Remember dont be tempted by dragons especially spanish ones
Remember dont be tempted by dragons especially spanish ones
Gavin Collins
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Easton Cooper
It's Shouta-kun's solemn duty as a man to fill that fertile womb with his seed.
Alexander Morales
Cooper Barnes
Quetzalcoatl is mesoamerican
Isaiah Jones
Lucoa needs a better shota.
Aaron Sanders
Like who
Aaron Flores
One of those perverted buzzcut shotas.
Cameron Cooper
Sebastian Adams
>precolombian Mayan deity existing some hundreds of years before the aztecs adopted it as a god and way before conquistadors even came close to mesoamerica
>spanish
Jordan Wood
Spain=Mayan gods
Thats why we call you stupid gringo puñetero
Parker Bailey
Dont bully the burger, user.
Isaiah Gray
do dragons have clocoas?
Caleb Ramirez
cow goddess of lust
Nathaniel Allen
Next time don't mistake Spaniards for gods. How low does one's self-esteem have to be to attribute divinity to guys that look like pic related?
Joshua Nelson
Point of order, they would have been even shorter and scrawnier due to worse nutrition while also being filthier since they had just spent months on a ship.
Tyler Bennett
Only one way to find out.
Joseph Parker
Well, they were unlucky. Indians thought blue people were gods and we know humans don't normally have that skin color.
Adrian Gray
>dont be tempted by dragons
>not being tempted by dragons.
Aaron Jones
Adam Myers
What a grotesque mockery of the sexy Lucoa from the main manga.
Kevin Wilson
Shouta a best
Michael Morris
Why is she wearing one of Kobayashi's shirts?
Jackson Taylor
Because it's Kobayashi's shirt.
Anthony Cox
makes sense
Lincoln Cook
He is very cute, but a little annoying.
Grayson Rogers
I like Lucoa , but I hate shota porn. Wat do?
Jack Moore
Sebastian Hall
>spanish
Christopher Bailey
Caleb Morris
More like spanish'd, in this case.
Parker Rodriguez
>I like Lucoa , but I hate shota porn.
Just keep her out of the cursed alcohol, so there isn't any shota porn, just a little teasing instead.
Aaron Parker
Preferably perish
Robert Watson
>tried to hook up with her sister and lost godhood
>lucoa is into women
no longer into lucoa
Parker Scott
All spics are the same desu
Wyatt Long
Based wingman Tohru
Tyler Torres
tbqh i couldn't even begin to imagine what the spanish conquistadors looked like to people who had never seen a horse before, must've been terrifying, like straight up seeing an alien
Daniel Peterson
Do you is the gay?
Julian Reyes
The idea that the Mesoamericans thought the Spanish were gods is mostly a meme
You only see that show up in accounts and records pretty decently into the colonial period, by which point Catholic themes and ideology had been mixed into indigenous theology by both Spanish friars (as a way to make conversion of people easier) and by native nobility (to make their own history and religious practices seem more palatable to europeans). An example of the latter is how in accounts about Nezahualcoyotl, the most famous king of the city-sytate of Texcoco, by Fernando Ixtlilxóchitl, a decedent of the Texcocoan royal family; he claims that Nezahualcoyotl rejected human sacrifice and worshiped a singular monotheistic god, when from other sources we know that's BS)
In particular, Quetzalcoatl (and the Toltec king Ce Acatl Topiltzin, who is often associated with him and the myths and stories about him and Quetzalcoatl are often interchangedable/mixed up) became associated with Jesus, while other deities and supernatural figures were associated with demons and satan. Beyond this, another thing that bolsters this sort of psuedohistorical info is that Quetzalcoatl was known as the "White Tezcatlipoca", alongside Xipe Totec (Red Tezcatlipoca), Huitzilopotchli (Blue Tezcatlipoca), and Tezcatlipoca (Black Tezcatlipoca); these each representing a specific cardinal direction, the aforementioned color, etc. The colors in question weren't the literal colors of the skin of the god: Huitzilptochli did have blue painted skin and Tezactloipoca had yellow and black painted skin. but Xipe totec merely had red clothes, while Quetzalcoatl isn't ever depicted as white in aztec/central mexican codices to my knowledge, usually instead green, blue, a greyish green, etc.
You can see an example of clearly catholic ideas being injected into Aztec accounts of the Toltec and quetzalcoatl here in the excerpt in pic related.
1/?
Chase Allen
Good, more for me.
Jaxon James
bumping
Jordan Robinson
What a gorgeous pussy.
Isaac Kelly
cont:
The only thing close to it in Cortes's accounts (or accounts within the first decade of the conquest) is that when Cortes demanded the Totonacs of the city of Cempoala lock up the Aztec taxers who were there, and the Totonacs informed Cortes that would be seen as a declaration of war, Cortes essentially went "do it faggt"; and then they called him "teules", which apparently gets interperated by the Spanish as "god" and from that point on they call themselves that to try to scare mesoamericans into thinking they are.
The problem with this is that "teules" isn't really a word. It's close to "teotl", which CAN made god in Nahuatl (the Aztec language), but the Totonac didn't speak Nahuatl, so there's already clearly some mistranslation going on here. Secondly, Teotl doesn't just mean god, but can also just mean "divine" or "otherworldly" or even just "awe-inspiring" or "strange"; or most esoterically refers to a mystical energy which forms the fabric of the world/it's underlying spiritual framework in Aztec metaphysical philosophy. So even if they did mean Teotl or some totonac counterpart to the concept, they could have just been calling Cortes an absolute madman for being willing to jail the Aztec tax officials or calling him a fucking wierdo; and in some later adaptions of Cortes's letters (as noted in pic related), Montezuma II himself outright acknowledges that Cortes is human.
There's also some bits of it which further gets tied into the fact that the Conquistadors arrived on the Mesoamerican calednrical date of 1-Reed, which ties into the aforementioned stuff with Ce Acatl Topiltzin: In many myths/historical accounts of Quetzalcoatl/Topiltzin, the god/king is disgraced (the most infamous version for the god being, and what Dragon Maid notes, where Tezcatlipoca drugs Quetzalcoatl, at which point he fucks his sister), and he is exiled out to sea, traveling east, allegedly to return one day.
2/?
Chase Cruz
What if you are also a "spanish dragon?"
Benjamin Martinez
>He saw the cartoon
Jeremiah Bell
>spanish
meme or not fuck you
Josiah Bell
Akkun is cuter.
Anthony Phillips
cont:
There's some cooborating accounts from colonial era records in the Yucatan where an individual named Kulkulkan (the Yucatec Maya term for Quetzalcoatl) arrives and settles into Chichen Itza, which happens to have a temple complex almost identical to a temple complex at Tula, the archeological site that is most often associated with the Toltec captial of Tollan), so a more historical approach to these accounts would imply that Ce Acatl Topiltzin was a king who then travelled east, arrived in the Yucatan, and ruled over the Maya city of Chichen Itza, and IIRC, the Itza maya themselves were said to have more central-mexican (Tlatilco, Cuicuilco, Teotihuacan, Toltec, Aztec, etc) cultural/ethnic roots, and just got "maya-anized"
That's all pretty compelling but I know that a lot of this info is suspect and controversial, and AFAIK there's really no academic consensus on how historical vs mythological aztec accounts of Toltec history are, how exactly Ce Acatl Topiltzin and Quetzalcoal relate to each other, or how much of a relationship Tula and CHichen Itza have, or if Tula is Tollan, etc
Anyways, in the Colional period, due to the aforementioned perversion and adaption of Mesoamerican mythological themes, as mentioned this got twisted into Quetzalcoatl/Ce Acatl Topiltzin actually being jesus who arrived and then left to go back to Eurasia (which the Mormons then also picked up), and also mixed in with "The Aztec thought Cortes was Quetzalcoatl", as Cortes coincidentally arrived on the cylical year 1-reed, and it fits in with Quetzalcoatl/Ce Acatl Topiltzin returning from the east, but as previously noted, Cortes himself doesn't note anything akin to this as being recgonized as Quetzalcoatl, and as noted in the image in , this is likely a gradual distortion from mistranslation/misunderstanding of symbolic figures of speech in the noble/royal/diplomatic varients of Nahuatl
3/?
Jacob Flores
So now Lucoa has to play her part of the deal by telling Kobayashi to impregnate Tohru, right?
Luke Watson
Spics couldn't even stop rednecks from stealing a third of your country your opinions are irrelevant
Wyatt Peterson
The best Lucoas have big tummies.
Landon Gray
cacao lucoa
Charles Gray
Threads like this is why Kyoto Animation was torched!
Jeremiah Clark
Now, while "Quetzalcoatl was white/ jesus!" is basically total BS, and "the Aztec thought cortes/the spanish are gods!" is mostly BS too, since, as mentioned, Cortes himself does not mention much of it and it mostly only shows up in much later (like 50 years later) spanish accounts after much propoganization took place, Sahagun's History/The Florentine codex notably includes the "the Aztec thought cortes was quetzalcoatl" thing
This is notably since Sahagun's history was made only 20 years after the conquest, and Sahagun worked closely with Aztec nobles, elders, and scribes as informants, and is widely considered one of our best sources, containing like 2000 pages with detailed info on Aztec history, society, daily life etc (and is a perfect example of why "hur we don't know much about them" is BS). However, this is not a smoking gun proof that it actually was something the Aztec thought, since while Sahagun is considered a much better source then most Conquistadors, the purpose of his History was still to aid the franciscan friars in converting natives by giving them a reference, and many of his native informants were already Christianized, and it's possible that a Christianized Ce Acatl Topiltzin that Cortes arriving on 1-reed and being seen as quetalcoatl wuld play into the conquest being fated even in native religion was already being utilized and part of the process; as conversion efforts were already underway by then.
So, Sahagun comes in earlier enough and uses more native sources to where it *might* suggest that Cortes being seen as Quetzalcoatl was something at least SOME native people thought or had heard others thought, but probably not on a widespread basis or Montezuma II himself thinking that, contrary to Sahagun/Duran/Bernal Diaz's accounts, since Cortes himself makes no mention of it as states and per what the image in says
4/?
Elijah Flores
I applaud the effort you’re going through to lay down the truth user
Daniel James
What if lucoa was fat
Jordan Rodriguez
what if she forced her bellybutton on Shouta
as a joke haha
Gabriel Cooper
You mean Shouta's school bullies
i agree
Juan Lopez
Only if they make Shouta crossdress again as well.
Luis Bennett
Keep going this is interesting.
Luke Brooks
cont:
As what i've posted thus far should hopefully demonstrate, the idea that the Mesoamericans saw the Spanish as incomprehensiable, alien or supernatural beings doesn't hold much water. They were not idiots: By the time the Spanish had shown up, the region had huge stone monuments, class systems, long distance trade, etc for nearly 3000 years, see pic. Contrary to how they get depicted in fiction as barely-civilized tribes that just live around big pyramids, by at least 200AD and in many ways even earlier, these were highly organized state societies with formal governments, complex stratified societies, large cities, high art and intellectual traditions (poets, philsophy, etc), organized armies, etc, comparable to at least Eurasian Bronze age civilizations in almost every way, and in many ways were more comparable to Iron, Classical, or Medieval societies, or even ahead of europe as of contact in a few ways (I can clarify if requested)
There's not much evidence they thought Calvary were centaurs, for instance, it's really just in 1-2 conquistador accounts and both of them are just sort of assuming that's what the Mesoamericans thought, without actual statements by Mesoamericans. To the contrary in Aztec accounts, for instance, they basically refer to horses as "large deer", which is the closest animal analog they had to horses. (they also quickly came up with anti-calvary tactics" they made their formations less wide and linear, they strew stones around battlefields ahead of time to act as caltrops to trip the horses up, etc)
Another example of them describing something unfamiliar with still familiar analogs is they called the giant Spanish boats "floating houses". In Duran's history this is usually framed as them viewing it as some sort of supernatural dwelling, but Duran's history also does the whole "Cortes as Quetzalcoatl" thing so if that was actually the case is questionable
5/?
Cooper Young
thanks based mesoamerica user
Caleb Collins
Blessed thread
Levi Sanders
>tooru thread
do your chores, tooru!
>lucoa thread
fatposting, /his/posting
Caleb Ward
cont:
The Aztec and Maya are far from the only Mesoamerican cultures that worshiped Feathered Serpent deities, and the earliest iconography depiction we have of them dates back to the Olmec city of La Venta, with La Venta Monument 19. La Venta was primarily occupied as an urban center from 900BC to 400BC, but it was inhabited as a less-complex village/hamlet before then and per books.google.com
I don't know much about other depictions at Olmec (also see for why "Olmec" is sort of misleading, the image in is how it is due to not having the space to clarify) sites or other preclassic sites, but I came across a paper (Early Representations of Mesoamerica's Feathered Serpent: Power, Identitity, and The Spread of a Cult) which, based on my skimming of it (don't have time to read it in full rn) essentially argues that at La venta and other preclassic sites it's a distinct precursor of the later feathered serpent gods with it's own iconographic conventions, noting a earth-sky dualism, which is something I've seen noted in reference to it in the context of the Aztec, which I'll touch on later
6/?
Jonathan Reyes
Lucola is a snake so that means is fine then.
Jordan Martin
Is this a /pol/ thread?
Gavin Peterson
cont:
I meant to delete and repost the last post with this info added but Yea Forums is telling me the post is too old to delete, so Monument 19 based on my cursory research (not too informed on Olmec stuff) seems to have priestly associations since the satchel the figure is holding is apparently something used by religious officials in mesoamerican cultures, while his headdress resembles that of Maya royalty (I don't see the resemblence but the sources I'm reading say it so?), and had dual priestly/royal associations as a result (worth noting here that classic and preclassic political organization AFAIK tended to have the priestly caste holding the most political power with theocractic rulers anyways though, in contrast to the more martial focused rule of the postclassic). The paper I mentioned also briefly mentions a ruler association towards the end, but, again, didn't have time to read it in depth and i've already been posting in this thread for 16 fucking hors and i'm not delaying it further.
Moving on from the preclassic to the classic, and from the Gulf Coast of Mesoamerica to Central Mexico, let's talk about Teotihuacan. As noted in the image in , Teotihuacan was a fucking giant metropolis (see image) located just to the northwest of Mexico city today, and was widely culturally and politically influential during it's heyday. One of the ways this was such is that it codified many iconographic elements of Feathered Serpent gods that would be later seen in central mexico amongst the Toltec and Aztec as well as elsewhere. However, it's symbolic associations in contrast are different from later uses: At Teotihuacan Quetzalcoatl/the feathered serpent has water associations.
7/?
I was directly countering /pol/ pseucoarcheological bullshit, so no.
Nathaniel Ortiz
cont:
The Facade of the temple of the feathered serpent at Teotihuacan, for example, on top of being adorned with relifs of the serpent and sculptures of it's head; is also adorned with relifs of marine shells (keep this in mind for later), sculptures of what i've variously seen reffered to as Tlalocan (Tlaloc being the Aztec rain god, which similarly has a long history going back thousands of years with other cultures having the same archetype, distinguished by "goggles" and fangs, though some of the symbolic associations shifted as with feathered serpents, such as some pre-aztec depictions had feline elements and war associations) or as being proto-cipactli (Cipactli being a primordial sea monster). The sinewing shape of the serpent's body also resembles a water current on the facade. Furthermore, as seen in , the canalized San-Juan river was aligned to run perpendicular in front of the Citudela plaza in front of the Feathered Serpent temple, and the plaza itself could be flooded much like the Colosseum in rome for religious ceremonies. I've also seen some theories the shimmering surface of water/rviers could be related to the glint of scales/feathers.
The offerings/art found at the complex and notably in the tunnel recently found running under the temple are also aquatic in nature (I can't be assed to look into it further for this post since i'm starting to burn out typing it all out, but IIRC the tunnel is also representative of the underworld somehow (theguardian.com
8/?
Grayson Long
this is why I go into kyoani threads
Jason Brown
cont:
I'd normally talk about the Toltec Quetzalcoatl here, since after the fall of Teotihuacan the Toltec allegedly rose to power in central mexico, but I already covered that as much as I care to here so we'll be skipping to Aztec, though I suppose that's sort of a bit of a cop out since I didn't actually talk much about Ce Acatl Topiltzin so much as how the myths about him get misused and distorted. But i'm getting tired so i'll save that for anothet time when I repost all this in another thread.
Tl;dr, he';s associated with a florushing of the arts, culture, and civilization, much like how/and is part of why thge Aztec viewed the Toltec as the originators of high culture they inherited. And again, since Toltec historical accounts are from Aztec sources, the Aztec quetzalcoatl has those associations.Something you see in other Aztec myths is that Quetzalcoatl tends to be a benefactor of humanity, I mentioned before how he trudged through the underworld to bring back the bones of Humanity to revive them in the new incarnation of the woirld (the Aztec creation myth involves the cyclical creation and destruction of the world).
Something important to note here is that at Teotihuacan and most other CLassic period sites, feathered serpent gods/quetzalcoatl is almost exclusively shown as, well serpents. This is in contrast to in the postclassic, Aztec, Toltec, etc depictions, where you see both but especially also humanoid depictions. In his humanoid depiction, his most distinctive elements are a red, beak like mask, and a spiral shell worn on his chest. Recall, again, how I mentioned the shell patterns on the temple of the feathered serpent at Teotihuacan. However, here, the shell does not represent water but wind: The idea is that it's a conch shell, spewing forth air. This is in particular associated with the wind god Ehecatl, who is an aspect of Quetzalcoatl.
9/?
Parker Green
This thread is pretty lit.
Heh.
Michael Robinson
Matthew Jones
Rayquaza's prototype design was pretty cool
Gabriel King
I wish I was one of those jaguars
Jaxson Nguyen
>gets a spin off manga
>art makes her a turbolard
god I hate fatfags
Kevin Evans
Juan Ross
If she'd just stop smothering him with affection, he'd probably be fine with more skinship.
Oliver Foster
improved
Jacob Green
Her design was fixed. A fertility goddess shape fits her much better, rather than a stick with two balloons attached to it.
Dylan James
fertility goddess not obesity goddess