>Islam is not so self effacing as Christianity, it doesn't give up when dismissed or mocked or even persecuted, it carries on, it's one of the things that's most admirable about it, is that it stands up for itself
Link to video twitter.com
W-what did he mean by this?
How can a religion stand up for itself? If anything its followers stand up for it. How can you take someone who can't even differentiate the two seriously?
>W-what did he mean by this?
Visit any major west European city and it will be self evident to you.
If you still don't get it, look at the local Imam and the local priest.
He is talking about the institution of Islam, which is a group of people.
That is obvious to pretty much any person.
>institutions are made up by individuals
ok retard
Name an Institution that would meaningfully exist without humans.
Only because instutions need individuals doesn't mean that institutions are individuals. These two are completely sepereate
But if institutions can't exist without individuals, individuals are an essential component of every institution, which was my point.
Is nominalism the philosophical equivalent of chasing the bug?
Attention please, ok.
Westerners do not know how to think about Islam because they see it through the prism of their own lives. Take in consideration the Sahara for example. That place is so deadly in some parts that you better believe in Allah to make it through. Have a drought? No science will help. You better believe that something positive will happen. The belief won't make it rain but it helps.
Don't know about the current state, because we have navigational devices, but during the 90's people from the west would drive through the Sahara and get lost, ending up drinking their coolant to get some extra hours before their eventually die or someone discovers them.
Institutions can exist without individuals but then they're useless. Nonetheless that's not even what my initial post was about. I would even go so far to argue that Islam is not an institution just as Christianity isn't an institution, but the church is. To say Islam can defend itself is completely nonsensical. And if you argue like you do, as in all individuals represent the institution, you'll be faced with an ever bigger problem here. Islam has so many different schools of thought and so many institutions within itself that you can't just throw them all in a pot. Also there are a lot of Christians who can defend Christianity. The loudest is not always the strongest
But none of that is the point.
It's pretty obvious that Hitchens meant Muslims, the people who make up Islam, defend Islam.
>Also there are a lot of Christians who can defend Christianity.
See .
What's beyond evident, if you follow my advice, is that Christian defense of Christianity is significantly weaker than Muslim defense of Islam.
>Hitchens meant Muslims
Thats what I'm saying. But someone who won't differentiate between two either can't or doesn't want to be precise in order to make his point. Like I said there many different schools of thought within Islam an each one would defend it differently and in some case in contradiction to each other..
I live in europe and I know quite a few Muslims, there last resort in defending their believe is always that they won't talk to non-believers and that critizing their religion is blasphemy. Do you really think that's a good defense? I'm not saying that there aren't any intellectual imams who are actually willing to discuss Islam but you have the same people on the Christian side to. Again screaming the loudest doesn't make your defense the best
>But someone who won't differentiate between two either can't or doesn't want to be precise in order to make his point.
Nobody is 100% precise all the time, as long as the meaning is absolutely clear, as is the case here (unless anyone believes that Mosques take up arms against the non-believers), it isn't a problem.
> Do you really think that's a good defense?
Going purely from the results it is thousands of times better than anything Christians are trying to do, who are, at least nominally, in control (to some significant part) of the Government in e.g. Germany.
>Islam is a danger to the West
The west is already defeated, Islam is just entering the places where there is nothing to stop it, that just is it's nature.
>one of the most admirable things about it
So terrorism is admirable, it's okay when the taliban shoots little girls for fun, the incredibly toxic Islamic culture persecuting another individual
Fuck off muslims, they are the most intolerant members of society
This. Islam is the solution, not the problem.
>importing large amounts of shitskins and adopting their religion is the solution, because muh "traditional(ish)" values.
All inclusive religions and ideologies just muddle the water and are nothing more than proxies for conquest, power and control. Name one thing Islam does different from Christianity, other than being more viral and radical at this point in time.
He means what we all know: the survival of the west is entirely dependent on the rehabilitation of genocide as a political practice.
Bravo
Bravo boomer
>Since the Taliban regime toppled in 2001 with the US intervention, the Bacha Bazi phenomenon revived in certain parts of Afghanistan. However the practice has not only been limited to strong men or warlords, but it has also penetrated the Afghan Police Forces. The US Special Inspector General for Afghanistan in a recent report sharply criticized the Afghan Government for remaining complicit for not preventing the recruitment and sexual exploitation of children by the Afghan National Army.
blogs.lse.ac.uk
t. Didn't watch the video
Let me tell you what you missed: he says Christianity is dead and Islam is the last hope for humanity
For one, it doesn't send its best minds to live as celibate monks, but demands that they reproduce and encourages them to take on many wives.
Islam has a system of law and has a firm protocol on dress and interaction with the opposite sex.
Hitchens is an IRL Anglican, of course from his perspective Christianity is dead, since HIS version of Christianity is, essentially, dead. There basically aren't any serious, devoted Anglicans outside of Africa any more; all the Episcopalians in the US and elsewhere are jokes. That's the perspective Hitchens is coming from when he declares Christianity dead. But of course I think he's wrong.
Just remove the polygamy for elite males and it's good. White Sharia can't come soon enough. Fuck women.
>best minds
Those nerds would have been lifelong incels anyway.
Christianity used to have those too at one point.
Its a completely dumb idea to step on the same Abrahamic rake twice. Christianity brought the Jewish problem to Europe, why would anyone think a "white only" version of Islam is somehow plausible?
>Those nerds would have been lifelong incels anyway.
Not in Islam. Scholars always get the pick of the litter when it comes to wives.
Shariaa is not anti woman. The guardianship rule helps protect them. And beating your wife for disobedience is a last resort and it cannot be on the face or leave a bruise. It is typically a karate chop to the neck or a switch to the bottom, not pimp slapping like boomers think
>a karate chop to the neck
are you kidding me bruh
Name the human that would exist without cells.
One doesn't oppose the other unless it is cancerous.
Christians have become spiritually diseased. Egalitarianism, Judaism, democracy, secularism - all manner of filth is pouring in.
>Institutions can exist without individuals but then they're useless.
a useless institution can't institute anything, and thus ceases to be an institution.
>Christianity used to have those too at one point
Wrong Paul abolished religious law, all Christian law is ad hoc. And their texts do not have protocols for talking to the opposite sex, Jesus (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) is even portrayed as a transgressor of proticol
It's Sunnah
He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: I would say something which would make the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) laugh, so he said: Messenger of Allah, I wish you had seen (the treatment meted out to) the daughter of Khadija when you asked me some money, and I got up and slapped her on her neck. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed and said: They are around me as you see, asking for extra money. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) then got up went to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) and slapped her on the neck, and 'Umar stood up before Hafsa and slapped her saying: You ask Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) which he does not possess.
[SAHIH MUSLIM BOOK 009-HADITH 3506]
>Islam is not anti women, we just treat them like children and physically discipline them and make them wear disgusting ninja costumes and treat their testimony as half of a mans and our prophet called them stupid and morally deficient and Muslim men are allowed 7 wives when Muslim women are only allowed 1 husband and sex slavery is totally permissible in Islam especially if you capture sex slaves after plundering their land
Even if you're the most rabid misogynyst you have to be utterly evil to wish Islam on a woman
How many Islamic women have you met? They're mostly very happy.
>The guardianship rule helps protect them.
From who, other thirsty muslims? Women are the ones at fault by default from getting raped, which is the polar opposite of current year west.
No madhab requires a face veil, it is considered something for the pious but not mandatory. Men are required to give women a substantial payment for marriage, such as a house, a large lump sum, or installments over a period of years. Women are well compensated for their role. If a man has multiple wives each must have a separate house and equal dowry
They are conditioned to be complacent, because that is all they know. They clearly need a little taste of feminism. :}
From being seduced,
yeah 'cause that turned out so well for the west
modern women are equally conditioned, but to be unhappy consumers who need to constantly buy things in order to get dopamine kicks.
What an impressively stupid post. You try to detract from a statement by suggesting it focuses on something nonsensical by yourself focusing on something completely retarded. Have a (you).
Coming right up
reminded me of this
>even in Islam marriage is nothing more than a simple transaction
Love is dead!
Seduced by being raped?
Catholicism used to impose very similar dress codes on women. And the "Pence" rule was common for every man too. Every country had sumptuary laws. The problem isnt christianity itself, but christianity bowing to progressive forces. I dont see Islam as a great threat to the west. In fact, it's the opposite. Muslims in western countries will become more progressive and twist their faith. Muslims like Ilhan Omar for example are pro LGBTQ and will try to secularize/neuter Islam.
Only if by "love" you mean western romantic idiocy
Seduced mainly, consensually
Omar Ilhan isn't a Muslim except ethnically lol she doesn't go to mosque or pray she wears the hijab for lib brownie points, not modesty
That's my point. Muslims in the west will become irreligious and atheistic like most Christians today. Christianity used to have that fire Peter Hitchens described
>romantic love isn’t real, but seduction is
What did (s)he mean by this?
>Muslims in the west will become irreligious and atheistic like most Christians today.
Most Muslims don't get this. I live in SE Michigan, and despite some very localized clusters, most Muslims are VERY Westernized. The women are skanks and the men act like whit*oids. Really sad. Just goes to show you how powerful capital is. Globalism will make every woman a thot and every man a simp by 2150, globally.
That's actually not true since the authoritative scholars of American Islam like Hamza Yusuf, Joe Bradford, Daniel Haqiqatjou and Ismail Roger (all converts coincidentally) are very conservative. Since the highest degree of Islam comes from the University of Medina, this will probably remain the case
Is that why they throw off their burkas in large scale protests in the Middle East?>we give them some money therefore we are justified in subjugating them
I wonder why similar clothing isn't considered pious for men HMMMM
Nobody gives a shit about scholars. Look at the average Muslims in the west. Thotifa al-Thottin couldn't give a shit about what some pious incels say.
Ancient Christians were literally being tortured and crucified for their beliefs. It's not the religion itself that's weak, but its modern so-called believers.
Catholicism was on the rise, strong, and conservative in America only 60 years ago. Fulton Sheen had his own TV show, and converted tens of thousands. Catholics were lined up for confession every Sunday. Things can change faster than you think.
Yeah, this disembodied Christianity would totally take over the world, if it wasnt for those pesky humans.
Submit, woman.
My (based) priest makes a similar point often: that the affluent have a much more difficult time knowing God. The affluent, day after day, accumulate evidence that it is they themselves that are masters of their own lives. Even many of those who ostensibly adhere to Catholic orthodoxy are in fact engaged in a kind of Pelagianism—a mentality of justification by box-checking that pays lip service to God, but in fact is rooted in admiration of one’s own intellect and self-discipline.
The poor can not sustain such illusions for very long. Their lives are in God’s hands in a way that is viscerally real — a way that the fortunate cannot easily understand.
For the wealthy, Grace often comes in moments of reversal. When their investments tank and suddenly everything is gone, when they realize they can do nothing, despite their means, to help their drug-addict son, when the illusion is broken. It is in these moments that we hear God through our own self-righteousness, when we can truly understand and begin to be led by the kind of self-emptying love that Christ showed for us in his passion.
Women are often pressured into face coverings, but they aren't legally required by any madhab except the Taliban, which follows Hanafi that allows Urf, meaning local cultural practice as Shariaa
Most Muslims in America don't go to mosque or practice about half in the UK
No lol. Mosques require women to cover everything but face, hands and feet and there is a partition between the sexes. The very worship environment makes it very difficult
Also the Arabic word for heresy, bid'ah, literally means "innovation". The Catholic Church embraces "development of doctrine"
I know this is christfag 101, but it reads like poorfag cope. Its no secret that Christianity has been specifically ttying to promote itself to the poor, the feeble, the crippled, the wretched, etc, but such virtue signaling has lost its luster, ad ot doesn’t put any bread on the table.
Meanwhile Qatar has one of the highest average incomes in the world and still flogs people for fornication
Doesn’t that coincide with the rising influx of irish and italians? I can’t imahine anyone, but meds, or polacks actually practicing something as self-flagellating as Catholicism.
Thats probably because sandpeople have a high propencity for violence and not some because of some religious principles.
>It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.
This is pure cope.
>falling for average income b8
yeah and average income in the US is like 60k but like 1/2 of the population earns less than 30k and 3/4 of the population earns less than 40k. average income is a meaningless joke bourg stat
Or It could be Qur'an 24:2
I don't know what your point is. If you don't think Islam is anti-woman you're just not well-versed in Islamic scripture and history.
>so self effacing as Christianity
By the grace of God alone, the elect will be preserved to the uttermost.
Well isn’t that quite a coincidence then!?
islam is anti-thot, yes that means anti-modern woman but not anti-woman
>blocks your demon
>fakeup
>heh nothin personnel pose
>token hijab
yep, a tradTHOT
Well * median* income is 5000 dollars a month, just below Belgium
I too choose my religion by how based and redpilled it is.
Yes and the word heresy comes from the Greek meaning "choice" or "school of thought". They all have flowery origins. You're kidding yourself if you think Islam has that kind of inertia. I'll admit I'm pretty ignorant on Islam in general, but progressivism is entropy. I dont doubt there will always be traditionalists, or strong Muslim countries. In America or Europe it will be different.
youtu.be
youtu.be
Here's your future bro
What makes Catholicism more self flagellating than Islam?
It's not just thots though. Your prophet said that men were allowed 7 wives. How many husbands are women allowed? He said that women were stupid and morally deficient. He said their testimony is worth half that of a man. He allowed his male followers to own female sex slaves. How many male sex slaves were his female followers allowed to own? He supported wife-beating. Are women allowed to beat their husbands? "I have not seen any women suffer as much as the believing women," were Alisha's words when she brought Muhammad a woman who had been beaten till her skin turned green and who muhhamad subsequently blamed for her husband's beating her. Male martyrs get 72 virgins. How many male virgins do female martyrs get?
The fact that you say anti thot is itself indicative of islams inherent sexism. Muhhamad was a known womaniser who had over 7 wives and many sex slaves, the Hadiths brag about muhhamads sexual prowess claiming he has the sexual virility of ten men. Muslim men were allowed 7 wives and sex slaves from their plundering endeavours. Muslim men were promised 72 virgins if they died as martyrs. Islam doesn't give two fucks about being a thot if you're a man. Men can have multitudes of wives and sex slaves, and martyrs even more. Islam is only anti-promiscuity for women.
you're right
>women were stupid and morally deficient
Kinda true, tbqh, but sandpeople are no better, regardless of gender.
It isn't just an etymology. If a Muslim refers to heresy in English he generally says innovation
Outlier mosques that don't reproduce and are unrecognized by the rest aren't the future lol. Wanna know why? Because just the prayers and ablutions are demanding enough that Muslims who want something else just give up and stop practicing, they don't go to an identitarian mosque that practicing Muslims consider WORSE than not practicing. It's like pagan temples, there will be some but people don't care enough to keep them going or spread them
This is irrelevant to my point, which was that Islam uses anti-thottery to oppress women and is actually fine with promiscuity as long as you're a man, but I'll address it anyway.
It's quite obvious that women are not any more immoral than men. In fact I would say the opposite is true. All one has to do is look at the crime statistics and you will see that men are far more immoral, impulsive, and aggressive than women. I'm speaking generally of course. Furthermore the average IQ of women and men is identical, so to say that women are stupid is also wrong.
CIA funds Golden Crescent in Afghanistan.
>is actually fine with promiscuity as long as you're a man,
Muhammad literally stoned men for adultery....
NATO has got to be the most immoral and malicious military force in history
Go read my post. Muslim men are permitted to be promiscuous with their 7 wives and unlimited sex slaves and 72 virgins for the martyrs.
Women just act in more covert and subversive ways.
Up to four wives.
Yep, concubines galore in heaven. Heaven(s) in Islam are other universes, not some ethereal soup. Islam believes man was designed to accommodate such relationships since he can impregnate multiple women whereas women can only be pregnant by one man at a time. It is believe God rewards men with concubines because men find it extremely satisfying and it makes them happy. Alhamdulilh!
heaven isn't real though, there is only this world
What makes you say that only this cosmos exists? Rather presumptuous
death is just eternal unconsciousness bruh
What makes you think this isn’t the best possible world?
So nothing you said disproves my point. The anti-promiscuity bullshit is just a proxy Islam uses to oppress women. If they actually cared about promiscuity they would care about it for men also.
>woman can be pregnant by one man at a time
So fucking what? Pregnancy doesn't last forever and you don't have to impregnate when you have sex. After the woman gives birth she could go fuck other men as well. The reason it's forbidden has nothing to do with pregnancy and everything to do with subjugating women.
>concubines are given out because it pleases men and makes them happy
Do you realise how disgustingly immoral you are? What about the fucking concubines! Do you think they're happy?
This is why I said that anyone who wishes Islam on a woman is pure evil.
The Qur'an says
>And among His Signs in this: thou seest the earth barren and desolate; but when We send down rain to it, it is stirred to life and yields increase. Truly, He Who gives life to the earth can surely give life to (those) who are dead. For He has power over all things.
The Quran truly is a beautiful book :3
Best? What do you mean? It is beautiful and I love it but it is temporary. It will die
The concubines of heaven are happy because it is their nature to derive their happiness from pleasing men. :) they serve and converse and love. They do not argue or gossip
>give life to those whose time (life) has passed
a contradiction bruv
Yeah I'd be real happy to suck the cock of Arab men all day. Fuck off with your bullshit. If Hitler had genocided Muslims instead of Jews nobody would have given a shit. Fucking savages.
>Yeah I'd be real happy to suck the cock of Arab men all day.
if you were a woman you would love sucking off powerful Arab Chaddams
Islam makes women very happy. This is a convert
>In a YouTube clip published last year, the softly spoken Dr Kate Godfrey-Faussett takes to the stage, apologises for delaying lunch, stutters slightly – saying she has an entrenched fear of public speaking – before launching into an impassioned speech about the government’s “totalitarian endeavour to indoctrinate our children in sexual ideologies”.
>Godfrey-Faussett, who describes herself as a chartered psychologist and Muslim academic, is the latest voice entering the tinderbox row over LGBT lessons in Birmingham schools.
Then why are you an incel
Nobody is happy to be a sex slave. Maybe a few masochists but that's it. And I doubt that they would want to be sex slaves for eternity. Especially to some dirty Arab halfwit.
Is it? I thought necromancy is haram.
you're an idiot
most women desire to be chad's cumdump
I'm not a chad
>hurr hurr, I was a dumb slut and now I’m a dumb slut with a different label and dress code, how enlightened am I!?
Literally every convert in history, ever.
Shut up, infidel dog
>thirsting over Emma Watson.
Mudslims everyone. I bet ur a ginger incelete.
is she thicc though?
It's a meme but popular on Muslim Twitter
just add nice thicc ass but not saggy and thicc nice legs (maybe large milkers too) and that's the ideal wife for every man in history
You might as well say that the future belongs to Catholicism because of the rise of young Trad Catholics and the return of the Latin Mass in the last decade. Both them and those scholars are blips on the radar, at least at the moment.
i'm legitimately considering converting
I would if I was guaranteed a good looking wife with a nice body.
What are you? Are you prepared to get your genitals mutilated.
thats medieval philosophy 4u
>Thotifa al-Thottin
kek
A threat of actual death for people who turn apostate. And homo. And draw SBUH.
Both sides have apologists; Atheist and Christian ones have more to say before they reach the "shutup youre stupid" card.
> Trump bad
>=Islam good
False dichotomy. Both are horrible. Islam is objectively worse because it's got a longer trackrecord and killcount, and Trump is localized, somewhat neutered by political tape.
Islam is a danger to jews, christians, atheists, and buddhist statues.
>westerners attacking Islam for "killcount"
Not really. What Muslim state every destroyed Chistian statues? Calvinists have. Not Muslims
Anglican nominally, no real belief.
Pray, tithe, attend regular.
An Atheist [insert religion] makes sense only if person is cynical, trying to find cover when religionists have him cornered, "some of my best friends are churchmen".
How can i trust someone who's only honest when he's right / in a strong position?
he's probably American
>there are fashwave islam memes now
god damn it, i thought this stupid trend was over
Speaking as ex-indonesian with insect blood, hell no. It's a danger wherever it goes, esp the mad dog pro IRL jihadists. Look at the current anti-chinese sentiment, the 1997 purges in indonesia: islam is very easy political card to play, rally big hostile crowds. It works in any situation: if we win, Allah is with us; if we fail, we are martyrs, and all true muslims should not forget our sacrifice. There is no end until they are either wiped out / defanged.
Someone should start a campaign to castrate muslims.
Think again
I see you are careful to say Muslim State.
This is very cheap; no Muslim State would burn international relationship points like that. They would instead harbor, turn a blind eye, sometimes fund the stateless radicals. Pakistan esp, for the harboring.
Anyway, i said jews, christians, as people, then Buddhist statues. Slow down when you read, pls.
ok that one’s pretty cool
Eh, not a westerner bruv.
Azn. Two gens before me lived in a muslim hotpot. It wasnt fun.
Yeah see, if you made your argument based on West (or any broad idea)VS Islam, your argument might work. But you made it about trump, who is a looney in temporary power.
Unless he's starting an honesttobaal pogrom, he cant hold a candle to Islam, an actual religion with centuries backing it up.
Eh, if they obeyed secular law, no need for that.
But roving rape gangs and groomers? 100%
I mean ever,not just in modern times
Muslims are obligated to protect Jews and Christians and their religious practice if they pay jizyah.
Add:
The Muslim State prefers to help islam by not interfering so long as the terrorism is not on homesoil, then when the victim nation starts shouting WTF, the MS will weepily crawl to BBC radio with a weaksop bullshit statement, "we do not condone nor support the alleged actions. We will take every necessary action ..."
Sure Christians and Jews are allowed to exist if they pay tax; you would already have killed everyone who dared resist the rule of Islam.
Refer terms:
Mushrik (idolater, polytheist, Arabic: ): >"This term is used to refer to people who are perceived to be worshipers of idols and other gods, AS WELL AS believing in Allah....it means, “attributing a partner to God”. Since a mushrik is considered a polytheist, they are not a non-believer in the general sense."
CHRISTIAN TRINITY GOES HERE
– Munafiq (hypocrite, Arabic: ):
>Munafiqs are people who are said to “look like” Muslims, but in reality keep their former non-Islamic faith
JEWS GO HERE
– Ahli Bid’ah or Ahli Dalalah (heretic, Arabic: , ):
>The term bid’ah refers to any beliefs, practices, or dogmas ... that deviate from Islamic teachings. Dalalah is similar to the term “heresy” in Christianity and also carries a negative connotation.
Or
>Dahri and Sindiq
ALL OTHERS, HERE
All (You) need is a maniac for a ruler, like a muslim trump, or Kaddafi, and they can make up new rules.
As is, jihadist propaganda already promotes violence against "Zionists" and "crusaders". Our lives are worth less than our taxes to these people.
>Islam is a religion of peace
You are like 18 years late to that debate.
Uhh, so buddhists and atheists are freegame? Scourge and purge?
It means he is selective about his proof.
>Dismissed mocked and persecuted
Pls wiki AD 100christianity: non violent sect vs Roman empire and jewish orthodoxy.
>Carries on
Christianity has two millenia. Islam has 1.5, with resort to violence from its text. Christianity has a harder time justifying bloodshed, unless old testament is invoked.
>It stands up for itself
A working definition of humanism. Which is to say, hitchen thinks islam looks more like humanism and for this should be prefered over christianity.
Jews aren't Munafiqun, a Munafiq is a fake Muslim and a subversive, Jews don't pretend to be Muslims
Christians and Jews are both people if the book, hence protected
Buddhists are people of the book by Hanafi fiqh. Atheists are free game, yes, unless they are Buddhists
Christianity today bears zero resemblance to Christianity from 100 years ago let alone 2,000
>Jews dont pretend to be muslim
Yeah, when it's a free country. Jews have been known for making false conversions to save their necks. Not saying it's right or not, but it has happened, and you have to be willfully blind to deny this.
>Hence protected
In theory, yes. In practice, this verse is treated like a suggestion. like 1033 Fez massacre, 1066 in Granada, 1834 in Safed. There are no special privileges for people of the book: obey and submit to muslim rule, or die.
>Buddhists are of the Book
>According to Hanafi fiqh
All you are saying is, anyone who doesnt agree with Hanafi can kill buddhists. And also, buddhist statues.
>Christianity today bears no resemblence to AD100 Christianity
So you are saying Christianity today is not real christianity. So BY YOUR DEFINITION, modern christians are not people of the Book, ergo, carte Allah to scourge and purge regardless of jizyah.
>Christians today < bc100 christians = muslims today
You better not be implying this.