Whoever reads me in Germany today has first de-Germanized himself thoroughly, as I have done: my formula is known...

>Whoever reads me in Germany today has first de-Germanized himself thoroughly, as I have done: my formula is known, 'to be a good German means to de-Germanize oneself'; or he is -- no small distinction among Germans -- of Jewish descent. -- Jews among Germans are always the higher race -- more refined, spiritual, kind. -- L'adorable Heine, they say in Paris.
Why do anti-Semites and neo-Nazis like Nietzsche? With quotes like this it seems clear he would have despised them. Do they even read Nietzsche?

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They only ever read the sparknotes, not the finer detail

He was significantly revised by his sister after his death and presented as being anti-semitic yet pro-Germanic.

The same pretty much applies today but with America. If you want to be worth anything as a thinker you have to thoroughly de-Americanize yourself.

what said. But also his theoretical concepts are different than his real world opinions.Saying he dislikes x race does not mean x race cannot embrace his ideology.

Neo-nazis and Fascists always misinterpret Nietzsche and only extract the Ubermensch-part from his philosophy.

this is a myth generated by the philosophical community at large that was so shocked by things like nazism and facism, that a scape goat had to be generated. The narrative that "the sister perverted the writings" is entirley baseless and you can even find several papers of people looking back for this.

Look back at the writings of Bertrand Russel, for example, during the 40s. He regularly criticized nietzche for anti-semitism and being a romantic war monger. Nietzche talked shit to every single race regularly

The truth of the matter is Neitzches thought is so paradoxical, so aphoristic, and so unique that is was entirley possible to walk away as an anti semite, even when you read all of the work. For Instance, Several actual nazis considered quotes like in the op as more of Nietzche enticing the germans to become better then the jews, through will and overcoming. Which is still compatible with antisemitism.

Your pretty right, I was being kinda reductionist to be honest. My point was that its kinda irreverent anyways, since a philosopher's opinions on things that are not exactly philosophical in nature (talking about a very specific group of people dependent on the context) is separate from the all encompassing theories that they are influential for.

Its like critisising Kant because he thought black babies were originaly white or some shit, it doesnt deny his importance to epistemology. its kind of a non-sequitur.

Because it gives sham ideologies like fascism the veneer of intellectual sophistication when it's about grabbing as much as you can for yourself using all means necessary.

So what are the real, non-sham idealogies?

Thats kind of reductionist. Thats like me saying
>Because it gives sham ideologies like marxism the veneer of intellectual sophistication when its all about grabbing as much as you can from people who have earned it using all means necissary."

Se doesnt that sound incredibly trite and unproductive?

What isn't a sham is commitment to the truth, which necessitates continually making one's expectations, desires, and perceptions questionable. Whether or not an ideology is a sham depends entirely on it's ability to inspire faithfulness to the truth as a process, not as an object held to be Absolutely True. Honesty is the wellspring of all knowledge and morality, and if one doesn't actively practice self-honesty they have no chance at truly being honest with others.

Not really, a scam is a scam, and sham ideologies are nothing more than scams in the political arena. Communism is a sham ideology as well, used to justify the displacement of one group of political scam-artists with another who then repeated the same systemic exploitation of others under a different brand. Capitalism however is the biggest sham ideology, the biggest pyramid scheme ever created.

>L'adorable Heine
What does that mean ?

>sham ideologies are nothing more than scams in the political arena.
Doesnt that theory necessitate that there is some consolidated Behind the scenes body that orcistraites everything, instead of there being a passive zeitgeist of opinions? because if not that would not explain the different people who embrace different ideologies for moral or logical reasons.
> x is Used to justifiy
That is simplistic logic. and I do not think you can support that. Motive is complex and multifaceted by nature since people are different and multifaceted making a consolidated intent dubious in the extreme.

>Doesn't that theory necessitate that there is some consolidated Behind the scenes body that orchestrates everything, instead of there being a passive zeitgeist of opinions?

Not at all, the situation is that of competition among bullshitters for a piece of the bullshit-pie. The "behind the scenes body" is a system of self-reinforcing bullshit that has emerged from thousands of years of career bullshitting.

>That is simplistic logic. and I do not think you can support that. Motive is complex and multifaceted by nature since people are different and multifaceted making a consolidated intent dubious in the extreme.

Self-deception is complex and multifaceted, which is why fighting against it is an omnipresent task. The central question however is simple: does someone have the will to approach the problems of knowledge of their area of concern? If they do, then they demonstrably engage with such problems.

It is wise to distrust simplicity, but some thing in life truly are clear: self-delusion exists, bullshit exists, and exploitation exists.

Nietzsche wasn't a Nazi or an antisemite, but he shares some similarities with these types, such as a disdain for egalitarianism/democracy/socialism/liberalism/etc. and a fixation on strength and health over weakness and degeneration. Christian morality is an impediment to their political project (eugenics, ethnic cleansing, exterminationism in extreme cases, etc.), so Nietzsche's amoralism also strongly appeals to a certain type of secular fascist.

This is from Ecce Homo (lol closet homosexual much). I’m pretty sure when Nietzsche rails against “German-ness”, he’s against what he regarded as 19th century Protestant mediocrity. After this page he spergs out about how he wishes he was polish because the winged hussars were so badass. I think Nietzsche would have been a fervrant natsoc in the early years viewing it as Germany finally achieving “greatness”, but I think he would have been disillusioned fairly early on and then one of its biggest critics (similar to the Wagner situation.) that’s just my take though.

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>Why do anti-Semites and neo-Nazis like Nietzsche?
They don't. They just like a handful of things he said about Jews.

That said, it's a shame that Hitler became only known as an anti-Semite.

>Why do anti-Semites and neo-Nazis like Nietzsche?
His sister heavily edited his works to be pro-fascist.

nazis hate jews for the same reason as nietzsche likes them

>The narrative that "the sister perverted the writings" is entirley baseless and you can even find several papers of people looking back for this.
This is bollocks.
>Look back at the writings of Bertrand Russel, for example, during the 40s. He regularly criticized nietzche for anti-semitism and being a romantic war monger. Nietzche talked shit to every single race regularly
Russell is not a good commentator on philosophy (in this area he's a real joke) and would have read the version from Nietzsche's sister.

you can take any quotes and make anything of it but nietzsche criticized germans above all because he himself was a german and diagnosing the german sickness. he probably admired the jews for their triumph over the europeans. what he despised was the european man absorbing a religion of weakness and where some other people are god's chosen. what could be more pathetic than that?

he had no problem with the old testament or with jews. his issue was with germans adopting christianity.