Help me understand this character

realistic depiction of one

>creature hungry for attention
>relatable
what are you a woman

> She's german, we're all like that here

Bullshit. Real german girls are shit and obese.
At least Asuka for all her faults is a fuckable babe. If you bang her at night you don't even have to see her face. So win win.

It's just as important that she also hates people for having that power to hurt her and herself for being affected. She doesn't trust, she responds to support like it was an attack when she's hurting. Her dream is to be absolutely vital, constantly assured by excelling, while also not needing anyone.

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why did she kiss shinji?

Asuka is for teen pregnancy sex.

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She wanted to make Shinji show her that he cared for her by reciprocating the kiss. He didn't and that really upset her, regardless of if she actually liked or didn't like him romantically.

Imo the kiss scene is one of nge's best moments (partly why ep 15 is my favorite). It manages to illustrate how similar Asuka and Shinji are inside and how toxic they both are to others because of their self-worth issues.

Asuka is a dependent person, who needs others to want her and desire her or else she feels alone/worthless. Just like she depends of the Eva so people can praise her. She tried to depend on Kaji and Shinji and that didn't work out.

>Asuka is a dependent person, who needs others to want her and desire her or else she feels alone/worthless.
Then someone should put a baby into her.

She's a b____

Oskar would've put a baby into Shinjiko by the 2nd day of coordinated training.

Inferior to Rei.

>putting a baby inside a person who is emotionally unstable
Yeah, what an excellent idea.

I prefer this version.

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Speaking of which, how do you anons feel about the matter of whether or not Asuka and Shinji felt something more than just sexual attraction for eachother? I flip-flop on the issue myself, and Yea Forums seems to predominantly think there was nothing there
On the one hand, they're young and damaged, and almost certainly not ready for a relationship, on the other...There's nothing really all that rare or special about romantic love. 2 out of 3 normalfag songs on the radio are about it, and billions of people experience it everyday. It grows nicely from/along sexual attraction, too
I feel EoE revealed they had greater mutual expectations than just the objectification of eachother, but it also revealed the deep seated issues that could be a deterrent to feelings of love. This question is really more complicated than it seemingly has any right to be, and to me it's testament to the series' great writing

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imagine the best girl in existence

Their age, lack of experience and the whole save the world thing got in the way of them developing that kind of affection but yes i think there was little bit of it they just needed time and different circumstances.

I saw it as her being frustrated with her lack of success with Kaji and needing to show her sexual dominance over somebody. Cuck boy Shinji is a bottom bitch and will stand up to nobody but he's a lucky bastard with the way the women around him treat him.

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she needs someone to actually take the lead and take care of her... She is disgusted by Shinji for his pushover attitude. She is in love with Kaji for being an assertive chad. Why do you think she felt attracted when Shinji tried to strangle her, it was the first time he reciprocated any of the abuse she had thrown at him.

I think you're on the right lines talking about how Yea Forums puts romance on a pedestal, when even successful romances don't need perfect conditions. Most romances in anime are so autistically neat and perfect that it's easy to forget that it almost never works like that irl. It says a lot that many anime END at the point where a romance starts, as if it's just assumed that everything will go perfectly because they finally got together, and only good couples become official in anime.
No, romance isn't something as unreachable as that. I'm certain Asuka had more feelings than just physical towards Shinji, on several occasions she seems to really try to get him to open up, tries to get to know him better, even if it's in a way where she's still "in control" of the conversation. As for Shinji towards Asuka, because his policy is to shy away from relationships (as opposed to Asuka trying to be on top of them), he shows less interest in Asuka, out of a fear of exposing himself, but I think there's enough evidence to say he likes her as a person. Often when she's obviously hurt by something, he makes at least a small attempt to right it - which is a lot coming from him! In EoE he wants her to wake up, "call me an idiot like you always do", basically return to the banter they had before which he'd come to appreciate as just being "how their relationship works". And after being half-dead himself, not caring whether he lived or died, and just sinking deeper into self-hatred when Misato died, the thing that really shakes him up and makes him lose his shit is seeing Asuka torn to shreds by the MP Evas.
Finally, the last scene of EoE is the clincher for me. That scene is all about a sharing of understandings. It's the one moment of real understanding that either of these characters get in the whole show. The whole thing has been about how humans always hide part of the truth, but in that moment, just for a few seconds, they achieve true understanding of each other.

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She had to be attracted to Shinji on some level. The hottest girl in school who could have anyone wouldn't kiss someone she was not into

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I kind of see the opposite. Media tends to over complicate and dramatize relationships. I'm a shut in so I'm not speaking from experience but friends of mine and other people close in my life never have the ridiculous relationship issues that happen in anime and television.

genderflipped eva would be full shoujo, complete with a triangle between the meek mc, the troubled badboy and the straight laced guy
i'd love it

because Asuka puts on a facade around the other students in the school, she wants to be seen as cool, pretty and popular. Getting in a relationship with a boy from the school might put a dampener on that.

based

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>and needing to show her sexual dominance over somebody.
but if we go with that, how do the events immediately preceding the kiss factor in? ditching a date with an older boy, voluntarily leaving a 'successful' situation by those metrics

Whats this? An actual good Eva thread? Hope this doesn't get shitted up like the other one earlier today, but that one was doomed from the start.

Not to hijack the thread, but do you guys think Asuka got a good ending? I mean, we don't get to see her get closure on her problems in EoE like Shinji does, so do you think she even got to change?

Because she was bored

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But the other guy she ditched wouldn't be some subservient coward who has to be told to kiss an attractive girl. It's yet another part of her superiority complex and she's using her dominance over Shinji to feel better about her failure with Kaji.

Asuka as a character makes a lot more sense if you imagine her as a black woman.

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>the other guy she ditched wouldn't be some subservient coward
then why is it the fact that shinji acts like a subservient coward that wounds her most of all about the kiss? if she wanted someone who would just do what they're told why does she scream in her head about shinji not holding her, ie only doing what he was told?

her ending is fantastic. Although she did not solve any of her psychological problems she did regain her sense of self. (However it seems her self worth is still tied in her superiority complex.)

She is the typical German woman. That's it.

Because she wants him to be like Kaji clearly. Since Shinji does not display any dominant character traits she rolls right over him to boost her self image. I think what she really wants is Shinji to act like a man and since he won't she torments him instead.

that's the implication, by virtue of her actions in the ending, the way it's positioned as a symbolic rebirth and, if you stretch a bit, the way ep 26 says they're simply going to only show shinji's experiences in instrumentality while the others are shown going through the same kind of soul-searching up to that point.

obviously that doesn't mean she's gonna hop out of the cosmic womb suddenly un-traumatized and genki and all that, that's not what the series is about or its worldview, but it shows the potential for growth and all that

so she ditches her date because he's not a coward but she kisses shinji because he is a coward but then is deeply wounded when he is a coward in the situation she created because she expected him to be a coward

I could tell you why she is that way but she already says it herself.
How are you gonna listen to me when you didn't bother listening to her on her own show?

yup, that's exactly how I see it. She was not deeply wounded she got the outcome she expected but was still disappointed from it. Whatever you think about Asuka's reason for kissing Shinji the constant of her character is her superiority complex and the kiss was a power play.

>She was not deeply wounded
why is that the moment that haunts her when an angel is picking apart the most repressed and vulnerable parts of her psyche

never noticed that portion maybe your right but the reason I guess it upset her is because Shinji is still acting like a beta considering Kaji will never care for her in the same way.

seems hard to miss. though i don't remember if it was the same in the tv version of the episode, maybe that's it

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>ope this doesn't get shitted up like the other one earlier today
What happened to the earlier one today?

It was a decent thread, there was some waifufaggotry but that's almost to be expected

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Imagine what women are like and why they are the way they are.

Now imagine would teenage girls are like, specifically in reference to the modern era and what women are like.

Now imagine what a teenage girl would be like when severely fucked by a traumatic childhood experience and no real love while growing up. Specifically in reference to how and why women and girls are the way they are.

Asuka is a damn fine character. Realistic while also being stupid waifu bait. Also the perfect compliment to Shinji, which is why they are always going through so much together.

No two characters are more made for each other.

I think Yea Forums is retarded, in that it devolves into arguments where either
>a) they had true love and should be together forever and ever
>b) they felt nothing for each other, it's all hormones
Neither of these is satisfactory. It's pretty clear that they don't have a healthy relationship and I think they're actually both fundamentally incapable of loving anyone else because of their own issues. If you can't love yourself, you can't love someone else.

However, that doesn't mean they don't care about each other at all. Asuka could have any guy at school she wants or the guy she goes on a date with, but she goes back to Shinji. They both show an interest in each other beyond the physical
>the scene in episode 9 after asuka runs off
>jumping into the volcano to rescue her in episode 10
>the hospital scene in episode 16
>shinji's interest in her family in episode 22
Shinji shows an interest in her emotions and struggles, but lacks the confidence to push through her defences and talk to her about them, and even if he didn't she lacks the ability to make herself vulnerable enough to discuss them anyway.

Asuka definitely shows greater interest in Shinji than he does in her. Arael's most effective line of attack in the mindrape scene is replaying her failures with Shinji. If he was just a potential fuck to her, that wouldn't be such an effective attack. Shinji demonstrates interest in using Asuka as an emotional support, but he does that with everyone. When Asuka calls him out in the kitchen scene of EoE for only coming to her when it's convenient to him, she's completely right.

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I want Kaworu and Asuka to end up together
They're the two most popular Eva characters

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I always took the final scene of EoE as Asuka not only being able to connect with Shinji, but also fully accept herself, as Shinji is almost an exact copy of her Id/Shadow.

I don't think it really matters. They totally COULD have a healthy relationship with each other, but the majority of the show is purposely focused on them not being able to.

When they demonstrate some ability to go beyond their basic selfish desires, Evangelion ends. There's a possibility these two fundamentally broken ppl can actually work on their individual issues and serve a healthy human connection. And that's all that really mattered. No matter how fucked up you are, you can still work on yourself and truly connect with others.

But Shinji was the boy most relevant to EVA piloting, which is a big deal for Asuka. Not saying she didn't have some actual attraction towards him tho.

>another thread about people inventing headcanon for eva

"My shitty anime doesn't matter. Fuck the canon"
-Anno, probably

But character discussions are the best thing about the show here on Yea Forums. Sure beats discussing irrelevant sci-fi bullshit like "what AT fields really are" or minutia about the background of the series

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They look like best friends. Like Shinji and Rei.

it's misato's fault that things went bad. asuka needed more help and care than shinji who was actually doing pretty well for a while and was becoming a competent pilot, but misato's complex about men forced her to fixate on shinji and his approval

It sucks for Asuka, since she was clearly Misato's unfavorite kid of the two and knew it.

Shinji's sync score goes higher than Asuka's, so Misato announces it in front of all to congratulate Shinji while not thinking about how Asuka would take not being the best anymore after training her whole life for it.
Misato sobs over anything bad possibly happening to Shinji but nearly let Asuka get killed by having her go too deep in the volcano past safety limits.
When Asuka has her period and is clearly starting to spiral downward, Misato just ignores it.
When Asuka runs away and then is hospitalized, we see no emotion from Misato about it, and once Asuka wakes up all she gets from Misato are orders to go fight a 1 v 9.

Nah, Shinji. If he had simple been a better and more uplifting person he could have kept Asuka from going into standby mode.

my fukkin brain

she's literally the redheaded stepchild of her actual family AND their pseudo family

>and no real love while growing up
it feels kinda like this one gets glossed over a lot. it's not as present in the series as kyoko's death, but her disastrous relationship with her stepmother and her distant father probably did almost as much damage in the long run

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And in the manga she just plain had no father - Kyoko had divorced, her ex-husband had a child with another woman, so Kyoko in bitter response went and had her own test-tube baby from a male sperm doner.

She's a bitch with mommy/daddy issues. What else is new with NGE.

Thanks for bringing footage in, bless you

Thread closed

I don't think it's
>something you should be good at
but rather something you want to be good at/feel you need to be good at, for some reason or another. There are probably a lot of people who "shouldn't" be doing what they are doing but are doing it for reasons that overshadow rationality.

Wouldn't say toxic, when it's mostly immature confusion.

I think the reason why he wants her to wake up at the beginning of EoE is because he wanted her to be there to take on the responsibility instead of him, as he is essentially the only pilot left.

It's more selfish than caring, that's why he gets upset and jerks off, cause he doesn't give a fuck about her/sees her as some sexual object.

You nail it with
>Shinji demonstrates interest in Asuka as emotional support, but he does that with everyone.
This what causes me confusion with people trying to say that Shinji and Asuka was just love. I think it's important that Shinji knew he was weak and would always be the first to admit it, whereas Asuka was at all times trying to demonstrate strength of some sort. It was because Shinji knew the reality that she was just as weak, that made him sometimes feel like he owed her the attention.

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dependency isn't good.

It was in the Directors Cut. The Directors Cut is definitely the best version to watch, especially for the later episodes that were pretty rushed. I always recommend it to people who are watching it.

What responsibility? He thinks Angels are extinct and Nerv is over just like the bridge crew do, he's never going to be useful for anything again, he's waiting to be decommissioned and sent away. He doesn't predict that they're going to be invaded.

kotaku.com/the-next-evangelion-movie-will-be-out-2020-1827741974
The years-in-the-making Evangelion: 3.0+1.0 finally has a release year. The movie is slated for 2020 in Japan. Currently, the movie does not have an international release date.
twitter.com/evangelion_co/status/1108247545577246720

>be a doctor who deals with mental illness
>marry the husband of a patient
>he has a daughter who had to watch her mother go insane and then was the one to find her body post-suicide
>"GeE, shE SUrE iS a wEIrd KiD, iT'S lIkE ShE'S bEen THroUGh sOme KiND oF tRAumA, gUEss i'LL jUSt iGNorE hER LikE hEr ReAL MoTHeR dId"
Ya, Asuka's childhood was fucked. Her stepmother was a retarded bitch.

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Absolute Terror field = autism

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based

I always saw it that Shinji just wants someone to tell him what to do moreso than wanting someone to take over piloting. It's a big part of his character, that he doesn't make his own decisions and feels more comfortable just following orders. The whole "centre the target, pull the trigger" scene in episode 3 is the perfect summary of this.

Looking at things in terms of Freudian psychology (which Eva loves) you have the Ego, Id and Superego. Shinji's lac of agency means he fails to create an adequate Ego for himself (Ego death is another recurring theme in Eva). In killing Kaworu he follows the logical option, ie the option favoured by the Superego, which governs on pure cold reason. Finally he visits Asuka in the hospital wanting her to take Misato's place as his caregiver, which she obviously can't do. Having no one to tell him what to do, no Ego and having abandoned his Superego, all he has is his Id, which governs instinct and passion, particularly sexual desire and anger. He decides to fap, but this makes him feel terrible, so he stops even listening to his Id.

His psychological breakdown is now complete. When the JSSDF come for him, he does not even listen to the instinct to run. When Misato is dragging him along to the cages, he is barely even mentally present.

still the best eva game

wow superior

nope. shinji is the fucking alpha, he pilots unit 01. she's frustrated because in spite of his eminent status, he prefers not to be the alpha

true in a way, but given eva's power levels you only really need one (the best one) and that is unit 01 and not unit 02.
she was superfluous and she knew it

>"centre the target, pull the trigger" scene in episode 3 is the perfect summary of this
It's a poor example, Ritsuko and Misato are speculating this because they don't get why Shinji is so amenable to becoming their soldier, and Shinji contradicts it at the end, defying orders and charging the enemy with just his knife. It's setup for the more disturbing implication to Misato that Shinji has a joyless life he doesn't value at all. See also everything surrounding the dummy plug incident and demanding to be deployed while Asuka is mindraped, he has the most insubordination of anyone.

Cunny

He wasn't a good person, but was he a bad person?

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I rolled my eyes entering this thread, thinking it was gonna be just our retarded neighbors, but I was greeted by this rational, well put message. Thank you kind user.

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not really asuka self worth was tied to her abilities. shinjis a bitch who needs others to comfort him while ignoring others struggles. asuka is deeply insecure and I think that comes from within.

never noticed that minato still my favorite character yho

Pretend Shinji was a girl the whole time and Asuka was a guy and you'll see it.

Funnily enough I think the tumblr crowd which hates Shinji would excuse most of his actions if he were female.

he was a person, with all that entails.

This. The two girls I've dated acted exactly like her. If only they were as beautiful as her though. Sigh.

Asuka has always redirected her self-hatred onto others. When she instead accepts Shinji and strokes his cheek in a caring manner, the implication is therefore that she has now come to terms with and accepted herself.

i made this yesterday, what do you think?

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Asuka Langley Soryu falls in love with Shinji Ikari.

Unable to confess, she is gifted with by a deus ex machina with Shinji's phone number. Never minding the strange area code, she immediately calls him, and is overjoyed to find out that he has a crush on her as well.

But, the next day, when she recounts the previous day's confessions to Shinji, he only looks at him with a perplexed expression. After some investigation, she finds out that the boy she called is not the same boy she fell in love with. In fact, he doesn't exist in this universe at all. He is Shinji's alternate universe counterpart, who has fallen in love with Asuka's own AU self, Asuka Shikinami Langley, who is perfectly aware of his crush.

Hijinks ensue as the two strike up a deal to give each other their darkest, most private secrets in order to equip the other with the weapons they need to conquer the heart of their other selves. While the two chase their respective loved ones, THIRD IMPACT ensues as they begin to fall in love with each other instead and question the KIMOCHI WARUI.

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FINDS

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Already a thing.

fictionpress.com/s/3206139/
youtube.com/watch?v=JcVGDV67L-g
youtube.com/watch?v=o_rz1bluG_k
knowyourmeme.com/memes/keit-ai-finds-a-way/
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WebOriginal/KeitAi
webtoons.com/en/challenge/keit-ai/list?title_no=36825

you can't.

MODS

>tfw anno created keit-ai

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Keit-Ai has been made into:

>a wiki
>a fanfic
>a fictionpress story
>a manga
>a meme
>a series recognized by TV Tropes
>an anime preview
>an anime episode
>an anime series
>an honest-to-goodness anime movie
>Oscar considered
>a critically acclaimed box office success in Japan
>a worldwide hit
>the no. 1 highest grossing anime film of all time
>a certified fresh movie on Rotten Tomatoes
>a live-action film

Meme magic is amazing.

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Sometimes I wonder whether the base feeling isn't that competitiveness but just wanting to be a working part of something larger. It's probably pretty easy to twist that into "and if you're going to do something, you should be the best and the envy of those around you", but I think that's more the kind of thing that will get pounded in through our formative years, through parents, those around us, or trauma.

But I think you nailed it, user. It's not just the "oh she's so competitive", it's the space left behind: what do you think will happen if you don't achieve it? What's left of you? Are you anything? Who will love you like that? It can all get tied up into knots between ambition, fear of abandonment and resentment for what you've already suffered.

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These she is honestly a massive narcissitic bitch with BPD, and if EVA were a romance; and Shinji gf'd her he'd be fucking miserable

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I thought that was clear from her demands for Shinji's attention and insistence on including Rei in group things. She wanted a friendly rivalry and catty girltalk in the lockers.

Shinji ends up rebelling against what he's told to do, because in the end he's not really doing it for himself. And yet, he still goes back to it again and again. The fact that he's so regularly insubordinate doesn't disprove what I said, it just demonstrates that it's not what Shinji really wants.

Remember the sandbox scene in EoE? It's a metaphor for his time as a pilot. He joins two girls who look like Asuka and Rei, and builds a sandcastle with them while being watched by a woman who looks like Misato. When they all leave and Shinji is alone in the playground, he gets upset and kicks the sandcastle down. He only built it because it's what others were doing. Once he's alone, it's of no value to him because he only did it for the sake of others, but gets no satisfaction from it himself. For an even simpler example, there's the cello. Gets told to play it, so he plays it. No one tells him to stop, so he keeps playing it. Does he enjoy it? No. Kaji asks him if he has a hobby or something he enjoys doing for himself and he says no.

he wanted to be good
or don't be

Shinji always argues with authoritative orders, from the first episode to Misato's last words to him in EoE. But he always responds to moral appeals and reasoning. That's not wanting to be jerked around, that's wanting to do right and wanting a case for it being right.

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She wanted to prove herself that even if Kaji didn't like her she's atractive and boys want her, Shinji was like: "What the fuck is that bitch scheming now?" and rejected her, as result Asuka was like: "Nobody loves me, even that pathetic autist rejected me. He really believes is better than me? How arrogant?"

I like it, user

>Real german girls are shit and obese
That's not even remotely true. Maybe in the north.

Based and assburgerpilled.

Asuka's character type is actually a thing. The prideful, overbearing, self-assured girl that's actually just hiding how much she hates herself.

How did she manage to show up eight episodes into the series and COMPLETELY steal the show bros?

Exactly. And they'd call anyone who liked Asuka an abusive misogynist.

>caring what tumblrites think
>caring what westerners in general think
Learn from the Japs.

Because she's a hot, brash redhead that everyone wants to fuck even though she's only 14 and German.

>only

She's 13

>the tumblr crowd which hates Shinji
They like him in the context of KawoShin though. It's funny. I've seen people who post nothing but yaoi fanart of those two turn and say Shinji shouldn't be with Asuka (Shinji/Asuka is invariably the ship they hate most) because he's a misogynist and a horrible person, etc, and then go right back to posting fanart of him.

It's like his shitty behaviors are acceptable if he's gay, but if you put him with Asuka then he's straight, so actually he's a horrible person. Perfect encapsulation of the tumblr mindset.

She turns 14 during the series

Isn't the day she gets mind-raped her birthday? Happy birthday Asuka!

No. Her birthday happens around the time Shinji was stuck in Eva01 for a month

someone help me out here. didn't asuka die in the suit before instrumentality? how did she then return after this. does this mean formerly dead people can regain life such as Misato.? I feel like I'm missing something here.

It's never explained. Maybe if you're recently deceased your body can still get tanged

Everybody that died in NERV was tanged with ghostrei near them

Some say that mirage of Rei (also known as Quantum Rei) that appeared in the beginning of the series is actually salvaging souls through time and space after 3I happened.

phew thought we lost the og waifu misato for all those years

shut up Usagi, shes just another girl with daddy issues

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There is no guarantee she would want to come back even if she could.

good posts

Wrong. She has people issues.

Let's just boil down hypothetical person's issues that came from years of physical and mental abuse from his/her father every day he got home drunk as just daddy issues. Wow! We are so advanced as species when we do that.

An orphan with affection issues who can't find worth in her own life and needs others to affirm her existence.
She gets pissed off at Shinji for being a worthless cuck making barely any effort to gain the love and respect of those around him and who yet manages to pull shit off due to deus ex machinas.
At the same time she's compelled to gain also his respect because of his gained importance, when she sees something brewing between the doll and him she goes nuts and gets in the middle because she's unable to accept being second to someone as shallow as Rei for someone as stupid as Shinji, but she still finds the guy insufferable, hence her instability.

Misato is confirmed for collected by Rei. Remember in EoE, when she looks up at something off screen and starts talking to Kaji? That was Rei, appearing to her as Kaji, same way she appeared to others as people they loved. Pic-related is further confirmation.

>lance pieces unit-02's eye
>asuka's eye explodes
>unit-02's arm is destroyed
>asuka's arm splits in hand
>unit-02 is ripped apart, disemboweled and cannibalised by the mp evas
>"d-do you think she's okay?"
Ya, she died. As shown above though, Rei was collecting people who died before instrumentality, so Asuka's soul was collected. She was then able to find the personal will to carry on and returned from instrumentality, although she did it some time after Shinji did.

Ironically, by starting Third Impact and instrumentality, and then allowing people to return, Shinji may well saved Misato, Asuka, Ritsuko and the rest of the NERV staff from death. If you take the appearance of Ghost Rei in episode 1 to mean she was collecting people from that point onwards, it could even be possible for Kaji to come back. Well done Shinji, you saved everyone!

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>asuka's eye explodes
nah that was her imagination, it only damaged the nervous connection between unit-02 and auska's body, so she lost vision. it only "felt" like it exploded and blood was pouring out of the socket

This always confused me so much. It's very explicitly established that the connection between the EVA and the pilot isn't real, but it makes no sense for EoE to show Asuka's imagining her injuries. And after the impact, she has real bandages rapped around her would be injuries.

Her injuries could be real and caused by the high sync ratio or the Lances, but they don't really go into abnormalities like that

I thought it happened closer to the end of the series since it's in December.

lol in the first episode Rei is near death due to all the injuries she sustained the amount of damage and pain experienced is proportional to how synced they are to the eva. Asuka's damage was not just in the eye when all those spears went through her, she definitely died.

are you sure that was ghost Rei in episode 1? Why couldn't that just be a different version of Rei?

Thank God even if best girl ended up staying in instrumentality (she probably will if Kaji is there) I'm happy she got some reward for all her sacrifices throughout the series.

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Episodes 22-24 happen in very quick succession. Less than a week, I think.

>why couldn't that just be a different version of Rei?
Like what, user? There's only one version of Rei that can fucking phase in and out of existence like that one does, and it's ghost Rei.

>why they are the way they are
i don't know. help me out please

some combination of inferiority complex and collectivism?

>she has real bandages rapped around her would be injuries
You return as you "imagine yourself in your heart" and Asuka believed herself to be injured. Therefore, if she returned she would return with these injuries.

Jeeeesus Christ. Eva never stops does it? I wish I could see how things are done internally

she did not phase out of existence, one moment she was there the other she is not. She could have ran away while Shinji wasn't looking.

Given that it mirrors the ghost Rei scene in EoE exactly, and given that only one Rei is ever active at a time, it's literally the only sane possibility user.

>She could have ran away while Shinji wasn't looking.
But the only Rei in existence during that time was Rei II, which was on a gurney at NERV

again it could just be foreshadowing she doesnt NECESSAIRLY disappear. The camera turns and she is gone you could be right but it's not clear that she is ghost Rei.

Rei's physical body has been injured for days at this point so that's not what happened.
It's one of those things that you can never say with certainty because it doesn't make a huge sense for the same type of Rei that collects souls in EoE to appear in ep 1 there and also at that point of the production they did not have an exact plan on what would happen and a bunch of the things changed in the second half. Her appearance there could have been a set up for a different payoff that we never saw and it just kind of works retroactively with third impact Rei.

where do you get this idea that only one Rei can exist at a time? Did I miss some plot element that proved there could only be one at a time?

Why believe there are multiple alive Reis when the show never even implies this to be the case? What it does imply is that whenever a Rei dies, a replacement from the Dummy System is activated and an (imperfect) soul transfer occurs

not really, all it implies is that there are multiple Rei clones. We never see more than one Rei at the same time but it's more than possible that there is and the reason they were going to use the injured Rei is because she was synced

>in the first episode Rei is near death due to all the injuries she sustained the amount of damage and pain experienced is proportional to how synced they are to the eva
Damn the answer to eva's questions are always in the first episode.

>Asuka's damage was not just in the eye when all those spears went through her
? The only physical damage we see are the eye and the arm, which are hit by spears. When she's eaten out, we don't see damage, but after she gets impaled like crazy, we see the appropriate damage damage on her 3.33 costume

>You return as you "imagine yourself in your heart" and Asuka believed herself to be injured. Therefore, if she returned she would return with these injuries.
If she didn't sustain the injuries before hand then eva is the most consistent anime ever. Which is saying much but

That's a much bigger jump than believing it's instrumentality Rei phasing in and out (which is something we know she can do). There's no good reason to believe in it, all you're saying is "it could happen" even though no implication about it is made

but how did she go back in time lmao. Time travel is not a theme of the show and by that logic Abe Lincoln could escape instrumentality.

It is explicitly explained that all the other clones are just meatsuits that need the only active soul(which is in the currently active or dying Rei) transferred to them to function. So no, there is no way to have two or more physical Reis that walk around and do stuff at any given time

so she travelled back in time couldn't any human that lived be put into instrumentation then?

>some combination of inferiority complex and collectivism?
Not the most consistent thing among females (including animals). But that does churn out bitches like Asuka.

The main reason why they are the way they are is to serve as a compliment to men (while men serve as a compliment to women). If we're to believe why bullshit biology and psychology tell us, god or science created men and women in a way to be dependent on each other to procreate and ensure their survival (of their genes and maybe their personality). Nature has the men rely on women to birth and raise the children, and has the women rely on men to give them a baby and protect the woman and the baby. Everyone is able to survive through the baby and feel really good while doing it.

But Asuka and Shinji are so fucked that they can't follow these roles (Shinji as the leader/protector and Asuka as the mother/lover) but STILL want the the other to perform their traditional gender role, the role of the other gender, and help their sense of self survive

nah Asuka clearly implies she wants Shinji to act like a man yet cuck Shinji refuses. Asuka is doing nothing wrong by demeaning him when he refuses to grow up and act like a social retard.

>clearly implies
female detected

I just have an image in my head of Rei running away as soon as Shinji looks away, like Mr Burns with the smokebomb in the church in that episode.

She doesn't imply. It's explicit. Said in original. Doing "right and wrong" is probably the wrong way to think of Asuka and Shinji. They're doing the human thing to do

He looks away for a split second and she disappears. Are you suggesting she's f-fast?

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Name one other possibility, given that the only active non-ghost Rei at the time is in a hospital bed wrapped in bandages, dressed in a plugsuit.

which version of the eva movie should i watch? The End of Evangelion: Renewal?

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being a cuck isn't necessairly "wrong" but you're never going to meet a cuck who is living a happy fulfilled life.

You should watch
>Hideaki Anno presents, Evangelion: The End of Evangelion: Revengeance, the blu-ray Director's Cut release

Too much rebuild on the brain, user. Rei disappears after episode 6 in the original series for a while.

What's so hard to get about this? We don't even get a cockpit shot of Asuka after all the spears went in, but she'd be just as much of a mangled mess as EVA-02 was. The injuries are real. They always were, increasingly so as your sync ratio goes up (hence in episode 2 for example, when Sachiel breaks EVA-01's arm, Shinji feels pain but his arm doesn't break because his ratio is low).
In the whole fucking show pilots express pain when the Eva sustains damage. That's because of this.
Rei+Lilith is almost omnipotent, we already see her travelling through time and space just in EoE (appearing in front of Misato right before her death, doing the same for Ritsuko, appearing before everyone during Instrumentality, appearing in the final scene after the physical form of Rei+Lilith is already dead).
If you're going to be a lorelet who doesn't understand anything, even things clearly explained in the show, at least don't phrase your posts so arrogantly while you do it, as if the people spoonfeeding you are the ones who don't know shit.

welp that's a copout makes all the characters lives and deaths worthless. Not your fault though if what your saying is true that's just awful writing. Abe Lincoln confirmed for instrumentality.

>Mark II; Electric (Not) Boogaloo

I don't know about that. I've been associated with a cuck long enough to get to know him. But being a cuck is unnatural and cucks shouldn't be cucks. But people are people and will continue to fuck themselves and others up. Just like Shinji

Watch an lp of Girlfriend of Steel

Not him, but plot always came after themes and characters in Evangelion.

Seele's intention's for mankind were generous and good in their view. They wanted to liberate humans from painful human condition of not being able to understand eachother completly at cost of taking away individuality. Shinji, even after all the pain he got from interacting with others, still decided that Instrumentality was wrong.
This core theme of Evangelion: even though humans can hurt eachother, sometimes they choose not to and that makes it all worthwhile. Basically, we mustn't run away from human interraction.

Otherwise, you end up as Gendo, an autist who cannot bring himself to connect with other people and acts in cold and indiffirent to anyone that doesn't look like his waifu.

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End as the boss of the evangelion who manages to deceive SEELE? interesting

also in ep 18 you can see visible finger marks and compression on shinji's neck when bardiel is choking unit 01

>First thing we see of her is her tight 14 year old cunny panty shot

Based

Gendo had a good run, but failed when Rei gave him middle finger and decided that his son was more worthy of her power than him. And also SEELE's version of 3I got initiated, not Gendo's.

>gendo is just an autistic reifag
Woah

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lol Gendo was cold and indifferent to Rei. He literally treated her like dog shit and would have been fine killing her clones as many times as necessary to return to his wife. I hope this post was ironic if Gendo was affectionate to Rei at all he wouldn't convince her she's expendable and can be replaced.

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>cold and indifferent when his every single action and coldness towards Shinji is because of his plans for his wife and Rei

I wouldn't say just Reifag, but a misanthropic otaku neckbeard who glorifies his waifu in general.

Remember Gendo smiling when talked to Rei? Yea, he hasn't been like that with anyone else.

He did say Rei will have to pilot if Shinji didn't but that was part of his guilt-trip plot.

He was protective of her most of the time and pretended to care. He didn't 'care' he just didn't want to risk any failures and constantly transferring souls to new clones. Turned out there is a good reason for that because Rei III was almost immediately off the Gendo train unlike II

The virgin Rei II
The Chad Rei III

>Yuifag
Fixed. Rei's entire existence is part of his Yuifaggotry.

>him and Fuyutsuki risk their lives in a plan against the fucking Illuminati all due to Yuifaggotry
How good was that pussy? Also I almost half-believe Gendo's final words to Ritsuko (according to the manga), she's probably the woman most like Yui in the entire world

>would have been fine killing her clones as many times as necessary
More complicated than that. Remember when he ran out and burnt his hands to save her after the activation test went wrong? Remember how he risked Unit-01 (ie Yui) in combat against the 16th Angel to try and save Rei, something he wouldn't do for Asuka against the 15th?

Gendo became attached to Rei II. He admits as much to Fuyutski, who says it was only to be expected. Unfortunately for Rei III, he decides not to repeat this mistake and becomes a lot more creepy and molesty with her.

>becomes a lot more creepy
ehhhh
>and molesty
No. That was a one-off because he needed to put Adam into her womb.

yup you two are the only ones who aren't delusional. If your idea of loving someone is sending them repeatedly to likely death, purposely socially isolating them and preventing them from making relationships with others is expressive of love or fondness then you guys need better friends and family. Just a reminder that he literally kept her in a room with a kitchen, bed and a broken pair of his glasses for all of her existence.

makes sense they were both bitches with reckless disregard for those closest to them. They care more about "science" than there relationships.

>
nothing to do with Shinji, Gendo is so much better to Shinji then he is to Rei lmao. He allows Shinji to leave if he does not want to help and admits that he loved Shinji despite being distant before he dies.

except ritsuko's breakdown was her sacrificing her work and her position within nerv over her frustration about her relationship with gendo? did you fastforward through those episodes?

God damn boys! How the fuck can she even stand a chance?!

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Shit, I think he felt the same about her mother at the time. And maybe he wasn't warmer to that first genius he hitched his wagon to, she's just the one he romanticized after she was gone.

She can’t. Anybody with a brain would choose Misato in an instant and only take Asuka as a leftover piece of smelly meat.

There's a few shots with Rei III with Gendo that are spot on recreations of shots in previous episodes of Gendo and Ritsuko. There's also Gendo sending Ritsuko to the SEELE interrogation in Rei's place. This suggests Rei III has taken Ritsuko's place in Gendo's affections.

Groping her breast and sticking his hand into her womb is just making that subtext explicit. EoE has a fairly consistent theme of making subtext explicit (eg Shinji fapping over Asuka, Misato kissing Shinji).

LOL Ritsuko was a spiteful bitch who got mad that Gendo was not truly attracted to her. Like the kind rational person she is she murdered all of Rei's clones as a response to this.

Gendo had to send Rei to likely death because SEELE would be on his ass if he didn't.

Rei didn't mind her apartment. She kept it like that room inside Dogma.

He doesn't give a damn about Shinji and has problems interracting with him. He only called Shinji when it was absolutely necessary because he feels uncomfortable with him.
He doesn't want Rei to leave because he is a creep and neither does Rei want to leave.

If anyone is leftover it's Misato, as she is Kaji's used goods and christmas cake too.

>This suggests Rei III has taken Ritsuko's place in Gendo's affections
Gendo has no affections apart from Yui. Everyone else is just a tool.

... yes, that's the point? it shows that the relationship affected her much more deeply than her professional pursuits did? yui sacrificed her relationships in pursuit of her life's work while ritsuko sacrifices her career and her life's work over her relationship falling apart

why not both, faggots? Imagine getting to be in that hot spring with those two? 5 Minutes in there and I would die happy.

She did it out of spite.... She was clearly a miserable person. It's clear from the show she didn't even enjoy her work so she didn't sacrifice anything. Should have just killed herself instead of all the Rei clones. Also Yui was a terrible person, honestly worse than Gendo.

Can't blame him.

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god FUCK YUI how did she possibly think what she did was a good idea. She caused basically every issue in the series.

I use the phrase "Gendo's affections" loosely. The two characters he is closest to are Ritsuko and Rei, and he treats both of them like shit. He seems close to Fuyutski, but he was press-ganged into working for him on threat of death, so... yeah.

She's best girl

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In EoE, that is. In the TV ending he wins.

It was a good idea for her.

Get some sad intellegent guy to fall in love with her, he becomes totally dependent and she becomes his only reason for living, then drive him fucking crazy by putting your soul into a giant robot-monster so that he carries out some instrumentality plan all so you can get into space.

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Rei and Yui are the absolute worst girls so it's fitting.

The only good thing to come out of Yui is Shinji.

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Wow, she was really playing the long game

It's cute as a crackship, but the only ship that I want to end up together is Shinji and Kaworu.

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Morally, Yui is by far the worst person in eva. Seconded only by her husband, maybe Shinji living with his teacher was for the best since he would have turned into such a little douchebag if he grew up with them.

Hot.

I think Ritsuko is significantly worse than Gendo. Although Gendo abuses Rei, he does it because he wants to return to his wife who abandoned him. Ritsuko however get's assmad for being a side bitch and decides to kill all the Rei clones because of muh feels. Also SEELE is pretty fucked up but at least they THINK there helping the human race

>kill
they aren't alive

>Not wanting to kill all the Rei clones
Ritsuko is a hero.

The Rei clones have no soul, so its not really killing anything. She was just sabotaging Gendo's plan in the event Rei-III died.

Showing it off in front of Shinji however is just a total dick move. Like, was she getting off on the idea of upsetting Gendo's son - even though Gendo doesn't give a crap about Shinji?

if it was the right thing to do why did she wait until she got cucked considering she knew about this for months at a minimum. Also what did doing this accomplish? All it did was sabotage Gendo from getting to his wife (whatever you think of his actions this is a bitch move.)

Good. Yui is a cunt who put her son through the worst emotional pain imaginable cause 'lol I wanna live in space forever'.

Ritsuko truly is a hero.

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Being sent to testify before SEELE in Rei's place is what pushed her over the edge.

Speaking of which, WHY did she have to be naked again? I don't get it.

Because SEELE wanted to humiliate her.

it's symbolic

I get that, but its still weird to just demand someone be naked for a hologram talk and have terms accepted.

So could SEELE just order all of NERV to go to work naked and Gendo would have to force the staff to comply, no questions asked?

such a strange outlook. There's no nobility in taking that kind of vengeance Gendo was only malicious to Rei (Ritsuko clearly never gave a shit about Rei or ANY of the Eva pilots) and Gendo's malicious actions were because he was using her to reunite with his wife. Gendo is an asshole who did evil things in order to see his lost love. Ritsuko did evil things because of muh feels. However Yui is probably the most stupid and selfish character in the series

nah SEELE is some illuminati freemason shit. It's clear there both a political conspiracy and a religious group. Those sorts of groups do weird shit in real life so I think it just mirrors some of there strange rituals.

>and have terms accepted.
they aren't partners or business associates, what is nerv gonna do?

yes they are lmao SEELE is paying for NERV's shit. This is why NERV has to attempt to trick SEELE in order for Gendo to return to Yui.

>Ritsuko clearly never gave a shit about Rei or ANY of the Eva pilots

She doesn't interact or talk directly about them much, but she does at least have a bit empathy for Shinji and Asuka's situations from some of her dialogue. She isn't actively out to make them suffer.

as in, they are not in a relationship with mutual negotiating power

Threadly reminder, they deliberately conceived Shinji on the day of Second Impact.

Second Impact was 13 September 2000, Gendo left the Katsuragi Expedition the day before.

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Interesting stuff.

kinky

Well that is messed up.

Could also chalk it up to "survived the Apocalypse sex" or "I just killed half the world and told them a meteor did it lol" sex.

You're reading far too much into the voice actor's birthday and a Gerry Anderson reference.

yes they are though if Gendo really wanted to he could ruin all of SEELE's plans so they don't have him completely in a corner

Knowing those two and their weird fucking beliefs, it's probably something along the lines of
>if we kill half the world and conceive at the same time, he will ABSORB THEIR POWER

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Seele think humanity is doomed, they were at the end of their potential anyway, they'll be killed by the Angels or never recover from the effort to beat the Angels and die slow on a half-ruined mudball, and Yui was with them. But she's also the person that Rei is sort of like and can't make a values judgment about what humans should be, if it's right or wrong, if Seele should be deciding. So she manufactured a judge. She put him in the world she made to see it and decide if any of it was worth having, she made sure he'd see some things, she arranged events so he'd be involved and his feelings would impact them, and she made an eternal proof of mankind's existence that would be left over any way he ended up deciding he wanted to live..

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nope she left her kid to go to space. Gendo and Shinji both got rekt by this

no she's not but she never takes a moral action just always goes with the flow then goes phsyco when she gets cucked

Damn you guys demonizing Yui. She didn't know all these stupid characters were gonna act stupid and ruin their lives. Her motivation for getting in the fucking robot was to become a tool for humanity to go past what it already was and be a memento of humanity's strength. In this convo they talk about the Eva's purpose of transcending humanity (most likely to resemble the old gods) and Yui and Fuyu talk of leaving a mark of human existence (and by extension all the trials that humans, the trials that make up humans and the show).

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He could've been best dad

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>She didn't know all these stupid characters were gonna act stupid and ruin their lives
Then she doesn't know her own husband well at all, and seems to think her 3 year old son will take her disappearance well while being raised by said husband.

And she never told him at all what she was doing.

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leaving your child and husband WITHOUT TELLING THEM to go into space for epic gamer points is stupid and selfish

Gendo was the best part of Raising Project.

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This has no bearing on Yui's possible intent in NGE, manga Unit 01 never leaves the solar system. I just love Gendo's face.

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>So she manufactured a judge.
Holy fuck everything makes some sense now.
Yui is both batshit insane AND has a gigantic ego.
She wanted herself to be immortal proof of humanity AND make her son its savior in one fell swoop.

that's sweet in a way

>She wanted herself to be immortal proof of humanity
Not a horrible pick, even if she chose herself. She's supposed to be one of the smartest people to have ever lived

I love how confused he looks holy shit

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Good to see Gendo supporting his future son in law Kaworu's perversions.

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I can see her sneaking out of bed at 2 in the morning to loom over a crib and nod to herself.

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What a bizarre and unreasonable thing to say to a child

Asuka
>Emotionally needy.
Rei
>What are emotions?
Shinji
>I hate emotions.
Gendo
>Get in the fucking robot.

Eva tends to make this kind of scenes where a character says something 'cool', but if you think about it for more than a second you realize that person's actually fucking terrible. It's great

this post hahahaha

Interesting coincidence, but as points out it is just a coincidence.

I honestly don't think Gendo was all that cruel to Shinji. Rei however he was a complete douche bag especially considering she was partially formed from his wife's soul.

Gendo ditched a crying Shinji at a train station when he was 3-5 years old, then manipulated him into fighting alien monstrosities with his life at stake 10 years later.
How is that not cruel?

The worst he did to Rei was create her.
The two are actually seen having conversations with smiles on both their faces.

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LOL he left Shinji because he wanted to reunite with his wife (clearly a bad father) but he created Rei just to sacrifice her as well as tell her that shes replaceable. He leaves her in a room with nothing in it keeps her socially isolated then replaces her when he forces her to sacrifice herself. Plus sexy time with Rei 3. He allows Shinji to leave but then he returns of his own free will to protect Rei. Gendo literally created Rei just to sacrifice her pretty fucked up.

Gendo had tons of problems but it also wasn't easy running an organization that answers directly to the elders of zion, especially when it's staffed by bipolar/sociopath women and their main combat force is literally children. His final scenes in eoe were nice where he admits he was afraid of his own son, his inability to be act as a father, and that he failed to accept his wife's true motivations. Gendo gets a break by me.

I would actually say Yui is the worse parent - her decision to be 01 was essentially abandoning Shinji in the time of his life he needed her most. Playing god with an angel-knockoff required her to reject the basic roles that a mother should fulfill, and Shinji ended up borderline suicidal and irreversibly broken. One of the bigger themes in nge is that a lot of the problems that people experience can be solved with simple communication and empathy, which was what instrumentality was going to brute force at the cost of everything else in life. Pretty much every character's actions follow this, but Yui takes it further than anyone else and ends up causing Shinji the most pain. The moment where I realized she was a complete piece of shit was the eoe scene where she refused to free herself from the hardened gel shit until only after Asuka died, despite her son being desperate to save her. I'm pretty sure she waited because she wanted to make sure Shinji started instrumentality and maybe the added bonus of him being even more unstable would guarantee that, but she is a terrible mother.

But the overall worst person in the entire cast is easily Ritsuko. She was a cruel self-loathing piece of garbage and a pathetic excuse of a human being that deserved a much worse death. Kaiji was definitely the best, probably the only "normal" person in the entire show.

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I agree with your post pretty much completely but I think you focus too much on Shinji. Gendo was an ignorant parent to Shinji but his treatment of Rei was truly atrocious. The more you consider the way he had her live her life the more you have to be disgusted with Gendo's lack of empathy and manipulation.

>The moment where I realized she was a complete piece of shit was the eoe scene where she refused to free herself from the hardened gel shit until only after Asuka died
I would also like to note that when the 15th Angel shows up, Unit-01 suddenly starts rejecting Rei and the dummy plugs, only accepting Shinji now, which Gendo attributes to Yui.

Meanwhile in the fight with the previous angel, against Shinji's wishes the dummy plug was accepted and Unit-01 nearly killed Toji.

Well I was focusing on Shinji, I don't really care about Rei. That's what over ten years of shitposting in countless eva threads as an asukafag will do to you. But no really Rei's character arc was great and Gendo deserved to be betrayed by her.

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>tfw you'll never experience it for the first time again
I was too naive and young to truly appreciate it

yup very fitting retribution but feels bad that Rei ( I know its a different Rei) had to suffer once more in her transformation

asuka is the most realistic depiction of a teenage girl, with or without the childhood trauma.

>asuka is the most realistic depiction of a teenage girl
I don't know there were some good looking girls in my high school but if any of them looked like Asuka....I'd probably be in jail.

>and nod to herself.
No, she'd be doing this.

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CONGRATULATIONS

>paying full price for heavily used goods
lol @ u

Brainlet here, I think I generally understand the characters and symbolism of EVA, but what was the difference between SEELE's and Gendo's plans? I understand that Gendo's goal was just to see his wife again, at the cost of his son and the whole world, but wouldn't that have been through Instrumentality, the goal of SEELE's plans? What was the mechanism that led to EP 25 and 26; was that not Instrumentality? Who caused the Instrumentality of those episodes? I guess what I'm trying to ask is this: How was Gendo working against SEEELE in any way?

Both do indeed want instrumentality.
They never explicitly describe the differences between their plans, but it was probably a matter of being "in charge" of the process. Gendo most likely wanted a "section" of Instrumentality just for him and Yui, maaaybe letting Shinji in if he was feeling extra nice. SEELE probably want to be as influential in Instrumentality as they already are in the "normal world", but they're more or less okay with how things turn out as far as we can tell.

Sorry guys, was it just that Gendo wanted to be a part of Unit 01 with Yui, allowing them to live forever as a sort of God (the whole "providing proof of mankind's existence") without needing 3I? Was the complementation in 25 and 26 merely a side effect of that?

Alright, that makes sense, he just wanted to ensure that he would see his wife no matter what. In EoE, when Yui appeared to Gendo, was that actually her or just ghost-Rei turning him into Fanta?

I just wanted to say that this is a very solid thread with insightful posts. Thanks guys.

The last two tv episodes and the eoe movie share the same continuity and happen at the same time. Specifically the events of the tv episodes happen during the instrumentality tumbling down scene of eoe, and they appear on the beach after the congratulations scene at the end of the tv episodes. One of the best things about nge isn't the themes or characters or plot, it's the amazing direction of each episode and the show as a whole. It's likely that the eoe movie was not planned until after the tv anime finished airing, and the last two tv episodes were only as fucky as they were because of lack of budget and schedule fuckups. Integrating their events so nicely into the movie, which was probably meant to be the original tv plot, was very well done.

Huh, I had always assumed they were two different eventualities but that makes sense.

I always interpreted it as they are congruent but in EoE Shinji rejects instrumentality while in the TV series he accepts instrumentality

All Evangelion character can be summarised as "needs a hug but won't admit it"

they're two tellings of the same events, it's fiction so you shouldn't really think of it in strict terms about what's 'really' happening across two different works that cover similar ground

The congratulations scene of the tv series is him rejecting instrumentality. Look at it that way and it makes sense.

actually yeah I think you're right, that makes a lot more sense.

the tv ending is nothing but shinji affirming his self worth and the worth of individuality, even the stripped down visual are in service of this, it's incompatible with an acceptance of instrumentality.

The director's cut of several of the last episodes had a bunch of scenes added in to better tie the series to eoe. They are the same story and connect together.

nah

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why is red hair coming off Shinji's chest ??

>The last two tv episodes and the eoe movie share the same continuity and happen at the same time.
no they dont you fucking retard

>being a brainlet
They're the same thing.

wtf i hate anime now

Are you joking? He's having sex with Asuka. She's on top and her hair is hanging down, splayed across his chest.

All the official statements are that they're separate endings. If you watched the TV ending on its own, you would not get some of the key plot points of EoE out of it.

No you wouldn't, that was the complaint, so Anno made EoE. EoTV gives you a few flashes of what's happening in the real world (Misato and Ritsuko's dead bodies for example) and some very loose plot details. It leaves just about everything else ambiguous though.

Anno and Gainax were then sent a ton of complaints and death threats. Anno took the attitude of
>you want a "real" ending, well i'll fucking give you one
EoE was created, and every ambiguous question was answered in the grimmest way possible. EoE is like the most miserable version of what's going on in the real world during EoTV. However, you can still choose to ignore EoE and decide what is happening for yourself.

EoE is compliant with EoTV, but it isn't necessarily the definitive telling of what happened. It is still the only version we got however.

>she refused to free herself from the hardened gel shit until only after Asuka died, despite her son being desperate to save her
I don't know if I'd describe Shinji as "desperate" to save Asuka. He'd decided to fight before he got up there alright, but he never struck me as doing his utmost or anything. He did have to be dragged there by Misato.

I do agree with your overall point though. It feels like she waited until Asuka died too make Shinji as susceptible to instrumentality as possible. If you look at the trippy shit she was saying to him in episode 20 when he was absorbed in the Eva, it's like she was testing the waters to see how receptive he was to the idea.

Anno made EoE because he was severely unhappy with EoTV, not because people forced him to explain an ending he thought was satisfactory.

No, he was pissed off at making EoE. You can see that by the way he includes death threats and vandalism of Gainax HQ in the instrumentality scene. He felt it was too much of a "normal ending" which gives a perspective on what Anno considers normal.
youtube.com/watch?v=rTR0rRkrF8s (skip to 4:30 and put on subtitles)

The comments represented as letters written on cat stationary are all from children talking about how they felt personally moved by the TV ending. The usenet comments and emails are responses to D&R, half of them hate for it being a non-movie and half useless blithering gushing from pseuds.

Never in that blind date does it seem like he hates EoE

You can't.
Asuka is too great for mere mortals to comprehend.

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