Character is a fucked-up psychotic mass-murderer with few redeeming qualities

I can forgive a girl for being a mass murderer, but I can't forgive her for being a filthy slut

Sakura makes it clear she's aware of everything's that's happening and is not being mind controlled. She's just that rotten.

>haha I posted the funny meme you guys, fucking wormslut amirite

>tertiaries actually think the dumb fantasyland scene means sakura wasn't 100% in control of the shadow with full knowledge of what it was doing the whole time, even though Kirei clearly and directly explains it to the reader

You can restore her mind but not her hymen.

>Kirei knowing more about the shadow than Zouken

>kirei, the guy who is literally only alive because he's basically a living mass of grail energy, not knowing how the grail works

>Zouken, the one who fucking turned Sakura into the grail, not knowing how the grail works
Not to mention you're taking that scene with Kirei completely out of context.

Kirei is not an objective participant in this war. He wants the grail to be born more than anybody else. This is why he antagonizes her and tells her she's perfectly aware of what she's done in that scene. Not because he actually knows or cares (what way would he have of knowing whether or not she was conscious for murders he wasn't there for?), but because he's trying to fucking break her so that the grail can be born as soon as possible and he can get his answers.

Stop ignoring the fact that Kirei's actions are driven by his motivations. He's not a narrator or a mouthpiece, he's a character looking to achieve a goal.

Kirei was talking about Dark Sakura, not the Shadow/Angra Manyu.

Literally... Fuck Sakura

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there is literally nothing wrong with killing your enemies

>even though Kirei clearly and directly explains it to the reader
You're right. He says the contents of the grail are what's murdering people.

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Based and wakamepilled

She only really killed Shinji and Zouken and can claim partial credit for Kirei.

That's enough good Karma to leave her in the positive even if she consciously killed off half of Fuyuki.

>killed by the angles and saxons
Fucking speedreaders

It's funny because her regeneration powers as Dark Sakura probably did restore her hymen.

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>there's a CG in the VN devoted to her being utterly confused at her dream being real when Gilgamesh attacks her
>s-she was totally aware, guys!

My main complaint is that Shirou didn't do the right thing. Yeah, dude, I know you're porking her and all that. Oh, don't mind me, just being devoured by THE INFINITE MALEVOLENCE OF THE GRAIL.

You know what I'd say to him?

> "AAAAGGHHHH IT'S EATTINGGGG ME IT'S EATTTTINGGGG MEEE KILL THE BITCH SHIROUUUUUU"

>a fucked-up psychotic mass-murderer
>but she has big ass tits and a smug smile
Sorry bro

Blame Rin and Ilya for being too autistic about their little war game to deal with the greater grail until the end despite knowing its location.

Regen seems pretty inconsistent to me.

It let her heal back from tanking Gate of Babylon and Allowed her to perform heart surgery on herself but then we're supposed to believe Rin with a random knife could have killed her.

Yeah, Shirou doesn't nearly get enough shit. The only character with the right idea in Heaven's Feel is Rin, and even then she bitches out

>random knife

I get where he's coming from, it's just kind of sad to see a guy throw his entire career in life away for some girl. If he was my buddy, I would shake him like chewtoy and scream "SHE'S NOT WORTH IT, BRO"

Well, wasn't that the point? That despite us saying we totally would while we're rational human beings, Shirou did the "wrong thing" under pressure despite him always wanting to do the right thing.

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I think Rin in the top image knew he would puss out. Plus, you don't necessarily have to do it lethally, like what Caster was doing.

In the bottom image it means Sakura will literally be killing people forever and ever and ever and ever.

Being a hero of justice sucks as a career anyways.

Just look at what happened to his father and himself from the future who spent an entire route trying to get him to change careers.

I just hate her cause she's boring.

His career in life completely ruined him. That was the entire point of UBW. This hero of justice schtick is not feasible or rational.

Instead of trying to do something that he cannot possibly accomplish in the way he wants to, he got some perspective in HF and did what he actually could: he protected the girl he loves. He absolutely did the right thing in a shitty situation.

b-b-b-b-based

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Shirou abandoning being a superhero was the correct choice. The lives of strangers don't matter at all - the only ones that do are those of your loved ones. In that sense he made the correct call by valuing Sakura over everything else, especially his naive aimless ideals.

The thing is that his ideal utimately didn't matter, it was a mere borrowed idea that served as a vessel to achieve his ultimate goal of duplicating the situation Kiritsugu's been in while he saved Shirou by trying to be as much like Kiritsugu as he possibly could. In this particular scenario Shirou has become Kiritsugu for Sakura, meaning he abandoned his ideal as soon as he saw an alternative method of achieving his actual goal.

for Alter that's a nightly meal for one across the top there.

I'd take saber as a nightly meal for one if you catch my drift

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>character is a fucked-up psychotic mass-murderer with few redeeming qualities
Based retard speedreader-kun.

F/SN art really shows its age. Why didn't Takeuchi redo it all for Realta Nua.

>it was a mere borrowed idea that served as a vessel to achieve his ultimate goal of duplicating the situation Kiritsugu's been in while he saved Shirou by trying to be as much like Kiritsugu as he possibly could.
More like it's a product of untreated survivor's guilt and PTSD. Shirou would not have this obsession were it not for what happened to him.

Him feeling secure enough to let go of that in HF speaks volumes for how much Sakura's love meant to him. Once he realized just how badly he wanted to keep her safe, he realized he didn't need to keep trying to do penance for a crime he didn't commit. I can't fathom why anyone who likes Shirou would be mad that he left behind an ideal that not only would go on to destroy him, but only existed because of a horrific childhood trauma.

Because Realta Nua itself is really old

Hey keeping his ideal wouldn't be a bad thing in the end as long as he doesn't go as far as archer did, this is shown both in last episode and UBW true.

Honestly, I disagree. I think that if you really look at the totality of the situation, his ideal was never a good thing. It wasn't helping him, it was causing him pain and serving as a constant looming reminder of the fire.

Letting go is the best thing that could ever happen to him. It's nobody's job to save the world: we do what we can, and HF was Shirou doing what he could.

The proportions are terrible. Most of the men have gorilla arms.

His ideal may have not helped him specifically, but it helped other people so it's fine.

This is why I hate how the fanbase embraced Shirou as a hero of justice and that's the only thing they're taking from the story. Being a superhero is "cool", so obviously that's the correct path.

>His ideal may have not helped him specifically, but it helped other people so it's fine.
That's a terrible life philosophy. Kiritistugu's whole arc showed why doing this is a retarded idea.

The thing is, he can help other people without torturing himself. There are all kinds of things he could have done in Fuyuki to make other peoples' lives happier: volunteering, taking up a service job, attending or hosting community activities, etc. Other peoples' happiness doesn't have to come at the cost of his pain.

Me fucking too, user. I feel like it's partially Nasu's fault because he's a godawful writer who tends to flip flop about things that he should stand his ground about, but the fact that people actually bought into this shit about his ideal being "beautiful" is retarded. It's not beautiful, it's the product of him being traumatized and it does nothing but cause him grief.

But it isn't even torture in the first place for someone like Shirou, it's noted in the dream segments that Archer was completely happy with the way he was living his life before becoming a counter guardian, the only reason he decided to turn himself in was because he thought he would be able to continue saving people after death anyway. Even nameless, who is basically archer without having to go through counter guardian trauma thinks of that time as "the good old days".

Why on earth would you use Archer as the yardstick for whether or not living this way was painful? He's warped beyond belief. Shirou and Archer are both horribly unreliable narrators; you can't just take them at their word without looking at the reality of the situation.

The reality in this case, and in every case, is that it fucking sucks to have a past trauma governing every choice you make in life. What Shirou calls an ideal is, for all practical purposes, a result of a guilt he's never resolved. It has nothing to do with saving the world and everything to do with the fact that he can't make sense of why he lived while so many others died.

Have you missed like the whole fate route? While Shirou has survivor's guilt he ultimately accepts what happened in the event, but he never got over it due to fact that he blocks most of the event and never had to confront it yet.

It's been explained that Shirou's wish is to replicate Kiritsugu's expression while he saved Shirou, since Shirou himself thought that Kiritsugu was the one saved instead, making him thin kthat if he achieved what Kiritsugu did he would ultimately save himself. What shirou is afterwards merely reflects his desire, including trying to replicate who Kiritsugu was, being magus and having his ideals.

She burned her own villages to the ground so that her enemies couldn't conquer them.

Shirou has no actual trauma from the event of the fire. He did not event exist for the majority of it. Shirou walked out of the fire toward the end and his first experience as an existance was Kiritsugu's smile. He is best considered as a sentient clay golem designed to fufil the purpose of holding the concept of [all the worlds suffering] that accidentally gained an extremely specific fetish for an extremely rare method for relieving others of their suffering.

>but he never got over it due to fact that he blocks most of the event and never had to confront it yet.
That's literally what I said. The only reason he even has this obsession with being a hero of justice is because he's never actually dealt with his own survivor's guilt.

>Shirou has no actual trauma from the event of the fire. He did not event exist for the majority of it.
You have a really strange definition of trauma if him regularly flashing back to being surrounded by flames and dead bodies does not qualify. Hyper detailed flashbacks are like the hallmark symptom of PTSD.

Arturia was described as a fairly brutal king. She would have to "sacrifice" one village in the pursuit of saving 10 of her villages. Likely this "sacrifice" was draining the villages of supplies and forcing the already scarce food supply down to feed her massive amounts of troops. This was obviously meant to parallel Shirou/Kiritsugu's struggle with utilitarianism.

M-My King did nothing wrong. She good girl dindu nuffin

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I think it gives a wrong impression, it's merely part of his reasoning and the main weight of his desire and the actual reasoning of why he adopted the ideal on the first place was put upon him wanting to be like Kiritsugu, thus taking his ideal. It doesn't seem that it's because he feels guilty about what happened that he wanted to save everyone, but because he wanted to be like Kiritsugu that we wanted to become hero of justice, that's what the scene when Kiritsugu died is about. He didn't fully understand the extent of the ideal he was agreeing to, but over time he refined it and added more of his own reasoning, but it's post-hoc and to claim that his ideal was adopted due to his PTSD has the order of reasoning reversed, though it seems accurate due to both of these things being cause by the same event.

Also if he wanted to become hero of justice because he never faced his survivor guilt then he wouldn't have much reason to want to become hero once he faced his survivor guilt, but that change didn't happen at the end of fate when he actually did face his past.

You shouldn't apply the values of a normal person to Shirou, the fire fucked him up so bad that he is described multiple times to be like a machine. He literally can only feel fulfillment by helping others. If even Tohsaka and even Archer (as Nameless) himself stated being a hero made him happy, we don't really have evidence to believe they felt otherwise.

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>he is described multiple times to be like a machine.
The knife scene in the movie portrayed this really well I think, he literally breaks apart because he can't solve a programming bug.

So I was confused when watching the second movie. When did the original Sakura die?

I think you're reading the text way too literally. He's not any less human just because the fire changed him. He still feels pain, still is better off being free of that pain, and still should seek out a life where he can stay close to the people he treasures. Reducing him to "dude literally a machine" demonstrates a poor understanding of how trauma even operates.

What do you mean? She was always alive.

What happened to Shirou may resemble trauma but he isn't really any more traumatized than Kotomine is. The condition they are affected by are pretty much the same, which even Shirou and Kotomine take note of at the climax of HF.

gr8 b8 m8 8/8

what did he mean by this

Maybe I'm autistic but I can't help but remember a line of dialogue from Zouken talking to Shiro that the real Sakura died ages ago or something. I only saw the movie once though.

Top is Rin speaking as a magus. Bottom is Rin speaking as a human.

You probably are misremembering something.

>fucked-up psychotic mass-murderer with few redeeming qualities
>not a virgin
Go hand in hand?

She's not just a virgin, she's WORMED.

Shinji fucked her

Whatever happened at the end of UBW? Did he become Archer in the end or did he go down a different path?

Sakura is psychologically fucked up due to being tortured for most of her life but she's neither a psychopath nor a mass murderer.

>"You should keep things simple. Like how that shadow isn't Sakura's subconscious. That's what Zouken said, but the shadow is attacking people because that's its nature. Sakura…It's not something she wished for."

>Nasu: Sakura is a symbol of loss and betrayal, like Gilgamesh but in a different way. It was important that people didn't perceive her as a villain, though, because we intended her to be more like a victim or sacrifice.

He went down a different path because Rin was able to see via her master-servant dream what he would become. Archer is from another timeline, where he didn't get attacked by himself from the future (obviously). The path where they converged was likely something closer to HF due to whatever supposed connection he has with the Einzburns.
Isn't it interesting how he dies in the Einzburn castle in each route (though not really in UBW, but basically)?

Basically Rin keeps him in check, which is why it makes sense in UBW she is the romantic partner. She knows Shirou's condition better than he ever could, in both his flawed ideals and his path as a magus.

You can grow your morals back but not your hymen

Shirou was in a catch 22 and could not achieve his ideals either way in HF. If he killed Sakura then he was betraying his ideals by murdering an innocent to save others. He'd turn into a second Kiritsugu who mechanically kills the few to save the many. Shirou instead decided to try and save Sakura as well as as many other people as he could.

The situation is pretty fitting for FSN, since we've been told throughout the VN that Shirou's ideals are impossible to achieve and now we see him in a situation where that's the case.

What I find ironic is that the people who embrace Shirou's ideal so rabidly and embrace the Mind of Steel ending actually don't understand Shirou's ideals at all since he actually betrays his ideal in that ending.

No he didn't. Shirou didn't become Archer in all FSN route

The problem of meeting yourself sorta like time travel and multiple universes combined. Likely Archer's route was the one where Illya was the primary girl

Read the VN, secondary.

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>Likely Archer's route was the one where Illya was the primary girl
This really makes me want to see Archer's origin story. Obviously they had a different Archer there, so everything should have played out quite differently.

It's likely that Rin summoned Saber during his war and Shirou (Archer) summoned an Archer

>Archer's origin story
IIRC his story is similar to Fate route but Saber didn't love him

>"She loses the worms at some point, therefore she retroactively never had them!"
You're missing the point. As long as she had worms inside her at some point, it no longer matters if they had been removed later.
And stop spamming this image every fucking Fate thread, jeez. It doesn't disprove anything.

Nah, Saber and Shirou are ALWAYS a thing, he can't summon anything else.

Archer summoned Saber but couldn't save her. He even says this in the VN.

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>butthurt worm memer

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No, he CAN summon a lot of things other than Saber (fucking Spartacus of all things). It's just that Avalon is overriding all other catalysts and links.

Ok, havent gotten to reading the VNs admittedly

What the fuck are you talking about?

>not an argument

user, you do realize people getting worms is a thing that happens IRL too, right? You just get rid of them, and then life goes on. Trying to make having had worms some kind of character-defining stigma just speaks volumes of how sheltered Fate otaku are.

I remember it being stated somewhere that Spartacus is similar in a way to Shirou, so that if Shirou didn't have Avalon inside him, he could have summoned Spartacus instead.

IRL worms aren't magical evil worms that turn you into a whore.

Imagine Shirou summoning a version of Iri or Kerry

Then stop talking. Secondaries should just shut the fuck up when talking about this franchise. Holy shit they ruin fucking everything about Fate. Fuck you.

Kerry isn't in the throne.

A version of him is.

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But they didn't turn her into Rin.

Wait....so if shirou never becomes archer in any of the three routes, how does archer even exist?

There's more timelines beyond the three routes.

>Originally, he was not a Heroic Spirit.
>An individual who murdered many people as an assassin, but his existence has not been carved in the Throne of Heroes.
>A "mock Heroic Spirit" also called guardian, and someone who does not exists in the proper human history.
>This "if that might have been possible" exists only due the threat that attempts to destroy human history itself from its very foundation... in the Grand Order case alone.
That last part is very important considering we're talking about F/SN and not FGO friendo. Shirou could never summon Kiritsugu.

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>he could have summoned Spartacus instead
>this ugly thing
Holy shit I fucking hate FGO and F/A so god damn much. I literally refuse to believe Shirou would naturally summon that fucking retard of a character.

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Fair enough.

There are more time lines, and Archer apparently lives through each of them sequentially, meaning he remembers vaguely which one he's in, also that he is going through each of them linearly.

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But why did archer decide to travel to this particular timeline instead of going back to his original timeline?

He didn't "connect" with her, meaning that they were probably strictly professional. God I wish we knew what happened to Shirou post holy grail war, we can only pick up bits and pieces.

It will never be better than what you can imagine and will end up being disappointing.

He didn't "decide" to do anything. He was just summoned, he had no choice in the matter.

So he's pretty much Okabe

You're talking about the scene with Rin after Sakura gets GATED by Gil

Sakura died, but that doesn't mean the Sakura that came back wasn't the same one.

He doesn't decide which time-line to travel into. He's acts as a regular heroic spirit (even though he's not) and is summoned each time from the Throne of Heroes but he acts like an esper travelling linearly to different timelines. He's just waiting for the perfect timeline in which he can prevent himself from becoming a heroic spirit by killing himself from the past.

Rin meant that Sakura had received fatal injuries but hastily healed herself to avoid death.

The sakura that came back was a stitched together corpse that only looks like it's living on the outside. She is being held together by the grail within her.

>Spartacus
>retard
You should read LB3 user. He sacrificed himself to protect people. Villagers in this Lostbelt could only learn about "freedom" and "will" all because of Spartacus (Alaya didn't exist before and the ToH appeared after his death). He is the best part of LB3 desu

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Yes, but roughly, her "soul" is the same as the one before Gil kills her

Its just few mentally ill waifufaggots who didnt read the VN. The meme is just forced by few off topic images and miss quotes.

Yeah, Shadow and Dark Sakura are two separate beings. No, that doesnt mean that Sakura still isnt a giant selfish douchebag that doesnt torture her old friends for kicks

>Unlimited Blade Works BD set II: Q: What was the Fifth Grail War that Heroic Spirit Emiya experienced in his lifetime like? Was the Archer summoned there also Emiya?
>Nasu: It was a world where the conditions at the beginning of the war were mostly the same, but something was missing. Shirou summoned Saber and fought until the end, didn't save Saber's heart but understood her, and they destroyed the grail together and parted... that's the image I have.
>Takeuchi: Ahh, so something like a Fate route Good End we didn't make in the game?!
>Nasu: Yeah, probably. After that, it is believed he cooperates with Rin who survived, and heads to London.

>Sakura
>selfish
Looks like you're the one who needs to read the VN.

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>that doesnt torture her old friends for kicks
>GET AWAY FROM FUYUKI WHILE I DEAL WITH THE GRAIL
>come back when she's at her most corrupted

Just post few out of context images secondary. Read the vn

Clearly we have, unlike you.

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>terrified of harming others

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>She has to kill Rin here, just as Rin tried to do to her.
>She tries to convince herself as she opens her palms.
>"Nee-san, you..."
>The shadow doesn't extend.
>She trembles, gaze focused on her weakened sister
All of the day, bro.

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Yes this is the interview I based my response on. It was just like the Fate route but he didn't get to form a connection with Saber. So Archer is basically just throwing a fit and becoming a counter-guardian because he couldn't fuck King Arthur. I don't blame him, I mean look at her.

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I don't like Sakura since we're basically supposed to feel bad for her since she's basically had a shitty life. I hate it when authors attempt to create characters like Sakura to force pity and empathy for the readers, mostly as a cushion for the future shit that she would later do. Maybe Shirou would feel pity for Sakura, but not me. Just because you had a shitty life and got raped doesn't justify you making the lives of those around you and people you don't even know worse or even kill them unjustified. That being said, I particularly enjoyed the normal ending for Heaven's Feel where Sakura basically dies alone, its what she deserves.

Even Archer himself admits that killing Shirou probably won't change anything for him in UBW, and we see that in one bad ending where he kills Shirou and he doesn't pop out of existence.

Archer's main motivation for trying to kill Shirou is self-loathing.

Killing is fine but torturing her is just inexcusable

>kill them unjustified
Yes, killing Shinji, Kotomine and Zouken really was unjustified, wasn't it?

One of those can be cute and the other is never cute.

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Did you forget about the guys who hit on her, and she promptly ate them because they happened to be around?

user, Angra Mainyu is a he.

Sakura wasn't conscious at the time; it was the Shadow that was responsible for those deaths. And the person responsible for unleashing the Shadow is Zouken, so if you want to blame someone for those deaths you should blame him.

>Rin
>Shirou
>eventually Taiga and the whole world
read the vn

Out of those, only Rin counts as Sakura, Shirou dying in Femme Fatale was due to Sakura not even keeping her personality anymore and the last one is just Angra Manyu doing what Angra Manyu does.

By the time that happens, Angra Mainyu has taken over Sakura. Read Femme Fatale (and Fate/Unlimited Codes).

>Maybe Shirou would feel pity for Sakura, but not me.
You rebel, you...

Yeah, right? What an asshole.

Oh bitch please, Sakura not being aware in Femme Fatale is headcanon

>headcanon
Sakura's personality disappearing as AM appears is canon, and it should have happened WAY earlier than it happened.
By the time Shirou finds her in femme fatale she's an empty shell and the VN shows this by her looking almost dead and not even being able to talk.

Where is your PhD in cellular biology?

And what's wrong with that? One of Sakura's most interesting aspect as a character is how she deals with the fact Angra Mainyu fed into her own dark desires to things she wouldn't do otherwise, including attrocities. That dynamic between her own dark thoughts creared from the unfairness life has dealt upon her, and Sakura also wanting to be a good person (even if she has these dark thoughts, and moments of caulessness) makes her an undersfandable, and very human character.

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Zouken is lying constantly because he wants to manipulate Shirou into killing Sakura as he thinks that will cause Avenger to immediately emerge. He first tells Shirou that Sakura is a normal person who isn't involved in the grail war. Later Zouken tells him that Sakura is responsible for all the deaths and that they have nothing to do with him. Only morons take what Zouken says at face value.

Meant for

>He'd turn into a second Kiritsugu who mechanically kills the few to save the many.

You're aware that this is the greatest net good, isn't it? Sure, he might not be happy, but when he saves millions of people by averting a nuclear plant meltdown, I'll be damn glad not to live in Chernobyl II.

Like, Kiritsugu's downing of the plane and shooting of his own father were moments of huge emotional trauma for him. But I for one am glad that we're not living in the insect zombie apocalypse, or have his father running around as a superpowered time vampire (With his little 'oops, I accidentally an entire village').

What makes you think that things would have worked out well in MoS? Shirou would kill Rin and Illya and would be left alone with no support to face off against Gil and Kotomine. MoS Shirou would die and the world would end.

>hurr Dark Sakura is not Sakura
Then what is left, Sakurafags? She's not heroic, she's not villainous, she's not responsible for anything she does or doesn't do. She's just a victim, a glorified plot device so Shirou can look cool. A pitybait waifu. That would make her one of the worst heroine Nasu has ever made.

>Researchers have recently argued that utilitarianism is the appropriate framework by which to evaluate moral judgment, and that individuals who endorse non-utilitarian solutions to moral dilemmas (involving active vs. passive harm) are committing an error. We report a study in which participants responded to a battery of personality assessments and a set of dilemmas that pit utilitarian and non-utilitarian options against each other. Participants who indicated greater endorsement of utilitarian solutions had higher scores on measures of Psychopathy, machiavellianism, and life meaninglessness. These results question the widely-used methods by which lay moral judgments are evaluated, as these approaches lead to the counterintuitive conclusion that those individuals who are least prone to moral errors also possess a set of psychological characteristics that many would consider prototypically immoral.

Pretty interesting that the people who are willing to kill for the greater good are generally manipulative, psychopathic and think that life has little meaning.

Nobody said that, retard.

Sakura exists to be Shinji's cumrag and to remind us how great his sex game is. I mean if you think about it, he basically assisted in Shirou's first time and future sex with Sakura so great because he gave Sakura the knowledge she needed to pleasure Shirou.

It's possible that he'll win. Remember, Archer canonically wins some variant of the Fate route in even worse circumstances.

>Pretty interesting that the people who are willing to kill for the greater good are generally manipulative, psychopathic and think that life has little meaning.
Coincidentally, these are also the the kind of people who run societies. Really makes you think.

>random knife

Are you shitting me?

On another note, I wish Shinji was a real threat at some point. He's always a joke in all three routes, it's a little disappointing Shirou never has to fight someone 'his age'.

See: The Shirou who becomes Archer wins a variant of the Fate route in which fights together with Rin and Saber, just like in the actual Fate route. How the hell is that worse than a Shirou who is alone without a Servant and who was never taught by anyone how to use projection properly?

Because he exists to job and after you finish the VN you just want to kill him harder in all three routes.
Shirou would beat the shit out of him physically, magically and with servants, because somehow he's even worse than Shirou.

Fate had him as the one threat Shirou could legitimately go up against. (him beating Kotomine was just a plot armor asspull)

Exept she's not psychotic mass-murderer.

>plot armor asspull
>lose until Kotomine runs out of grail juice

The Zelretch sword had already transformed back to a knife at that point, speedreaders. Rin lost all hope of beating Sakura in a fight at that point, but managed to appeal to her sense of guilt at the last second.

In Fate, not HF. Kotomine standing in place and lazily flinging grail poop is just dumb after you see what he can do in HF.

Try actually reading the VN. Rin blew up Zelretch to get rid of the Shadows and had an actual dagger she planned to use to kill Sakura.

Though I have no idea how Rin expected a simple dagger to kill Sakura when she had survived getting chopped to bits by GoB even when she was less fused to Avenger.

Yeah, in hindsight, that makes no sense. The man is a MARTIAL ARTS MASTER. I mean, it's plausible he can't move faster than Lancer (in UBW), but there's no reason why he can't beat Shirou to death in Fate with the raw naked power of the human fist.

>On another note, I wish Shinji was a real threat at some point.
Shinji is always a real threat, just not an overt one. Every time Shirou lets shinji go things get worse because of his actions (except the one time Ilya gets him.

Exactly. She needed to use Zelretch to be able to kill Sakura, but blew it just trying to get to her.

She used Zelretch as a bomb; it didn't transform back into a dagger. She actually had a real dagger with her she planned to use to kill Sakura.

I don't remember, was Shirou fine with Rin trying to kill Sakura at the end of HF, because she could have done if she was a tiny bit more of an asshole.

No he wasn't, Shirou simply didn't think that Rin would do it.

Now that's an unresponsible risk to take
>great Shirou, with this weapon we can beat Sakura
>just be careful not to hurt her, Rin
>S-sure
>hides knife
Rin was kinda a bitch in HF, really

It's not as if Shirou had a lot of options at that point. He had to take risks.

He was going to tell her about his Rule Breaker plan, but got Armheimer’s just as he was going to do it.

You will soon discover, if you were not already aware, that the interest in the FSN heroines has long-since passed the threshold into waifuism, and they prefer "pure" waifus. Thus, Sakura being impure triggers them into bouts of autistic rage.

You will see similar complaints from certain Saberfags, regarding her "I know how to please a man" line.

Sakura is pure according to Shirou, though.

does Kiri's suffering ever end?

>fucked-up
>psychotic
>few redeeming qualities

Sounds like we are all akin to Sakura in our own way.

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Because Yea Forums lacks basic human social skills, so to them Sakura is simply culling an excess
But if she's had sex with anyone but them she's faithless and won't fuck them in favor of someone better than them.

really an outdated complaint anyway given realta nua, nasu changed his mind about there even being rape or any sexual contact before shirou

It's interesting to compare Sakura and Illya. Illya happily tortures Shirou to death in multiple bad endings and knows about Avenger and what will happen to the world if the Grail is completed thanks to her connection to it, she even infodumps about it in HF, but she strives to complete it anyway because that's her duty as an Einzbern. But you almost never see anyone calling Illya a psychopath or hating on her for her actions. I bet that this is because Illya never had a dick inside her and thus doesn't trigger purityfags.

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Also Sakura is the most devoted heroine in the game. She's utterly devoted to Shirou and would rather stay forever alone than be with another man, whereas Rin for example moves on after a bit.

>girl mean first, that mean girl really good
>girl nice first, that mean girl really bad
Also known as the "Gian and Nobita principle" or "tsunderefag cognitive disorder".

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Unlimited Codes begs to differ. She's the one in control.

Unlimited Codes is about Dark Sakura at the point where she's more Angra Mainyu than Sakura, retard.

No, it isn't. You should actually play it before posting. She gets called out on it in there. And her route's final makes it clear. Angra doesn't have a personality or identity to begin with.

To those familiar with Monogatari series - Sakura's circumstances in HF are pretty much Black Cat arc. Black Sakura is still Sakura.

F/UC is the game where Sakura is so far gone she can't even remember who Shirou is and whose desire is to emerge into the world. It's blatantly obvious that Angra is in control.

Stop making shit up just because most people are unfamiliar with that game.

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>Angra doesn't have a personality or identity to begin with.
This was always just Kotomine's desperate Christcuck pro-life mental gymnastics. Angra's personality is pure evil, and its identity is senseless murder. This is obvious to literally everyone else in the series from what the grail mud and shadow do. The fact that Dark Sakura turned out to be relatively benign despite being corrupted by literally all evils of the world is irrefutable proof that Sakura is an absolute saint at her core.

Have you read Zero? Angra assumes its host's personality and appearance. Do you think that the Irisviel that appears to Kerry in the end is the real Irisviel?

Sakura doesn't even remember her own name in F/UC. Sure sounds like she's in total control.

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Doing the dirty because "muh bloodline" and moving on are two very different things.
Alter makes it clear in Spark Liners that neither of them will be truly happy without Shirou.

I'd say it's more the imouto/loli appeal if we're talking superficial reasons

B-But she's official!

>Sakura
>a saint
Doesn't bat an eye at Kariya's death, wishes failure on others because her own life is hell, wants her sempai dismembered so he can't be in danger.
Sakura is anything but a saint. The yamato nadeshiko behavior is a front

>Doesn't bat an eye at Kariya's death
Spotted the secondary.
>wishes failure on others because her own life is hell
Nothing wrong with having a bitter thought now and then.
>wants her sempai dismembered so he can't be in danger.
Same as above, plus the fact that it's justified by the trauma that Kariya dying in front of her caused. She's so desperate not to let Shirou die that she feels he would be better off being physically unable to run off and foolishly risk his life. It's love, kindness and concern, even if a bit twisted.

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How many decades will the anti-Sakura and pro-Sakura shitflinging last?
Literally all the threads are the exact same with the exact same arguments and counterarguments explained with the exact same pictures with the exact same filenames posted by the exact same posters
Don't you guys ever get tired of arguing about the same thing with the same people all the time ?

Sure mate.
Lets ignore the entire point of the character and route because you're butthurt over wormslut comments

Concession accepted.

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Are you going to say I'm seething next, shitposter-kun?

Does a rhino shit in her pants?

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>Does a rhino shit in her pants?
>you're either a Rinfag or you have to love my shitty wormslut cunt
No thanks fag, I'll be here with the supeeior purple haired girl

Sugoi taste

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No, he isn't in control. She killed him. Play the game.

To be honest, Sudou appealed to the worst of the Sakura fanbase with this movie by making her look like a victim and erasing anything that made her look bad. I can only hope next movie makes it clear she's a terrible person, otherwise HF is ruined... oh, wait, Kirei's and Illya's characters were already cut, Rin and Shinji whitewashed... it's almost beyond salvation and once Sudou completely whitewashes her it will bury this adaptation entirely.

You're retarded. Sakura overrides Angra because it's in her personality, because they're similar.
No point discussing it with a retard who only cares about Sakura's virgin status and "purity", shitting on what made her a good character.

It's been like this for 15 years. Maybe it'll stop when Fate dies for good.

He just blew the fuck out of your anti-Sakura delusions by adapting the route faithfully, that's all there is to it. Sorry there wasn't an anti-Sakura retard like the Zero or CP director at the helm for once.

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More like he shut on the route and her character. I'm still mad that two scenes with her I loved the most got cut and turned to shit.

And fuck you, you don't deserve to love her at her best if you deny her at her worst. You're the worst type of a fan that shits on a good story and characters in favor of trying to put her up against the other two heroines in "purity"

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>Not gonna lie, Sakurafag here. This is fucking horrible watching Sakura shine and prosper. But in all seriousness we can't let Sudou get the nuclear codes.

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>people provide direct proof
>n-nooo you're wrong because i say so reeeee!

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>uhoh.wav

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She says that she killed Zouken you retard, not Angra. Take your own advice and go and actually look at her arcade mode.

What the fuck are you on about? I never claimed that Sakura was a virgin. You think that Sakura needs to be a psychopathic killer in order to be a good character? The games make it abundantly clear that this isn't the case. Nasu has outright said that Sakura is a victim rather than a villain. Even in F/UK Sakura isn't in control, as those screenshots make abundantly clear.

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I'm ashamed to be put into the same group as you, illiterate retards.

She kills Angra in the end. You should try playing it to the end instead of cherry-picking like you always do. Either way, people who read the novel will always know the truth.

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>Angry manjew takes over her
Worsmlut is truly a whore

"Sakura" at the end doesn't remember who she is or who Shirou is and says that she has waited for a long time to get to the outside world. It's blatantly obvious that it is Angra in her form, just as Angra had appeared in Irisviel's form in Zero. Try working on your reading comprehension.

>read the novel

The Fate/Unlimited Codes novel? For someone who loves to shit on others, you sure as hell don't know what you're talking about.

I thought CG's exist outside the Throne?

>mindfuck Dark Sakura vs Dark Sakura fight
>Sakura killed Angra, guys!
Ironically, that would mean she ended up saving herself and the world completely on her own if that were true. No need to worry about the end of the world any more if Angra Mainyu won't be born, after all.

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Rinfags, everyone.

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Having Saber taken away made me sad.
Shirou should have used Unlimited Burger Works to win her back. Sakura might be better at cooking western-style dishes but there's no rule saying the imitation can't beat the original.

Otherwise, Sakura might end up being distracted trying to win Saber Alter back herself by summoning burgers, allowing Rin and Shirou to prod her butt with the Rule Breaker.

Wrong, try again.

You thought it was a Carrie situation, but it was really me, a vaguely foreshadowed half-naked scrub, who was piloting your girlfriend during this entire rampage.

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She's reliable, not a self pitying mess, has better fashion sense and while she might not be a virgin, she doesn't have worms

Neither does Sakura, as shows. Can't take away the snakes from Medusa, though.

>She's reliable

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secondaries please leave

Powerlevel rankings:
Mosquito > Kuzuki > Rider

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I meant as a person, not a fighter.

Dark Sakura is Sakura, but you can't expect her to be a saint after all she's gone through, much less after killing Shinji, where he went past the point of no return for even her. After that she basically just went full fuck it mode, Shirou remarks how all of the dark Sakura stuff could've been avoided if he had realized she was still herself when she attacked his house to kidnap Illya. Kirei calls her out on faking the separate personality thing, but she literally stopped doing that right after she was called out.

You're a fucking retard, the only questionable things Sakura does are done as dark Sakura, namely the world ending thing and killing Rin. And even then, she wanted to prevent angra from being born before Rin provoked her. Killing Rin isn't really ok, but understandable, and it's a bad ending anyway so it'll probably not appear

>hehe i'm gonna kill shirou, rin and your entire school "for you" even though you're horrified at my behavior and saying no. my uncalled for rampage is causing your sister to want you dead, but i know you want it bby
>i'll get triggered and kill shirou, our only other real ally, if he phrases his support for you in a way i personally don't like, because fuck cis male "sympathy"
>oh, but i'll hit on him behind your back when all is said and done

Bad ends are bad for a reason, and shouldn't be considered while analyzing characterization, especially analyzing the morality and goodness of a character

Personally I think that one is ok to take into account because in the heat of the moment Sakura did want Rin dead, and would've killed her had she been able to, as seen in femme fatale. However in the proper storyline you see how she immediately turns around to liking her when she stops acting like a fucking retard, so I don't blame her for that too much.

>hating on her single minded loyalty and actually getting shit done
I thought one of wormsluts greatest qualities was her devotion. How come Rider's devotion to Sakura is bad?
And unlike Sakura who bitches and moans most of the route for neesan or sempai to save her, until the supposed dark personality takes over, Rider gets shit done and refuses to play victim. Even in her original myth.
Wormfags confuse me

The thing is that the bad end could have easily been a reverse and it'd still be tragic. Rin wouldn't recover if she had actually killed her sister.
They were both retarded, in different ways.

Yeah, though I feel it's more underatandable if you're provoked after pouring your heart out. Their battle is written like shit after Sakura stops telling Rin about all the shit she went through, and even then that was pretty dumb as well, because you could tell Nasu wanted to dump even more garbage on Sakura's past for no reason.

Rider doesn't actually understand Sakura very well despite how adamant she is about screeching that she understands her better than Shirou ever could, and actually makes things worse for her several times. Rider being useful is a result of Sakura directly ordering her to act in certain ways, while her solo actions are often unprovokedly edgy and confrontational, causing needless conflict with Sakura's allies.
>i want to protect sak-
>DID YOU JUST ASSUME UNDERSTANDING OF HER SUFFERING
>uh, n-no?
>GOOD BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE KILLED YOU, YOU FILTHY MALE SCUM
She's basically like a Tumblrina trying to radicalize a fellow rape victim and take her along on a crusade against society, even though Sakura just wants things to go back to normal.

Funny that, because Sakurafags these days come off as the tumblr scum.
Unironically saying that Sakura recognizing her fuck ups after Rin hugs her is "victim blaming"

There genuinely is a degree of gaslighting and exploiting of Sakura's guilt complex in how that scene was written, even if Rin wasn't consciously aiming for it. The writing does a really abrupt 180 there to absolve Rin of all guilt in their conflict, feeling a lot like how Good Ends in Type Moon VN routes tend to suddenly veer off in an unnatural direction to wrap things up more happily. It can be assumed that the unused Rin points in HF were originally used to cause that scene and save Rin in the battle for the sake of a Good End, with her originally dying in the True End.

But HA literally confirms that Rider only chose to be summoned because she understood Sakura perfectly and saw herself on her so she wanted to help her avoid becoming a monster like her

HA fixes a lot of characters who were terribly written in the original VN, such as Caster and Rider.

You should have know from both Fate and UBW that Rin was full of shit.
And the point isn't to absolve her of acting like her dad, the point is to show that Sakura lacked empathy in the way she idealized Rin's life. She assumed Rin had the high life and hid her resentment of that and not being rescued behind the mask of "I- I'm glad neechan is happy and I d-don't want her to save me anyway".
She didnt want a sister, she wanted an anime onee-chan. That changing, as well as Rin not acting like a cunt/magus is what lead to them actually being a proper family after.
Their relationship is the most interesting part of HF character wise. The duality and contrast, and the conflicts, and the fact shitposters have taken to making light of it with shitty waifu wars angers me

So if a wish was just to kill certain people, would the grail actually work as intended because that wish is in line with Avenger's Intent, or would it just be lolfuckyou and blow up the world anyway?

>You should have know from both Fate and UBW that Rin was full of shit.
Rin being a good person in Fate and UBW just made her behavior towards Sakura in HF all the more damning. Shirou was pretty much right when he said Rin was just like Shinji.
>the point is to show that Sakura lacked empathy
Empathy for what? Even Rin saw herself as never having gone through any real suffering. Sakura did her best to reconnect with Rin, while Rin kept being a bitch in return. When Sakura finally had enough and retaliated, she suddenly got the blame for everything because Nasu got cold feet about holding his newfound waifu responsible for anything. It was horrible writing that only served to make Rinfags feel justified in blaming Sakura for the events of HF. If anything, the lesson Sakura was taught at the end was "big sister always in the right even if she isn't, respect and obey blindly or you're eeevil". Hopefully Sudou will fix it in the third movie like he did with most of the other writing issues in HF.

>wormsluts

Nice job showing that you are interested in a civil discussion and aren't just looking for an excuse to shitpost.

How the hell can you expect Sakura to rebel? She had been tortured every day since she was 5 years old. She can't even ask for help since Zouken has his worms in her, which means he knows everything she does, and can cause her agonizing pain, stop her breathing or eat her brain on a whim. Also she saw the last person who tried to disobey Zouken get eaten alive by worms, which convinced her that rebelling or asking for help is meaningless and that opposing Zouken is impossible.

PS: Rider is a sadist with any eye gouging fetish.

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Yeah, Rin doing the "you're not the only one who suffered" routine at the end of HF was fucking ridiculous. It's like a rich first worlder telling someone barely surviving in a third world shithole that his life has difficulties too.

Nasu's waifu is Aoko, not Rin.
And he prefers Sakura.
The fact Rin was being a cunt was all a front. Heck even in HF. She outright pukes when she discovers the rape basement. Her behavior is entirely a front.
And it's not about who had it worse. Sakura obviously had it worse. But Rin had her own share of crap, being a magus's child comes with that and Rin isn't made for it to begin with. Rin wanted to believe for as bad as she got, Sakura was happy. It was delusion but it's what she told herself.
And Sakura assumed Rin was this perfect girl with no flaws and no problems. Her efforts to approach her were about having the fantasy of Rin she convinced herself was real.
Naturally it wasn't all her fault. But she wasn't just a victim to be saved. She had agency and she had fuck ups throughout the 16 days. That's the point.

>Rider is a sadist
Yesand.jpg
I only resort to using wormslut ad homs when I know I'm dealing with delusioned shitposters, shitposter-kun
At any rate, it can't be helped Rider is just the superior female.
Also
>muh excused
>s-she can't help herself
Bollocks. She won't, because she wants to be saved. She expects it's owed to her after the suffering she endured. Especially owed from Rin. It's different with Shirou I'll admit.

>This question is for Mr. Kinoko and Takashi: Out of all the Fate characters, who would you want as a bride? (Without worrying about gender)
>Nasu: Rin has been at the top of my list for the last ten years, since she could totally lead such a lost cause as myself. But now, as useless as I am, I would plot to make Kitsune my someone special.

Rin convinces herself that it's her duty to kill Sakura when she discovers that Zouken can control her. And she does in fact kill Sakura in some bad ends, so claiming it was all a front is pretty meaningless. Rin may feel bad about it, but she's still wants to kill her sister.

Go on, explain to me how Sakura can save herself if you've got it all figured out.

Archer was happy until he became a janitor to be fair
it also gave him hindsight though about his life though

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PTSD, Survivor's Guilt, misc trauma over his parents(they're mentioned once when he mocks going into his house at the "park", and guilt over the other orphans BEFORE they got Kirie'd

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Yeah and Sakra kills her back in others, bad ends don't mean shit.
She's trying to be what her dad expected of her, and she's not made for it.

nyet
It was just saying that Spartacus and Shirou have really good compatibility since Shirou fights are against himself and those stronger than him so he's not an "oppressor" to be killed
They even say their odds aren't great to win

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Pretty sure Nasu outright stated Rin was his waifu in an interview, and it shows incredibly clearly in how she never gets a raw deal in any of the main endings or outright murders Shirou the way Saber, Sakura and particularly Ilya do in bad ends. Meanwhile, he stubbornly set out to fuck over Sakura wherever he could for years upon years after the release of the VN just because he was too spineless to tell off her haters with the facts regarding what they were misunderstanding about her character.

Throughout the route she plays herself as a victim rather than admiting to her own agency, even as dark Sakurashe does it.

Yeah he admits it's really taking out his frustration out on himself. Though if the paradox of Shirou being killed by himself from the future works neato but he doesn't really put stock in it

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What the hell do you want Sakura to do? Explain to me you genius master plan that Sakura somehow missed.

She objectively is a victim. Dark Sakura is where she finally gets the opportunity to have some agency and ends up taking out every villain, but Rin actively opposes her trying to solve everything on her own and ends up shattering Sakura's newfound confidence for no real reason other than "muh big sister status".

What bad ends? In Femme Fatale Sakura kills Rin after Rin first shits all over Sakura and tells her she has no sympathy for her even though Sakura had asked for her help, followed by Rin trying to kill Sakura with a dagger, which could have succeeded if Saber hasn't intervened.

Rin hesitates in her final confrontation with Sakura but before Shirou rubbed onto her she was willing to fulfill what she saw as her duty as a magus and kill her sister.

I hate her because
>She's obsessively needy to Shirou
>Cucked his ideals so her romance felt forced and more of Shirou settling for her as pity
>Saber was truly fucked over in her route
Lastly because sh's a wormslut

Or maybe you faggots are obsessed with whitewashing the more complex of the three girls. You confuse pointing out of character flaws with hate of the character because you can't hamdle the worm banter. And I'm pretty sure it's secondaries doing this shit.
Before F/Z's anime this crap didn't happen to this extent.

>a dagger could have succeeded
>when she survived having Gil riddle her body with NPs and decapitating her
>when she casually tore out Zouken's last worm like 5 minutes before her fight with Rin

>Aoko -> Arcueid -> Rin -> Tamamo -> Medb
It seems like his taste has changed huh...
Also Nasu said in HF I or HF II booklet (i don't remember) that he liked her even more (than before)
HF I booklet has some interesting interviews btw, especially about Archer's backstory and Sakura + ghost story

^by "her" i mean Sakura. Sorry user(s)

Yeah man, she has so much agency when Zouken knew absolutely everything she did and could literally stop her heart or eat her brain whenever he wanted. Or for minor acts of rebellion he could just throw in extra torture if he feelt like it. And Sakura had been tortured every day for 11 years ever since she was 5. How the hell can you expect her to rebel in that state?

But once she has the power to defeat Zouken she did in fact rebel and kill Kotomine, True Assassin and Zouken, so your whining that Sakura just whined and never did anything is pretty ridiculous. But I guess you wanted her to suicidally rage against Zouken before she could do anything to harm him and get eaten by his worms from the inside.

Both Rin and Sakura thought that this attack could kill Sakura and the narration implied that it would work. I think that the regeneration ability Sakura had shown before was ignored for the sake of drama.

>Medb

Nasu does not like Medb. Congrats on falling for a blatant /fgog/ shitpost.

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Rin is the one and only ~

>You confuse pointing out of character flaws with hate of the character
The vast majority of hate for Sakura comes from people who didn't read the VN regurgitating character flaws she doesn't actually have. This has always been the case, which the "worm banter" in particular shows, considering anyone who actually read the VN knows she gets dewormed.
>Before F/Z's anime this crap didn't happen to this extent.
Because cancer like you would get butthurt and derail threads with NTR and scat doujin spam whenever anyone mentioned Sakura in a mildly positive light until captcha and posting cooldown were added and increased the post quality of Yea Forums.

That's some mental gymnastics there mate

It's not about taking an action it's about her mentality for fucks sake.
The actual details are irrelevant, what matters is the condition overall. The point is that she was in a scenario with no hope and she gave in, and she shouldn't have. By giving in, she could only see herself as a victim, and had no drive to act, only to be acted upon. That's a flaw. That she got over. Because she's a good character that went from being a shit person due to trauma to a good person from learning to overcome the shit that has weighed her down, both external and internal. Both the mud and the worms.

Nah. I mean Nasu did say The CSB (Celtic Super Bitch) was his favourite in an old interview and/or he said on his blog that he liked her

>It does not have a mentality that will break down under external pressure. If it did, it would have broken already eleven years ago. That thing is the strongest fortress that has no blade to strike back.

Sakura was able to resist Zouken and her mind did not break for 11 years. How did you expect her to rebel in the situation she was in though? Saying that she should have fought back or asked for help is ridiculous considering her situation.

t. anhedonia fake priest

To not give in is not the same as to resist.
Also she killed Kirei when he was being the good guy for once.

I find it kind of beautiful that Sakura can mask herself as a normal human being so well despite the fact that she’s been through so much. The fact that she can still feel embarrassed over silly things like snacking on rice balls during lunch or her weight is actually quite remarkable considering those little problems pale in comparison to the depths she’s seen.

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See: If Sakura had given in she'd have been completely mindbroken.

>Kirei
>good guy

Are you kidding? He helped Shirou only because their objectives temporarily coincided. He didn't want Zouken to use Illya to gain control of Avenger; the moment she was out of Zouken's grasp, Kotomine would go back to trying to unleash Avenger and end the world.

>people who didn't read the VN
Is that why one of the oldest TypeMoon related pictures on Yea Forums is that one where it's Rinfags vs Sakurafags with the wormslut meme being repeated?
Nigger the worm jokes have always been here, it's as old as currybutt and "Shiki can kill servants". The fact you don't know this demonstrates what a newfag you are
>captcha
>increased the post quality of Yea Forums
Seriously, just remove yourself back to tumblr or Gaia or whatever hellhole you spawned from.

>The point is that she was in a scenario with no hope and she gave in, and she shouldn't have.
>UOOOOOHHHHH THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP AND RESOLVE AND NEVER EVER GIVING UP ALLOWS ME TO HARMLESSLY EXPEL ALL THE WORMS EMBEDDED IN MY BODY AT THE AGE OF FIVE
Is that what you want? Giving in was literally what allowed her to endure for as long as she did, which is why it's shown that someone more proactive like Rin would break immediately in the same situation. When the power of the grail finally gave her the opportunity to overcome Zouken, she took it. If anything, Rin was the one who reset that development towards independence she got as Dark Sakura.
>Kirei
>good guy
He literally wanted her to die so Angra Mainyu could be born and destroy the world, speedreader.

So you're saying that the people who were parroting those memes in the old days had all read the VN and understood the story?

>Sakura was able to resist Zouken
Is that why she gave in to her own victimhood, claimed to not be salvageable despite wanting to be saved.
Or heck, why she actively wished for Shirou's failure while watching the Jump.jpg moment.
That right there is emblematic of Sakura. She had given in to her despair until Shirou showed her another way. But that's only in regards to Shirou. As far as everything else, she's still a cunt.

>If anything, Rin was the one who reset that development towards independence she got as Dark Sakura.
What development? Dark Sakura was her giving up to all the worst qualities that the decade of torture had given her. Are you seriously saying that the fact she learned to accept her own flaws when Rin finally did the right thing and dropped her bullshit is somehow a regressing of character.
>calling me a speedreader when you miss the "force once" in that quote
When Sakura "killed" Kirei, he was trying to rescue Ilya and aid Shirou. Objectively Sakura was the "evil" one in that exchange.
And she only killed him because he hit her where it hurt and pointed out her dark self was just how she really was.

>Is that why one of the oldest TypeMoon related pictures on Yea Forums is that one where it's Rinfags vs Sakurafags with the wormslut meme being repeated?
If you mean the "SLUTSLUTSLUT/BITCHBITCHBITCH" one, I made that back in 2010-11 or so. Way to out yourself as a newfag pretending to be an oldfag there. Anti-Sakura shitposting does indeed predate even the translation of HF, though, which just goes to show how Sakura haters didn't actually read the VN.
>Nigger
Yup, typical crossboarder newfag cancer trying to fit in. Why not post some old macros you found on KYM while you're at it?

Yes, yes I fucking am. Because that's what they were. That's what they are now. Fucking memes.
Nobody actually dislikes Sakura because she's a "slut" or has "worms". At least I sure as hell hope so. Just as nobody dislikes Saber because she's TM's whore, or nobody dislikes Rin because anus jokes.

If there was any ill will towards Sakura it was actually more something like
What this user posted.
She plays herself as a victim, her route was one where Shirou abandoned his ideals, which while not necessarily a bad thing, is still a punch in the gut after UBW, and HF was the route where Saber had to be killed by your own hand, another thing that made a lot of people upset, understandably.
Add to that the fact her route is really boring at the beginning because of the cooking padding, and the fact it ended up eating up Ilya's route, who's another fan favourite, it's not a surprise people tend to dislike Sakura more than the other two.
It's similar reasons to people disliking Ciel. The fact Ciel was extremely antagonistic towards Arc, who was THE TM waifu before Saber was ink on Takeuchi's pen, was why you got "muh currybutt" memes.
Again, the fact this even needs to be explained to you means you're either autistic and unable to pick up on social queues of Yea Forums, or you're a fucking newfag.

>I made that
I very much doubt that. But seeing as it's pointless to discuss it, I'll admit I'm wrong
Regardless, the shitposting that inspired that image is as old as Fate threads.

Sure thing man, Sakura should have just turned into a Shonen protagonist and fought in an impossible situation without ever giving up. Then she'd have grown some plot armor, asspulled an impossible victory and lived happily ever after. She saw how well that worked for Kariya so clearly she should have done the exact same thing as him.

Why are you replying to another person in the same post without linking to them? In any case, calling Kirei good in that situation is pretty fucking ridiculous. Kirei had his own plan and he was going to work against Shirou from that point on. And his plan also required Sakura to die, so she was pretty justified in killing him. Saying that Dark Sakura was the real Sakura is as ridiculous as saying that Dark Saber is the real Saber.

You honestly think that everyone who shits on Sakura by calling her a slut because she's not a virgin is doing it ironically?

Next you'll tell me that all the shitposting and people getting triggered by other anime characters who aren't virgins or who are simply attracted to a man who isn't the harem MC are all ironic memers as well.

>Is that why she gave in to her own victimhood, claimed to not be salvageable despite wanting to be saved.
She was able to live, and that alone is admirable and praiseworthy in her situation.
>why she actively wished for Shirou's failure while watching the Jump.jpg moment.
In case you didn't notice, she's not exactly the only one to have negative thoughts. Rin thinks of killing Shirou at several points, you know.
>Dark Sakura was her giving up to all the worst qualities that the decade of torture had given her. Are you seriously saying that the fact she learned to accept her own flaws when Rin finally did the right thing and dropped her bullshit is somehow a regressing of character.
When she became Dark Sakura, she refused to fear or submit to anyone again, only pretending to obey Zouken to make him let his guard down for the vital moment of betrayal. Rin forced her to give up her feeling of strength and independence.
>When Sakura "killed" Kirei, he was trying to rescue Ilya and aid Shirou.
He had already left them to their own devices at that point, and defeated Zouken and Hassan too for all he knew.
>her dark self was just how she really was.
Which, as anyone who's actually read the VN knows, is pure bullshit.

Did you just completely ignore the "to not give in is not the same as to resist" part?
At any rate, I'm not bothering with what ifs here. What happened plainly was that she did give in, and because of that her personality was poisoned by hopelessness. That translates into lack of empathy and bitterness she keeps hidden under the proper lady mask she puts forth.
That's the entire fucking point.
She's not a good person. She's not SUPPOSE to be a good person. If she was the character wouldn't be nearly as interesting as she is.

And yes, Kirei's a fucking jackass but at that time he was doing a good act, that's all I meant. And no, it's not the same. Because Sakura's nature as a magus means she more easily resists the personality fuckery of the mud.
Or in storytelling terms, despite thinking herself a victim, Sakura has more mental strength and willpower than Saber or Rin. The mud never got to her, same way it never got to Gil. Her actions were her own.

I want to believe it so my crumbling faith in TypeMoon fans on Yea Forums doesn't collapse entirely.
I want to believe that this waifu wars crap is either people ironically shitposting and I'm just getting baited, or shitposters trying to sour these threads entirely.
Because God forbid TM threads were never good but they were never this cancerous.

Purityfags are real and they're everywhere on Yea Forums. If you honestly think that all the "used goods" comments or all the rage whenever an anime girl isn't 100% devoted to MC-kun are ironic, then I don't really have anything to say to you. And there have been waifu wars forever and not just in TM threads, so you're really seeing these threads with rose-tinted glasses.

She did not give in to Zouken for 11 years. What the hell did you want her to do? She had no way of fighting back until she fused with Avenger, at which point she killed her tormentor.

>The mud never got to her, same way it never got to Gil. Her actions were her own.

Could you please try reading the VN before making assertions that have no connection to reality? Look at this screenshot for example: It makes it abundantly clear that Sakura's personality was altered by Angra and that it would eventually completely disappear.

>She was able to live, and that alone is admirable and praiseworthy in her situation.
No it's fucking not. TypeMoon is a setting where sense of self and mental strength is a virtue.
> Rin thinks of killing Shirou at several points, you know.
That's not the point I'm making. I'm specifically calling to that moment because it was the moment both sisters fell in love with Shirou. And their thoughts during represent the duality of them. Rin was ultimately too good to be the cunt that magi life required her to be, while Sakura had been made a cunt by her circumstances and hid it under a guise of demure behavior.
What Shirou does to the both of them is help Rin realize she doesn't need to be her father, and help Sakura overcome both the issues within and without to actually be that sweet girl she was only fronting as.
But that's also why it was always Rin that had to take the first step. Because Sakura was not capable of that first honest step towards reconciliation, given what she had become.
>Rin forced her to give up her feeling of strength and independence.
No she didn't. She forced her to admit to herself that all the feelings of revenge towards the world for her supposed lack of a saviour were misplaced. She had people who loved her and did try to help as best they could.
That's the point. Remove all the magic crap and the point is that you can't expect people to be exactly what you want or need them to be. That isn't fair to others. You have to accept that they'll do their best to be what you need, but that's all they can give. That's the reality. Just like how Sakura represents the "wife", the more real relationship Shirou has, because just like in a real relationship, you're expected to abandon parts of yourself to make it work.
HF is the reality to Fate's idealism and UBW's mixed approach. It's that on all levels
>Which, as anyone who's actually read the VN knows, is pure bullshit.
Yes, and RN is the canon VN.

>needy
More than justified.
>his ideals
The VN was for people over 18. You really should have seen them for the juvenile shit they were right away.
>forced
Saber and Rin were forced as fuck 2 week romances. Sakura was the only natural one, so it's no wonder she's the canon wife. You genuinely didn't read the VN if you think this.
>Saber
And Sakura is fucked over in the other two routes. Saber has UBW Good.
>She plays herself as a victim
No, she has an issue with blaming herself if anything. You know, that trait that Saber instantly notices, and Shirou ends up noticing as well?
>her route was one where Shirou abandoned his ideals, which while not necessarily a bad thing, is still a punch in the gut after UBW
He was insufferable before HF, though. Literally Naruto-tier.
>HF was the route where Saber had to be killed by your own hand, another thing that made a lot of people upset, understandably.
Servants were already dead from the beginning anyways. Getting attached to them is silly.
>Add to that the fact her route is really boring at the beginning because of the cooking padding
The beginning is fast-paced horror. You're thinking of a few days in the middle, and those had important characterization and tension building up.
>the fact it ended up eating up Ilya's route
Blaming UBW would make more sense, since HF at least had lots of Ilya in it.
>It's similar reasons to people disliking Ciel.
No, Ciel is disliked because she plain is lacking in heroine traits. She wears glasses, is a senpai... that's all there is to her. Ciel is closer to HF Rin if anything.

The thing is that there was always a veneer of irony in both of those. Nobody on Yea Forums takes shit as seriously as Jap otaku who burn merch in protest of their waifu getting the dick.

Is UBW Good a good end for Saber at all?

Waifu culture was originally a joke on Yea Forums too. People on Yea Forums started taking purityfaggotry seriously precisely because of all the vocal shitposting from Type Moon discussions. "Used goods" hasn't been ironic since like 2006.

I did read the VN. I read it so I don't need to make literal quotes as to discuss the damn point of the narrative.
The mud is meant to be the external forces trying to bring her down. That she doesn't give in is the entire point.
The fact her magical origin is nothingness represents that she has that mental willpower to not be easily brought down.
She gave in of her own accord. And she recovered her own self of her own accord by the positive influences of Shirou.

Maybe there are a few ironic comments but thinking that most people are being ironic is pretty ridiculous. Do you also think that everyone on /pol/ is a liberal that's ironically acting like a fascist?

I remember people waifuposting since at least 2005 on Yea Forums. It has always been treated seriously. People just project their own views onto others and assume that they have to be ironic.

>She gave in of her own accord.
Because the alternative was the shadow taking over entirely.
>And she recovered her own self of her own accord by the positive influences of Shirou.
No, it was quite literally her contract with Angra Mainyu being severed with Rule Breaker that did it.

>No, she has an issue with blaming herself if anything. You know, that trait that Saber instantly notices, and Shirou ends up noticing as well?
>I don't deserve to be saved
>Why did nobody save or pity me!
Yeah sure mate, doesn't play the victim at all
>He was insufferable before HF, though. Literally Naruto-tier.
Opinions
>Servants were already dead from the beginning anyways. Getting attached to them is silly.
Missing the point of Saber as well, congrats
>The beginning is fast-paced horror. You're thinking of a few days in the middle, and those had important characterization and tension building up.
The route still had pacing issues, and no, it was shit. Necessary shit maybe, but it was still shit.
>Blaming UBW would make more sense, since HF at least had lots of Ilya in it.
No I blame HF because HF absorbed Ilya's elements. UBW was the shortest route, blaming it would be dumb
>No, Ciel is disliked because she plain is lacking in heroine traits. She wears glasses, is a senpai... that's all there is to her. Ciel is closer to HF Rin if anything.
Congrats, that's three TM characters you miss the point of

I'm pretty sure the issue is, if these "Sakurafags" aren't just shitposters, they're autistic and unable to read the story as a narrative to explore characters, but take it literally in all respects. This would make sense.

>No, it was quite literally her contract with Angra Mainyu being severed with Rule Breaker that did it.
>Shirou stabs her with Rule Breaker after she gives him a chance by resisting long enough
>Shirou's positive influences help her recover

Do you just not understand thematics or were you busy staring at her breasts during the scene?

She gets to live a second life in the modern world and with the help of Shirou she overcomes her issues and moves on beyond them. Of course it's a good ending for her.

>I don't need to make literal quotes

You're literally ignoring a quote from VN because it contradicts your headcanon. I'm almost impressed by your pigheadedness.

>her magical origin is nothingness

Her Origin is Imaginary Numbers, but I guess you can ignore that like you did with everything else that doesn't fit into the narrative you've made up.

>Imaginary Numbers
>Hollow, also called Imaginary Numbers

>You're literally ignoring a quote from VN because it contradicts your headcanon. I'm almost impressed by your pigheadedness.
And you're ignoring Kirei's statements concerning Sakura, you're ignoring Sakura's own admissions and straight up explanation of her flaws, you're ignoring the entire damned route in my view.
But it's okay
You've got Realta Nua and now you've got the movies.
I just wish you'd fuck off to tumblr or reddit to discuss it.

>Yeah sure mate, doesn't play the victim at all
Her saying she doesn't deserve to be saved actively defeats your point, you know.
>Missing the point of Saber
There's a reason she didn't stay with Shirou in Fate, you know. Human-servant relations were never meant to be.
>The route still had pacing issues
Not really. There was a chart showing how it was the most eventful route.
>UBW was the shortest route, blaming it would be dumb
UBW was irrelevant shounen fluff that should have been cut in order to have both the Ilya route and the Sakura route.
>Congrats, that's three TM characters you miss the point of
Looks like you missed that infamous picture showing which Tsukihime heroines the F/SN heroines are combinations of. Rin is Akiha+Ciel, while Sakura is Satsuki+Kohaku (Saber being Arcueid+Hisui, of course). HF Rin's behavior towards Sakura is very comparable to Ciel's behavior towards Arcueid.

They're not the same fucking thing you mongoloid. If they were then Shiki Ryougi would have Imaginary Numbers as well as her origin instead of Nothingness.

>ignoring the entire damned route in my view

The only thing I'm ignoring is the made up version of HF you have in your head. You're the one who's either ignoring or twisting what the various characters said to fit your retarded narrative.

>Her saying she doesn't deserve to be saved actively defeats your point, you know.
She "says" it but doesn't mean it, she wants to be saved. Hence why dark Sakura was mad at the world
>There's a reason she didn't stay with Shirou in Fate, you know. Human-servant relations were never meant to be.
Because she's an ideal to be pursued. That's what her romantics with Shirou represent you faggot
>Not really. There was a chart showing how it was the most eventful route.
The thing is, once things kicked into high gear, it was the best route. But it still took far too long to get into the good stuff.
>UBW was irrelevant shounen fluff
Opinions
>Looks like you missed that infamous picture showing which Tsukihime heroines the F/SN heroines are combinations of. Rin is Akiha+Ciel, while Sakura is Satsuki+Kohaku (Saber being Arcueid+Hisui, of course). HF Rin's behavior towards Sakura is very comparable to Ciel's behavior towards Arcueid.
Except the nature of the behavior matters more than the superficial behavior, faggot-kun.
Ciel was the way she was towards Arc for practical reasons
Rin was the way she was towards Sakura because she was trying to distance herself so she could do her "job", aka, make daddy proud.

You know who's the real worst faggot in all of Fate? Tokiomi. Fuck that faggot. Literally everything bad that happened to both sisters is his fault. Kirei's greatest act was stabbing the fuck.

>they're not the same fucking thing
I called it Nothingness, I meant Hollow. The point is the term is meant to represent she isn't easy to taint, she's outside the usual elements.

>You're the one who's either ignoring or twisting what the various characters said to fit your retarded narrative.
Again, I'm not taking what Rin said about the mud at face value
You're ignoring Kirei's words and Sakura's own monologue, both of which are meant to be climatic explorations of her character and her betterment.

>Kirei's statements concerning Sakura
The ones Ilya and even Rin instantly called out as bull.
>you're ignoring Sakura's own admissions and straight up explanation of her flaws
And you're ignoring Sakura's major issue with blaming herself and exaggerating her flaws even when it's not actually true. You know, basically what the Rain and Liberation scenes are all about? You'd have to be an idiot to accept what she says in them as the actual truth, since she's just beating herself up out of self-hatred.
>You've got Realta Nua and now you've got the movies.
Yeah, they're canon, but they really only make what was already there in the original more obvious. Maybe you should go to Reddit, though, I've heard it's a refuge for Rinfags.

Rude.

Sakura is not immune to corruption. We are explicitly told that but you choose to ignore it because of your made-up narrative. That quote was from Illya who's the one infodumping on Avenger and the Grail. If you want to ignore her then you should ignore practically everything we know about Avenger. The only thing Kotomine said was that Dark Sakura wasn't a completely different personality from Sakura; he never said that she wasn't affected by Avenger. And which monologue are you talking about?

There's roughly 50 or so timelines explored in the VN alone. Granted, most of them has Shirou die horribly.

Archer's goal was never about killing Shirou. It was always about making him turn away from his path to selling his soul to the world and being trapped as a Counter Guardian for eternity. In each route his primary method is to talk Shirou down from his path. In UBW Shirou is confronted with his fate, and swears to stay on the path anyways. That's the point when Archer tries killing him, on the slim hope that the sheer paradox would be enough to erase himself.

Following the same line of logic, HF Archer sees that Shirou is already straying from the path, which is why Archer is willing to be so helpful.

On a sadder note, if I recall the VN correctly, he also attacked Zouken on sight, and thought that cutting his head off was enough to kill him. Poor guy didn't even know that he didn't actually save Sakura in his own timeline.

>The ones Ilya and even Rin instantly called out as bull.
His comments hold more weight, not just because he's more familiar with the mud, but because Kirei as a character is the guy that explores and deconstructs other people
>And you're ignoring Sakura's major issue with blaming herself and exaggerating her flaws even when it's not actually true.
She wasn't blaming herself, she was admitting guilt. She blamed herself wrongly for fault in stabbing Rin (which true, that wasn't her in a literal sense), she blamed herself for putting Shirou in danger (both literally and narratively that isn't her fault, because Shirou's a madman that'd do it regardless), but as far as Rin's concerned she very much is at fault for the hypocrisy she brought to the relationship. And she didn't excuse Rin of her own failures, she merely recognized her own flaws.
>Yeah, they're canon, but they really only make what was already there in the original more obvious. Maybe you should go to Reddit, though, I've heard it's a refuge for Rinfags.
>Realta Nua is canon
This shitpost is truly amazing.
But seriously though, go make detailed posts about how Nasu victim blamed poor wormslut on tumblr, it's more your speed, faggot-kun.

I can get why he was so confused, when people talk about the Gate of Babylowning she got, it makes light of her condition (plus the grail stuff) where her insides were sewn shut like a doll that has its stuffing rearranged, her guts were in such disorder Rin thought she had died once, and the narrative described in the VN that her heart was literally making squishing noises as she walked, and she linked her limbs with magical energy to even get up. So she was pretty much like a zombie, with mashed potato organs. Avenger only sealed up her stuff so it wouldn't fall out on the pavement, but she got disemboweled, headshotted twice, and had her arms and legs cut off, WITH a decapitation.

Sakura is a hardcore motherfucker. She might as well have been the living dead at that point.

I'm ignoring Ilya because Ilya's info dump on Avenger and the Manjew should have no narrative impact on seeing Sakura's character
And I'm talking about the monologue after Rin gets stabbed while hugging her. Also know as the culmination of their conflict and the highest character point in HF.

>we are explicitly told in the VN that Sakura's personality has been altered and that it will eventually disappear due to Avenger
>"I'm ignoring that because it doesn't fit what I think the narrative should be and I think that Sakura should be 100% immune to grail corruption"

Fine, whatever, believe what you want. Arguing with you is utterly meaningless.

>Literally go toe to toe with a Servant, and come out not only alive, but on top
>Lose to a dying, cursed autistic teenager.

At least in HF Shirou was at least kind pointy n shit.

Not really no. But its still better than Sakura. Shirou doesn't really love Saber in UBW and Rin is basically hanging an anchor around her neck by giving up so much of her mana to keep her in the world.

Same goes for the people who claim that Sakura was wrong for being resentful of Rin really. Yes Rin's life wasn't all sunshine and rainbows growing up with no parents and only having Kirei. But its a hell of a lot better than being tortured and experimented on for over a decade
so you can eventually become a human vessel for a 500 year old evil bug man.

Rin better be getting some compensation for keeping Saber around.

Nobody ever claimed Rin had it worse. Not even Sakura said that when she had her epiphany

This is exactly why I don't get the appeal of Illya's magical girl show.

Well, that, and the excessive naked children.

>excessive naked children
>excessive

>excessive naked children
>muh pedo show abloo bloo
>TM should be serious all the time

Next you'll say Carnival Phantasm is bad.
Your ilk disgusts me.

Kotomine only managed to immobilize Hassan for a few seconds and he'd have 100% died if he had a human heart. And that was despite the fact that Hassan was a shitter who was far weaker than most Servants.

And Kotomine dominated in his fight against Shirou. The only reason Shirou survived was that Kotomine died from his heart getting destroyed.

What children?
They're drawings with terrible proportions

The fight with Rin had times where you can call both of their issues into question, but its objectively true that the narrative shows Sakura breaking down and it being a factor that all those Heroic Spirits were breaking her soul down on top of the blackening charming her. It even gives you a "pay attention to this" thing with the red static happening when she is talking to Rin, along with the contradicting internal dialogue. The story definitely is not saying that Sakura is fine emotionally/spiritually/physically and she is just evil through and through, you'd have to not be reading the many sources of context to think that.

I'm not saying she's evil.
At most I'm calling her a cunt.
Again, if you were raped by worms for 10+ years, you'd be a cunt too.
The only flaw I dislike in her as a person isn't that she's a cunt, it's that she plays the victim. I personally dislike that.

Again, the mud is the enemy without for Sakura. It's the external factors that weight her down in an attempt to reinforce all the bad aspects of her.

She is a victim though.

Did you really expect a little girl with no magic training to be able to overpower a 500 year old magus on her own?

>His comments hold more weight, not just because he's more familiar with the mud, but because Kirei as a character is the guy that explores and deconstructs other people

To a point, yes, but his attribute is opening wounds, which is why he is good with the magical surgery, but remember the "Rejoice, shounen, your wish has come true" line? He disingenuously gets to heart of what hurts people, and implying to Shirou that his ideal is all a game to satisfy a complex is the most hurtful to him. For Sakura, its telling her that she isn't human and loves to devour people just hours after she is eating herself up over accidentally killing Shinji because of an idle thought, or did you forget the scene where she said the Matou magic is no good because it pillages from people and doesn't give back? Not really the type that just wants to snack on people, and at that point she could have just emptied Fuyuki in seconds, but she doesn't.

She doesn't precisely because dark Sakura is still just a reflection of Sakura's darker thoughts.
And just because someone's a cunt doesn't mean they want to genocide an entire city

I can't really say she is a cunt either. Bitter in some cases, but not a cunt. I cited Complete Material II, where Nasu says if she treated Shinji like garbage and became full dom, she would have an easier time at the Matous. Basically saying that being empathetic bit her in the ass. It's one of her character traits. If you're a cunt, you don't really care what people think, but she is about as far from that as a person gets.

She should have just thrown him into the wormpit to teach Shinji what being a matou magus feels like. Faggot talks the talk about being the true heir but is too much of a pussy to walk the walk.

Stop bothering with anons that are devoted to misunderstanding her character. They've been more loud than usual these days because the trilogy so far has been a massive success, and has upped Sakura's popularity a ton which is making them angry since they thought it would do the opposite.

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It seems you give her too much shit for "playing the victim" when it's whole dilemma for her. Yes, Sakura wants deep down to be saved, but this is also one of the things she hates the most about herself, because of a combination of how she doesn't value herself at all (being a magus of a magic that only steal from others, hiding and lying constantly to the few people close to her about her life prior to the HGW, all those things that makes her consider herself a bad person) and how trying to involve other people to save her only drags them down or completely ruins them. This is why she always repress her wish of wanting to be saved by other people and instead always self-loath to avoid hurting these people.

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I just hope it means FGO can hire a better artist and make a proper Sakura because fuck using that Boudica tracejob. You can tell they just didn't give a damn when making Parvati when they picked an incompetent artist and made her a 4 star. Then DW didn't even have the decency to put her on rateup for the 2nd movie.

FGO has plenty of great artists. I still don't understand myself why they gave Parvati to Boudica of all people. If Dark!Sakura makes it into the game, I'm kind of hoping that Task Ohna is the one to draw her. He's responsible for the HF manga, and draws her real pretty, see pic-related. If not then at least Koyama since he's always loved her, a lot of the original TM staff love Sakura which is a fact that's always nice to remember.

Attached: Dz5fRpaU0AAP4Iw.jpg (900x1200, 182K)

The thigh gap, actually.

A shitty Servant is still a fucking Servant, bro. Kotomine came out on top of that fight. And I was referring to Fate when he gets punch-shanked by Shirou to death, not the beautiful glory that is a pointless folly.

But it's asinine.
She wants it, ask for it. She can't be saved if she wont save herself.
That's why recognizing her faults was the first step towards betterment.

She isn't the sort of cunt in that way. Rin's the upfront cunt.

Shirou was using avalon through his link with saber at that point though, that's how he escaped from Angra Mainyu twice, even if Kotomine tried to punch shirou and his punch was on the level of enuma elish it would still phase through him.

>Sakurafag
>also a thigh fag instead of glorious breasts

I swear to god everything about you people disgusts me.

And ironically, her repressed and "darker" personality is what pushes her to save herself. However, for that to happen, Angra has to exploit the glimpse of hope she feels of being saved by the love of her life in order for Sakura to let it all out. In the past and in the other two routes, she's completely resigned that she doesn't deserve to be saved.

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