If video games are an art form, are they derived from an Apollonian or Dionysian aesthetic?

If video games are an art form, are they derived from an Apollonian or Dionysian aesthetic?

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Apollonian

since to make a game needs code and code is logic then i guess Apollonian

this is reductive but also I don't have my own answer lol

But what about the aspect of non-Principium Individuationis? Aren't video games a form of escape from the self?

iirc this requires immersion into a group, perhaps multiplayer games are relevant

consuming alcohol could be considered a form of logic since one needs to understand that to become intoxicated one needs to consume alcohol, so i don't think your argument holds

Video games are crafted and constructed like marble sculptures, deep mathematical structures, world simulations. Not the simple application of logic but months of stringing together scripts and algorithms.

in order to be apart of a group, one needs to recognize his place in it, and the others to recognize him. This doesn't seem consistent with the idea of the Dionysian obliteration of the self. Nietzsche describes it as a 'oneness' with the universe. a group is still a distinct category, and categories are a separation from the greater whole of a thing

Not really, it’s just an extension. If we were to classify video games as a form of escape, then the question is: escape from what? First answer is real life, but what is real life? As it stands, man has escaped nature and “real life” heretofore with his plethora of man made inventions. Man has already escaped natural and environmental selection. Virtual reality is nothing more than a movement of human existence from one domain of darwinian selection to another.

perhaps there is a difference of degree, but ultimately logic is logic, no matter the complexity.

sure but still, a chorus is necessary to elevate one from the realm of individuation into the realm of the universal will, correct?

There’s a certain irony in using the terms individuation and universal will within the same sentence. But sure, if you mean in the sense of environmental contingencies separating the conforming from the non-conformant. Man is shaped by his environment, and now man controls his environment; what we create, we will become

>If video games are an art form
They aren't, though.
t. game dev

Most are Apollonian, very few are Dionysian
There is no sensible distinction between art and non-art

>if

>There is no sensible distinction between art and non-art
There is, though. Video games are too industrial to be art. Also I'm a dev so I know what I'm talking about.

Both. A game needs rules (Apollonian) but the player needs immersion (Dionysian)

I bet you’re a shitty programmer too that can’t see the poetry/art in well-written code.

>Video games are too industrial to be art.
What on earth do you think art is that this statement makes sense at all?

Nah I really like coding, there definitely can be craft in it, but it's also not an art.
Video games are a product like Gatorade or PC software. They aren't at the level of art masterpieces.

The vast majority of paintings and operas were commissioned, i.e. products.

Tell us what you think art is.

There's a difference between a commisioned artwork and a consumption product.
Nah I won't go into that rabbit hole again, I have to go to bed (it's 3 am here). I'm not an elitist or anything but I don't think video games are art because if they are then also board games are art.

>I don't think video games are art because if they are then also board games are art.
Obviously not all video games are art, but to say that all video games are incapable of being art seems silly. Can a book not be art? Can a movie not be art?

Also, here’s the definition of art:

noun
1.
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

A work's origins, industrial or not, do not affect its artistic value
And your occupation is completely irrelevant to the discussion
You have just ousted yourself as a turbo brainlet, please refrain from posting

It's not how they are created but what they create
Dionysian it is

Video games are toys, not art.

Video games are (potentialy) the most demanding form of art
The combine music, visuals, acting, writing and user interaction

Dionysian. Video games are about as far away from set-in-stone as you can get. Even the most simple games, like Tetris, provide enough variability that one is never appreciating the piece as-it-is, one must learn to appreciate the piece-as-process. In this way it is identical in function to song and dance; these three are based on fluid performance and are sullied if that is violated. It is why the live performances full of improvisation are better than recorded music, it is why free-form dance is more entertaining than dance with established steps, and it is why any % speedruns done in person are more entertaining than theoretically perfect TAS videos.

>so I know what I'm talking about
I'm a writer so I can call the Oddysey non-art.

If video games are an art form, they are Cygnitian.

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>a combination of writing, graphical representation, computer science, music and in some cases (nowadays at least) acting isn't art
>toys can't be art

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>"im a game dev"
>i downloaded unity a week ago and just started watching c# tutorials
ftfy

video games aren't an art form

>Apollonian
This

Dyonisian Because of the escape of self.
However the point is moot since videogames aren't an artform.

Dionysian.

This is pretty obvious.

...

Video games aren't art, but play/games are just as important to humans as art is.

They aren't. Not literature. Sage.

What is "art" ?

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Dionysian for most if not all

you underestimate the artistic value of toys

What if you just use code-monkeys to manifest your dreams?

which authors talk about this dyonisian apollonian?
coincidentally reading The Birth of Tragedy by nitxee and it's the main topic so far

>Shadow of the Colossus
>Papers Please
>Yume Nikki
>Silent Hill 2
are art

Immersion isn't enough for Dionysian, but I see your point/argument.

Most are neither, they're just shit. Depending on context they may become either, as can any other activity. I see the argument for most being Apollonian, but they're not good aesthetic specimens in general.

He's the progenitor of the idea. You can somewhat view what Schopenhauer says about overcoming the will to life and doing things like art and what not as Apollonian endeavors.