How do we bring cel animation back?

No it's just the paint they used wasn't vibrant. The film recording possibly affected things too. I personally like the earthy, grounded look instead of the bright, sterile, digital look.

It's called not having a remaster.

Employ child labor

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We don't. Just recreate it with the right colors, painted backgrounds, no CGI and maybe a grain filter.

Theyd just make the children work on computers.

>no CGI
I'm almost at a point when I'm already fine with it being just that.

Houseki no Kuni gives me hope.

We simply dont, but instead try doing stuff like kabaneri but with good script instead

youtu.be/TzCUoooS8S0?t=106 (1:46min) I don't know, man. Still looks kinda janky.

They can do it but most people out there dont care too much for it
It also probably costs more and requires more effort

youtube.com/watch?v=dHdtxQsYNo8
They did a great job on this one for Monogatari

so korean war 2 and vietnam 2, gotcha I'll get on it

Leverage the private American Penal system for cheap labor.

This is the closest thing to having cel-like animation.

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Literally Kenshiro Jr

If they did people would complain that the episodes were released too slowly

Cel animation was lost as soon as his buddy Ub told Walt he could just Xerox drawings on the cheap and fired all the inking sluts

Tamashii.

don't watch stuff that isn't cell animated.

We simply have to create conditions in which it's more profitable to do cel. First thing that comes to mind is mass arson a la what happened to KyoAni, except with an explicit message against digital animation. A handful of fanatics could dictate terms to the whole industry this way.

do something about inflation and the economy.

By actually making the cels that can be used for animation?
So OP, why don't you start making cels and sell it to the nips instead of bitching on Yea Forums?

Get some rich autist who will sink millions into a dream project. That's the only way

We need a new golden age. Flood Japan up with easy money, when they run out of things to invest in I'm sure some of it will go into animation production no matter how risky.

I've sacrificed my fifth hitch-hiker last week to the old stone gods, but I still haven't made any progress. Two of them were black and I fear that that may have disappointed them, but I'm still pretty new at this. Anyone got any suggestions?

cell animation is too expensive and inefficient to ever come back. no studio will willingly double or even triple their production cost/time just cause a few people enjoy the look.

the technique is not dead tho. Cell animation will forever live on in animation schools and small independent shorts.

Uh... You got the right board, man?

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>How do we bring back hand-written books?

this but unironically

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>how do we bring back telegraphs?

So is the main appeal of cels to you purists the colors? I really like cel colors too but there's at least some really good looking modern anime. 90% of everything is crap regardless of the year. What about an anime that mimicks cel color pallets? I miss it too but there's no way they're going back to hand painting every frame.

Film > Digital

japans industry needs to have another boom.
increase and decline of animation quality has always been linked to the performance of japans economy.

for archival purposes yes

It's dead, Jim. You might as well talk about how to bring back Punch and Judy shows.

>CRT will always be superior.
CRTs are superior in only one respect, showing black.

>It's dead, Jim

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Seconding this despite being pretty much impossible

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Long story short, yes. The original coloring of many animation cels was about as bright as today's stuff, but it came out darker on the broadcast version.

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>was about as bright as today's stuff
Nope

The problem, with digital painting is it either too bright almost like neon colors or faded and dull.

Also cell animation had some actual depth unlike flat digital printing.

You got fake cell-shading nearly 5 years ago.

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You could make a show using cels if you want.

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>The problem, with digital painting is it either too bright almost like neon colors or faded and dull.
You could probably use the eyedropper tool to get the older shades at least.

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Once the Paul "Otaking" Johnson clones are mass produced...

/thread

Maybe some anime studios might use the technique if they saw a fuck ton of profit, exploiting nostalgia will happen eventually.

Filthy Frank is savage.

There's only so much you can do with analog methods when it comes to contrast. You paint cels, shine light through them, and capture the result on film. You could make it better with higher budget, but for low-budget productions (ie. basically any long-running TV anime) it meant that common dull look.

With digital you can do literally anything, even imitate old cel look. You don't have to physically mix and match colors or rely on IRL physics to adjust brightness and contrast. It saves time and money so much that you wouldn't have the current situation with 30+ TV anime running every season and even the shows with the shittiest animation are looking fine colorwise.

by getting so good at computer animating you cant tell the difference

*was

Bump

Fuck off Otaking77077.

>With digital you can do literally anything
Yet almost every contemporary production has the same color palettes, awfully low contrast, and completely unnecessary overlays.

My question is how did digital coloring get worse?

>With digital you can do literally anything, even imitate old cel look.

This.
There is absolutely nothing stopping studios from making current anime have the 90s/whatever look. It isn't hard to do and it doesn't cost them extra.

It still wouldn't be the same because visual storytelling also changed.

Whatever Sunrise did with G Reco felt close

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I'm just saying that there is nothing preventing studios from using digital in a manner that would make the animation look "old school".
The fact that both the market's and studios' preferences regarding style, storytelling, pacing, archtypes, etc. changed is an entirely different matter.

Just like Gundam Reconguista in G was, 5 years.

Textures, generous digital brushing and a warmer color palette (or just warm overlay) will do that.

> take a few frames from a cel shaded anime and a digital remaster and edit so that they perfectly overlap
> train a neural network on it
> repeat for x different animes
> do a style transfer for any digital anime to make it look cel shaded

Thanks to Houseki no Kuni and the Blame! movie I realized I like 3DCG anime when it is made well. Well worth watching even if the manga are better.

They should have animated it at 24 fps. That's the biggest problem I see with HnK's animation.

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What is this from?

saucenao has your answer

>How do we bring cel animation back?
You won't because cels require a lot of infrastructure in the production studio. All that physical equipment is gone and won't be coming back. If the equipment and infrastructure employees for cels aren't coming back, then cels won't be coming back either.

>Fix the japanese economy
>how do we spend the least amount of money possible
Japan has to compete with Chinese companies. So the wages have to be low or they go out of business. Already, a number of "japanese" animation production studios are actually chinese-run. The office may be in Japan, but the work is sent to china via internet and then comes back. It's all 3D CGI nowadays even if it is output to look like 2D hand drawns.

>Japan has to compete with Chinese companies.
You were saying it was cheap Korean just a couple of years ago. Which studios are you referring to?

But they don't do that, smartass.

This

Not bad

Nah, still look like shit.

3D will just never look good as 2D.

>They should have animated it at 24 fps. That's the biggest problem I see with HnK's animation.
It won't help as long as they use motion tween crap which is exactly why 3D shit is cheaper; you have base puppet and all you need to do is move it.

It won't come back but it can be perfectly imitated by digital techniques with an eye dropper and better shade placement. Why don't they do it? Who the hell knows, it's up to the director's preference as evidenced by the DBS Broly movie being vastly different to the anime since it was done by Shintani instead of Yamamuro. The director decides if it looks old school or not, and not many directors want it. Then there was that one DBS animator who tried to replicate Z everytime he got to animate something.

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I'd be happy if anime had this kind of coloring nowadays. Did the nips get no color training anymore and that's why they stick to the same middle colors and just make them a bit darker for shading?

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An extra one

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Angel Cop

meant for:

angel cop

By PERFECTING it!

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>it can be perfectly imitated by digital techniques

Still waiting on that one

Even the horrible super saiyan blue and golden frieza looks cool

Alright maybe not "perfectly" but if the colors were like those screens it's already a vast improvement from the perfectly pristine and boring stuff we usually get. And perhaps a noise filter on top of better colors and you're set.

But there isn't even an attempt by most studios.

I think it's mostly a talent issue, not a technology issue, for why most modern anime is lacking in the art department.

And there you have the main issue, there has to be an attempt to even have a chance of it coming to be.

That's the thing that annoys me. They somehow all decided that it was time to move on from the past style and that was it. I doubt the went around Japan asking people for their opinions and showing them screen comparisons because I bet most would say the 90-80s drawings looked better in a picture with the strong shading.
They decided it on their own and... I guess that can do it. They're the ones producing our anime and it still makes money because poeple won't stop watching anime.

Yep this will only be attempted as passion projects,which only dragon ball has a chance to get since Z was so iconic. Both the anime and the latest movie attempted it to cash in on nostalgia but most anime don't have a reason to try it.

Picture made by made with Celsys Studio tools but size reduced to fit according to Yea Forums posting limits.
celsys.co.jp/en/

>A handful of fanatics could dictate terms to the whole industry this way.
But they have done so successfully. Muslims had threatened studios with violence. You'll never see any anime with negativity towards Islam. It's very unlike other religions which often gets negative exposure such as in To Aru Index / Railgun and Detective Conan.

>So OP, why don't you start making cels and sell it to the nips instead of bitching on Yea Forums?
Not that guy, but your american and mexican cels aren't japanese animation. Cel animation also requires a lot of rework, so they must be made onsite or at least in the same city the final production cel layers will be assembled for shooting. Otherwise, all that federal express or express messenger delivery service will cost a fortune as well as create huge delays.

So your vicious demand sums up to something farfetched as "Why not open a shop and make cels on planet Mars?" It simply is not do-able. Ignoring costs, skill pool, and cel material infrastructure, the Time Constraints won't allow it. Investors commit money to a production project, so all the time they wait until the production is created and then airs and causes merchandise to be sold to recoup investment costs is time lost. If your cel production adds time to this, and it will add a lot, that is additional financial loss to those investors. They will invest somewhere else and probably in all your competitors who are using digital CGI with much faster turnaround time than cels.

>is there some kind of filter over old anime that makes every single color look dull?
Cels use reflected light. Light also must pass through multiple layers of transparent cels to reach the colored layers to bounce off and then that light re-travels back through the transparent cel. Some shots have 11 layers.

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Besides training and quality of colorists, in traditional you start with saturation and rich colors. you work your way down. In traditional there are a lot of artists who are too scared to do anything too drastic and figure it out through till it looks good.

>awfully low contrast

A lot has to do with the process. Linework is done on paper in pencil, and scanned in at low resolution (for the screen) in black and white. Then they color everything in aliased form. To remove the jaggies, they smooth the image, then they apply anisotropic diffusion. That ruins contrast.

A quick solution would be to scan in and color at double resolution to what will be displayed, but that will add a lot of cost to the production. It would remove the need for diffusion- you'd just need to smooth and resize, which would keep more of the contrast.

If there's enough of a demand for it, and that demand is backed by a willingness to pay for it, then anything is possible. But I doubt it exists, except maybe for the occasional niche project.

>only so much you can do in the way of contrast in analog
Film cameras can be manipulated through aperture, shutter speed, and ISO
That's called trash low tier colorists copying one another. good anime has good colors and do whatever they want with em.
>scanned in black and white
close, scanned normally at low res, the program separates it to black and white
>anisotropic diffusion that ruins the contrast
where the hell did you get that from
Pic included is from the kyoani video before and after they apply the smoothing filter, colors bearly change, or if you want to be nitpicky, they became higher contrast in the smoothed out version.
doubling the dpi of the scan makes it 4 times the work, it makes clean up a nightmare too. The reason contrast is low on most anime is cause of colorists who are too afraid to use bold colors ( where in trad you start off with max contrast and work down)

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>not enough demand
Wrong
The company that used to make cels decided to stop making them. Throwing away a million dollar of equipment and buying computers isn't exactly something a budget cutter would do. They could straight up not use cel no more.

>where the hell did you get that from
One of Danny Choo's vids where he went to a studio (not Kyoani, I can't remember which one). They explained that they used a diffuse filter after smoothing. I was able to imitate the filter by using anisotropic diffusion, because standard diffuse didn't get the same effect).

You can't. Digital is cheaper and easier to mass produce.

Except you'd get a major backlash from the audience that actually buys the shit instead of leeching off of it, encouraging the company to defy you to keep them on their side. Not to mention arrested when you're ratted out by your own when the heat gets too much.

Imagine celebrating a whole year of dopey faced anime girls. What a sad existence.

You don't understand how capital budgeting works, do you?

Not asking about the smoothing filter. Asked you managed to ruin the colors of your damn image with a smoothing algorithm?
That doesn't make any sense. That's like saying you broke all the plates by starting the washing machine.
Also post results, I'm kinda curios. don't get to talk to many artfrens on Yea Forums

I bet you also think you can resurrect the dead with money

You don't need to. You just need to train new people to do what they used to do, and that can be done with money.

Oh, wow.

We don't.

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Based galaxy express triples
zero century coming 2020 hiroyuki yamaga gainax

I wrote it wrong. I meant more that the lines became less black when you apply anisotropic filtering, which is a loss in contrast. They didn't demarcate the borders as nicely. It gets worse when lighting filters are applied ontop (which washes out the colors).

Maybe it's more my monitor and setup. Try using those filters on your work and see what happens to the lines.

This is your best cherry picked examples?
On the right, the first one looks like bad 3D. The second looks super sterile. The third is back anatomy. The fourth one looks both sterile and 3D. or at least they traced 3D figures. I don't know.
Whether I'm correct in my assessment or not, the point is, they look bad, due to their overtly digital techniques.

Honestly, the reason why cel animation looks so good, is that the process of drawing on paper and transferring to cels, and all that, gives the image a subtle texture. Colors aren't completely smooth, there is a very fine grain. Lines aren't complete uniform, there is a variance in line weight that naturally comes from drawing with real inks. And there is a slight blurriness that softens the entire image.

The problem with digital, is that no one appreciates the benefits of texture. So they just make everything as crisply and uniformly as possible. And they think it looks more professional, but it just makes it look more sterile.

This guy is an actual psychopath. Anyone who agrees with him is an actual psychopath. Cartoons are not worth people's lives.

>Cartoons are not worth people's lives.
I agree. The bugs at A1 aren't people though, so start with them.

>the irony of a violent otaku calling anyone else a bug
You okay, bud?

I see
That's fair but shouldn't be that dramatic...
do yo use especially thin lines or mute your blacks? One of the reasons for today's low contrast in many anime is the colorists muting the blacks, choosing grayish or brownish tones. notice too in the evergarden production videos you can see how the lines are 2 pixels wide almost all the way around
As for filters, screw filters, for color filters, it's better to just get the colors right in the first place, as for the rest it shouldn't be too much of a problem, unless you are using bloom or full screen gradients.

Go back

The technology and talent does not exist for it anymore.

>the irony of an election-year tourist telling anyone to go back
We had containment boards for people like you even before we eventually pushed them to other chans. /pol/ is two doors down if you want to LARP as an unhinged psychopath.

>and talent
I'm sorry you watch trash user
>inb4 he asks for sauce of good modern anime

It's not practical anymore.

What the fuck are you on about, I mean that the SPECIFIC talent for drawing cel work does not exist anymore. Just like how cel artists had to painfully adjust to digital in the early-00s, if we were to revert back to cels again, it would be a very rough process getting it to look right.

>people who are good at inkin don't exist
user, get off Yea Forums, you really don't have the noggin for this stuff.

Things can be re-learned. No one is ever irreplaceable.

Learn.

bring it back yourself like how david bul.l brought back ukyoe