I tried to tell my mother that feelings such as anger and sadness are affections dictated by circumstances and how they...

>it was all cognitive dissonance and gibberish
Can you recall a single sentence of what she said? Even the basic gist of her argument?
>Someone fucks me over, i will feel anger and hatred towards that person, and will want to afflict him with pain.
But you do not have to, you choose to. The mind does not have to be influenced by that which you deem inadequate. Your emotions are within your control.

If your mother didn't provide a strong enough argument, then I shall argue again for her. C'mon friend, lets have a classic Yea Forums debate. If you have time, of course.

Our question, correct me if I'm wrong, is
>How much control does one have over their own emotions?
Now, the obvious answer would be this;
>Emotions are separate and distinct from the cognition (or Soul, or the Self, or Inner Voice, whatever.) They produce an influence upon the mind which causes it's effects. Anger, from primordial animal instincts, may be activated by someone damaging that which the subconscious considers it's property. It is an automated response of the hidden faculties of our mind.

I argue this;
>IF the emotions are distinct, and therefor not under the control of, the mind, then there must be some bridge that connects the unconscious, non-controlled faculties with the Self, soul, inner voice, whatever.
FOR INSTANCE; An event causes anger instinctively within the brain, NOT within the conscious part, but first the unconscious animistic part.
There MUST be some connection between these parts, though. Otherwise, animistic instincts wouldn't influence the mind, and that clearly isn't the case. There is a certain bridge where the subconscious emotions enter into the consciousness. This could perhaps be a physical symptom of an upset stomach, when someone is nervous. HOWEVER; At the point where it lands into the domain of the consciousness, it must fall under it's control. For instance, the REACTION TO the upset stomach, or the nervousness.

Or would you argue that there is sections of the consciousnesses that are uncontrollable? I don't want to put words in your mouth. So, tell me, are there sections of the consciousness uncontrolled by the conscious? Have I misinterpreted your point?

I argue, that anything the consciousness has control over is part of the conscious, while anything not under it's control is the animistic subconsciousness.

Attached: uh oh.jpg (877x630, 40K)

>Even the basic gist of her argument?
Think positively to override the bad emotions is basically what she says.

>Control consciousness
What do you even mean by this? I can't switch my consciousness of at a whim either, i wish i could. I don't think we have any free will and even less do i think that i can control what i think. Hard determinism. Besides, feelings are in the body, it is a bodily reaction. The next time you are anxious or angry, feel it in your upper chest, solar plexus and throat area. Mind and body are two sides of the same coin. You feel something (in the body), and thoughts accompany it in parallel.

>FOR INSTANCE; An event causes anger instinctively within the brain, NOT within the conscious part, but first the unconscious animistic part.
There MUST be some connection between these parts, though. Otherwise, animistic instincts wouldn't influence the mind, and that clearly isn't the case. There is a certain bridge where the subconscious emotions enter into the consciousness. This could perhaps be a physical symptom of an upset stomach, when someone is nervous. HOWEVER; At the point where it lands into the domain of the consciousness, it must fall under it's control. For instance, the REACTION TO the upset stomach, or the nervousness.

I don't think that just because i am aware of my emotions give me leverage to change them as i wish. BUT, it does (at times when i pay attention) distance myself a tiny tiny bit from the emotion, if i pay it enough attention. And I am not my thoughts, thoughts come and go and you don't choose them, they're domino pieces too, you can observe them. I don't know what i am, the eye can't see itself. I still don't even know what consciousness is, is it the ability to perceive? If so how does the control of consciousness manifest? What are you talking about?

Spinoza would hate you for picking a fight with your poor mother who loves you very much, OP. Were he aware of your case, he would have augmented the Ethics itself specifically to shit on faggots who "quarrel with their mother", specifying that such persons are naturally objects of scorn (closely related to hatred). He would then specify exactly what scorn is, in the appendix.

Right, because family issues is a completely foreign to Spinoza of all people lol.

Based retard NPC

The difference between my NPC programs and my mother's is that my program includes the acknowledgement that it is an NPC running a program.

She's right, you can.

Sounds like your mom is more of a stoic than you lmfao. Whatever emotions arise are still subject to restraint to the continent man.

based self aware npc

but you have no input into your internal systems? you've never willed yourself to do anything? I thought p-zombies were a thought experiment not real life

You say that as if she actually achieves just turning her anger into happiness as she wishes, which is not the case. She has been on anti depressives and lost her shit several times. She is repressing her feelings, for some reason she can't accept that she is down or sad or angry at times. I can tell that i must've annoyed you or something with what i've said.

Oh wow user, start with the Greeks. Based stoic Mom knowing that will and virtue overcome instinct and emotion

What is there to do the willing? Even if i end up doing something i didn't want initially, and it might seem to me as "raw will power", it was just the end result of weighing up the options using whatever formula i have (that includes any and all variables, genetics, environment, conditioning, subjective morals, whatever).

>everything I choose is predetermined even though I have the phenomenal experience of choice because there is some undetermined formula that might exist by which my brain is telling me that I think I think that my choice was a choice but this choice was only the illusion caused by a totally epiphenomenal process to the choice by which choice is made to seem as chosen for no particular biological or evolutionary reason whatsoever because after all it was determined by an undetermined formula not me
never seen NPC levels like this

The formula isn't undetermined

Not gonna lie, your mom sounds pretty based. You, on the other hand, seem like a loser pseud. Get a grip of yourself.

You're making it clear to everyone that i have butthurted you.

>I wonder how anyone can live such a long life and still be so oblivious to things.
reply to this post or your mother will die in her sleep tonight

>I can't switch my consciousness of at a whim either, i wish i could.
Your inner voice is out of your control? That which you think is out of your control? The visualizations and sounds heard within your head are out of your control? This may, unironically, be some kind of mental disorder. I don't mean that in a bad way, not insultingly, but OCD, I used to have it, caused this.

>I don't think we have any free will and even less do i think that i can control what i think. Hard determinism.
Do you mean ZERO direction on your part as a brain operator? You have ZERO influence on your minds direction?

>Besides, feelings are in the body, it is a bodily reaction. The next time you are anxious or angry, feel it in your upper chest, solar plexus and throat area. Mind and body are two sides of the same coin. You feel something (in the body), and thoughts accompany it in parallel.
I answered this with;
>For instance, the REACTION TO the upset stomach, or the nervousness.

You have no control over your thoughts? Surely this is our points of contention. Surly you mean to have LIMITED control and not a complete lack of control. Otherwise, was it just random chance, the thoughts that came to you, to argue against my post? Did they really spawn, fully formed inside your mind with no searching or altering or investigation on your part? That, I'm sorry, doesn't seem possible.

>And I am not my thoughts, thoughts come and go and you don't choose them,
This is our issue. This is where we've become disconnected in our argument. I say, that one can actually control their thoughts.

>I still don't even know what consciousness is, is it the ability to perceive?
No, it's the thing that does the perceiving. The receptor of the senses..
>If so how does the control of consciousness manifest? What are you talking about?
By cognition I am referring to the Operator of the body. Surely you recognize your influence and semi-control over your bodily movements? The creature which operates the body and decides it's movements. That is what I personally mean by Cognition. There;s many definitions though. It is this same being which controls the thoughts.

Attached: npc.png (376x402, 120K)

then why can't we predict peoples actions?

It seems the main problem here is that you're stuck on the idea that you have no control over anything you do. A lot of people are reacting poorly to this because they see it as a sign of fear of responsibility.
But if you aren't making excuses for your actions and are genuinely confused about the idea of free will, let me give you a thought exercise.
I want you to imagine a house.
Got it? Good.
Now look at the details of the house.
One could say that you had no real choice in thinking of the house because I prompted you to think of it, but every detail you thought of, was your choice to do so, down to the idea of how many dimensions you imagined the house to exists in (2d vs 3d).
You could also argue that you had no control over the details because you did not choose to picture those specific details. They were randomly chosen by your subconscious and therefore not your own thoughts.
But you specifically chose to think of the house. You could have chosen to ignore me and not thought of the house.
Now lets try the same experiment again.
I want you to think of a house.
Now you might think about the details of the last house or you might think to not think about a house at all.
You think these things because you are now more consciously aware of these choices.

The basic point I'm trying to make is every choice and decision you make is a subconscious one until you choose to be conscious of it.
Free will is simply the act of being aware of those choices. The idea of control comes from how aware we are and is why those who seem more aware seem more in control.

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