone's using "talent" and training to make garbage. It's the same as all those people who graduate from Berkley and go on to make horrible progressive death metal with cringey pseud lyrics about nothing. I'm not even putting this in a way like "oh it was better in the past", the truth is that the majority of trained artists in the past were also goddamn fucking shit. Art is mostly shit in general, not even in the sense that it's not up to some standard, but that it's a plain negative force, it's some kind of shitty drug, stupid noise that dulls people's soul.
your right, I should stop spending all of my free time (what little I get) writing what I want, how I want, and learn the vocabulary and proper righting techniques of the literary elite. only then will I be a true writer! thanks user.
I respect this
Pedants are troublesome, but writing is a thoughtful process and ruminating on what it is one is doing in their writing could never hurt. The rules laid out might seem like trivia, but they do offer a useful map as a starting point for a deeper understanding.
It's certainly good if you know all those and make use of while developing different characters or just shaking up the rythm of the work. However, I'd like to think that most famous writers didn't think of this at all and it just natural came to them.
yeah, the middle class was a mistake
it would be the antithesis of /r9k/
These are the basics my man
as if you wouldn't be one of the proles with the rest of us
Tptb fear the anti grammar chad. Go read a book from the 18th century, nobody cared about grammar or spelling, and they were all more eloquent than the best author today.
Post an example.
100%
kys
Nigga, you’re delusional. There are countless books on rhetoric from hundreds of years before the eighteenth century.
This is pure egotism. Every professional poet or writer I’ve met or worked alongside has had a wealth of information to share regarding technical know-how, historical context, and creative solutions. To not learn about concepts as basic as these is to cheat yourself out of the potential to actually make it.
t. award-winning poet
If you're studying how to be a writer then you will never be a good writer.
"Award winning"
How about you show the writing from the 18th century that did not care about grammar or spelling?
I'm not saying that every good writer has to know all the linguistic and stylistic technicalities to be any good, but the anti-intellectual cope ITT is denying well-documented history. People in the more distant past were systematically taught grammar - Latin and usually their native. Spelling was more variant but it wasn't chaos. The eloquence came from systematically studying ancient authors and especially the rhetoricians.
English wasn't actually a standardized language until, I believe, the King James bible.
I wrote a paper in college to this effect and it's pretty obvious that if you look at literature written before a certain date everybody is just phonetically winging it
There are no rules in literature, just conventions. Often breaking conventions is what makes a piece of literature more interesting than the rest.
Just focus on writing what you enjoy, and what gives you catharsis. That’s what I do.
I don't think Jacob Collier is incredibly talented on a technical level, he's just very good at self promotion and playing the YouTube game.
All the shit he talks about and demonstrates is just par for the course for anyone who went through conservatory.
user, people like who want to write but haven't been born with enligsh as a native language need this shit. I have spent first 20 years of my life only reading hundreds of books in my language, and while some things translate, most of my experience is worthless. I literally must study to do anything worthwile.