Are the Arthurian legends original stories or do they have pre-Christian origins?
Are the Arthurian legends original stories or do they have pre-Christian origins?
Evan Lewis
Charles Anderson
The legend of Arthur might have grown out of a Romano-British chieftain, but the stories as we know them are medieval courtly romances and are most definitely Christian.
Josiah Myers
Stop being retarded and read Evola's Mystery of the Grail.
Jack Peterson
they are mostly Celtic myths
Charles Butler
We wuz hyperboreans n shit
Liam Diaz
They may have some Sarmatian origins too.
Juan Walker
There is some evidence (especially from the Mabinogion myths and other Welsh fragments) or pre-Christian elements and origins, but most of what we associate with Arthur is distinctly medieval and created in a Christian/courtly context.
I can break down the timeline a bit if you like.
James Rodriguez
How is Arthur connected to ancient Persians?
Arthur as a character begins as a post-Roman military commander in Britain who fought the Saxons. The earliest mentions are in chronicles of the early middle ages. There may have been some slight Celtic folklore influence as the other user said. But he really comes into his own as a pseudo-historical hero king who conquered all of Britain (and often Europe as well). He most famously appears in this form in Geoffrey of Monmouth's History of the Kings of Britain in the 12th century. His stories become combined with courtly romances, especially in France, which is where our current idea of Arthur comes from, with the knights, chivalry, love affairs, and the holy grail. This tradition became solidified by Thomas Mallory's Le Mort Darthur which essentially became the canonical account in English, partly due to its wide dissemination via William Caxton's printing press, and the numerous reprints that followed. He appears in The Faerie Queene, but his popularity as a character was already declining by then, and there was little new material until his revival by the Victorians and their neo-Medievalism, which has lead to countless re-imaginings.
Bentley Flores
please do
Isaac Jones
Sarmatians were not Persians.
David Ross
Here you go, you can read about it here. Sarmatians were not Persians, but they were Eastern Iranic and migrated near Roman empire:
en.wikipedia.org
Brayden Miller
Don't bother yourself with anything other than Wolfram von Eschenbach and Wagner's Parzival/Parsifal. Oh and of course the Bible as background, the view key books at the least.
Sure Le Morte D'arthur and some of the base material for Wolfram's Parzival are entertaining and nun the less great story's, they do not however match the German creation. They found the truest elements possible and revived them via these previously obscure traditions. Before Wolfram they were but story's. Wolfram, along with Dante, form the two greatest poets of the medieval period. If we were to speak in works themselves one would say Parzival, Inferno, and the Volsungs Saga/The Nibelung.
Easton Morris
Depends. There is reliable scholarship that supports the idea of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight being an adaptation of an earlier Celtic legend. The stuff about the Grail is more tenuous, but I am partial to believing it's a Christianised cornucopia.
As for the rest /thread
Most of the distinct stories in the Arthurian canon i.e. Lancelot and Guinevere, Yves and the other courtly romances, were the works of Christian troubadours working within a distinct genre. It's more akin to a medieval spy novel or any similarly tropic work than a reflection of any lost lore.
Christopher Collins
There's Welsh pre-Christian myths about a Tribal Chieftain with the name that "Arthur" derives from going on adventures, getting a magic sword, and travelling to get a magic cauldron from the gods so that he can live forever, so in that sense yes, it is derivative.
Him being a Romano-British General, the whole "Grail" as opposed to cauldron, and pretty much everything else is Christianized Romans/Anglo-Saxons taking a pre-existing myth and taking it in a completely different direction. "Grail Myth" and the Grail Cycle are thoroughly Christian.
Jayden Price
Parsifal is tangential to to the Arthurian legends, not some essential component. It's also based very heavily on Chrétien de Troyes' Perceval, le Conte du Graal, It's a great epic poem, but it's in no way a key book for someone who wants to know Arthur and Matter of Britain.
Jacob Collins
Some aspects and elements are likely pre-Christian, notably the grail, but also quite possibly some characters. The central Arthur-Guinevere-Mordred elements are more likely based on historical figures in Christianized Britain, though, and the themes and plotlines generally reflect the Christian thinking of medieval authors.
As said, many elements, particularly of the older Welsh legends, reflect a much less christian culture with many pagan elements intact. In the mabinogion especially a lot of cultural mores are less reflective of Christianity.
Michael Anderson
King Arthur as a myth came from Jesus son that had gone to England with Joseph of Arimathea.
Josiah Wright
Partially pagan. I don't know if scholars ever agreed on this, but is it just me, or does Morgana(Arthur's half-sister, I think in some versions she's also the mother of Mordred, in others it's Morgause) sounds weirdly similar to Morrigan? Especially the origins of Arthur and the fact that later Anglo-Saxon kings all claimed to be married into his family in one way or another(and so did Normans and later kings of England), this origin myth may be nothing but simply claiming godly ancestry by monarchs.
The Grail initially shows up in Percival of Chretien de Troyes and it's not called the holy grail(on top of it it's clearly not a cup, but rather some kind of plate), so while there's definitely a chance of it being tied to Christianity as it was written in times of 1st crusade when news of discovery of many relics came to the west - it may be just that its biblical nature didn't have to be mentioned for the intended target audience, I mean think about this in the context of 12th century. Now obviously the grail as part of the spoken cycle may have existed back in the times of yore, but we don't know.
Christian Sullivan
>There's Welsh pre-Christian myths about a Tribal Chieftain with the name that "Arthur" derives from going on adventures, getting a magic sword, and travelling to get a magic cauldron from the gods so that he can live forever
Source?
Angel Turner
Why, yes, how could you tell?
Andrew White
Sarmatians = R1b Poles
Elijah Cox
We only have them as written down by Christians, of course, but the content of some argue heavily for pre-Christian origins and oral traditions: The Annals of Cambria (Annales Cambriae), Mabinogion: White Book of Rhydderch (Llyfr Gwyn Rhydderch) & Red Book of Hergest (Llyfr Coch Hergest), the Welsh Triads, etc. From 'Preiddeu Annwn' ('Spoils of Annwn') ".....who beyond the Glass Castle saw not the prowess of Arthur, six thousand men arrayed along the ramparts with their watchnen we could scarce confer. Three times the fill of Prydwen we sent with Arthur none but seven returned from the Castle of Treasure. None but seven returned from Caer Golur. "
d.lib.rochester.edu
Robert Hall
Very few scholars support that he's the inspiration for King Arthur and there's literally no proof that he was Sarmatian
Justin Campbell
Hard to tell since Celts never left written works, or they were lost in the process of romanization.
There's the archeological and linguistic approach but it doesn't offer much beyond anything.
The only source we have is Julius Caesar and then Christian saints.
Maybe some of these oral myths were kept between celtic populations, christianized eventually. Druids also might've played a role?