Dutch literature

Harry Mulisch his De ontdekking van de hemel was amazing when I read it 5 or 6 years ago.

Oostakkerse gedichten is lovely poetry by Hugo Claus

Had fun with Gerard Reve his twink stories

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dutch lit is so boring imo, especially for native speakers like me

What have you read, and why didn't you like it?

I haven't read any Mulisch or Reve yet, De Aanslag, De Ontdekking van de Hemel and De Avonden are all on my to read list. Just finished reading Rituelen and Het Volgende Verhaal, from Nooteboom. Both were pretty good, but the latter was especially impressive.

Bump

Most of the Dutch writers I've read are mediocre. Each country is only allotted so much artistic talent, and they used most of theirs on painting.

this man gets it

Which ones have you read? Have you read Dutch books that weren't mediocre?

Mulisch and Nescio are the only two I've read who are better than mediocre.

>allotted
Newspeak has to become a thing. Pretentious cunts like you would simply dissappear

Claus, verhulst,hertmans
if you want meme tier read brusselmans

For Dutch standards, they're not mediocre. The Netherlands has never produced a Moby-Dick or a War and Peace or a true classic that'll outlast generations. If you look at it from a little more distance, Dutch authors dead or alive are at best mediocre. The problem with Dutch literature is, its too specifically Dutch. You as the lay reader from abroad must first understand some typically Dutch things (and get to know how to pronounce names), and so forth, it's not worth the effort because those particularities are insignificant: things about a certain leftist magazine, very influential in the 1970s (today on the verge of bankruptcy), in-jokes about journalists, people once famous now forgotten, literary catfights... A literary culture that only looks inward cannot have any relevance to world literature. To put it another way: you get a fairly good idea of the Russian mindset if you read Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Pushkin, etc. You must have gotten a taste of Dutch culture before you can "appreciate" Dutch literature.

Just like plenty of Dutch authors, for example WF Hermans' work is outdated and it has aged poorly at that. Jan Wolkers' novel Turks Fruit (Turkish Delight) caused a scandal when it came out; today it's little more than a Facebook post by some edgy teen who has loads of sex. Max Havelaar by Multuatuli's is a damning j'accuse of colonial exploitation in the Dutch East Indies. For a postcolonial studies course it might be good, otherwise, what's the point?

WF Hermans' essays on Wittgenstein are cringey fanboyism (this is not an exaggeration, trust me), and his journalism is 70s and 80s stuff, completely irrelevant today, but its all part of the standard edition of his collected works. Wanna know? There was this scandal about a man who claimed to have done herioc stuff in WW2 but it was all a lie because he was an attention seeking loser, yet Harry Mulisch believed this BS and defended him. In the end Hermans was right to call the guy a pathological liar, and that happened in..., nobody remembers and nobody cares anymore. Several of Hermans' experimental novels from the 1950s are quite nice, but again, nothing spectacular.

Which of their works do you recommend?

Which authors were you disappointed with?

sorrow of belgium, war and turpentine, The Misfortunates
and for brusselmans it's all the same meme tier writing doesn't really matter

Have you read Elsschot as well? I was very impressed by Cheese.

When looking purely at Dutch (and Flemish?) literature, you say that there is a lot of okay-ish work that's not that impressive. Which books do you think, even though they can't compare with world literature, that stand out?

I've read Nooit meer slapen by Willem Hermans and Nescio of course. Both were very pleasant.

I read Nescio as well. Dichtertje I didn't find as good as the other two, but De Uitvreter and Titaantjes were both really good, strong stories.
I haven't read Nooit Meer Slapen, but I did read De Donkere Kamer van Damocles. I found it pretty enjoyable and not bad at all, but also not overly impressive. It could be personal taste for that. Would you still recommend me reading Nooit Meer Slapen?

Yes. The main character is quite interesting. Pleasant read.

Any recommended children's books for someone learning Dutch?

Depending on your level of Dutch, I would suggest either Nijntje books (for beginners), or, if you already know a bit of Dutch, Jip en Janneke, or Puk van de Petteflet.

Snert's Seert and Feert, formerly Sneed's

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bump

Does anyone have comments on the Dutch literature chart (posted above?)

>Terug naar Oegstgeest
would recommend
early Wolkers is great

>Each country is only allotted so much artistic talent, and they used most of theirs on painting.
Ironically, the letters of Vincent van Gogh are very highly regarded as a work of literature.

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Erasmus was Dutch I believe.

I had to read Lof der Zotheid (Ode to folly in English or something I think) in highschool (Belgium) and to this day it's still one of my top favorite books. only high school mandatory reading that was actually meaningful to me and that I remember now 7 years later.

Nonsense. There's lots of great Dutch writers who's works are of similar quality to that of many of lit's favourite writers. I bet you got this opinion from reading like 3 books and you just assumed there was no great Dutch lit.

Would you count Turks Fruit as early/great?

That's pretty impressive! I'll keep that in mind as something I want to read at some point.

Do you have any favourites that you can recommend?

Everything from the netherlands is trash
onnederlands goed

bump

Swampnigger here. De avonden, de donkere kamer van Damocles, Multatuli are all great picks. De avonden is definitely my favorite. Short, but has good (and obvious) themes.
I'd add "De rode Droom". It's a great book about the futility of socialist nostalgia in the post-cold war period.

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Even the Dutch posters tend to agree their writers are mediocre.

That's because he was one of those rare people with artistic talent. Had he or many of the other great Dutch painters wanted to, they could have become great novelists.

Dutch can’t write worth shit. They’re only good at painting

Which Dutch works have you read?

Claus and Elsschot are probably the only authors worth reading desu

Which of their works did you like the most, and why?

Bump

W.F. Hermans 'The Darkroom of Damocles' and 'Beyond Sleep', Harry Mulisch Discovery of Heaven, Reve's The Evenings, if translated then I would add Bonita Avenue by Peter Buwalda and Van der Heijders earlier work (Toothless Time) but his later work has lost his touch and is increasingly commercial.

I would also add Belcampo's short stories. You could say his style is magical realist but also quite childish, it's light reading: don't expect anything 'deep' like Borges or Marquez. Simon Carmiggelt wrote a lot, but only very little of it is translated; what is translated isn't his best but most likely to sell well.

Have you read them in Dutch, or translated?

Agreed. Dutch literature post (((Spinoza))) is fucking terrible.

Has anyone read Nooteboom? I read Rituals, which was pretty good, and The Following Story, which I was quite impressed by.

Yeah, because Dutch people learn to hate literature in high school just like anyone else, and when they get into literature, they usually read in English. There aren't many people with Yea Forums taste reading significant amounts of Dutch literature. And even if you are one of them, it's still hard to find those Yea Forums tier writers, because they always aren't quite as popular as some more mediocre writers.

I completely agree with the learn to dislike literature part. When I got into literature, all the lists with best books etc basically never feature any Dutch books, and it took me years before I started reading Dutch literature, apart from Hersenschimmen/Out of Mind by Bernlef, which I read when I was in secondary school (and it's a good fucking book).
How much experience do you have with Dutch (language) literature/writers?

>Do you have any favourites that you can recommend?
Multatuli: Max havelaar, Woutertje Pieterse
Slauerhoff: Het verboden rijk(the forbidden kingdom), Het leven op aarde
Couperus: van oude mensen de dingen die voorbij gaan(old people and the things that pass), Iskander
Hermans Donkere kamer van Damocles(darkroom of Damocles), nooit meer slapen(beyond sleep)
Vondel: Lucifer, Gysbrecht van Aemstel. Vondels Sonnets are also by many considered to be on the same level of those by Shakespeare
Hildebrand: Camera obscura
Perron: Het land van herkomst(the country of origin)

Not all of these books are translated and you might not find all of them to be more than mediocre, as we probably have different tastes, but these are some of the Yea Forums tier writers and some of their best books, that I know. Dutch lit is vast and old and should not be underestimated, just because it's not as famed as Russian or English or French lit.

>Non-native Dutch speakers
No such thing

Well, here's a list of recommendations.I've read works by a couple dozen writers and on average a few books per writer. The thing is, the more you know about something, the more you realize you don't know all that much about it and that holds true as well for Dutch lit. For every popular writer that everyone knows about there are tons of more obscure writers worth reading. Some would say I'm well read in Dutch lit, but I feel there is just so much more I have to read.

The most interesting thing about Dutch literature, is that there are a bunch of 19th and early 20th century writers who disliked the country, preferred to live abroad, but where attached enough to the language, that they kept writing in Dutch. There's something really aesthatic about a writer on the other side of the continent, writing books, just so some people in Holland can read it.

Thanks for all the recommendations!
I'm Dutch myself, so I can read every book you mentioned. Also, Eline Vere is seen as a good book by Couperus, did you not mention it on purpose?

When it comes to Couperus, you can clearly see that he becomes more confident and more experienced as a writer as his books go on. His prose is a lot more memorable and a lot more impactful and you can see that he developes a few interesting writing tricks as his career goes along. As such, when I see a book like Eline Veere, written over 30 years before the masterpiece that is Iskander, I could only assume that it couldn't hold up to the rest of his books. I haven't read the book; maybe his later writings don't have something special that Eline Veere does have, but I couldn't imagine it being better than a 7/10.

Of course, the reason I haven't read it yet is because it's pretty long and there are lots more Couperus books I want to read, and as a result it's not too high on the priority list. A lot of people really like it though. Maybe the length really allows you to get attached to the characters or something.

Either way, there are lots of Couperus books that you should consider reading before Eline Veere(probably.) I remember reading the first chapter of De Komedianten, a few years ago and felt it had a punch that no other Couperus book I've read has had so far. His books just get so much more interesting during the last stretch of his career, when he relearns his love for his home country. Also, I should reread Iskander some time in the future, and you should just read it period.

Thanks, that's a really detailed and insightful explanation. I haven't read any of his works yet (I only started Dutch literature about 3 months ago, and have only read Hersenschimmen, Elsschot - Cheese (even though it's Belgian), Nescio's three stories, The Darkroom of Damocles, and Rituals and The Following Story, from Nooteboom. Out of those, The Following Story and Cheese are my favourite. I have a lot of Dutch books in my queue for now, but I just took a break and started The Master and Margarita. I'm excited to read more Dutch books and learn more about their history.

Being Dutch, I can tell you it's not worth the effort. I read all the assigned "classics" in high school and I can tell none of it ever made an impression on me as say, a Heart of Darkness. I've made a bunch of posts in this thread including this one and the people who say Dutch literature is average are most likely Dutch. You have several kinds of readers everywhere, but there's this real and existing gap between the people who just swoon over Dutch literature and think its the most underrated, poorly received and poorly understood god given worldly masterpieces in the history of literature since Gilgamesh, and you have people like me: people who have a little more taste for reality, who just call a spade a spade and recognize Dutch literature for what it is: it is shit, it will never amount to anything, because a city plan of Amsterdam is not a world map. If you take Amsterdam to be the most important place in the world (just because all publishers are located there and all writers live there, etc.), then you're premises are flawed, not to say, worthless from the start. What comes out of it cannot be good or interesting or worthwhile. Simple as that. Harsh.

And what do they write about in Amsterdam? The endless student-esque circlejerk of a small incrowd; "interesting things", people who travel to Amsterdam as an 19 year old from some bumpkin village somewhere "out there", experiences new stuff, goes back to the village to confront his/her parents with their narrowmindedness, they cannot be convinced, so the hero goes back and etc. etc. Of couse, the Amsterdam experience is tantamount to literature (didn't you know?) so you must live there. With a few exceptuions notably Ilja Leonard Pfeiffer who lives in Genoa (and cannot shut up about the moral obligation to take in refugees, hates tourists, yet promotes cruise ships. And also (((Arnon Grunberg))), in NYC. None of the things the Dutch crème de la crème of literature write about have any, and I repeat, any bearing on common life, common pursuits, people who actually have jobs, people with flaws like the stuff you read about in Dostoevsky or Honoré de Balzac; none of it. It's either autobiographical smut ("My father saw me masturbating and this caused freudian blah blah), yes, it's that superficial, or its a variation on the Amsterdam experience. Anything else probably exists, but that's... what? experimental.

The only Dutch author who's had success abroad is Cees Nooteboom. With, believe it or not, travel diaries retooled into essayistic novels. And when Harry Mulisch kicked the bucket in 2010, people were upset he didn't receive the Nobel prize for literature... posthumously.

>I read all the assigned "classics" in high school
Name a single person who got into literature because of high school? That you didn't like Dutch literature in high school does not mean all Dutch lit is bad, it just means you used to have novice taste. Yet you accuse others of having inferior taste. You point at Dostoevsky as a paragon of great literature, but on lit he's considered an entree into Yea Forums-core stuff: beginner stuff. I've read Dostoevsky and can say that his works are great, but they don't hold up to the greater works by Slauerhoff or Couperus, who's works reach me in completely different ways to that of eachother or of Dostoevsky.

You say you've read all the highschool classics(and I agree many of them are mediocre), but have you read all of these?and have you read them recently enough to trust your own opinion on them?

I'm not sure what to say about the rest of your post. It seems to be a bunch of incoherent rambling. I'm not sure if the person who wrote this could be trusted to tell you what is good and what is bad literature. Moreover you make lots of claims and accusations, but don't provide proof or examples, nor do you convey what you're trying to say with all of this.

All I'm trying to tell everybody here is this: how hard is it to believe, that a country with a quarter the inhabitants of France, could create even a fraction of the masterpieces of literature that that country does?

As an immigrant that kind of looks at it from an outside scope (i know dutch so i might as well read some), the only ones i enjoyed was

"de verwondering" and "het verdriet van belgie", "de metsiers" by claus
"extaze" bij couperus
"mirandor den vermakelijken avanturier" by heinsius
"elias of het gevecht met de nachtegalen" by gilliams
"het gevecht met de engel" by teirlinck
"rituelen" by nooteboom

its not really worth it, i guess? how do i explain it, if i would have the choice between all of dutch literature or be able to look at the elevation of the cross by rubens in the cathedral of our lady in antwerp for say, 20 seconds, i would with no hesitation preferr the second

>I've read Dostoevsky and can say that his works are great, but they don't hold up to the greater works by Slauerhoff or Couperus, who's works reach me in completely different ways to that of eachother or of Dostoevsky
Probably cause you're an irredeemable pleb. The very idea of comparing these third-rate scribblers to the literary genius that is Dostoevsky is preposterous and too absurd for anything if you ask me.

>I disagree with your taste, therefore you're stupid
Okay retard good night. Don't fume too long; you'll get wrinkles.

>and you have people like me: people who have a little more taste for reality, who just call a spade a spade and recognize Dutch literature for what it is: it is shit, it will never amount to anything, because a city plan of Amsterdam is not a world map. If you take Amsterdam to be the most important place in the world (just because all publishers are located there and all writers live there, etc.), then you're premises are flawed, not to say, worthless from the start. What comes out of it cannot be good or interesting or worthwhile. Simple as that. Harsh.
But where can you get a quality fedora if not in Amsterdam?

You're the one who claimed that Dostoevsky is a mere entry level author who apparently doesn't hold up to your local provincial quill-drivers, retard

I said that he's considered that on lit. A bit of an overstatement, of course, but a lot of people here make fun of the prevalence of Dostoevsky. I know a lot of people in real life who got into serious literature through Dostoevsky, so I definitely see where those people are coming from. I also said I like dostoevsky's works and I said that in MY opinion I think Couperus and Slauerhoff have made better books. I'm not discrediting him in the slightest.

>local provincial quill-drivers
Slauerhoff and Couperus were world travelers who both disliked their home country for most of their lives and who took inspiration from a large selection of international works and foreign culture in general. If anyone is a local provincial quill-driver it would be Dostoevsky.

And if you like him better than Couperus and Slauerhof then that is fine. I'm just trying to tell people there are great works of Dutch lit, that deserve an international audience, because other Dutch people seem unwilling to spread that message.

Vondel and Shakespeare in one sentence, and the latter is not held in infinitely higher regard than the former? Fuck off.

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>I think Shakespeare is better than Vondel
Yes, that's called an opinion. Good for you that you have one.

>Name a single person who got into literature because of high school? That you didn't like Dutch literature in high school does not mean all Dutch lit is bad, it just means you used to have novice taste. Yet you accuse others of having inferior taste.

That person would be me, there's your black swan. I was assigned to read Kafka for German (Die Verwandlung, Das Schloss), Die Blechtrommel - not my taste but well written nonetheless and I read Die Zauberberg because I wanted to. Great stuff. Timeless classics, and that was only 2 years after I was forced to read the inane blabbering that is called Dutch literature. Teachers make all the difference and I can't help it you went to some ghetto school where lunchbreak means smoking messican meth and getting sloppy BJs on the parking lot.

>You point at Dostoevsky as a paragon of great literature, but on lit he's considered an entree into Yea Forums-core stuff: beginner stuff. I've read Dostoevsky and can say that his works are great, but they don't hold up to the greater works by Slauerhoff or Couperus, who's works reach me in completely different ways to that of eachother or of Dostoevsky.

Jesus H. Crime you are one hell of a retard. If Couperus and Slauerhoff are so great, majestic even, tell me this: why doesn't anyone outside the Netherlands give a flaky shit about 'em? You tell me. If they are indeed literary geniuses, dead for quite a while (~96 and ~83 years respectively), a translater or savvy publisher must've seen that glare of genius, shining across the horizon. At some point in time during all those decades, someone must've seen it if their genius is clear for all to see. Yet, nobody did.

Here's a piece of advice, free of charge. Since the world is surely missing out on something blindingly awesome, something that deserves everyones undivided attention and respect and admiration... what's stopping you from proclaiming their indisputable genius all over the world?

>If Couperus and Slauerhoff are so great, majestic even, tell me this: why doesn't anyone outside the Netherlands give a flaky shit about 'em?
1 not all their works are translated
2 Dutch people don't generally try to put their art on a world stage, preferring to take from, rather than give to other cultures
3 Popularity does not equal quality. The popularity of 50 shades of grey and twilight should tell you that
4 books are long and not every literature nerd has read all of them.
5 Couperus is recognized internationally, just on a small scale. You can find writers from any country who are not well know internationally, but their books are still translated and are praised by critics.
What makes you think that being an exceptional writer equals being world famous? Or at least famous enough for you to know about them? And do you think that YOU have heard of all great writers, and there exist NO great writers that you haven't heard of?

>what's stopping you from proclaiming their indisputable genius all over the world?
That's literally what I'm doing right now. But as you might understand, considering the amount of cult classic that exist in the world, doing that won't make their books as famous as crime and punishment; that's not how it works.

not him but this guy
you are trying too hard for no reason, dutch translated into english gets pretty cringe imo its just the way it is, dutch people are well known enough for their art (painters) and that part about not giving to other cultures is also a really retarded comment, nobody cares about the last 20 years or so where television imports some shitty american sitcom, go trough the whole history.. and dont get mad when you just say 2 writers from your small country are better thn dostojevsky, be it wrong or true its still a retarded thing to say in these contexts

they are good but dutch is just a bad language to translate out from, its a bit of a dry language and get kinda funny ish reading it in english, almost child like, you could also argue the books are not that good in the sense that other books are so universal that they touch us still in a complete translated way

there is just no reason to advertise these couple of books when you have someone like van gogh that i would consider much more of importance to the netherlands

Yeah you're probably right. I just want to recommend some good books.

Based immigrant. Where are you from? Do you live in Belgium?

turkish immigrant in genk that has been wanting to kill himself for over 15 years now

Belgium does that to you, I suppose.

pretty much, even tough flanders is more based thn the netherlands its more suicidal here

De Aanslag
De ontdekking van de Hemel
De Metsiers
De avonden
...

Mulish is unironically the best modern Dutch writer

Het Verdriet van België is missing imo. It's like the Flemish Infinite Jest

the biggest deal-breaker for me is the devastating lack of nature and open space

well genk is in limburg and limburg in that regards is still ok with lots of nature and space, houses are cheaper etc but wages are lower and higher tier jobs are away, and you are more distant from civilized people, but atleast its not a cement filled shithole i guess, pic related is where i usually read for an hour or so after work to relax, only 2 minutes away

would have probably already put a shotgun to my face if i have to live in antwerpen or brussels tho

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Are the dutch so cheap they forgo indentations to save on paper?

We are a nation of painters, not writers or composers.

the evenings is great. it has the coziness of a murikami novel but without the overused tropes.

De Avonden is translated.

“Coziness” he says. The entire book was a depressing post-war novel written by an equally depressed homosexual. I like the book but there’s nothing cozy about it. Maybe it’s something that gets lost in translation but in dutch it’s gratingly cynical.

Bump

you have to be 18 to post here

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Does the story of the kid who stopped flooding by plugging the hole in the dam count? I read a version of that story in Spanish in some kids thing when I was little. That's about it. Oh, and Kabouter Wesley speech bubbles, somehow my English mind can pick up what's being said some of the time.

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I'm in dire need of dutch/flemish genre fiction,
horror is also good. comsic horror is better.
I need it but can't find any decent works

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I love Nooteboom, blows writers like Mulisch out of the water. Would especially recommend his travel writing, like the detour to Santiago

You're a moron, there's some great Dutch stuff. Even though you're right about the typical Amsterdam young novelist stuff

You, Dutch people, redbull me on Couperus, I downloaded Ecstasy because someone likened him to Huysmans. Will I be disappointed?

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What would you say are great Dutch works?

I haven't read any Couperus myself, but has some good insights you might be interested in

>Willl I be disappointed
Maybe a little. I'm personally not a big fan of Ecstasy, but it is a quick introduction to his style.

books like old people and the things that pass and the books of small souls give a much better example of how he handles psychology.

But it's important to note that Couperus started writing a lot more experimentally during the last stretch of his career. He started writing historical and mythological novels, as he "couldn't write about the people of his time". You know, due to the whole world war situation...

I haven't read anywhere near all his books, but I remember Iskander, which I think is untranslated, to be one of the best books I've ever read. And I really loved the first chapter of The comedians: a story of ancient Rome, which I didn't continue at the time, because I was reading it from a pdf.

His works can be slow and gloomy though and especially his early works can be a bit boring. I want to read more Couperus, but for a lot of his books you just have to be in the right mood. Still, he's a great example of 19th century realism. If you're into 19th century realism, you should like his books. If not(and I won't shame you if you're not) you might still love some of his historical novels.

Name one Dutch novel on par with Don Quichote.

>Name one Dutch novel on par with arguably the best novel ever written
Nice comparison

I mean, everyone has their personal taste. I don't know many books in general that stand up to don quichote. Your best bet may be Max havelaar, het verboden rijk, het leven op aarde and Iskander.

But if we're going to put Don Quichote as the standard for how good a book must be for it to be worthwhile reading, then reading simply isn't a worthwhile hobby in the first place.

Bump

Also, go read it it you haven't
It's the Dutch catcher in the oats but less autistic

heinsius is the only one that comes close but not as good

Het Bureau

Have you read the whole thing? What did you think of it?

Why is that?

Bump

Some tips I haven't seen mentioned in the thread yet, strangely - not all Dutch literature is about Amsterdam, autobiographical self discovery or some left wing themes

Tommy Wieringa - De Heilige Rita
Miquel Bulnes (Belgian, pseudonym) - Attaque!; Het Bloed in onze aderen
Kader Abdolah - Het huis van de moskee; De reis van de lege flessen; Salam Europa!
another masterpiece by Couperus - De stille kracht
Thea Beckman - Thule trilogie (a form of young adult novels avant la lettre about a dystopian/utopian future on a now temperate Greenland after a nuclear apocalypse)
Stefan Hertmans - De bekeerlinge
David van Reybrouck - Congo: een geschiedenis (if Huizinga is in the chart, so should this excellent piece of narrative history)
Willem Wilmink - Poetry and plays

Not really one of my favourites but available in English and several other languages - Herman Koch - Het Diner
This is also the case for Jan Siebelink - Knielen op een bed violen, translated to German and English

Dutchfag here. Feel free to ask me about any of these books if your curious about my countrys literature.

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DUTCH LITERATURE SUCKS DICK

ITS 99% SEXUAL DEGENERACY AND JEWISH WHINING

MUH HOLOCAUST - OH LET ME SUCK YOUR DICK REAL QUICK AND LET ME IMPREGNATED BY YOUR DAD - MUH HOLOCAUST

FUCK JEWS FUCK NIGGERS FUCK TRANNIES AND FUCK JANNIES!!!

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Can you tell a bit about what you think of Max Havelaar, Turks Fruit and De Kleine Blonde Dood?

>Maart*n van Rossum

Jesus christ, you a cuck user?
I bet you vote for the pvda jews you fucking faggot

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Nice populist trash asshole

It sucks dick

>max havelaar
Muh racism. Dutch man bad
>turks fruit
Shitty Smut. Very gross

I was hoping for some insightful commentary, but I shouldn't have expected anything from someone who reads Pim Fortuyn

>Max Havelaar
Had alot of influence on politics of the time and the meta writing near the end is amazing. The back and forward between the netherlands and the indies makes it abit hard to follow from a narrative pov. Like this user said it's pretty good for post colonial studies

>Turks fruit
When i read this anons post i thought of Turks Fruit imediatly, even though there are diffrences ofc. The shock value of when it was published is now largely gone but it's still a pretty good story about the relationship between two characters

>De Kleine Blonde Dood
Buch is a bit of a difficult case cause how much is know aout how he lied about...well everything i guess. Still a good story about a parent losing their child, just loses value when you know Buch promoted it as autobiographic

dont worry not me

don't worry not gonna vote (by that i mean blank)

thanks faggot

love how both a /pol/tard and a piece sjwtrash is triggerd by my collection

>inb4 spelling errors

>Max Havelaar
>hertaald en bewerkt door Gijsbert van Es
>hertaald
>en bewerkt

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"hertaald" (translated) is when you translate an older version of a language to a new/modern one.
And whats wrong with "en bewerkt" (edited)

Ja het is een schande hè. Als je niet eens 19de eeuws Nederlands kunt lezen, waarom lees je sowieso dan literatuur.

No, Max Havelaar actually defends imperialism and the civilizing mission of the Dutch. It is rather odd that it is continuously perceived as anti-imperialistic book. Instead, Dekker proposes that the Dutch system of imperial governance has to be improved, notably the fact that it now allows local ''Indonesian'' rulers' corruption and innate competence ruin a potentially benign system. In that sense, Max Havelaar could be regarded as a precursor of the ethic reveil or ''Ethische Politiek'' of subsequent years, be it from a more technocratic yet equally paternalistic angle. His ultimate aim in the book is - as it is in the latest chapters - to gain the ear of the governor in Batavia and the king for his modernization schemes.

This. user BTFO

>"hertaald" (translated) is when you translate an older version of a language to a new/modern one.
The original text is perfectly understandable and worth preserving if only for Multatuli's personal style of spelling which he used consistently.
>And whats wrong with "en bewerkt" (edited)
Arguably you could remove parts of the text which have lost their (cultural) meaning entirely to make it more accessible. Apparently the editor chucked a bunch of stuff a lot more freely in this case. I don't see why you would do this at all, personally. Why not add a short explanation in a note? And if the reader still doesn't understand something they could just look it up.

The problem with that version is that he absolutely butchered it, translated sentences into other sentences that mean something significantly different, and actually left out a lot of sentences (about a fifth of them), and it has received a lot of criticism from basically everyone. The guy had never translates anything before, and also said that he did the first chapter in one evening.

He did at the beginning of the book

No he doesnt you fucking idiot.

>Good, Good, all good! But... THE JAVANESE IS BEING ABUSED!
>Because: refutation of the SCOPE of my work is impossible!
>The louder my book is rejected , the more i'll love it, for the greater the chance is I will be heard. And thats what I want!
>But you, who I bother in our "work"or in our "peace", you ministers and governor general, don't count on the inexperience of my pencil. It would be able to practice, and with a little trouble develop to an instrument that eventually will make the truth known to the people! Then I would ask those people for a seat in parliament , if only to protest against de degrees of righteousness those so-called Indies experts hand out to one another. To protest against endless punitary expeditions and herioc actions, targeting the same poor creatures who through abuse we're forced to revolt. To protest against disgracefull and cowardly brochures, stains on the honor of the Nation, in which a plea is made on the public charity for the VICTIMS of 'chronic piracy'.
>It is true, those insurgents we're starvingskeletons, and those pirates are resilient men!
>And if men would deny me that seat in parliamant, if no one would believe me?
>Then I would translate my book in the few languages I know, and in the many languages I can learn, to exclaim to Europe what I failed to tell the Netherlands.
>And in all capitals songs would be songs with chorus like these: 'There is state of thieves at the sea, between East Friesland and the Schelde!'

Doesn't sound like blaming the locals (entirely; for the record he puts respoibility with the Javanse nobels but the Dutch goverment is just as exploitive).

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>who I bother in our "work"or in our "peace
who i bother in your "work" or in our "peace"

>in your "peace"
I swear i pressed "y"

>He did at the beginning of the book
He did what?

give an explanation

Yes, but where does he argue for self rule of the local population? Does he really assert that Dutch colonial rule should be abolished altogether?

Arguably, Dekker's rhetoric should not always be taken at face value. Indeed, there is ambiguity regarding to what extent the book lambasts the contemporary Dutch exploitation of the Indies and imperialism in general.

From a recent article
>''This explains the contradictory interpretations of Multatuli’s political position as he is labelled both a conservative and a colonial iconoclast.
>For Multatuli the political direction of the
colonial regime was not the real issue. He never claims that his goal is to end Dutch colonial
rule.
>Nor does he aim for a reform of the colonial government and although it is clear he
protests against the abuse of the Javanese people, he does not formulate a fully-fledged
‘philosophy of more rights for the natives’, as Zook stated.
>Multatuli merely demands that the
existing law be implemented. This may seem a very modest proposal but he was well aware that if this were to happen, it would mean ‘a death sentence for most of our politicians’.49 >The real problem is that the law was a dead letter and the poetic fire of a man like Havelaar was needed to bring it back to life.

Sure, you can find a bunch of Marxist or post-colonial articles who would argue the contrary, but just because Max Havelaar's nachleben/reception is quite different, i.e. that it has been appropriated by Indonesian nationalists or anti-colonialists, does not mean that the book in itself was against the system of colonial governance.

Also see: journalofdutchliterature.org/index.php/jdl/article/viewFile/8/8
I would be happy to recommend you more literature

based off of my original post feel free man.

I don't mean an editor's note. I mean adding a footnote or a reference to an endnote with a brief explanation of things modern readers are likely not to know about instead of removing those from the book altogether.

Any other places to discuss dutch lit-related stuff?

11th grade

I haven't found any other place, that's why I made this thread. If anyone knows another place, or a Discord etc, please share!

A lot of Dutch Yea Forums-core literature nerds don't bother reading a lot of Dutch lit. If you want to talk about Dutch lit you're gonna have to go off your computer and find a book club that suits you.

there used to be a Yea Forums discord that discussed some Dutch lit but they turned out to be pretty much faggots

What does that even mean

Terug Naar Oegstgeest is good until the point where he, as a little boy, fucks his best friend in the woods. I’d like to add The Procedure by Mulisch to the list. It starts as a pretentious book about Jewish creation, but eventually turns into an amalgam of folk tales and other stories of creation. Great book.

Or immigrants. Or both.

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I thought he wrote most of them in french, though.

De Leeuw van Vlaanderen for most famous piece of historical fiction/anti-french propaganda.

Bernlef is enjoyable with some nice insights, it's been a while since I read Hersenschimmen, but Publiek Geheim is a little fresher in my memory.
I also like Deelder, but that's probably just because whenever I read his work he reads it to me in my head. Schöne Welt is a nice collection.
My favourite Couperus book (his name pops up a lot in this thread, so why not mention him as well) is Van oude mensen, de dingen die voorbijgaan. World class.
Very influential in the 70s and 80s were the Heeresma brothers. A Day at the Beach, bij Heere Heeresma, is among the more famous works. My favorite Vestdijk is De dood betrapt, a collection of novellas.