New to Philosophy

That's just more nihilism and a cope

Applying a negative value to things is not nihilism because it still assumes an axiology. There is nothing nihilistic about pessimism nor antinatalism

So why negative and not positive?

Because feels don't outweigh reals

>brooooo the univers fukin biggggg
>must mean everyting meaningless
>why?
>you MUST share our vague sentiment that justifies our selfimposed slavery empty lifestyles and complete lack of character or individuality or i will ostracise you and complain to big daddy so that he sets the dogs on you
That's not what nihilism is.

Nihilism takes the idea that we don't have access to reality and only exist within our experience, meaning reality ostensibly has no meaning as meaning is something we feel and ascribe within our experience, as somehow relevant or enlightening to the extent that it makes the decree, the assumption, that 'everything is meaningless'. Meaning is the domain of our mind or any other symbolic system (thinking AI but possible to extend to things like ecosystems) and not of reality or the fundamentals of reality. Mind cannot touch reality, it cannot comprehend it as comprehension is a negation of reality and is the creation of experience momenttomoment. Nihilism takes the opposite to be true, it says reality must have meaning somehow somewhere, as Christianity and Westerners do, then says 'gotcha' it's actually false as proof of ultimate meaninglessness. It's basically a product of one's culture and intellectual history, than some enlightened island. Taking away that assumption and actually defining meaning makes nihilism fall apart.

Wannabe Christian faggots long converted to atheism generations past yet indistinguishable. Come up with your own ideas, you fucking losers.

But pessimists are basing their view on feels, just ones of ressentiment.

Nietzche, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy (not my thing, but still good), most existentialists, the Greeks (particularly Plato), and, especially, stoics like Aurelius.

this is only one type of nihilism, so to speak. namely Christian value's nilhilism.
But there is an another type of nihilism and Yea Forums cares more on this nihilism, namely, athiest's nihilism, I love science's nihilism, rick and morty nihilism. You should be able to say something about this.

I think that's an unfair and popular meme attitude against pessimists but it's as simple as this. Optimists, whether they realize it or not, build their worldview off the assumption that their delicate sensibilities ought to be protected. Pessimists dispense with this tendency and accept that which is contrary to what is comfortable or desirable to believe. That should be considered a sort of integrity in itself.

How the fuck does that follow?

It follows because you can look at a pessimist's philosophical Outlook and say "well at least he's not protecting his feelings". Meanwhile the writings of Nietzsche of Camus bear the conspicuous Hallmark of men on a mission to find more pleasant conclusions.

You don’t even properly grasp nihilism why are you concerning yourself with these things

The optimist is most often just an annoying unbroken case of survivorship bias, but even if you came to the conclusion of optimism after dealing with some shit hitting the fan it’d still be dumb because optimists ensure problems. For example, we wouldn’t have economic recessions if it weren’t for optimistic loan letting.

That’s a bad example, I mean it’s true, but optimists ensure problems by making attempting to make them insignificant to lazily assure their view point

>At first glance compared to the vastness of the universe our actions seem like they don't matter at all.
That's a non-sequitur. Obviously things matter on this world, the fact that the universe is big or that the Earth is not the only planet has no bearing on it.

>obviously things matter on this world
Prove it

>What are some good arguements against Nihilism?
literally who tf defends nihilism to begin with?

I can't prove it, but deep down I know that the people who I interact with are people just like me , I see myself reflected in them (except niggers, of course), as well as some animals, and I feel compassion and the need to help them out just like I would need someone else to help me out.

Wait, doesn't nihilism kind of refute itself by being a dogma asserting the unreality of dogmas?Furthermore doesn't the existence of literally any axiological system then automatically supercede this untenable nihilism?

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Staying alive for curiosity's sake. Also the fact that you can't prove anything you've heard about the universe is true. Have you ever seen a star up close and personal? How can you trust a bunch of people just like you to tell you that stars exist and the universe is infinite? We can all be part of a Harry Truman show and if you kill yourself you lose. I know, Schizo ramblings.

The best known counter to Nihilism is probably religion. I don't subscribe to any but I can't help but feel when I take in life and all it's coincidences that religious people might be on to something.

>Taking away that assumption and actually defining meaning makes nihilism fall apart.
What you were saying before this made sense with me. I just get the feeling this conclusion here though would mean you're only taking away basic assumptions to leave yourself with less than nothing, you're not gaining an opportunity, and you're not giving yourself something to redefine meaning off just because you've abandoned the symbols of your cultural history as 'play toys' as I'm sure you know what I mean.

>he best known counter to Nihilism is probably religion.
As a kid I was deeply religious and it made me very nihilistic about the world, in the sense that I viewed this world as being of no importance and just assigned importance to the other world. I felt like I was actively communicating with God and I really to die to get to the other side, glad I didn't do that and converted to atheism in time.

What kind of nihilism are you talking about?

Gotta say it is pretty nihilistic to take jesus as a co-pilot

The one that says nothing has any objective value or the one that states this value cannot be known to be true. Goes by name of postmodernism.

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They matter to me, what more do you want? I am part of the universe, so the universe is not completely indifferent

>postmodernism is nihilism
hot take right here

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>They matter to me, what more do you want?
Proof that things objectively matter.

They objectively matter to me

I have only read Birth of Tragedy and the first part of Zarathustra, and some summaries of his prior work, but even to me it is clear that there's a complete misunderstanding about what nihilism is.

I don't know if it's just lack of comprehension or a willful disregard for the course of action laid out or what but it seems like every so-called nihilist stops short at what Zarathustra clearly represents.

(Very) Basically, in his earlier work, Nietzsche through nihilism, re-analysed the values and virtues that were considered a priori and found them to be a work of our culture (not the reverse), and that culture was a rationalisation of behaviour derived from our base instincts, therefore all order assumed to be bestowed from God was illusory.

But he realised that understanding everything was in a sense rooted in the base drives of man and any meaning or purpose that had thus far been attached was either a distraction or a subconscious destruction. So with Zarathustra he brings bout the Superman, as a means to overcome lacking self-awareness and a way to provide meaning through action and reflection.

How then does that translate as EVERYTHING is meaningless. It seems to me that Nietzsche was saying: "our current table of values is meaningless, let's go back to the drawing board" as opposed to "fuck life man," like the common take on nihilism.

holy shit I just noticed how pretty much nobody ridicules opinions on Yea Forums by ironically cheering them, it's always that they're directly called retards and explained why they're wrong.
DFW would be proud of you Yea Forums

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TO YOU

You're with the droves that are too afraid to speak about Postmodernism for fear of intellectual embarrassment if you think otherwise. There is no doctrine more purely nihilistic than that of Postmodernism. And no, I don't think Peterson or the majority of rightwingers who speak about Postmodernism know wtf they are talking about.

Yes to me, these things objectively matter. I'm sure you could do some brain scan shot to prove that. Still not sure what you are after.

You're asking to prove a value judgement, which is pretty much the same as providing an objective reason basis for morality. Good luck with that.

Well there's a well established folk-psychology, I believe there's a nomenclature for folk-philology as well. What you just described could mean a) You had a connection with something outside this universe b) You had an abstract enough understanding with this universe your life wasn't coordinated in it. Those are already distinct, and both certainly way different than the Orthodox type of religion that more relates to the faith required to act in a repetitive manner to avoid the abyss sort of deal. That practice based religion is not nihilism.

They matter to you, but they don’t matter to me; how should we reconcile this?
>which is pretty much the same as providing an objective reason basis for morality.
How?

>should we reconcile this?
Do we need to? I'm sure my pencil sharpener doesn't love my cat, but I do. What exactly is the problem here?

Are you calling me a pencil sharpener, user?

"He" didn't explain shit tho. He just thinks it's more intellectually robust to go along with the rest of the midwife pseuds and act like Postmodernism can't even be discussed, except to say "oh this thing is postmodern" or that thing is. It takes much bigger cahones to draw a cinture around this unwieldy idea and actually criticize it. Only a fool could say Postmodernism is not first and foremost a dispensing with axiology itself.

Midwit pseuds. Fucking autocorrect

I'm just dubious that we need every particle in the universe to be in agreement about things

>Postmodernism is essentially the claim that (1) since there are an innumerable number of ways in which the world can be interpreted and perceived (and those are tightly associated) then (2) no canonical manner of interpretation can be reliably derived
Is he wrong?

Is who wrong? Is this what Peterson says?

Ya, it is.

We don’t, but if you want to call it objective instead of subjective, you certainly should.

Well actually it's pretty reasonable. Maybe I've just falsely conflated Peterson's conception of Postmodernism with the effluvium that has come from hyper-conservative memesters.

Disagree. If the part of the universe that is me cares about my cat, then I feel justified in saying the cat matters. I don't you to agree with me for it to be objectively true to me.
It seems childish to expect 100% of the universe to agree with you before you can say something is true. You basically have to discard all human knowledge including math and geometry. To use the language of this thread, it is *more* of a cope to say nothing matters, as it gets you out of tricky commitments like buying catfood

The thing is it's just boring
The only reason I care about anything in life is because it makes it more fun and that's it

>What are some good arguements against Nihilism?
>implying

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The cat only matters to you because of the subjective value you’ve placed on it. Mathematics is not subjective because it’s universal, i.e., 1 + 1 will always equal two.

Nihilists are the biggest dorks in philosophy. Since they're not good at anything, they pretend nothing matters because that's the only way they can feel superior to anyone else.
Essentially, everyone's a nihilist until a chad starts bullying you.

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>bullying the nihilist

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>new to philosophy
Mandatory start with the Greeks

respect your own subjectivity you clown

>life has no meaning everybody is going to forget in 1000 years

>1000 children are currently freezing to death in a room

Do we care or do we aply the same logic that no ones gonna care in 1000 years anyway

Doesn't he instead derive enjoyment from espousing a pessimistic outlook?

I love watching atheists being tortured by their incoherent worldview.

>What are some good arguements against Nihilism?
There aren’t any LMAO

Check