Is hell real? Eternal hellfire seems pretty harsh for 80 or so years of sinning on earth

Hell is real of course.
But then, the eternal hell is a papist thing. In orthodoxy (which means for the christian tradition), there is different levels of hell differing from the gravity of sins. While in cucktholicism there is purgatory and the theology that says that all people who made a mortal sin are in hell (mortal sins are for example fornication, thief,...). The difference between the purgatory and hell is the fact hell is perpetual.
And so, in papism there can't be hope of salvation for murderers or people who fucked... before their death (people that made a mortal sin and so that are in hell, not in the purgatory). While in orthodoxy you can't say if someone is too deep in hell to be saved.
Not to mention the visions of cucktholic mystics "saints" who talk about a rain of souls in hell... who stop any hope. So in catholic theology there is hell, a place with no hope, and it's easy to get there and it's said to be filled with sinners. While in orthodoxy there is always hope.

Probably get sent to heaven as a punishment

I heard a pastor say once that no one goes to hell against their will, and that by definition, if you don't want to go to hell, that will make you repent.

Also I think it was Hans urs von Balthasar, a catholic theologian, who proposed that hell is empty.

So yeah, damnation of eternal separation from God is more complex than do sin-go hot place.

>And so, in papism there can't be hope of salvation for murderers or people who fucked... before their death

What. No.

God's grace allows that a confession of your true heart can absolve you of even mortal sins.

Yeah, also reality is more complex than the binary "God exists or does not exist". The answer is somewhere in the middle.

YES

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>Hell is a state of mind.
This, but becoming our reality after death.

We put ourself in hell by our own. The idea of God wanting his justice to be satisfied and sending people to hell is a papist blasphemy. Become orthodox.

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Indeed, my point is still the same. Perfect contrition doesn't change the fact that for the catholic saints there is hell and hell is eternal, that there is lots of people in hell and that it's easy to get there in their own opinion too.

Hans urs von Balthasar goes against your own saints. So maybe your saints (and so your spiritual tradition) are shit, or you are shit now. von Balthasar said this because he have read the church fathers and saint Gregory of Nyssa (he was part of the patristic renewal before and during Vatican II) that have hopes for the salvation of the worst sinners. But he made his own shitty theology, no one never said that the hell is empty (even the ones who talked about the purgatory). So he added something not catholic, contradicting all the catholic tradition, but furthermore, he deformed the real christian tradition too (that of the church fathers) by fabricating his own not traditional idea.
Just to say that catholic saint are in spiritual illusion and that their tradition is shit and that nothing they can try to hide it will change this fact.

Hell is a real concept.

As real as love.... or faith.

Anyone else on Earth saying anything different, is not one to be believed.

>Eternal hellfire seems pretty harsh for 80 or so years of sinning on earth.
This seems oddly commonsensical now that you say it

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Hell is preferable to living with god. Fuck the holy spirit, Fuck the holy spirit, and Fuck the holy spirit.

Yes but you forgot some things. To answer OP's question, Hell isn't ontologically different from heaven. At the eschaton (end of world) the light of God's energy will envelop the world and those who are worthy with a good will in this life will become participants of his divine nature (heaven) or will burn (hell). This is the view of Orthodox Christianity.

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>Imagine a sphere of metal, vast as the sun
sounds like that apparition in the Portugal Fatima sightings. It was a UFO btw

Christian's are fucked in the head. Forever and always

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Catholics you mean

cope

Soul not mind.

Hell is other people.

You got quads but anyway.
Read the greek.

There is a different word used for hell : αἰώνιον meaning long lasting, lasting for an age, lasting for life,... From αἰών (aiṓn, “age, eon”)
Used for exemple in 2 Thess. I, 9 and in Apoc. 19, 3
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/αἰώνιος

Then, there is another word for eternal (that apply to God only) : ἀΐδιος
saintebible.com/greek/aidios_126.htm

The fathers of the Church make the distinction because it's important to understand that while the fire is unquenchable, the repented sinners can escape it.

For your apocalypse quote I haven't found anything like this, the thing close used the word αἰώνιον.
For the contrast between everlasting punishment and life everlasting, it's still not a proof, as it can still mean long in the two cases.
Also :
>The reason is that God refuses all further grace to the damned
Blasphemy.

Clock's ticking, user. You only have this life in which to repent, and no amount of cope will save you.

Yet, the orthodoxy have still the hope for the salvation of all, and that's what matters.

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How does something literally burn you if you don't have nerve endings to feel the pain

Hell is real? Where is it? How do I get there?
>inb4 god

You die

You do have nerve endings after the General Resurrection. Before then it's just spiritual fire.

>Materialism on my Yea Forums

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Hell is what sinners have always wanted and worked toward. A world without goodness, without God. Complaining that God gives people what they want seems like the complaint of someone who would never be happy under any circumstances no matter how generous or forgiving God is. I guess that's a pretty common complaint in Hell.

I've been to hell, hell is an enjoyable experience. Although it is technically a form of torture you are rewarded for your sins

Nice, thanks for the heads up

based

No, hell is just the revenge fantasy for the petty man, realizing he cannot grasp beyond himself in this world, so he makes up a lie about the next

>my crimes aren't so bad, I don't deserve so much time, judge!
Any decent judge would tack on another year for that,and God is a perfect judge.
Repent.

spiritual/mental illness, then you die, then you suffer for not being able to do faggot things everyday for example. So you have figures of this in this world, the fact you loose your body makes it more important, you will go where your tendencies leads you into the universal indefinite realm of possibilities. If your tendancies are for the Good you will "go up" if it's for inferior things you will "decrease". If you looked up during your life you will go up, if you looked down you will go down (sub-human) the body being lost, there won't be as many limits to your spiritual journey.
Hell is like suffocating under your own passions and bad sentiments, under your own ego.
Hope it helps.

i'm pretty sure you're prone to adaption, like, after a while you evolve in hell and you're kinda just bored then

>everyone is mocking catholic church
Feels bad, i didnt choose it.

no it ain't real you stonard

to expand on this i was sent to the 2nd circle of hell, my punishment was that I would spend eternity in a cramped rusty cage, one of hundreds. Although for some reason this cramped cage didn't feel cramped, there was a sense of energy there that made it possible to spend the rest of my days there not in pain but just sort of aware of my world. To the right of my cage was my ex-gf painfully thin in another cage and above me was another ex-gf again in a similar cage. Outside the cage was a ten foot minotaur with a club that would beat the walls of the cages that he had to tend to, if you got out of line or if he didn't like you. I believe that although I could see, I didn't have a face, just a dark empty abyss where my face was. There is some kind of energy in hell though that allows you to live through it without feeling any real sort of pain, you just become part of that world.

No you answered none of my questions. I want to know specifically what part of me travels to hell, how it does that - by that I mean what mechanism and what medium it uses. I want to know the specific location of hell within this universe. If I can go there by dying can we also in turn travel to its location whilst alive?

We're living in it right now.

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What the fuck

No one knows

>literature?

Hell is not "punishment" like prison. You get there's for refuting God and preferring to Him passing things.

What a disgusting sentiment of pure self denial. You go out of your way to hate that which has been naturally given to you, the ability to make mistakes and learn from them. So, instead, you employ this artificial scheme that is supposedly better than that which has been naturally given to you, which you call obedience to God. You're basically a tranny of the soul

> why does god want to ISIS torture what amounts to let's face it like 99.999% of all humans based on his autistic laws
God has allready done almost too much for you. He vent his own rules to give anyone of His creatures a chance and he even died for them.
The plano truth of the matter is that everyone deserves to go to hell, period. It's only because God loves us that some dont, and even then He won't force someone to love Him back.

Based

>Orthodoxes are barely Christian the post.
Important some more eastern fucked y in your (((Christianity))) Iván I'm sure God/Tengri will be pleased.

>Hans urs von Balthasar,
An heretic.
Hell is not empty. This is known.

Complete ad hominem. The ability to make mistake and repenting from them is the fundation of the Sacramento of confession. The problem here is YOU, Because You don't really believe You can make a mistake, ever. Tell that to Satan when You see him.

80 years of the human condition is hell.

Because eternity differs from time. If want to read up on it, look up the first book, first part, of the Summa Theologiae.

>We put ourself in hell by our own. The idea of God wanting his justice to be satisfied and sending people to hell is a papist blasphemy. Become orthodox.

/thread
Man, I love orthodoxy.

>ftm
>male

Protestants also believe this. Jesus Christ often talked about the choices we make which can put us on a path that does not lead to eternal life. So the choice is always yours, and its out of God's hands whether you go to heaven or hell because of free will.

It is real but you get time off if you support Theravada monks...

Your psyche goes to another universe. There is no specific mechanism I know, it's just that your "travel" ontologically with your consciousness. But I can't describe this with words, only with analogies taken from our world. You travel as in a dream if you go up, as in a nightmare if you go down.
Why do you travel outside of our physical world ? Because the existence is not limited to it, and your own is not neither.

If that's the only part you're focusing on, then Catholics believe that too. Do you believe the punishment of Hell is eternal?

You already know right from wrong. You were born knowing that. It's instinct. You only make mistakes because you have sinned and are fallen. Yet you'll insist that "morality is just a social construct" rather than your fallen nature and your conscience being something you're born with. You're the trans-enabler of the soul.

There is more in christian Tradition than you think. All I say is in the Tradition. But catholics don't really understand the tradition because of their new dogmas and their principle of living tradition (meaning the tradition being able to contradict itself, like the pope being against all the church fathers with papal infallibility). Catholics know nothing about the tradition because they don't care about it.
XXth century orthodox saints like saint Païssios prayed for souls in hell and saved them.

Humans who die leave their bodies behind and undergo particular judgment and those found wanting in faith by God go to Hell. Those with faith in Christ go to Heaven. At the end of the world, the souls in both Heaven and Hell are reunited with their resurrected bodies and undergo a final universal judgement, and are either cast bodily into Hell or dwell eternally with God on a new earth. Hell gets worse once you get a body.

I admit that what we do and do not know of hell is rather vague. But I will say that Jesus Christ made it clear that the only way to the Father is through Him, and then outside of Him there is only hell, meaning eternal separation from God. Jesus Christ also made it clear that the choices we make while we are alive are paramount in determining our ultimate fate, and that there is no hope once you are dead and outside of Christ. So hell would inevitably be eternal. Now as to what form that would take, i.e. eternal punishment, or merely eternal non-existence, I can't really be sure, but I think it's better to err on the side of caution and assume eternal punishment.

Catholicism is the ONE keeper of Tradition. Period. You don't even recognize the Successor of Peter and have the ARROGANCE to try to use Tradition against anybody.
Truly there's nothing But hell for your kind.

Protestants believe in predestination, Luther believed it and believed humans have no free will.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Bondage_of_the_Will
People in hell are just not predestined to heaven by God according to him (following blessed augustine on this).
It goes against the orthodox notion of synergeia between God and the human free will and it makes Him saving arbitrarily some people.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination#Protestantism

>born just to go to hell

>create a race of people in a way that causes most of them to behave badly
>put them all in hell for it
Sounds like a sadistic game of sins.

seems kinda unfair

>the Successor of Peter
its the same as papal infallibility or the right do decide doctrine.
we do recognise the suspension of Peter but not in a retarded way.

Even for Catholics, Balthasar is not necessarily heretical, hell can be considered ontologically identical to heaven (not necessarily so by dogma, though), and we may hope for the salvation of all souls so long as "the way is narrow", etc are not rejected.
Hell is eternal only because the sinner's choice of their sin is as well. It is a mattrr of justice that the sinners be in this hell, but goodness and mercy also require it. These 8aims call for the same action.

your popes says and said jews are our big brother in the faith, they kiss their boots. Popes now promote sexual equality. All this in total contradiction with all the christian tradition. Go read your own church positions about that. There is 0 proof for the infaillibility, 0 church fathers or even catholic saint talking about it before it's promulgation yet all church fathers were against it and against the primauty of jurdidication, saint john Chrysostom or even saint augustin in his "retractatio" said it. Sorry but the patriarch of Antioch also can say he is the successor of Peter since this siege has been founded by saint Peter too. The popes, hungry for power, now wants to conform more than ever to the world in order to still be seen as relevant.
Sorry but the tradition is defended in orthodoxy, and there is a place for you there.

I know Calvinists believe in predestination. I'm not sure about Lutherens.

But not all protestants believe in predestination.

sweet, so in orthodoxy you can just live like you want to and don't even have to keep in mind to repent on your deathbed

I don't know about every single denominations and their evolution but Lutheranism had predestination historically, following Luther. Now of course the private interpretation of scriptures being a rule of protestantism, everyone can have their own fabricated opinion there (which is ridiculous for a religion).
Still the other protestant principle of "saved by faith not by work" tends people more toward predestination and the negation of free will :
>Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”. This verse, taken alone can easily be misinterpreted.

orthodoxy doesn't tell you if there are levels of hells where you cannot come back from. In fact some say there is, some there is not. But the most important is the fact the two opinions are accepted since traditional, and that all say we should hope for the salvation of all. But you could still be the looser that's can't save himself, and that's a real risk, of course if you never work for your salvation, you won't be able to be saved.
But remember hell can be really long and really horrible.

I don't see how Ephesians 2:8-9 could steer people towards predestination and the negation of free will. You have a choice whether to have faith in God or not, and through faith alone are you saved by the grace of God. If anything, that passage is speaking about the choice we have to make to either have faith in God or not.

Read 'the duration of hell' by Borges, you'll probably find it interesting.

Also, the human life is the better, more effective moment to repent, you must try to avoid the Gehenna of fire.

>and that not of yourselves
the faith is not of yourself according to Luther in this passage. That's a possible interpretation. And logical from someone who wants to deny the value of human work, even what would be the work of having faith.

Everyone has a choice.
Belive in Jesus Christ.
He is real and he will come again

Hell is real and we're in it.

Maybe the reincarnation is the real hell?

That's a pretty crazy interpretation, imo. The way I see it, the "and that not of yourselves" bit is further emphasizing that true salvation comes from God by grace, and it is through faith that this grace is imparted on us. So at the end of the day, God does the saving, but it is only through faith in God that God can save people, and there in lies the choice of free will to either choose God or reject Him.

Any other interpretation of that line would not be biblically substantiated.

yes maybe for the first part. Crazy interpretation made by crazy people, (but not, on a pure grammatical point of view, not necessarily a false explication). All I did was showing you some errors of the protestants, historical errors that shows the falsehood of their doctrine (I posted links). Now go look at the debate for yourself if you are interested.
But for the second part of your post, there are other verses (from saint paul) used for the negation of free will, so it's more complicated.