So I just finished reading this and wow, I just have to say the gods are dicks

Athena gave Diomedes the power to rape Ares

Anyone read the Caroline Alexander translation? I heard it was praised for staying close to Homer and keeping the same line numbers.

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why would u read this lol

He still ran away like a bitch from Golden Hector.

I always think that that day was the most wonderful, wacky and cooler day of his life and no one would belive it if he told about it.

Because I read the Odyssey. And I watched Troy. I wanted to see how much they changed the story.
Achilles was a crybaby, Agamemnon was a coward, and nobody important died, except Hector.... and I suppose Patroclus and Sarpedon. And, man alive, were the gods real pieces of shit.

>fagels rock

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>implying the life of Hector, who was so afraid of death he ran from his fate, was more valuable than anyone else's.

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>FAGles

Lattimore trans best trans

i dont believe that you read this, you seem too retarded to have read it

He was LITERALLY the protector of Troy for 10 years. If he had died at any point before then, the city would have already fallen.

The gods would've intervened, and Troy was not just Hector, they had many.

Appart from the part in the Odyssey where Athena protects Odysseus out of some semblance of love/respect—that is, the entire book.

>So I just finished reading this and wow, I just have to say the gods are dicks.

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I have not even tried to read this as I feel it would be a chore.
Did anyone enjoy reading this? and Im not asking someone who had to read it for an academic reason.

are you a woman?

Yes, it's boring in many ways, but interesting enough to power through.

no, I just have a demanding job, a young son and about 20 books still on my list. I don't have a lot of time to read.

There's no better use of your scarce reading time than reading the classics, and The Iliad just might be the classic of classics. Might feel demanding but it's one of the most rewarding reads you can make.

Read it to your son. That's what my dad did.

great advice here.

The battle scenes are nice, but the best word to describe this book is tedious. The ongoing repetition of phrases, in-depth genealogy of character descriptions, and the "lol so close..." plot hooks lead to a boring, drawn-out read. If you read to children, which would be best, practice how to pronounce the character names/locales and perhaps skim over the battle summaries.

What are you talking about? Troy WAS Hector, because without him, the city is destroyed. Have you not read the books?

the only difference between an "academic" and an autodidact is a paycheck

i have never met someone who says this kind of shit and doesnt spend their down time decompressing in front of office episodes on netflix.

Manslaughtering Lord Hector is one of the most glorious humans who has ever walked Gaia.

Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard. Especially with Zeus predicting and accepting his death. Even though Zeus was such a prick, it was still a tender moment. Even the gods make tragic choices. And Sarpedon died a heroic death.
The end of book 6, with Hector bidding a tearful farewell to his wife and the stark contrast with Paris brimming with hubris was pure kino as well.

Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard. Especially with Zeus predicting and accepting his death. Even though Zeus was such a prick, it was still a tender moment. Even the gods make tragic choices. And Sarpedon died a heroic death.
The end of book 6, with Hector bidding a tearful farewell to his wife and the stark contrast with Paris brimming with hubris was pure kino as well.

What did he mean by this?

Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard. Especially with Zeus predicting and accepting his death. Even though Zeus was such a prick, it was still a tender moment. Even the gods make tragic choices. And Sarpedon died a heroic death.
Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard. Especially with Zeus predicting and accepting his death. Even though Zeus was such a prick, it was still a tender moment. Even the gods make tragic choices. And Sarpedon died a heroic death.
The end of book 6, with Hector bidding a tearful farewell to his wife and the stark contrast with Paris brimming with hubris was pure kino as well.

>Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard. Especially with Zeus predicting and accepting his death. Even though Zeus was such a prick, it was still a tender moment. Even the gods make tragic choices. And Sarpedon died a heroic death.
>The end of book 6, with Hector bidding a tearful farewell to his wife and the stark contrast with Paris brimming with hubris was pure kino as well.
Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard. Especially with Zeus predicting and accepting his death. Even though Zeus was such a prick, it was still a tender moment. Even the gods make tragic choices. And Sarpedon died a heroic death.
The end of book 6, with Hector bidding a tearful farewell to his wife and the stark contrast with Paris brimming with hubris was pure kino as well.

Sarpedon's death was particularly hard-hitting, especially when considering that Zeus predicted and even accepted his demise. Though Zeus could be an asshole, yet was it a most heartfelt moment. The Gods, though divine, are not unsusceptible to making regretful decisions, and Sarpedon's was the death of a warrior. Hector's bitter farewell to his wife in the finale of the sixth book, when considered alongside the unflinching pride of Paris, was for me another remarkable moment.

Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard

well... imagine the shit people have done to their pets as an inconsequential joke, just to see their pets reaction.

That's basically how the gods are represented towards humans

>all these shit readings of The Iliad
Even the gods couldn't oppose Necessity during the Trojan War, they're the ones who suffer most the death of their champions. You need to reread it before spewing your "le gods are ebil" epic fedora tipper tirades.

>You need to reread it before spewing your "le gods are ebil" epic fedora tipper tirades.
In his defense, most people apply an Abrahamic framework to ALL divine entities, despite that pretty clearly not being the case. The notion that any of the gods could be "evil" is silly not because they aren't, but because "evil" doesn't exist within the context of European religions. Ares is Ares, Zeus is Zeus, they are what they are, and sometimes that's malicious, mean, and downright wicked. Other times, it's greatly beneficial, loving, and caring. The entire point of the religion is to be their friend, with the implication that friends don't hurt each other (as much).

Removing the Olympians from the Semitic master-slave dichotomy, which the Greeks (and indeed all pre-Christian Europeans) did not hold, brings about a view where of course the gods are dicks sometimes, just like your boss is a dick sometimes.

Those gods are some real jerks!

I recommend listening to Elizabeth Vandiver's lectures while you read this. Available through The Great Courses from the Teaching Company. Not cheap bought new. But you can often get them on ebay.

The lectures will add a dimension to the book.

Just pirate them

For me, fight for Patroclus' corpse was really inspiring.

>Ajax beat Hector
>Diomedes beat Ajax
>therefore Hector would beat Diomedes
Hector was just lucky that Paris injured him from afar before Diomedes could react.

>reading translations made by women

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Caroline one seems alright.

Is that so? I was half-serious, because most translations I read that were made by women seemed either really loaded or just plain bad ( like the Hero of our Time translation that came up a few days ago ). I'm not saying that there are no exceptions, only that it's a rule of thumb that generally holds true.

Works that are markedly masculine, like the Iliad, are especially susceptible to being pozzed.

>achilles didn’t die
confirmed havent read the aeneid

Explicitly laying out Achilles' death is completely missing the point. The Roman character does not hold the values presented in the Iliad. If He did, He would not have made His empire.

Isn't that the bit where he is in the town that used to be super hospitable, and was famous for it, but then got fucked up by Poseidon, and since then they hate travelers?

Hell, traveling and being a "foreigner" is a huge part of the Odyssey. In fact, the tale elevates the idea of coming home, not just physically, but also in-fact (as compared to Meneleus (If I remember correctly) who got killed by his wife and her new fuckboy).

Odysseus is either welcomed or shunned depending on where he goes, but we must remember that there is, and I hate that I can't remember exactly where, an example of a guest who "overstays" his welcome. In fact, it is considered rude of a guest to stay too long, or be kept too long. The latter is exemplified by how he is kept captive at the start, by a too generous host. Inviting someone in and robbing them of their agency, so that they now are dependent on you and your people is considered an insult to you both, and very rude of you to him, and him to you, by the Greeks. It's a major "sin" to speak, in Greek culture of the time. The "witty" criticism is far off the mark.

I know this is probably preaching to the choir but I fell in love with literature through the Iliad and shit like this irks me, and I felt I had to vent.

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The hell are you on, asshole? The gods interfered with both Diomedes' and Achilles' rampage because they were going to tear down the walls of Troy "against Zeus' will" and saved several heroes during the course that they personally championed.
They were literally opposing the necessity of the Trojan War for their own inflated egos, you dumbass speed reader.

It still doesn't make it right.

Diomedes was just lucky that bitch Athena was riding his cock so hard or else Hector would have slaughtered him where he stood.

As opposed to Hector having his ass saved by Apollo and being buffed by Zeus?

>why would u read this lol
>"this" meaning the Illiad
>the post you replied to was in answer to that very question
I'm sorry you lack the capacity for reading comprehension on a board specifically designated for the discussion of literature.

Even without the gods' "help", Hector still would have struck down Diomedes. It's stated over and over there was no one to oppose Hector except Achilles.

Ajax wrecked Hector. And Ajax got wrecked by Diomedes in the friendly duel during the games.

Greeks were too OP. Even Patroclus himself could've wasted Hector if it hadn't been for divine intervention.

They TRIED to interfere with Necessity but they barely delayed it. Don't @ me ever again.

Read it again

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Oh, right, except where it explicitly states the gods took the senses away from Hector and the Trojans after being pushed back from the ships to stay out in the fields against Polydamas' advise of going back to Troy behind the gates.

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Yeah. Poor pitiful Andromache.

>as compared to Meneleus (If I remember correctly) who got killed by his wife and her new fuckboy).
You clown, you have the wrong son of Atreus in mind. How dare you forget 1/7th of Aeschylus' extant works. You should be banned.

Based and aretepilled.

Who was in the wrong after the events at Aulis and after the end of the war? Agamemnon or Clytemnestra? I think both, but really the whole thing was unavoidable.

I wrote a paper about how justified Clytemnestra was in her actions and my mom and I still argue about it to this day.

What was Agamemnon supposed to do? Stand there forever, waiting until the army dies of hunger? He bore the weight of that sin because it had to be done, and especially since he was the one responsible for it.

Let me guess, your mom thinks she was justified? I'm sure she's a wonderful person, but women will always side with other women.

user, all that you have said seems spoken after my own mind. My mother isn't completely one hundred percent behind the murder, especially considering poor Cassandra gets it, but she thinks it's a lot more ambiguous than you and I do. She also thinks that Andromache had a worse lot than Cassandra, but that's really a different matter.

>two soldiers duel in a heated battle
>one of them dies and the other immediately starts stripping him of his armour while everybody around them continues to fight
was this common in ancient greece?

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>in this occasion they delayed Necessity
>in that other occasion they accelerated Necessity
yes, and?

And the madman does it twice

Achilles was based af. My girlfriend told me that he was a cry baby and that id hate him because all he does is sit in his tent. His scenes when he refused to fight were utterly based. After he agreed to give his armour to petroclus he turned into just a generic character. Was dissapointing. His dialogue about honor and war was the best part of the book.

Was anybody else surprised on first reading that the illiad doesnt include the death of achilles, the trojan horse and the sacking of troy?

no, already knew its contents beforehand

>duel between Ajax and Hector
>Ajax about to fuck Hector up
>they stop fighting for no reason
Why? Is there a reason other than Hector having to survive for future events?

Also,
>Diomedes fights the Gods
My dick was rock hard the entire time. It was so anime but exciting nonetheless.

Cause Zeus wants the Trojan war to end by Achilles, that's why Hector was spared

Is it explained later in the book why it had to be Achilles? Or is Zeus just autistic?

I can relate.

Necessity

It was fate, even the gods cannot go against that.

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I downloaded and checked a small part, it seems similar enough to the translations by men.

Three reasons.
One, it was proof of your valorous deed.
Two, you would need new armaments since there would be no nearby blacksmith to make you new armor and weapons.
Three, you keep what you kill.

Zeus was a fag who hated to be proved wrong.

Achilles dressing down and adamantly refusing the greatest captains of the Achaean in his tent all while drinking and eating was as hilarious as he was correct.

Why didn't Diomedes get any sweet epics or plays? He's extremely prominent in the early books of the Iliad.

He's too based. You can infer that he returned home after the war and continued being based for the rest of his long life.

ur wrong

i am sorry you are based not me

Ares is despised in Greek writing, that's why you have prayers for victory and tokens of gratitude to Athena, Zeus and Castor & Pollux instead. Unlike Mars, who was the Romans' best friend, Ares is just an embodiment of a negative concept.

I cry every time.