Reminder that the christian concept of matrimony was conceived as a necessary evil in order to keep christian men from continuing to stray further from the flock. The institute of marriage was solely and wholly designed as a way to contain sin; as a last resort to avoid sinking further into the quicksand of transgression, if you will. That is exactly what Paul, who was himself celibate, meant when he wrote that "if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion". Not to mention the fact that Jesus (and all holy men after him), despite being a mortal man and possessing "weak flesh" himself (dyophysitism), remaind single all his life, and on top of that called a number of his disciples to abandon their fishing business and essentially leave their wifes and families in order to come after him and become his full-time disciples. You cannot claim to try to live a christlike life while indulging in embellished sin. Cast off the devil's training wheels, put a stop to the proliferation of evil, and, for the sake of Christ, take the celibacy pill.
>b-but be fruitful and multiply
To be "fruitful" is to grow spiritually and to become a fisher of men (for the kingdom of heavens draws near) which brings us to the second element of "multiplying", which obviously is a foreshadowing of the Great Commission, a.k.a spreading the Good News to all nations of the earth.
Reminder that the christian concept of matrimony was conceived as a necessary evil in order to keep christian men from...
Other urls found in this thread:
isthatinthebible.wordpress.com
twitter.com
Yikes
It is clear that Paul desired for all men to remain unmarried, as he openly states. Very interesting honestly. I wonder if it might imply some Gnostic leanings.
>To be "fruitful" is to grow spiritually and to become a fisher of men
Yeah I'm sure that's what those old desert Jews meant while wandering the desert. Can't blame the Jews for not converting to your death cult.
OP is completely right however. Judaism is an ethnoreligion concerned with the regulating of Jewish life for the advancement of the Jewish people, and Christianity is an apocalyptic cult focused on ensuring proper behavior in light of imminent eschatological doom (the fact that it's roughly 1,700 years late is irrelevant). Of course they're going to disagree.
>Gnostic leanings
explain
One aspect of Gnosticism is that the material world is inherently evil and is basically prison for human souls. This belief led to many Gnostics being anti-natalists as well. A belief that sex is inherently sinful or should be avoided if possible and a belief that children should not be brought into existence both can be drawn out of Paul's quote and both qualify as Gnostic rather than mainline Christian beliefs.
>Cast off the devil's training wheels
Holy fuck lol
>the material world is inherently evil and is basically prison for human souls
I would argue this also pertains to mainstream christianity (which, incidentally, is basically Paulism) since it considers life on earth as some sort of aberration, an anomaly defined by sin, suffering, carnal desires and all that is evil in general, for which an evil entity, a demiurg or the devil is blamed; a disturbance that occured after man was cast from the Garden of Eden, which, essentially, is the platonic world of the Forms, an ideal situation that needed to be rectified by means of crucifixion and resurrection. Even now, despite the fact that the rift between man and God supposedly has been mended and heaven has been restored so to speak, christians think of life as a prelude, a test in order to gain access to the afterlife, a frame of mind which bears witness to the inferiority of the material world and the superiority of what comes after, namely the spirtual world.
That is a great way of putting it, user! I may be quoting you...
Is this spiritual world experienced or are we just eternally unconscious and our "souls" enter the spiritual world?
Based and Paulpilled
When Jesus talks of the kingdom of heaven, he means the mental state you may achieve by following his teachings. Heaven is no more a real place than hell, as it’s all based upon who you are, right now. Hence why Christ tells of any man can enter the kingdom of god, and why all sins will be forgiven. Anyone can turn from evil and live a good life.
It isn't mainstream Christianity. At least it isn't in the West. Most Christians think that God intended life on earth to be a certain way which to them is this Eden state and that if we just followed His rules or were "in relationship" or whatever, everything would be great. I would say the vast majority of Western Christians believe that the Garden of Eden was a literal physical place.
So what's the Gnostic conception of the afterlife? Eternal peace (unconsciousness)?
Not him but I would say it is escaping the physical world at long last and ascending to the unconceptualized and inconceivable union with God.
Alright, but what does that mean? What is it? Nobody knows?
"Be fruitful and multiply" means go fuck and be animals. I agree with your message but cannot agree with your interpretation of the old testament. Yahweh is an evil and ignorant god, who sees spirit as something to encase in materiality.
It's by definition beyond our human understanding so it can't exactly be summed up in a couple lines on an anime image board lmao
So write more than a few lines. Whenever you press someone on some sort of mysticism, it always boils down to dude we don't know lmao.
Nothing pisses me off more than seeing these "religious" larpers on here who were perma-virgin incels that are now glorifying the fact that they never had sex. When we all know that the only reason they are preaching this "celebecy pill" is to make themselves feel superior for being completely unattractive to the opposite sex.
Matrimony is literally one of the 7 Sacraments you Larper! It is completely endorsed and encouraged by the Catholic Church. It may not be for everyone, and some are called to serve God in the Monastery or Priesthood. But the reverse is also true. Most don't feel called to the Monastery and Priesthood, and it is equally as necessary for people to get married and have kids.
But deep down you know that the only reason you are following this ideology is out of an inferiority complex with "normies" and by playing these intellectual games you are trying to convince yourself that you are superior for your complete inability to attract a life long partner to have a family with.
I mean yeah. That is the entire point of mysticism. If it could be rationally explained, then by definition it isn't mystic. What can be called "mystic" is that which is beyond understanding.
>>b-but be fruitful and multiply
you're quoting God the Father, not a Yea Forums dweeb. show some respect, heretic.
Fair enough I guess.
Oh, I was under the impression that the Garden was a place of mythical proportions, hidden behind a veil as if it were.
hoes mad
Gnosticism isn't mysticism. Gnosticism claims that is possible to acquire arcane knowledge about the devine; in fact it is a prerequisite to attain salvation. Without the existence of gnosis it'd be Marcionism.
You're correct, but Gnosticism certainly has mystic elements and my spiel about the afterlife was mystic in nature.
Didn't Paul believe the the return of Christ would happen in his lifetime or something?
I think I have heard that argument before, but I can't remember the validity of it.
If he did that does also indicate more mystic/Gnostic leanings about Paul
>all the Manicheant nonsense
>not knowing early church's battle against such heresies
>implying
based. how do i completely uproot all sorts of sexual desire?
Family being good is peak Demiurgic delirium. The evil ascribed to one person against the world is suddenly good if there are two of them. Not even that their alleged intention somehow becomes good, but their explicit enmity to their fellow man, to their laws, to their world, to their God is suddenly celebrated. Having children is likewise an apotheosis of misanthropy. They hate being challenged, being seen, being judged, being known by an other so much that they would rather make an other, impotent, blind, lame, dim, to make him affirm them by default and by force. Abomination hidden in plain sight.
>If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Yes but gnosis isn't episteme and can't be simply communicated from one to another in language or writing. It exists behind a linguistic-conceptual horizon, like Kant's thing-in-itself, that requires divine or supernatural aide/experience to transverse.
Exactly
Marriage is a calling and just as holy as priesthood.
There is literally nothing wrong with being married.
This is incorrect. Almost all of the Hebrew Prophets and Kings of Israel and large numbers of Jesus' disciples were married(with upwards of one wives in the case of OT figures) without Jesus ever objecting to it. Moses married twice Solomon had a thousand wives David was married Noah was married Saint Peter was married and many others. This weird celibacy aspect is Paul's headcanon.
Where is that from?
>If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
In the french translation there's no mention of hate in this passage, what he means is : if you prefer your family to me you do not deserve to be my disciple.
In my opinion this is closer to the true text
You are reaching Catholic levels of delusion there, when they pick 10 words form the New Testament and ignore everything else when it comes to the pope.
It's true that to be close to God it's better to be a celebat but it's not possible for everyone.
>it's not possible for everyone
neither is salvation
bump
The reply? Me. The quote? Luke.
All those people sound like autists.
> d-don't get married
> islam literally states all men need to get married
> christian numbers drop, islam keeps growing
makes you think...
>The true Christian actively contributes to the extinction of humanity
Totally not nihilism
Quality of life is more important than quantity.
Based OP.
St. Alphonsus said the same thing.
>Council of Trent, pg. 225: "If anyone saith that the marriage state is to be preferred before the state of virginity, let him be anathema." [...] "writing to the Corinthians, [Paul] says: I would that all men were even as myself; that is, that all embrace the virtue of continence...A life of continence is to be desired by all.”
>Pope Pius XII, Sacra Virginitas, no. 32: “This doctrine of the excellence of virginity and of celibacy and of their superiority over the married state was, as we have already said, revealed by our Divine Redeemer and by the Apostle of the Gentiles; so too, it was solemnly defined as a dogma of divine faith by the holy council of Trent, and explained in the same way by all the holy Fathers and Doctors of the Church."
>Saint Thomas Aquinas, ST II-II.152.4: "Virginity is more excellent than marriage, which can be seen by both faith and reason. Faith sees virginity as imitating the example of Christ and the counsel of St. Paul. Reason sees virginity as rightly ordering goods, preferring a Divine good to human goods, the good of the soul to the good of the body, and the good of the contemaplative life to that of the active life."
>Saint Alphonsus Liguori: The married state I cannot recommend to you, because St. Paul does not counsel it to any one, except there be a necessity for it, arising out of habitual incontinence
>Saint Athanasius of Alexandria, A.D. 373 †:"Now if a man choose the way of the world, namely marriage, he is not indeed to blame; yet he will not receive such great gifts as the other. For he will receive, since he too brings forth fruit, namely thirty fold. But if a man embraces the holy and unearthly way, even though as compared with the former it be rugged and hard to accomplish, nonetheless it has the more wonderful gifts: for it grows the perfect fruit, namely a hundredfold."
>Saint Cyprian of Carthage, A.D. 258 †: "But chastity maintains the first rank in virgins, the second in those who are continent (celibate), the third in the case of wedlock." [...] "While laws are prescribed to matrons ... virginity and continency are beyond all law; there is nothing in the laws of matrimony which pertains to virginity; for by its loftiness it transcends them all."
You can make a case that Jesus, in the Gospel of Luke states that celibacy is required for salvation.
based.
Indeed, so called "retrocausality", actual Dialectic not only as Philosophy but as Ontological TRUTH proper, is integral to Christianity.
>If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
What I like about Paul is that he's so crazy that he inadvertently destroys christianity in Romans 1:18-23.
Just because Jesus didn't openly reject it doesn't imply that therefore he passively accepted it. At one point he makes a claim that has as a corollary that the Old Testament is morally incomplete and needs to be made more rigorous. This particular issue is inconclusive from the point of view of Jesus's sayings and he very well may have shared Paul's view. Or he may not have.
in the bible it says that god let them do all those things in old testament because of hardness of their hearts iirc
ofc its preferrable to stay single if it means that you can better focus on spiritual growth and respecting gods law, instead of getting even more invested into material pursuits with marriage, but most people will never pursue this level of spiritual focus and for the most its better to get married, after all god himself instituted marriage as a sacred union
>after all god himself instituted marriage as a sacred union
Just because God did this doesn't necessarily mean that it's preferable. Just like how the Old Testament isn't completely correct or complete (from Jesus's point of view) even though Jesus almost certainly held that it was a divine work.
>Just because God did this doesn't necessarily mean that it's preferable
its not, its preferrable to fully devote yourself to your faith, but for most people thats just not realistic
99% of people if not married would just live as bachelors and slack around
>Just like how the Old Testament isn't completely correct or complete
gods law is complete and perfect, people are not and before jesus came to save humanity it was in an even worse state than it is today so its not unexpected to see old testament figures be polygamists and such
after all even saint aurelius augustine condoned abortion, saint thomas more condoned euthanasia, people are ignorant/evil
Does anyone even go to Heaven? All I've learnt from Christianity is that you may as well live how you please and just accept God is going to make you burn forever post-death
If that would be true, God wouldn't have created Eve.
A lot of prots are convinced of their salvation, "once saved always saved" and all that. Catholics are less certain but they have purgatory and works as a safety net if they fuck up. Orthodox are almost crypto-universal salvation at times, or at least far less concerned with making claims on who is in and who is out, but this isn't true in all cases of course.
It all seems kinda hopeless from reading shit on here
I'm not even a Christian and it brings me distress, seems the path is very narrow
Depends on what branch of Christianise you refer too. F.e. Protestants and Roman Catholic have quite different views regarding salvation.
You say this matter brings you distress, in what way? Regardless if you go to a good or bad place, death is liberation from the material world. Seneca treats the fear of death quite extensively and I’ve found them enlightening to say the least. I exhort you to peruse his work and I’m sure it’ll ease your soul.
I don't worry much about going to hell so much, it's more my issue with understanding why The Good would send me there
>But deep down you know that the only reason you are following this ideology is out of an inferiority complex with "normies" and by playing these intellectual games you are trying to convince yourself that you are superior for your complete inability to attract a life long partner to have a family with.
But deep down you know that the only reason you have kids or marry is only out of the pride of your own earthly, empirical identity. You want to HAVE a wife, you want to HAVE a kid, etc. It's all about a temporary possession and somehow feeling good or accomplished because of it.
So think about that before spouting this "loooooooool you virgins don't put your member is someone's gooey vagina looool fucking losers"
Imagine hating life this. The only reason people like you don't kill yourself is because it would end your psycho-sexual loathing of being.
he doesnt, god gives you a choice - if you want to go to heaven do this, if you want to go to hell do this and you make that choice yourself
Why are you implying that I hate life when you're the one that constantly needs purposeless pleasure (I doubt you're only having procreational sex) in order to not neck yourself.
And I'm not even a Christian. I agree with most of Plato's metaphysical system and I'm slightly mystical, in the Jungian archetype way. I don't believe in ghosts, demons etc.
its superior to be celibate even though matrimony is of course valid and necessary saint paul the apostle says so himself
I don't get all the need for ritual though
well i dont really get it either, but it is transmitted from god to us from ancient days and we cant completely understand the way god works
Peter, a real apostle, was married. Paul, the phony apostle, is nonsensical.
Be careful with the holier than thou attitude, pride leads to other sins.
I don't even know where these people spawn from, those who go around claiming that they are not materialists, so that means they are spiritual. That leads to gnosticism, as it makes material plane a prison. But there has been throughout the history of people who have claimed to be holy and pure, but have made it into a show of piety, piety they do not actually have. But I guess, many priests, religious and monks have fallen for that, will now and will in the future.
That is perfectly in line with Christianity. You're the one who sounds crazy.
They aren't the standard of perfection. Christ alone is. He makes it clear he is superior to Abraham. He also explicitly stated the celibate life is better in the gospel of luke.
>explicitly stated the celibate life is better in the gospel of luke
Verses?
>The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; but those accounted worthy to obtain that age and the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. Indeed they cannot die anymore, for they are equal to angels and are children of God, being sons of the resurrection. (Luke 20:34b-36)
>A great number of the people followed him, and among them were women who were beating their breasts and wailing for him. But Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For the days are surely coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.’ (Luke 23:27-29)
w-why does paul have a sword in that picture?
That first passage refers to a lack of marriage in resurrected man, not its superiority in this life. And the second always seemed more a doomsday prediction than anything- you will wail would be an odd choice for something seen as a good.
Catholic tradition at least has generally held marriage to be an inherent good, just that a celibate life properly devoted to God is a higher thing.
Accounted, past tense, presupposed from earthly actions, which means those who neither married nor gave into marriage on Earth. The same passage in Mark (?) limits it to heaven but this clearly refers to Earth in the Lucan account.
Just have a chaste mind, simple.
Catholics are making incels, yikes
>The institute of marriage was solely and wholly designed as a way to contain sin; as a last resort to avoid sinking further into the quicksand of transgression, if you will.
it's designed as the best way to raise children, actually
what yall niggas talkign bout demiurge & shiet heretics
This is wrong, but consider the morbid fixation with relations alone, which is vital to the relation itself, nay, IS the relation itself, far more depraved than sexuality, is that not reason enough to rebuke them?
Paul is often depicted with a sword because he was martyred through decapitation by sword.
None of that is involuntary. For it to be would make it of null effect.
1 Thessalonians 4:15
>For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.
Paul seems to include himself among those who will remain alive until the Second Coming.
Not really, it was a common feature of all sorts of early Christianity.
Saint Paul is still alive.
It's even in the gospels. Mark 30:13
>Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened
>EVERY MAN IS SUPPOSED TO BE A CASTE MEMBER OF THE PRIESTHOOD
Yikes! You incels will come up with the most ridiculous excuses for still being a virgin LMAO.
>EVERY MAN IS SUPPOSED TO BE A CASTE MEMBER OF THE PRIESTHOOD
Correct.
t. Pelagius
Sex is by far the LEAST reprehensible part, the relation-sexuality spectrum is not moral-immoral, but terminally demonic-boring. See:
Stop watching anime.
>Whosoever is born of God, commmitteth not sin: for his seed abideth in him, and he can not sin, because he is born of God.
Sex is clearly the worst part.
>universal salvation
based and origenes pilled
Fuck off back to r*ddit, faggot
Was Paul a virgin ? He never got married and was a Pharisee, he shouldn't fornicate, but still I can't believe a man could spend his whole life without knowing women.
Christ didn't.
why aren't you a monk/priest/nun then? you should choose a vocation instead of rationalizing your lack of one as making you closer to God. he's trying to work through you in one direction or another, and you're refusing both paths ahead.
you can lead an ascetic life without having to become a monk or a priest, user
you're called to be fishers of men if you leave behind earthly things. unless you think your calling from God is to help people on Yea Forums with catechesis, this seems completely weird to me. also being celibate != asceticism, especially if you have an internet connection and are clearly seeing lustful images and hateful words constantly
no person who is actually going to be a monk/nun is posting on this site
yes, my point precisely
It's called opus dei.
He was married i think
You seem to view the world in black and white: either you indulge in carnal desires without second thought or you renounce your earthly life and spend the remainder of your days as a hermit in the desert living off wild honey and locusts. Paul merely advises men to lead a celibate life because it is more christ-like. Jesus himself was just a ordinary carpenter afer all.
>Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am
There are Saints, but at least in Catholic tradition most saints are convinced that almost everyone goes to Hell, I read a compilation of their views on the topic and it seemed that 1/1,000,000 or so might avoid Hell.
careless as you are, Christ himself said man cannot serve two masters. the twilight of the holy life is in contemplation, in the solitude of the desert
>Not to mention the fact that Jesus (and all holy men after him), despite being a mortal man and possessing "weak flesh" himself (dyophysitism)
Did Jesus fap?
I posted So I'm not a monk or a priest because I'm not a Christian. If there were some kind of Platonic-Pythagorean community I would surely enjoy working and living with them. I envy the monks on Mount Athos because they can still live by their theocracy in the 21st century, without giving a shit about the degenerates you find at work, city streets, classrooms etc.
Also I wouldn't exactly enjoy waking up at 4am to worship Jesus (or any other deity) or listen to christian chants for countless hours, especially since I don't believe that the metaphysical is composed of omniscience-omnipresence-omnipotence.
I very much realize the value of Christian idealism and aesthetics. The greatest genius to touch this earth was quintessentially a Christian genius - Bach. For me Bach is more Christian than Jesus or the Christian God themselves.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man
Dude, this describes christianity to a t. I really wonder why they didn't remove this passage.
imagine worshiping a dead jew and having to filter all your thoughts through hook nosed desert tribe fairy tales and do all your mental gymnastics to make sure your thinking is "consistent" with an ethnoreligion which treats you like cattle
No. It's not a necessity and leads to habitual sin. Even lusting is a sin according to Jesus.
Christ was not a corruptible man but the image and standard for perfection. Even still, he rejected that he was good, and that only God was good. This further confirms scripture, not contradicts it. This is where the longstanding theological concept of creature vs creator comes in.
I think History is worthless BUT I remember reading something about "Gnostic" marriage wherein the couple was supposed to consider...Dialectic between the sexes? Identity? Anti-expedient living? Aeonic sexuality? Anyone?
I just read the Epistle to the Galatians and I really, really liked it!
The epistles in general are the best parts of the bible. As based as it gets.