Can Moldbug resolve the Sprenglerian question with his "Formalism" alternative

>he doesn´t believe in west civ

not a buzzword bucko!

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>Plutocracy
No thanks, I´d rather have nuclear apocalypse than any more of this american bullshit.

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>buzzword
>let me use three words instead that more or less convey the same thing except void of historical connotations, so that I don't piss off my pretentious lefty peers

What? You've had borderline socialism since when women were given the vote.

>You've had borderline socialism
And that's a good thing, as we've avoided the breakdown of civilized society as witnessed in America. Socialism is the answer to the problems Moldbug complains about, but ironically he's too pozzed by the prevailing discourse in America to see it

sort of interesting perspective

We´ve had 40 years of blatant socialism, since the Russians came. I would take that over giving even more power to the merchants.

Youve had borderline socialism in america. The rest of the world is outright commie
I hope This comes to pass and You get your opportunity to be deported to the gulags as You obviously richly deserve.

>Socialism is the answer to the problems Moldbug complains about,
Socialism is the problem Moldbug complains about.

The ideal system of government is an aristocratic republic. It worked for Rome, it worked for Venice, and it worked for the early United States, and it was precisely when the system was changed that all three of those polities started to go to shit.

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No, but superintelligent AI can replace human civilisation and make the Western project worthwhile by having it give birth to post-human life.

not exactly, Moldbug thinks of progressivism as an even more dangerous strain of left wing ideology than socialism.

Well I would definitely agree that there's a distinction. Progressivism is really a descendent of Liberalism more than Socialism.

that guy is a computer programmer

I'd say no, but it can be what comes next.

This guy had a PhD in Math from an Ivy League university and a paper with 50 citations before he was 20. This guy is a dotcom millionaire who's friends with Peter Thiel. Google is so afraid of this guy that him attempting to enter their premises literally triggers an alarm.

he does, but he claims that muh invisible hand will fix literally everything

Noooo he doesn't. He devotes pages upon pages to criticizing naive Libertarianism. Why do people always pile him in with them?

>"There's not as much difference as people think. "
AKA
>"I don't want people to think there's a difference."

I just don't want to make fully general assumptions without being well-read in either field.

Damn, to me he sounds like a doctor super mega genius to me

the best argument against Nrx is that all its advocates are spergs, queers and other obvious genetic failures, who exhibit obvious signs of racial degeneracy

>This guy had a PhD in Math from an Ivy League university and a paper with 50 citations before he was 20
wtf i love the cathedral now
sounds like he should be in charge of public policy. isn't that what academic credentials are for?

Why would you say they're not very different if you don't know what you're talking about

>who's friends with Peter Thiel.
Thiel and Moldbug are homosexual lovers and no amount of evidence will convince me otherwise

Academy is here to produce experts, not thinkers.

Well I think I know enough to say at least that.

It's weird that he's not dead yet, it's probably because he is only readable to genuine autistics. In some chapters you barely have to read between the lines to see that he's pointing at the eternal glownigger.

Berkeley is not an ivy league school. Source on google claim?

My mistake.

Source:
www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/01/08/conservative-bloggers-visit-to-google-hq-triggered-security-panic/

>biological organisms are just machines intended to spread genes

>Reportedly
>alleges
>According to
>Presumably
>would
wow, i guess it's true then!

>This guy had a PhD in Math from an Ivy League university and a paper with 50 citations before he was 20.
Please stop with the fake news, it's not doing any good.

You can check the sources - it's in Damore's lawsuit files. Also there's literally a screenshot on the page

urbit.org/posts/a-founders-farewell

Not fake or news 2bh.

He didn't get the PhD title, he dropped out.

Oh well, excuse me for not remembering it correctly. Any case, think that was about the time he started his first startup. Don't remember exactly though.

The Venetian decline started when the republic became aristocratic barring common folk from rising through the ranks. The only thing we can discuss is whether the consolidation of capital and political power is inevitable in all societies or not.

holy fuck i dont understand what urbit is

It's a personal server project aimed at decentralizing the internet built from the ground up. Curtis has had that idea for a while until Thiel's influence gave him the money to actually build it.

The kind of utopia that Curtis and his fellows' describe is too devoid of tradition, hierarchy coming from God and Nature and religio in the roman sense; could be an improvement over the mess we have now, but in the end it's just another soulless project by big-brained autists.

As per Moldbug, Nrx is never supposed to be an actual ruling ideology. It's supposed to stir the pot and get people thinking so that an actual ruling ideology can come into being.

I agree that it's pretty cope, though. But then, so is everything political in this era.

Then why don't they still exist, user? I love 1660-1918 england's government (aristocratic oligarchy) to bits, but it contained the seeds of its own destruction. There was every incentive for factions of the elite to try to temporarily boost their own power by expanding the franchise (ie, 1832, 1867), and this happened until the system faded away because of it.

Have to mention here that most competitive != best. Even though Democracy ended up winning, it's not at all necessary that it's good.

Yeah I agree entirely, but as moldbug is keen to argue there needs to be a new design that is not prone to entropic forces (ie democratization). I think Neocameralism legitimately would restore what was good about the governance systems we've both mentioned, but would be an improvement insofar as it'd permanently abolish politics.

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so he has absolutely no qualifications in any of the topics he talks about?

FPBP

Qualifications dont matter if the ideas are good

his ideas aren't good though

The human heart beats about two billion times before the body expires. If you think there's any meaningful comparison to be made between an iPhone and the contents of a cell's nucleus, it seems to me that you're a silly goose.

Because nothing lasts forever, at least nothing that's made by humans. But aristocracy has a longer lifespan than most systems of government. Consider "modern" America, which could be thought of as a mass democracy with the expansion of the franchise and the repeal of things like the 17th Amendment. About a hundred years on and it's already looking like it's falling apart. Even when Rome turned into an empire, it had almost 800 years as an aristocratic republic beforehand. Aristocracy and republic are resilient.

You faggots don't even read
Spengler wrote that private armies will be common in the 21 and 22 centuries.
A private state is not going to stop the "decline" of the west. It is part of the process of cesarism that comes with the winter of all civilizations.
We have till around 2250 until "being Western" is as impossible as being an "imperial Roman" is now.

The new world order to take its place is already being built and has been for about a century.

We are moving towards more control, not less. The population's ability to fight will be sapped further even as the ways people obey are perfected.

When Rockefellers started prussian model school for the US, it was explicitly designed to make obeyers, not thinkers. And mission accomplished. Common core is taking the next step in that process.

China is perfecting social scores and public surveillance, while the old west is perfecting tracking us through phones and smart appliances, following and listening even if you yourself don't have any.

I don't see why people are expecting a collapse when this new order already has control over the important reigns.

Technology is still moving forward and the efficiencies that further AI and robotization will bring means there is unlikely to be a collapse unless one is planned to occur.

what can we do?

It will though

If only I had a good answer to that question.

>The only thing we can discuss is whether the consolidation of capital and political power is inevitable in all societies or not.
The spice must flow.

As said, there is no collapse coming in the near future just read the book (decline of the West is a misnomer )
Privately owned armies and cesarism doesn't mean less control.
Are you one of those americans that think more private sector = more freedom?

Well, first of all you're not comparing like with like.

It wont tho.
You see the invisible hand fixing google, apple, Twitter and Facebook all being converged?

>I don't see why people are expecting a collapse when this new order already has control over the important reigns.
Because it rests on a fundation of robbery and rank dishonesty, and shit tends to float in water no matter How hard You try to push it down.

Who the fuck are these nobodies?

oh shit he posted a map with zero context that means he has a point

>not using aikido techniques to redirect the fall of civilisation onto china

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>That's exactly What drumpf is doing

I like China more than the West though.

>Besides, biological organisms are just machines intended to spread genes, they're just really shittily engineered.
HA
what an e. coli can do in a few seconds without a mind it requires entire research teams and millions of dollars to replicate

I don't see how that's contradictory.

maybe if your standards for quality engineering is beyond anything ever made on earth

Evolution has had a lot more time than us and we're already pretty far in. If an intelligence was put in charge of designing self-reproducing devices, I'm sure we could cut the project time by a few million years.

This must be the most brainlet opinion I've ever read.

Well that's not very nice.

>rich nerd with a savior complex
No thanks.

I'm sorry But It's true.
Evolution as We know it must have taken uncountable mutations. No (natural) intelligence We can conceive of would accelerate This process even by a bit.

You litteraly described socialism with 100% accuracy

That's nice. He's still stupid as shit.

Meh, I'd disagree. I don't see how it follows from countless mutations that the process couldn't be improved.

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Not an argument.

We don't have the processing power to improve countlessly. Nothing We'll be able to feasibly build in the next few million years will. Very easy.

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I'm sorry, I think your standard is too high for the evidence that I possess to satisfy. Therefore there's no point in further discussion.

But we don't have to bruteforce it. Even the most basic algorithms could do better.

>A L G O R Y T H M
Jesus fuck, no it wouldn't. Cells allready follow a "algorythm" of sorts when they mutate or reproduce based on the presence of intoxicants, food etc.
This too has been optimized for billion years.
You have no idea of the fuvking numbers involved. Stop humiliating yourself please.

I feel you're just taking it down an organization level with the cells though. I also don't get how the numbers have anything to do with it either.

You're being willfully obtuse

He's trying to break out of Spengler's civilizational cycle model?

Where can I read about this? What's his argument?

No, he just wrote several books' worth of blog posts critiquing the current state of the world and offering solutions, both from the right. More autistic than Spengler, but in any case should be required reading for the modern Right-Winger IMO.

Governments aren't chosen based on merit (cause and effect) they're an expression of the inner will of a culture (destiny). This is something Spengler implies but he could never admit because he hated democracy and had romantic ideals of monarchism. When Disraeli expanded voting to more plebs he did it primarily because he knew liberalism is the zeitgeist of modernity, and he used that to gain favor with the masses. I point to how successful democratic America has been in the last couple hundred years. The decline of America is because people stopped giving a shit about the idea of America, not the decline of America. The second Punic war between Rome and Carthage, when those states were at their peak condition, is homologous to our World Wars; afterwards the Roman people stopped caring about Rome just as modern Americans stopped caring about America. I also point to the modern EU which is marching down a steady road towards federalization and its constituent countries don't care (Brexit is an anomaly). States decline because people stop caring about the national idea, not some form of government.

This, but unironically.
God never existed, but we will create one.

>lumping the Turkish areas with the Saharan areas
Yikes. Try living overseas - you'll see that the Westerners (defined as Western Europe, the Anglosphere and Romania) team up, and the Turkic and Slavic people team up. It also falls more along culture than along race.
The non-European Arabs cliqued up with themselves as well and would glare at me when I went to Muslim areas. The local Muslims were friendly, but the Arab muslims tended to not want me there.

If the price of truth and intellect is a jawline like that... not worth.

>truth

>not the decline of America.
Not the decline of democracy*

Most people who care about politics look like shit.
Chads usually don't give a fuck

>intellect

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At least he reproduced unlike you lmao

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This. The only nature humanity has is to transcend. The coming singularity will complete the storyline of mankind. There will be no struggle or suffering, humanity will just be peacefully sunsetted.

I don't but that a zeitgeist as a force of history out of the hands of classes of people. Social elites determine what happens, and then label it a 'zeitgeist or 'moral arc of the universe or whatever. For example, around 70% of Britons agreed with Enoch Powell's anti-immigration 'Rivers of Blood' speech, but there was no real change in policy because Britain's ruling class was overwhelmingly hostile to it. The mood of the country was firmly against immigration, but nothing came of it.

But doesn't that reinforce the idea that the masses are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things? For most of the traditional period it was the nobility and clergy that ran things. The wealthy bourgeoisie emerged as the third estate that effectively overtook the position of both the nobility and clergy. Anyone outside of these 3 groups has no political power.

Kill yourselves, cultists

>we’ve avoided the breakdown of civilised society
Damn bongs are so stupid lol
But imagine being gullible enough to think that your butterknife confiscating hellhole, in which education is in the gutter, churches are turning into golf courses, wages have stagnated, and nothing good is being produced is still highly civilized

Imagine being this weak against his ideas

Turks are nothing like slavs you blithering idiot

Yeah, that's what I was trying to argue in my post. All 'history from below' is completely misleading if you're trying to understand how politics has worked

One day you will understand

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But that's not absolute monarchy, user.

Like, switch the two women and We have it.

But then it loses the humor value.

Fair enought

neither of them are ''really'' white tho

Turkics (e.g. Kazakhs) can be pretty mixed.

What humor?
It's literally the enlightened view of things, there is no point in caring about the little petty human bullshit anymore.