(1)
>People may be reticent to admit this aloud, but the biggest attraction of reading a classic novel is to have said you’ve read it. Sure, there are common smoke screens deployed to make the act of reading a classic anything besides self-serving — “I want to participate in the cultural dialectic of history” or some similar B.A. BS — but those rationalizations, those bits of misdirection that serve to remove the individual reader from the smug spotlight by turning the act of reading into an act of cultural participation, are actually self-undermining. The choice to read (and then discuss*) a classic, then, is often an egocentric attempt to achieve cultural kudos because the exact challenging, difficult, this-book-will-make-you-think allure attributed to the classics — one of their most appealing characteristics — creates an unattainable standard of textual “mastery” that most readers can’t hope to obtain. It’s an impossible uphill battle where credit is sought for simply treading on the slope.
>*(To be fair, the easiest solution to this problem is for people to stop using the artistic preferences as means of identifying their so-called intellect, to cease trying to turn personal lists of favorite pieces of art — movies, books, television shows, etc. — into a displays of brainpower. Really, we’d be better off if people just shut up about what art they were consuming because, like sharing your dream that has symbolism only to you, nobody actually gives a crap. But where’s the fun in that?)
What’s helpful is that, thanks to search engines and the canonization of certain texts in U.S. secondary education, most people are aware of the general definition of “classic literature.” Dickens wrote classics, Joyce wrote classics, Austen wrote classics; you know the drill. Which books are classics is not exactly critical — though that’s a fun conversation for another time, with lots of talk about Dead White Men on syllabi — but what makes those books considered classics is important because their draw is what leads people to read them, and that draw is what makes the act of reading them so oddly self-defeating.
>On the most basic level, a novel is a considered a classic because it is in some way challenging, either to the reader in the present day (challenging in terms of language or form) or to the reader in the time it was written (challenging in terms of content). There are other ways in which a novel becomes a classic, yes, but the “difficult” reputation is most pertinent. People are drawn to reading classic novels because they are “hard.” The struggle associated with reading them is seen as some sort of reward, something analogous to every time your dad made you pulled weeds and haul gravel “‘cuz it’s good for ya.” As readers, we want credit for having tackled something so difficult. This is a strange desire (not because seeking credit is somehow abnormal, but because seeking credit in an almost unachievable task seems like a colossal time waster).
Is he right Yea Forums?
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(2)
>To be blunt, it is impossible to truly feel the impact of a groundbreaking classic novel unless you were around when it was written. It’s true. Oh, you can approximate the experience by delving into graduate-level literature studies, but there’s a big difference between “I know that novels during time T had X characteristic, and then novel N came along with Y and changed things” and the far more personal “I was reading novels with X characteristic, unaware that I was even living within what would be later defined as a time T, and then novel N came along with Y and rocked my damn world.” (As you can tell, I excelled in algebra.)
>One of the biggest reasons why young students have a hard time identifying with classic novels that may have pushed all the social buttons back in the day is that said students live in the modern world, those buttons now appearing as silly/shameful reminders of days long evolved from. The most learned and dedicated readers, those who can come closest to truly understand a classic for its true cultural weight, are academics, and (thankfully) not everyone has the time to immerse themselves in literary academia, to spend ghastly sums of money learning the requisite historical context to really know and, more importantly, feel what, say, Finnegans Wake is all about.
>So, really, there is no true way to experience the challenging nature of a classic as it pertains to the historical context in which it was originally published unless you’re in possession of a time machine and have the weird desire to use that technology to become intimately familiar with the impact of Thomas Hardy novels. (Back in high school, Hardy was the Bane of my existence in English class.)
>Remaining, then, is the other component of what helps make a novel a classic: the challenge to the modern reader. Once again, we run into a problem of specialized knowledge rooted in history.
>Novels can be difficult because on a textual level they are unfamiliar, be it in diction or syntax or any other formal structure. This difficulty is actually surmountable, but it requires a similar level of deep, particular knowledge regarding both the juxtaposition of a classic’s characteristics with other novels of the era and the precise vocabulary needed to explain/define those characteristics (think back to those “literary devices” you are forced to needlessly memorize back in school).
>Novels often rely on variations of self — of their prescribed genre, say — to enhance what we’ll clumsily refer to as “meaning.” If a novel uses violations or reinterpretations of tropes, forms, expectations, etc. to achieve some sort of depth beyond just the text, then to a reader wanting to understand a classic novel, an intimate knowledge of exactly what it is that’s being violated is required.
(3)
>This level of understanding demands time and outside reading, work beyond the scope of effort likely justifiable to even the most avid reader when utilitarian allocations of time are concerned. Reading a classic novel is a research project; it is not an endeavor for the lazy.
>So, then, the challenging nature of classic novels is a bit more complex than might initially appear. They are difficult in both form and in content, and to comprehend and overcome those challenges requires an effort bordering on the Quixotic impossible. So what’s the problem? Well, to take on the task of tackling a classic novel is to acknowledge it’s perceived cultural status of “difficult,” and while such a recognition is meant to empower you as a reader in contrast to those around you — Hey, look what novel smarty-pants me is one-third done with! — it has to logically coincide with your understanding that other people may be able to gain more from the text than you thanks to their education/experience. Lacking a Ph.D., there is almost no way for you to come out ahead in this scenario. What have you accomplished by slogging through, say, Gravity’s Rainbow when a professor at Yale has read it hundreds of times in the past few decades?
>The answer is, well, your get to say you’ve read it. Welcome to the cultural elite; here’s your mental caviar bib! Think about it: If it is nearly impossible to truly overcome some the challenges posed by a classic text, and if taking on such a book is implicit with the understanding that someone may understand the book more than you, the only truly attainable goal, then, is to simply say you’ve tackled it. You can discuss it — either by talking over other peoples’ heads with an air of superiority or by deferring politely to someone, likely in a tweed jacket, more well-versed than you — and that’s what matters. You’re reading of the book is a magical pass that allows you to access a certain, desirable, privileged realm of conversation.
>“Now wait a minute,” you might protest, “if the ability to discuss what we’ve read to others is the most attractive quality of reading a novel, then doesn’t that mean everyone should just read Gone Girl and Twilight since those trash novels are what’s popular? Wouldn’t that mean you could talk about what you’ve read to more people?” That’s a fair point. However, what’s important to remember is that the people drawn to reading classics are likely not the people salivating over the latest Airplane Lit. release.
(4)
>The appeal of being able to share your reading experience with statistically a greater number of people is only valuable if you want to associate with and be associated with said people. But we tend to think we’re smarter than the average person on the street, so that’s why attention is focused on plowing through the classics: it allows us to be symbolically linked with a class of people we admire. We want to be known as someone who “reads the classics” because we respect the type of people whom “read the classics.”
>To be part of their private circle is alluring because it reinforces our arrogant assumptions about our own intelligence compared to others below us — disregard that other people know more than me, what’s important is that I know more than you.
>What’s fascinating about this desiring of intellectual bragging rights via affiliation with a certain demographic of art enthusiasts is that it seems almost unique to novels, at least on a widespread cultural scale. Sure, there will be snobs and elitist sucking the fun out of every art form, but our conception of reading gives novels a bizarrely elevated status. There is atonal, intentionally cacophonous music that is praised, sure, but on the whole people prefer tunes they can dance to, music rooted in an understood genre. Certain independent and experimental films can seemingly take Hollywood by storm, but even the most Cannes-worshipping moviegoer can find something worthwhile in a generic popcorn flick. Books, however, possess a different cultural clout. We expect more out of novels.
>There are good reason as to why books are seemingly, for lack of a better term, “more respected” in comparison to other artistic mediums. The positive effects reading has on mental health, acuity, and development have all been well-documented. This serves as the most basic justification for why we hold novels in such a high regard; reading is actively good for you. The second reason relates to the inherently lonely and personal nature of reading. A movie last only a few hours; a book can last for months. You can’t really read and do something else at the same time, whereas other forms of art are more passively received, ergo allowing multitasking to occur without the fear of losing comprehension. Finishing a book takes time, though, and we want to ensure that time is well spent.
>caring what some pseud tabloid """""""writer""""" thinks
I can't wait for AI to replace these """"""people"""""".
The classics are classics because they are objectively good pieces of work and speak to the human condition in some way. The fact that OP's clickbait memer wants to be edgy by denying himself that doesn't change things.
(5)
>The personal investment of time required by reading, then, creates the environment in which we want to use what we’ve read as means of signifying our belonging to a certain group. We want to “cash in” the time we devoted to a classic novel. There are few other way to “get” something from the lonely task that is reading besides possessing the ability to connect, all the solitary time traded in for the ability to now socialize with specific and desirable fellow readers. Reading causes you to be isolated, an ostensibly egotistical act considering the connected world we live in, and we need a means (conversing with other readers) to dilute that selfishness. Yet, as was previously said, to read the classics is inescapably selfish in a way, an act of trying to ensure that the other readers you can now connect with are the people you want to be thought of alongside. Really, the whole situation is kind of messy. Not only is the pursuit of a reputation as someone who “reads the classics” kind of snobbish, but it is also unattainable thanks to the limitations hindering a “complete” understanding of a classic novel within the contexts of era and genre. It’s futile and foolhardy.
>Let’s be clear: choosing to read a classic novel doesn’t make you a bad, arrogant, or undesirable person. It doesn’t guarantee that you’ll be annoying or pretentious. However, we live in a cultural where personal tastes are increasingly important (and visible) as signifiers of who we are. The problem is not with the individual but with the system. In a time where connotations reign supreme, almost all acts, from the monumental to the mundane, seem rife for analysis and extrapolation. The solution is not to brand lovers of classic literature as somehow evil, but rather to indict the system that reinforces the social value and cultural clout of classic novels. To eliminate such a social practice would allow, finally, more contemporary novels to receive their just dues, a positive change from the obsessions with relics we have now.
(6)/F
>The compulsion to read classic novels, then, should not be confused with the compulsion to read respected, good literature that is more contemporary. They’re similar drives, yes, but their differences are important. You can read novels that challenge and push you without you having to battle against the text, without being forced to keep a tab open on your browser to a webpage for translating Old English into a more modern and comprehensible tongue. A novel may subvert formal normalcy and play around with literary devices in intricate ways — think House of Leaves — but at least those experiments exist within a language you’re familiar with. You can read novels that challenge the norms of the society you actively reside and participate in — thereby giving the novels the capacity to actually facilitate change in your life — not just novels that challenged the societal expectations of the 1800s. The intellectual effort is similar as when you read a more enshrined classic, but the end result is more satisfactory since more people around you will have likely read the modern novel, ergo making the isolated act of reading more “valuable” in the sense of having an interesting conversational topic at the next soiree. Classic novels of bygone eras are by no means worthless, but one should take caution when considering if they are personally worthwhile.
>(Now, if you’ll excuse me, I must return to my journey through Oroonoko. What, you haven’t read it? What’s wrong with you, philistine?)
Post the archive you fucking window licker
Sorry user
archive.is
>>"The personal investment of time required by reading, then, creates the environment in which we want to use what we’ve read as means of signifying our belonging to a certain group. We want to “cash in” the time we devoted to a classic novel. There are few other way to “get” something from the lonely task that is reading besides possessing the ability to connect, all the solitary time traded in for the ability to now socialize with specific and desirable fellow readers."
What a pathetic bitter twit. Jesus, imagine so profoundly not understanding the joy of reading that you can say this shit with a straight face. Sure, some folks buy books to show off, but what made them take that route? Why do they love books in the first place? Were they reading old books in junior high just to impress their friends? To chat with hot girls about them? Bullshit. We grew up reading because we loved it, and even if we can't get the same experience from an old book that the original readers did, we still get solitary joy, education, and a thoughtful reflection on the world. I don't read for fucking conversation topics, even if I occasionally find myself in a chat about a book. We don't read books just in the hopes of getting laid or starting book clubs or becoming the foremost authority on the book or to keep up with the Jonses, we read--everything, classic or pulp, new or old--because reading is wonderful and we enjoy learning, you fucking hack.
I agree. I like to think about it this way:
These classics are classics because they mostly convey truths universal to the human experience.
They convey various events and situations that one couldn’t possibly live in a thousand lifetimes.
I unironically believe you gain a kind of life experience from reading something like Anna Karenina or Stoner. They enhance your ability to reflect on your self and your place in the world
Well said. There are plenty of advantages to reading but without the silent solitary joy that is unique to it it would be all dead.
>implying I'm going to waste my time and energy reading all that when I know it's bait
Here's the best rebuttal for this sort of thinking:
theviewfromhell.blogspot.com
>A novel may subvert formal normalcy and play around with literary devices in intricate ways — think House of Leaves
Holy fuck. At least he saved his completely self-discrediting reference for the end of his piece
>but the end result is more satisfactory since more people around you will have likely read the modern novel
More people around me have read Pride and Prejudice and Wuthering Heights than any modern novel I can think of. This is a completely nonsensical argument. It refers more to obscure contemporary works than it does to classics.
Thanks fren
I don't see the issue with people reading for cultural cachet. We're a social species. People adorn themselves with beautiful objects in order to be more visually pleasing to others. I don't see why adorning your personality with the best your culture has to offer would be more of an issue. Truly cultured people are more pleasant to be around, and tend to be less snobbish than the midwits who've read a couple books in order to lord it over the people only slightly below them socially.
>People may be reticent to admit this aloud, but the biggest attraction of reading a classic novel is to have said you’ve read it.
I used to think the classics we're overrated, until I read them. They are master pieces.
Whoever wrote that didn't read The Last Man, The Monk or The Count of Monte Cristo.
Truuuuu
1. Classics are more, not less likely to be culturally relevant than contemporary fiction because most contemporary fiction isn't widely-read, and classics are by definition widely-read. So even if you read solely to grapple with these works through conversation with others, then your best bet would be classics.
2. Classics are often great as works in themselves, independent of their cultural and historical context. This is true for every medium. Kids enjoy Beethoven. Even an illiterate peasant can look at Michelangelo's David and be impressed.
3. If you only stick to contemporary art you'll suffer from a sort of artistic parochialism, where the aesthetic and formal trends of your time will seem like they're inherent to the medium itself because you simply haven't seen anything else.
4. Communing through time is like traveling to another place: all of your prejudices will be challenged simply by seeing or reading other people live differently.
>what makes those books considered classics
Maybe if he read more classics he would be capable of exercising syntax.
So reading for pleasure just never enters this guys head? Or he thinks you can't possibly read classics for pleasure?
I can't relate to this way of thinking at all. Firstly, I'd like to ask him what exactly is wrong with reading for self-serving reasons and why would anyone be loath to admit that they read for themselves? And why does he think everyone reads for 'cultural kudos' when most people today are indifferent to literature? I've always kept my reading habit to myself, and the few who do know that I read old books regard it more as an odd personality quirk if not an outright waste of time - no one's impressed. This is just an article written by an unfortunate man on whom the joy of reading classic novels is lost. In other words
>projecting this hard
He's right for some, and wrong for others. Goethe's Faust is still an excellent read today, despite its difficulty. Fontane's Effi Briest needs to be burned and banished, it has only historical significance.
I'm impressed that he manages to write a critique on the classics without using 'muh dead white males' argument, but nonetheless, this is pure philistinism.
Not gonna read this retard's article. It can certainly be said that the jist of a lot of classic texts has disseminated into our culture enough that more classics are obsolete now than the bookish crowd would admit, but society also tends to learn all the wrong lessons from things, so you'll never know nuggets of brilliance didn't make it into the zeitgeist unless you read them for yourself. The best aspects of many classic books are the things you never really hear talked about.
Publishers don't want people reading classes cause then they will realize how shit most newer novels are.
>On the most basic level, a novel is a considered a classic because it is in some way challenging
That's a pretty quick way to admit you don't know what you're talking about
I agree with you, but what do you think makes something a classic?
I think it’s a story that transcends its historical context (Which he also says in this shitpost that you can’t “get” a classic unless you read it in its current time). Something that can convey ideas and emotions that all (or most) humans can relate to.
>To be blunt, it is impossible to truly feel the impact of a groundbreaking classic novel unless you were around when it was written
To be blunt, this is so wrong it's not even funny. Many groundbreaking novels could only be recognised as such through later, historically "incorrect" readings (aka ones where the reader is not totally immersed in the context of the text by living contemporaneously to it). A text is not simply a snapshot of its own momentary time and culture, and time and culture don't progress by replacing the past either. The now in itself is nothing, the now is accumulation and permutation of the past, sometimes in downright irrational and obscurely self-referential ways. To come into conflict with the foreign (which exists in our own past no less than in distant cultures) and to find that which is universal are the two central mechanics of art reception and of learning about our own position, possibilities, and our internal, unconscious worlds.
I didn't read the entire text, but this fundamental oversimplification of the way culture exists is probably the central mistake here. The same logic could be used to claim that we should not read texts from more distant nations - allegedly very few people in the west can truly "get" Han Kang's masterful "Vegetarian" because it is an allegory for the situation in Korea. So why the fuck should I read her? Maybe I also shouldn't read her because she's a heterosexual woman and I as a gay man cannot really understand her and her protagonist's position? Can I even understand a contemporary novel from the US, since I'm from east Europe? Who knows.
Also, fuck that horseshit about older texts being supposedly significantly more difficult than new ones. Ahistorical bullshit, 40 and 30 years ago obscure and (in the traditional sense) meaningless poetry was all the rage, and it was no more understandable then than it is now. Today we are in a phase of literary "realism", formal directness, which is of course just an illusion, an another formal device, but this dumb fuck is unaware that her thinking is just carried by and entirely immersed in that recent cultural wave. After one or two years of reading of the classics nobody with half a brain would (or should) really see them as difficult, since the only way you can truly make a mistake in reading is by incorrectly understanding a word. The rest is up to the reader in the barest sense, a naked mind before the foreign artistic object. Anyone making up (perhaps due to projection) some other motivations and consequences of other peoples' readings should rethink their priorities, are they interested in dealing with ideas and truth, or just gossip how some guy is reading Don Quijote (ironically a pretty straightforward novel as far as its storytelling goes) for hipster cred.
tldr: the article is horseshit
>Kids enjoy Beethoven.
They get bored after three minutes.
>Even an illiterate peasant can look at Michelangelo's David and be impressed.
They mostly just laugh at his small peepee these days.
Fuck off back to Yea Forums, you stupid cancerous polyp, I left that board years ago so that I don't have to interact with abortions such as you.
Why not just link the fucking article?
see don't give (((them))) clicks
>To be blunt, it is impossible to truly feel the impact of a groundbreaking classic novel unless you were around when it was written.
>The most learned and dedicated readers, those who can come closest to truly understand a classic for its true cultural weight, are academics, and (thankfully) not everyone has the time to immerse themselves in literary academia, to spend ghastly sums of money learning the requisite historical context to really know and, more importantly, feel what, say, Finnegans Wake is all about.
lol, so first he says you need to be alive at the time of publication to feel the full "impact" of a groundbreaking work, and then he proceeds to reference a book that is quite clearly groundbreaking and guaranteed to be like nothing the reader has ever read before no matter what time he lives in.
This guy is seriously sick in the head, what makes him tick? What makes him seethe this hard over what is excellent?
This is all just low-effort coping written for wine moms to feel better about reading Shades of Gray instead of the Bronte novel that they bought with it at Barnes and Noble. It's not worth engaging with or reading through.
>an explanation of why I'm an idiot
I read classics to see why they are classics. I don’t even talk about reading with anyone I personally know.
>People may be reticent to admit this aloud, but the biggest attraction of reading a classic novel is to have said you’ve read it
>I'm a pretentious pseud, desperate for the approval of others, so everyone else must be, too.
Dropped after one sentence.
Six year old clickbait from some "writer" who shit out hundreds of pages of sports clickbait, a few capeshit reviews, and one article about why no one should read books. The latter was his crowning achievement.
this basically