Why is the Iliad considered a fundamental part of the canon?
Why is the Iliad considered a fundamental part of the canon?
Christopher Smith
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Hudson Turner
Because Patroclus/Achilles is the OTP of most classics scholars.
Justin White
largely its relationship to the odyssey
Jason Russell
''''classics''' are meme.
Chase Mitchell
Pretty must just because it clarifies the setting of the Odyssey
Jace Carter
The Iliad and Odyssey exalt the nobility of Honor.
The very first word of the Iliad is “RAGE.” The “RAGE” of Achilles when his honor is violated and his rightful prize and love is taken from him by his very own commander.
Right here we see Man versus State, as Achilles is the superior warrior, and as he takes all the risks, he ought get the reward. That is the Natural Law of Zeus, for after Achilles Natural Rights are violated and Achilles quits, Zeus sees to it that the Greeks begin to lose, as Zeus’s will was done.
Long before Atlas Shrugged in Rand’s cheap novel, Achilles quit the Greek army.
Homer shows that women who honor their commitments, like Penelope, lead to happy endings. Women who disregard their commitments, like Helen, lead to War.
Achilles quits for the sake of Honor, refuses to return when offered millions times more prizes, arguing that once honor is taken away, mere money/prizes cannot buy it back. He also reasons that all the wealth in the world is not worth him losing his life in an arena where his honor was taken away. When offered honors and awards, Achilles states, “I receive my honor from Zeus, not from corrupt Kings."
And too Achilles returns to fight for Honor, so as to avenge the death of his friend Patroculus, knowing full well he will die.
Simply put, Achilles is a man who lives and dies not for mere prizes, nor perks, nor tenure, nor titles, nor money, but for honor, and honor alone.
A few hundred years later, Socrates would invoke Achilles while facing death at his own trial. Socrates was offered perks and prizes and life if he would only recant his teachings that “Virtue does not come from money, but money and every lasting good of man derives form virtue.”
But then Socrates asked, “Would Achilles back down from battle if bribed by physical wealth?” Socrates reasoned he would be dishonoring the Great Achilles if he ever recanted his teachings.
And of course Socrates mentored Plato who mentored Aristotle who mentored Copernicus/Newton/Galileo, who gave birth to Western Science and Technology and Freedom, all via the Homeric Honor of Achilles.
Jack Gomez
Shit take.
"'Agamemnon-was it better for both of us, after all,
for you and me to rage at each other, raked by anguish,
consumed by heartsick strife, all for a young girl?
If only Artemis had cut her down at the ships--
with one quick shaft-
that day I destroyed Lyrnessus, chose her as my prize.
How many fewer friends had gnawed the dust of the wide world,
brought down by enemy hands while I raged on and on. 70
Better? Yes-for Hector and Hector's Trojansl
Not for the Argives. For years to come, I think,
they will remember the feud that flared between us both.
Enough. Let bygones be bygones. Done is done.
Despite my anguish I will beat it down,
the fury mounting inside me, down by force.
Now, by god, I call a halt to all my anger-
it's wrong to keep on raging, heart inflamed forever.'"
Adam Green
If you think that Achilles would have a different reaction if agamemnon tried the same shit a second time you are an idiot.
Ryder Perry
it's not. it's a meme that everyone decided to collectively write fanfic about, passing it off as proper literature, brainwashing generations after generations of Europeans into reading archaic poetry about boats and the names of literal whos, seemingly forming the basis of western culture but really just setting up its eventual downfall
Joshua Cooper
When was this collective decision made? I wasn't informed
Charles Ross
Why is it such a struggle for teenagers to understand the Iliad?
Nolan Bell
I find that it's less of struggle for teenagers and moreso for the more femme, skinny, nerdy, unathletic, "intellectual" type guys. I recall reading it in high-school. All the foot-ball playing chads, although not necessarily intelligent, "got" it. Meanwhile, all the guys of the type described above (and the girls for that matter) floundered.
Leo Morgan
The Achilles you put into this story isn't just at total odds with the nature of Homer's protagonist, it's uninspired disgrace compared to the humanity Homer's Achilles possesses.
A man who would willingly let his comrades fall down to the earth in the name of his pride all over again AFTER having made this mistake once before, as your Achilles would, is unspeakably wicked. And a man who would this after having mourned his comrades deaths and rejected his prideful ways, as Homer's Achilles does, is also insane.
Homer knew all this. It's why the Iliad is crafted around Achilles' mistake. Agamemnon offers Briseis back and asks forgiveness for his transgressions, and Achilles lashes out in childish anger in response. Because that what Achilles is in this moment: a child. Not yet a hero, not until the moment when he chooses to reject his prideful ways through his action.
Connor James
>t.
Brandon Bailey
Because of the racial diversity it founds Western literature on from the very beginning, so that racist fucking fascist pigs can't ever say it's a white male canon, um no sweetie check the facts the Iliiad, the first major Western work, not only had a huge cast of arguably African characters, but HOMER HIMSELF was probably African, based on the structure of the bust we have of him and some recent DNA findings that show high traces of melatonin. This, more than anything, is why it is remembered. The quality of the writing and story itself is nothing exceptional. It's reported that many in his own time only found his work so interesting because it was by a black man, which was as exotic and exciting then as it is today, when we listen to, say, Jay Z or Migos.
Dominic Scott
Or perhaps, and hear me out on this: the impact it had on subsequent works of Western Canon was enormous?
Paradise Lost, the Aeneid, and The Divine Comedy couldn't be the same without the Iliad. It doesn't have to be much more complicated than that
Noah Walker
>t. i just browsed /pol/ for the first time
Nice babby's first satire there, stupid.
Zachary Nelson
So literature is never good in itself? Clearly you could pick up Dostoevsky and objectively say it's great, right?
Nathan Wilson
>I can spot when a satirist isn't being serious
Really flaunting your high IQ dude, can I get a WHOA in this club
Jackson Brooks
Dostoevsky is majorly overrated, but yes he's objectively superior to the majority of writers, ever. Like top 500.
Jonathan Harris
Well no, that's not what I said at all. But let's move on to this entirely new topic of discussion
Mason Cruz
Don't be mad because I anally owned you.
Jace Campbell
>Why is the Iliad considered a fundamental part of the canon?
>people respond with various hot takes on what the point of the Iliad is
The Iliad is a fundamental part of the canon because the canon literally started with it, was built on top of it. Kinda like a foundation.
Daniel Long
Because David has to Kill Goliath
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Isaiah Hernandez
Because Plato quotes him all the fucking time.
Ian Morgan
Can we at least agree that Diomodes is best boy?