How do I see the sun?

youtube.com/watch?v=0s2H0ScJSMY

Well the only reason is to acquire greater metaphysical understanding of the nature universe. Presumably this scratches a particular itch for a certain type of person. For purposes of biological survival and practical agency, recognition of the Forms doesn't do much for you. As organisms our functions are keyed to our sensory impressions around which we can successfully navigate practical affairs. Recognizing the Forms just helps you to see that the universe is based on an object-oriented programming paradigm.

Read the start of Thus Spoke Zarathustra. Don't read the whole thing, you won't get it yet. Then begin your journey into the desert or up the mountain or whatever metaphor you're going with.

if you don't understand the essence of a thing, if you have no coherent form of it's nature, then you will be deceived and tricked by mere appearances, for example a transexual pretending to be a woman might get you to think it' a real woman and gender is a social construct. Then the next day it might revert back to a man.
Or you might find an imperfect triangle in real life whose angles add to 182 degrees and so you submit your finding to your twitter followers, thinking you've found an exception to Euclid's laws, only to be mocked and ridiculed for misunderstanding the nature of triangles. Because you lack the understanding of "natures" and essences then you will be susceptible to deception by shifting appearances and language games.

What is the difference between a Form and a deifinition?

a form is something you intuitively grasp or come to know through pure intellect, for example the form of triangle or triangularity, is independent of any particular triangles you come across empirically.

definitions are linguistic/symbolic expressions that may or may not approximate a form correctly.

But in both the examples you gave, a simple definition will suffice:
>a woman: a human organism with no Y chromosome
>a triangle: a geometric shape bounded by 3 line segments
So aren't Forms kind of... redundant?

>a woman: a human organism with no Y chromosome
How many chromosomes have you directly inspected recently?

None. And what is the point here?

You have picked a particularly abstruse definition. It's not even scientism, it's pretty much "ifuckinglovescience" bullshit. You saw a program on TV when you were a kid (probably with a friendly ifuckinglovescienceman) and it told you that men have XY and women XX sex chromosomes, you felt really clever for remembering this fact and learning of this unseen mystery. It doesn't change that a "woman" in day to day experience is, at best in this vein of things, a phenotypically defined category with genetics being pretty much incidental to that. You're young pride has blinded you to the real world, you bazinga'd yourself.

The triangle is simply a polygon with three sides. It can have any side lengths given that the two smaller add to strictly greater than the larger, and its angles are computed from the side lengths.
There is no "form of triangularity", there are certain properties all triangles have.

based
fuck platofags

Live in the moment, thought is action, the sunlight radiating. Thought as a pause or pondering is the action projected on the wall.

>a "woman" in day to day experience is [...] a phenotypically defined category
Many dumb things happen in "day to day experience".

Maya

is it summer already

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How do I become a puppeteer?

Like we take cheek swabs of everyone we meet, wash them in foetal lamb blood to get them into metaphase, then match chromosomes under a microscope.

I'm not a fan of puppeteers

Watch Being John Malkovich over and over and over and over...

So I guess trannies are officially women now, because they kind of look like women I guess.

If you mistake them for a woman i.e. they do that thing they call "passing", then for all intents and purposes they are a woman. You're up against things like barn facades at that point.

>If you mistake them for a woman i.e. they do that thing they call "passing", then for all intents and purposes they are a woman.
No. Even if a guy manages to "pass" a woman, he's still a man.
Once a stick-bug succesfully masquerades as a stick, does it stop being an insect and become a plant instead?
Give me a fucking break.

>No. Even if a guy manages to "pass" a woman, he's still a man.
It is your justified true belief that they are a woman, again stuff like barn facades come into play.

Once a stick-bug succesfully masquerades, and the human observer has "justifiable true belief" it is just a stick - does the insect become a plant?

You may want to look into the concept of "justified true belief", but if they have it they have it.

You're right. I've looked it up.
The belief, that a man in makeup is a woman, fulfills only 2 criteria of Justifiable True Belief:
>the observer thinks it's a woman
>the observer has valid reasons to think so
But the third criterion (P is true) is not fulfilled.

>But the third criterion (P is true) is not fulfilled.
You need to read more if your source hasn't discussed the metaphysical nature of truth.

Dialectic.

but this is the most comfy board

I'm not a fan of using the cave analogy to discuss metaphysics, it speaks much more to the nature of social constructs and ideology in my opinion. We all know that this inherent truth in the relation between the perceived object and the perceiving object will never be found nor understood, so we might as well focus on what we can actually grasp and render tangible.

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this.

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I always thought the point of it was that you can never trully see the sun. As far as you can tell, what seems like the sun may just be another wall of shadow puppets.

What I took from it was just that there always could be an expansion to reality that you are unaware of. We are all slaves to the infinite, and the best thing is to just accept it and maintain aloofness to reality, knowing that it may not be what it seems.

I agree that you can take a Zizekian interpretation of it, and view the shadows as "ideological blinders" and the sun as the unvarnished social reality. But I think the greater message is that appearances can be deceiving, and that even if you can't "grasp the sun" --the noumenon, you can still become acquainted with its existence by exiting the cave.

I think the ideological interpretation is a subset of the metaphysical interpretation. The ideological view maps to the broader abstraction of the metaphor.

You could also read a Kantian view into it. The shadows are phenomenal percepts, while the sun is the Thing-in-Itself, the true foundation of reality unfiltered by the senses.

I sometimes wish I could be as comfy as Zizek.

I think it has some value in metaphysics if you know some quantum. The wavefunction is the platonic form of the particle- the most fundamental being, which cannot be directly perceived due to limitations of the senses. The particle as we perceive it is the shadow.

That you can see the sun, and it is blinding, wise user. Mouthless eyes see it, eyeless mouths speak it to illuminate it in the mind

This analogy could be better summed up with
>If you remain in darkness long enough, you'll eventually shirk away from the light unless you make it point to expose yourself to it.

by being born in the realm of the material (demiurge´s kingdom)

Read P.D. Oupensky’s ‘A New Model of the Universe’ and try not to get a headache when he starts talking about the fourth dimension and how it relates to esotericism.

Also this, that book changed my fucking life. Oupensky even has a full chapter on that book and its interperetations so his book is a good companion piece for understanding Zarathustra’s ideas, not that they need to be fully understood conciously.

based

But can you be sure those blinding rays are direct? could they simply be distorted by a particularly reflective piece of flint on the wall?

I think you need someone who has seen the sun

>I saw the sun and it opened up my eyes, I saw the sun
What did the Ace of Base mean by this?