seemed like we had a good discussion the other day re: literature about the LSAT/law school, general law discussion, etc.
anyone else studying for the test? what are you using to prep?
i just took an old test without practice and got a 170 but took ~50min on the logic games section
Abstain from both masturbation and sex. Coffee. Nicotine gum. Will clear the sexual background processes. Set a schedule. All of these helped immensely with the MCAT for me. Won't improve your score much with the LSAT, if at all but it will make you more motivated to study and retain more of what you've prepared for. Might be ideal for timing and recognizing the question sort.
>Coffee. Nicotine gum.
Take*
Take practice tests and study the questions you missed. Repeat.
unforunately theres no exam in august, so it's either mid-july which seems too early or september, which seems to late.
how is it seen if you cancel a score/take the test multiple times?
when do most t14 applications open/is it rolling like in undergrad where the earlier the app is in the better?
Why quit masturbation? After about 10 years of jerking it at least 5-10 times a day quitting may be an even larger distraction
do you really jerk that often?
You've reinforced its grip over you and the strength of these urges. At 5-10 times per day, I'd advise pharmacological intervention, at least until the habit is disrupted (~1 year duration).
I’m a lawyer. I’m sure you’ve thought it through user, but it’s a really awful profession. I’m a successfully lawyer in a big city and yet I consistently rank law school as the worst decision I’ve made in my entire life. There is no escape from law after you finish, no going back, no being a writer or an avid reader or experience your twenties or early thirties. Just really think it through is all I’m saying. Only go if you’re fully committed to sacrificing everything else.
You need to put the 35 minute timer on you and its useless practice if you don't. Half the battle is pacing yourself within the 35 minutes.
What do you practice
I’m in biglaw so it varies. Mostly business and white collar/securities litigation.
you could become an AUSA
Why? So I can work the same amount of hours and make half as much? It’s all grueling work, may as well be able to afford fancy things.
Go into compliance.
You don’t need a law degree to do compliance.
Yeah, but it gives you an advantage, and you will have a better work life balance.
AUSA is a lot of trials and interesting, if you like that or it’s important to you
Great camaraderie
You’ll be in the news
Yeah i figured
Maybe I will look into it. Maybe you’ll have helped improve my life.
Au revoir anons, there are hours to bill. Godspeed!
I will fail 3 (three) law exams in the coming month, starting tomorrow. I have done nothing to prepare for any of them. At the same time, I have been ignoring my friends and family, and have bare shown up to work, under the pretense of spending my time studying. AMA
what HAVE you been doing?
Wasting time on Yea Forums, Youtube, and more than anything, different camgirl websites. These past couple of months have turned me into something I never imagined for myself, and I find myself increasingly attracted to drinking and smoking the discomfort away.
Heh me four years ago.
Good luck with the wild ride, be ready for things to get worse. The drug taking will. If you don't end up killing yourself, now is when things might finally start getting better, though I still type this as a NEET currently living with my grandparents.
Agreed. Fellow biglaw attorney here. Law school was great and had little to no pressure but all the work post-law school either pays too little or pay a lot but sucks ass
I hadn't even had a single sip of alcohol, or smoked weed even once, until earlier this year. Half of March and April I smoked pretty much every other night, and I've taken to drinking every couple of days. Everything has changed in such a short measure of time. I fear for the future, bros.
shouldnt you be working?
i know this but there's no money or jobs in academia or writing, so what else am i supposed to do with my life? if i become a lawyer at least i'll have income, healthcare, retirement, etc.
Why is September too late?
I'm planning on taking it in September and then submitting applications immediately after. When does the application window open for schools?
What else am I supposed to do with my English degree? The only reason I'm studying English is to help me as a lawyer
no good reason, just bc ill be sitting around all summer and im 29
Why exactly does biglaw suck? Can I get a realistic idea of what a biglaw lawyer does? How many hours a week do you actually end up working? Doing the math 45 hours a week comes out to 2500 hours a year, which is what NYC lawyers need to bill. 45 hours a week is nothing, I used to work 60.
You're literally me. I'm 29(in a week) and am taking summer off from school and work and just studying for the LSAT all day like it's my job.
Gonna take the test in September. Hoping my LSAT is high enough for Georgetown as I only have a 3.5 GPA
ha. i have a 3.4 (from a top 20 school, but not hypsm) and am also thinking about georgetown. gtown also is the only t14 program with night school.
how is your studying going? what books r u using? im the op who just took my first practice today, ordered "the blueprint for logic games" and am eyeing the bible, but i think speed will be the biggest hurdle so should maybe just focus on taking practice after practice
what score do you think we need to get into gtown+ assuming perfect essays and all that
I hate the LSAT Superprep book and have just finished going through their sections on each portion of the test. Tomorrow I'm gonna take my first practice test under testing conditions. Based on those scores I have the LSAT Bible set that I will work through, starting with the sections I need the most help on. Then it's just practice tests over and over and going over what I missed and why. Rinse and repeat until late August when my fall semester starts again. Then I'll just try and juggle school and LSAT prep until I take the test in September.
Luckily I have my 3.5 right now and that's why I'll be applying to schools with. I have a hard semester coming up so that will probably drop a little which is why I'm trying to apply to schools sooner rather than later so that the 3.5 is what they'll see.
165ish. I'm shooting for 170 or I'll just retake the test. Georgetown and UCLA are my lowest schools I'll go to. I'm really hoping for Duke or UVA
As a writing emphasis English major I'm not concerned about the essay in the slightest bit, it's literally what I do all day.
*have
how are you still in school? what would a 172+ score mean?
I have my senior year left. Starts in the fall. I'm already 29 so I don't want to waste any time getting into law school and getting it done. I'll be 33 when I'm finished, so I don't want to take any time off in between.
A 172 would basically get you into any law school you want, assuming your GPA isn't terrible. A 3.5-3.8 with a 172 will get you into Harvard/Chicago/Columbia and the rest with scholarship money. You could realistically get into Stanford or Yale with those numbers.
I have met several lawyers who are very happy with their decision, guys
Oh, do you mean how am I still in school for my age? I was in the army before for a long time and before that did humanitarian stuff in Asia, all things that I will put in my personal statement and help my chances even further
For everyone that hates their life as a lawyer there is someone that loves it. It's like any profession.
You have to be 100% committed and sure that you want to be a lawyer, and I am, which is why I don't ever see me regretting it. It's what I've wanted for years
i have more of a 3.3-3.4, is that terrible?
The test is 7 and a half hours, if you need to jerk it every 3 hours, it's gonna be rough.
When I took the MCAT though, I had basically no thoughts of sex in the preceding 2-3 days, I was just hyper focused on the sense of impending last minute preparation. It was hard to focus on studying 4-6 hours a day in the few months leading up to it because of masturbation. Studying is is boring and stressful and there's a computer right there so it interfered a bit.
How did you score btw?
Law school relative to other postgrad options is not the best option for some HOWEVER, it's definitely better than undergrad alone.
You hear all these stories about JDs, (even PhDs) etc regretting that they did this and how they could have made all this money had they went straight to with their BS or BA. BULLSHIT. For as many of them lamenting their tales, there are 10 undergrads who couldn't find work after graduating and just languished, and if they went into default, they cannot even go back to school. As saturated as JDs are now, they still can find work much more easily than someone with just an undergraduate degree and no experience.
Depends. Where are you from and where are you planning on going to school?
If you want to stay local and attend the regional law school then yeah, assuming you do decent on the LSAT you should be fine. But understand that your future career options are determined by where you go to school.
If you want to have national employment options and work in biglaw for the money while you pay off your loans than you're going to need to go to a top school, and with your GPA you're going to need to a high LSAT to be considered a splitter (low GPA high LSAT or the opposite).
Have you graduated yet or are you still in school?
Which is why I'm going to go to law school.
With my English degree I can go to grad school and try and become a professor, or I can work in industry and be an editor, work for a publisher, do content writing for a company or PR or HR related stuff. Any of those are okay, but the pay just isn't there.
If I go to law school and don't even get biglaw after but midlaw in a midsized city I can still make 100k a year.
My wife already makes 60k so together we'd be making a biglaw salary but I wouldn't have to worry about the biglaw grind and hours. I'm totally satisfied with where my life is heading
i graduated when i was 22 (with a 3.35) and have been working as a management consultant since. i'd like to attend a t14 school and a very high lsat score is definitely in the cards—just wondering what i should aim for to give myself a shot
My rule and what I tell everyone I've met who is thinking about law school is 170 is the lowest score you should ever get. If you don't 170 then study a bit more and retake it the next test date.
A 170 can get you into just about any t14 school with most GPAs. 168ish would probably be safe for the lower have of the t14 like Northwestern, but with a 3.35 just to be safe shoot for the 170
I’m a lawyer and I love my job. I work for the local gubmin. Feels good helping townspeople people all day.
So your goal is to not go to court, but you use court as leverage against the other party. When you do go to court you have to prepare for absolutely everything that can happen. If you are going to trial you have to prepare for weeks in advance, on top of your other clients. Your math of 45 hours a week is laughable. You have to research, write, interview clients, interview witnesses, find experts, review the rules, the substantive law, every argument for and against the issue you think MAY come up, and thats just for one case, and one hearing to dismiss. A Trial is that times 20. You have to speak with opposing counsel, who's entire job is to make your job miserable. Not only that, you are in corporate. If you aren't working as hard as your coworkers, you are dropped, so the competitive nature of law school keeps going, with your coworkers, the people you thought were on your side. Everyone is out for blood. Everyone works to the bone. And the law you cover isn't even interesting. It's all about big corporations doing things, buying things, selling things that aren't real, moving around old rich peoples money, drafting 2000 page contracts about moving make believe money and then getting sued over that contract by someone because you or someone else forgot to put a comma on the 1457th page. You aren't helping anyone. Your job isn't meaningful. It's nothing but stress and misery for a big paycheck you have no time to spend.
Public defender or prosecutor or something else?
Interesting. So the hardest part is trying to juggle all the different things you have going on at once?
If you have a case going to trial why are you still being given other clients at the same time? Seems stupid to overload someone like that when trial is so important.
The 45 hours a week was simply dividing hours by months and then weeks. How much do you actually work in a week?
Work for a municipal agency that protects tenants and sues fraudulent landlords.
Based.
Is the pay for that any good or is it shitty like prosecutor pay?
I don't do big law, I'm studying for the bar and have done mostly criminal defense for people. This is just the stories I've heard from professors, lawyers, and other graduates that went into big law.
Why hire more expensive lawyers when you can make a handful work 80 hours a week? Why not use the social pressure from 100 years of context against them to make them work harder?
Also if you work civil defense you charge per hour, so you want to charge a client as much as you can because the legal fees are a better investment than paying out damages to whomever is suing you. Like, why pay everyone who bought a specific model of car, when you could put 4 attorneys working 80 hour weeks for 4 months at making sure the class never gets certified? That 4 million dollars charged to the client is way cheaper than if the class had been certified and had to pay out 200 million.
Has any JD here have a simple jd advantadge job? If so, how is it?
I make $70k and we’re near a large city but it’s comfy enough.
Noice. How is paying off law school loans on 70k?
scored 170s graduated t14
Noice. What kinda legal work are you doing now? Biglaw? In-house?
what about the fbi/a federal agency?
They'll never hire you if you've ever post on this website, lol.
if you think hr departments anywhere are that sophisticated you are delusional
Not great, however I went to a smaller non t14 school so have less of them. However I’m half way there, 5 more years and they’re forgiven (since I work for the gubmin).
I've looked into the foreign service exam a bit and considered working as a diplomat. I can't think of anything cooler than living in another country like that.
It's really selective and competitive though, and it's very hard to get selected with just an undergraduate degree.
I imagine a graduate degree such as a JD would look really good on an application. I'm thinking about taking the bar exam and the foregin service exam and seeing what my options are.
I've considered working in a DA's office as a prosecutor since they pay so little I would qualify for loan forgiveness and PAYE.
Unfortunately combined with my wife's salary I we would make too much so it really ruins my whole plan
do you speak other languages?
Yeah, Tagalog from my time working in the Philippines doing humanitarian stuff for a long time
I wouldn't want to be assigned to the Philippines though if I went that route. I'd want to experience another country
Taking the LSAT in July. 24 year old white male that goes to a top 5 business school with a 2.88 GPA (Haven't written a final paper for any class in the past 4 semesters if I don't like the class because I'm figuratively retarded and hate doing anything I don't want to) and still have 1 semester left. Certified 146 IQ and I LOVE standardized tests (take them for fun) so I should do well on the LSAT, but I haven't studied one bit.
How fucked am, lads? Will any law-school across the nation even accept me?
>2.88
Assuming even half of what you said is true you're still fucked. You'd better hope for 172 or higher to even have a chance at a decent school.
You'd be accepted to a lot of places, but they'll be shitty schools with zero employment prospects
44
Should've thought about that before undergrad desu
Worthless advice.
>Assuming even half of what you said is true you're still fucked
I've got some family friends in the legal community. Just need to go to a law school, get my degree and pass the bar and I'll be fine. Thanks, user. Widener University it is.
I'm a 3.0 GPA physics major at a HYPS, who took the LSAT for a bet and got a 177.
Can I get into a top law school, maybe for patent law? I don't think I'm actually cut out to be a big boy in STEM and thinking of becoming lawyer scum. My professors, in upper level humanities classes, all say I write very well too in case application essays matter. I'm thinking of applying to law school alongside graduate school. I have something that is patent-pending also if that matters
Wait a sec.
Know an user, from ALASKA, who had the worst GPA, at some ALASKAN place, aced LSAT, got into a top 5 Law school
He didn’t do great in law school, but he did better than in undergrad, and he passed the bar with zero prep
Not that user who said it's ogre for that user, but being from Alaska unironically helps boost your application. It's the closest thing to being black that a white person will ever have for admissions.
>pharmacological intervention
I’m just gonna replace it with a bitch
KEK
5-10 times a day will still be debilitating. Replacing the hand with the vagina changes nothing.
>you need a masters to be admitted to the patent bar. some law schools offer joint jd/msc programs so id look into that.
Thanks user. Do you think I have a shot at top law schools though? I'm only really thinking patent law also because I heard it's the easiest to get into since there are so few STEM applicants to law school?
You don't need a masters for the patent bar. You need x amount of credit hours in a hard science and the degree or plan for those hours has to be an approved one by the bar.
I can't fix other people's worthless mistakes. If you're a fan of English so much read a grammar book and you will be a 97% better writer than all English majors.
The art-of-manliness guy has a law degree and he just writes whatever he wants all day.
They're not as all-knowing as you think. Three letter agencies love law degrees. So do the higher ranks of state and local law enforcement.
Pathetic
Just kys and do a favour to humanity
Im no expert, but i think a 177 means everything is on the table. What i dont understand is that it doesnt seem to matter where your ugrad degree is from. Is my 3.4 at a top 15 ugrad really worse than some at umd’s 3.8?
Also, what do you think of zeno’s paradox?
There are direct correlations between GPA and LSAT scores for how you will do in law school. There are direct correlations between law school GPA and Bar passage rate. Schools just want everyone to pass the BAR while making sure they can get students in the door to make a profit. Your school and other parts of the application are just there for when you tie with other applicants.
Does going to the law school’s ugrad school help at all?
Help with what? Getting in? Yeah. Doing law school things? Fuck no.
Yeah, getting in. Its a bump?
Depends on the school. Those ivy league schools won't give a shit, but the smaller schools like having alum. But you were gonna get into those schools anyway.
What about gtown, northwestern, tier schools? School by school basis?
Fuck if I know. Go to law school if you really want to study law. Don't if you don't.
is going to law school to become a law-focused academic a path? history of law, philosophy of law, etc., or are there different phd programs for that sort of thing? are law school professors like b-school professors, going in and out of practice at some point?
People who go to law school, get in the top percentile, clerk for famous judges for a few years, normally go on to become professors. One of my professors was the expert on Torts in Texas, he never practiced a fucking day of real law. Most of the other professors had practiced for a decade, made their money, had a family, and wanted to slow down. They also went to top schools and shit. Another chunk of professors were all part time, teaching a class in what they specialize in during the evenings.
The joke is: A students become professors, B students become judges, and C students make the money.
What do you know about being a judge? Is it all over the place depending on geography? Are they still highly coveted positions? What are most judge’s backgrounds? Would it be something you could deliberately pursue?
In Texas judges are elected. Federal judges are appointed. Administrative judges are hired. It's a very wide background from all fields because many judges hold over a court of a specific field.
>elected judges
That sounds like a recipe for disaster
It is
Operation Greylord, etc.
Based
i have done some forml logic and could bust it out for these logic games but it seems like itd slow me down too much—quicker to brute force the Qs and just stop and think for a second re: more difficult ones
How much do you earn (after taxes)?
No idea about after taxes. Probably around $150k / yr
anyone else feel that the logical reasoning and reading comp section passages/examples touch on certain issues way too frequently for it to be coincidence? someone could analyze the exams from the last ten years and find a clear political position
Go back to pol, brainlet.
Are all these biglaw lawyers complaining about their lives single? If you're married and your spouse works you can combine your income and make as much as you would in biglaw in a smaller market with less pay but more livable hours and conditions.
If I work midlaw and make 80-100k and combine it with my wife's income we'll make 150-160k which is the same as biglaw. Difference is I'll actually have a life and not have to work 80 hours a week and live in fucking Manhattan of all places
You need to diagram logic games unironically. Unless you actually meant logic reasoning which would make more sense.
Not in LR, but i have noticed it in RC. But i think they recognized this and are trying to change it. I even got one that took a conservative position once.
so you did notice?
What camgirl sites are good now?
How hard is law school if you just want to be 50th percentile at a t60 law school?
It sounds like you don't plan on being employed after law school, so save yourself the money and don't bother attending.
I would also like a serious answer to this
based, thank you for serving your country user, pass those values onto your kids. you don't notice it but you're what's left of the cement that holds society together.
177 will get you into many schools, but the 3.0 will knock you out of certain top places.
Check out lawschoolnumbers.com
Pretty easy. But your career prospects will probably be shit.
biglaw is an entirely different beast. you're essentially being groomed to become a salesman if you get to partner level. i see no reason why someone who isn't striving to become a partner stick it out in biglaw for more than 2-3 years. you have to have a flair for schmoozing and pitching exec types if you ever want to be a partner. you're rarely ever going to do the tedious staff/junior level work once you reach that level. if you don't have it in you to be a highly sociable 'salesman' thats brilliant at pitching prospective clients why they should hire your law firm then don't bother staying in big law for more than 2 years. most transfer to a general counsel position at a f500 or 1-2 positions below general counsel and spend the rest of your life on the other side of the b100 pitch game.
Not hard. Better than not going to law school if you have a humanities degree and no other graduate ambitions but don't any chance in hell for being hired by big law. Should expect 70k starting with long hours if you're able to secure employment off the bat. Unemployment won't nearly be as bad as an undergrad with gaps in his employment history. JAG is another option. USAF is selective. Decent salary relative to lower tier JD and incentives for loan repayment.
If it's just about money and employment and you come from a STEM background, PharmD would be more lucrative, and three year accelerated programs exist. Bad news if you don't, most schools are abandoning the PCAT and virtually all have adopted prerequisite requirements in its place. If I had to pick: Top-tier JD > Pharmacy > low-JD > Undergrad alone (unless you have connections and a good job right off the bat).
Link me to an LSAT practice test that will tell me my points.
I did one only to be given the right answers but no 'score' and I wonder if it's linear.
Any other anons prepping for the BAR? Or is the thread full of larping attorneys and tryhards.
Thanks user. I do have a Stem background and was looking into patent law. There's a few options from here, but it was sounding like the "best" law school is not essential for legal track in my case, or at least it wasn't five years ago.
Didn't realize it was that time of the year already. I took California 2 years ago. Studying for it was one of the most miserable several months of my life. Godspeed, user.
is it really that hard
The Cali bar is supposedly insane. Other states are easier
It’s 3 days long testing 3 years of information. No one I have ever talked to has said it was easy or alright.
Who would go to law school if only 20% of the class at a t50 school got jobs. Employment Numbers dont reflect that reality at all. Underwater basket weavers have better job prospects than that. Unless you just mean job prospects = biglaw. In that case, you are dismissing the aims of a lot of people.
That’s what the larpers do. They play into the ploys that large corporations and law schools have pedaled. There’s such a strange culture around getting into law school (t14 and big law or bust) vs those that are actually IN law school. Everyone is pretty chill after the first year fucks em in the ass.
if i am a white male should I allow my race to be seen?
How do I get better at logic games?
Doing law for my bachelor's degree was singlehandedly the worst fucking decision I made in my entire life. Absolutely shitty, uninteresting five years of studies. There is nothing less interesting and less pathetic than law. If you leave the country, your knowledge is gone. I mean, how many other fields of study are this retarded? Being an attorney sucks, getting the bar sucks, dealing with shitty clients trying to defraud the government with their fucking tax schemes sucks, defending companies who are knowingly destroying the environment and dumping shit into rivers sucks, other attorneys always talk about law and about shitty cars and it SUCKS. What's the point of making money if your whole life becomes this hellhole of pathetic fucks thinking they're smart because they deal with law? It's so PATHETIC seeing nobodies seeing themselves as being above mathematicians, physicists, philosophers, artists, engineers when their knowledge is literally memorizing stuff and using it in witty ways. Don't do it, I'm glad I didn't spend one single cent on tuition, so now I'm not a slave.
Cool story bro
What country by the way?
Just took it in February. Passed but it is definitely harder than other states - the scoring is scaled to be harder, there are more topics, and the grading of the essays is very harsh. If you're smart / coming from a decent law school you're probably going to pass, but you have to take it seriously. I took another state's bar before this and didn't even study at all for several of the less commonly tested topics, passed easily.
Nobody who is going to trial at a big law firm is working much on other cases for 2-3 months beforehand. Starting like a month before you are holed up in a hotel somewhere working pretty much nonstop. Some trial teams work you until 3-4 am but as trials go on they will start making dumb mistakes from doing that. That's especially true if it's a longer trial (2-4 weeks is common but some can be much longer). Also there is definitely a billing incentive and trial is the "last gasp" to get hours in any way possible. So sometimes people are just being dragged in to do pointless tasks (i.e., biglaw firms have a core team that worked on the case from early on and are doing the real work, then randoms who are just there to bill).
Could be Australia. They offer undergraduate law degrees with which you can get a decent job straight out of school.
This is a question for you lawyer fags who are already in the business. I'm a 24 year old poli sci major and I'm honestly boiling down my career decisions into either being a cop or a lawyer. I don't have much of a social life outside of a few friends. No GF, wife, children to hold me down atm. But my main motivation is too simply make more money then my brother whose a CPA accountant w/ big 4 experience. I feel like it's only worth being a lawyer if you work at a big firm. What should I do?
Not a lawyer but don't use that as your motivation, it will kill you
I see no issue with dying for something then to continue living for nothing.
Why the fuck would you do biglaw ever? Why do that to yourselves? Is it only for the money? Who cares about money when you're working 80 a week so you never spend it or enjoy anything ever?
If you've ever starved, gone over a year unemployed, had absolutely no resources or anything, you'd understand.
Are you talking in general or as attorney?
>If you're smart / coming from a decent law school you're probably going to pass, but you have to take it seriously
That's about right. Unlike many other standardized tests (SAT, LSAT, GRE, etc.), the bar is primarily testing knowledge, not critical thinking skills. There's really no smart way to approach it other than rote memorization which is time consuming and requires discipline. California is particularly demanding since you also have to memorize a plethora of state-specific laws in addition to everything else.
I took the exam Fall 2017 and passed on my first attempt. I had a job a lined up so failing wasn't really an option. I studied at least 10-12 hours a day for about 2 months, which seems to be fairly typical. In retrospect I probably could have passed doing less, but the consequences of failure were so severe that I couldn't bring myself to do anything else.
Anyway, good luck to anyone currently preparing for the bar. Study hard for a few months and make your first time your only time.
>California is particularly demanding since you also have to memorize a plethora of state-specific laws in addition to everything else
Same thing for every other state that hasn't adopted the standardized test. Texas included.
>law school
>lawyer
>Yea Forums NEETs
whew boy i hope you're all on mommy and daddy's money and aren't actually thinking about this seriously. last i checked, barely a half of law school graduates have a job that requires a law degree and the other half left the profession or never got a job.
Germany
It's really not the same though. California expects more on the essays and is tougher in grading them. Texas is a much, much easier exam.
>barely a half of law school graduates have a job that requires a law degree
The ones that did not require it would not have hired them without prior experience. It also gives them some leverage.
You can actually live off graduate loans. Better than sitting around at home. If you have any gap in employment history, you're screwed for traditional undergrad career paths.
i live in a rural backwater town and i would say all lawyers are salespeople. i cringe at the thought of 4channers thinking this may be their career because lawyers are the exact antithesis of a fucking shitposting NEET. who do you think has the money to pay you a lawyer salary? you don't think corporations and country club rat fuckers won't make you dance for them like walmart slaves?
more credibility as a NEET with a JD than just a NEET.
You can get much farther with a kind word and a JD than you can with a kind word alone
The smart path is to learn how to win a lawsuit and then sue corporations and country club ratfuckers and make them dance for you. Fee shifting statutes are your friend.
>NEET going hundreds of thousands into debt for a JD
please don't. we already have a hard time getting a minimum wage job and sticking with it. imagine how much more soul sucking and throat cutting this asshole sucking field is.
literally in the top 3 google search results bro...
>barely a half of law school graduates have a job that requires a law degree
This is so completely false and unfortunately it keeps getting spread around so people like you actually believe it.
I'm not doing a whole test again only to get no point conversion.
>gone over a year unemployed,
ai will take over most big law positions below partner and junior partner
retard. please don't get a jd if you're not a type A person
this
Its good misinformation though because the idiots who believe it keep the labor pool of lawyers smaller than it would have been. Things have really improved for the field over the last 3 years not to mention over the last 10 years.
Having a JD grants authorities that AI cannot. It's a legally protected profession for now for post positions.
Just buy a pt book like the rest of us.
If the rats in dc can do at least one thing right, its protecting lawyers.
Im in Europe and pretty happy with my engineering degree so far.
I just wonder how hard it is to get those magical 170 points.
If you don't know the answer then don't bother replying.
Is the europe lsat different than the US one?
you sound like you're halfway through your JD coping as hard as you possibly can
>grants authorities that AI cannot
that's the point. there will be less need for JDs beyond ones that can grant authority
imagine being an employer and having ai that can interpret the same amount of information and provide better results/predictions and STILL employing hundreds of JDs. you'll only need a fraction from now on
>biglaw
there's your problem
Dunno about other countries, here you apply with the results of a country wide exams in different school fields that you take after high school. Universities choose what subjects count for what major, for law it's history, local language and sociopolitical studies iirc.
Low IQ poster. You can tell. Ignore him.
Probably some shit tier attorney fearing the field will be more saturated and actually thinks disuading a few autists will help him.
AI can't bill by the hour. Most of the lawyer jobs AI can take are already totally pointless. Plaintiff side class action firms will hire people just to run up their lodestar numbers. Defense firms intentionally run young lawyers in circles to get the bill up. "Churn that bill baby!" as DLA Piper says. Do companies care? Not really, their in house lawyers are cozy with friends at the outside firms and often they're getting veiled kickbacks. Never put a $200,000 a year employee in charge of a $20 million outside budget. If AI makes all the work easier it just makes smart lawyers likely to jump to the plaintiff's side since it's cheaper to fund a big case and get started. If the corporations won't pay you, sue them and make them pay you. Frankly your plan shouldn't be to work for anybody long term anyway, once you have some talent and your lodestar number is higher you can do a lot of damage to anybody who tries a losing case against you even if it's small value. Contingent fee practice is the way to go, about 5-10 years out of law school you should be able to win good cases if you take a job focused on getting experience.
i only read the first sentence and have no desire to read the rest. fuck you
i have taken practice iq tests and they're high. take the chip on your shoulder and shove it up your ass, cunt
based
Well then enjoy staying a moron who doesn't understand the industry he's commenting on.
>AI can't bill by the hour.
Big law corps have patents on IP that they leverage while work. They bill clients per hour based on the use of these IP. What makes you think they wont do the same with their ai?
cringe
Because law FIRMS are not the ones writing the AI. Software companies are. If I am a big defense firm, how am I supposed to overcharge for the AI? The software company can go directly to my big corporate client and sell to them. Or they can go to a shittier law firm and sell through them. With a junior associate you have to have a lawyer supervise them. Ethics rules (which attorneys wrote and will rewrite to preserve their jobs) don't let nonattorneys do legal work. On the plaintiffs side the reason all these attorneys are being hired is to intentionally increase the attorneys fees under a legal test that does not give AI any bonus in the way it does a human lawyer. Ultimately this is about gaming the system and AI does not help lawyers do that.
how does it not even occur to you that biglaw can poach top software engineers to make things for them so they can patent it. i'm sure there are already thousands of patents for law related tech that doesn't even exist under biglaw firms names
Maybe the nonlawyers should sit this one out. You really think law firms are going to start hiring software engineers, beat all the AI startups trying to compete with them at their core competency, and then "just go get some patents bro?" Why do they even want to do this? Their business model is to generate a bunch of bullshit makework and then bill giant companies whose legal departments are run by their close friends. AI does not help the process of generating bullshit makework.
>and then
before you dumb faggot you don't need to make something before you can patent it. just come up with the idea.
>Why do they even want to do this?
so that sub100law doesn't leverage this tech and try to use it against t100
>heir business model is to generate a bunch of bullshit makework and then bill giant companies whose legal departments are run by their close friends.
haha yea dude everyone friend and network xDD. if f500 companies could get the same results from ai and a few dozen lawyers they'll turn on their old college buddies at top100 in a heartbeat. we seem to disagree on AI's potential to replicate the same results that top100 gets. time will tell. i hope you continue snideposting in law threads at nonlawyers because it'll be the only source of merriment you'll have in your life
I got a 172. For me
>Buy the LSAT bible books and read them cover to cover twice
>Practice tests/problems 2-3 hrs a day
>Periodically reread LSAT bibles
I plateaued after 2 months but studied for four months total. Tbh, I never went to law school. I applied to some schools, got half scholarships to UCLA and Vandy, a full ride at Wash U, and waitlisted at Duke, U-Penn, and a few other t-14s (white guy, 3.42 UG GPA).
Honestly, being a lawyer sucks. I've been doing the teaching English in Asia thing for the last couple years and I don't regret skipping out on law school.
You're an obvious dumbass with no idea how either the patent system, the legal system, or giant corporations actually work. All of it is a game and you clearly don't know how to play.
>You're an obvious dumbass with no idea how either the patent system, the legal system, or giant corporations actually work. All of it is a game and you clearly don't know how to play.
Different user here. Redpill me on this. What are some books to read to learn about this game?
If AI will replace law it definitely will replace undergrad careers. Law is better than undergrad. Undergrads basically a GED today.
Fuuuuck now I really want to be an FSO
For law anyway most is seeing it up close, but you can get a good inside view by reading stuff like Fall of the House of Zeus about Dickie Scruggs, Circle of Greed about Milberg Weiss. Those guys both crossed lines in ways most people avoid doing, but because they got prosecuted you can see how they were actually running a firm. For defense and biglaw it's not a book but look up the lawsuit on overbilling against DLA Piper a few years back. Their e-mails got produced and a lot came out about how those firms handle their files and it's true broadly, not just there. They were strategizing over how to purposely overbill. Most lawyers wouldn't be dumb enough to write it down but they for sure do it. Partners get promoted sometimes because they are great at wasting other people's time. As far as how the friend connection stuff works I can't think of any books on it but if you start getting into that world you'll see in house counsel trying to get personal benefits from people to hire their firms. Free vacation, do work for my side business, etc., and I actually think there are a lot of direct under the table payments going on.
I go to school at Columbia and am allowed to study at the Law Library there where they have a student lounge that I have access too. Do you think chatting up with some of the students can get me some inside view what's going on or are they only going to be vaguely aware? Any idea on trying to how to chat with them, feign interest in going to law school?
They're probably not going to know. It's not openly talked about even once you're in a big firm. If you're an associate at a big law firm the partners don't go tell you they're wasting your time. They keep assigning you pointless tasks over and over and eventually you realize what's happening. I was expressly told about it once but only in a "watch out this is what he does and the client thinks you're at fault" scenario. There are lots of judicial opinions and law review articles criticizing abuses but sometimes those are politically motivated too. Your best bet is get in and get a mentor or get somebody drunk. Honestly the smartest way to do law now is to plan to start your own firm and do litigation because you can force people to pay you (look up fee shifting). Go someplace you can get the best experience, and once you can win a suit yourself there is no shortage of people getting fucked over who you can take on contingency. Make sure the person you're suing is being an asshole and it's not hard to win.
>Your best bet is get in and get a mentor or get somebody drunk.
I doubt I'll ever go to law school, so the mentor thing is out of the window. But this is all really interesting stuff.
I read "The Common Law: Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr." last week, do you have anything else you recommend reading for someone interested in learning how law works and all?
If it's just theoretical the Art of Cross Examination, Gerry Spence books, A Civil Action. There is the law (the rules that work like a chess game) and the human persuasion that is going on about what is just. They happen side by side, influence each other, and they're not the same. If a judge decides one side is the bad guys, they will often suddenly find themselves on the losing end of a lot of rulings even if "the law" would suggest they should win.
>muh biglaw
boy are you guys delusional, but i guess this is how they make big bucks off your naive asses.
>Jobs at large law firms are not spread evenly across all law schools. Graduates from the top 20 law schools (by placement in large firms) consistently obtain more than half of these jobs. In 2018, on the other hand, 108 schools (53.5%) had less than 10% of their graduating class employed at by large law firm (in any job), with a majority of these schools having less than 5%.
This is great, thanks user!
>Things have really improved for the field over the last 3 years not to mention over the last 10 years.
By what measure? Law school sounds like absolute dog shit for anyone who isn't born with a silver spoon. What reason do you have to believe employment or salary trends will improve for the majority of lawyers? Nobody is denying things are good for the top 10%, but what are the odds Yea Forums, of all people, are in that category?
>Attending law school used to almost guarantee a solid career path and bright income prospects, but that is no longer the case. The cost of getting a JD has risen astronomically according to law school debt statistics. In fact, getting a law degree is now 3 to 5 times more expensive than it was 30 years ago even after adjusting for inflation. Most of the lawyers I’ve helped have around $200,000 in student debt.
>The second major reason why law school grads are feeling the pinch is that the high-paying jobs from larger law firms have dried up considerably. Sure, the starting salary for an associate has gone up over the last 10 years but the numbers are skewed. The most dramatic increases have come from the few who graduated at the top of their class from the top private law schools who took a job in a major city at firms with 700+ employees.
>Lastly, there are just fewer jobs available and it looks like that trend could continue. Summer associate jobs at the big law firms are going to be down this year. Newly minted JDs who were able to secure full-time legal jobs is the lowest in over 30 years.
studentloanplanner.com
I've been looking into a lot.
Like i said, I'll do law school but maybe instead of the bar I'll take the foreign service exam instead. See what works out first
It's almost like not everyone wants to work in biglaw and picks their school accordingly.
Retard
Read den of thieves. Mostly about finance industry but some really good info about The corp lawyers that were involved
lmao imagine actually writing those last two sentences
All college is absolute dog shit these days. Might as well go for a JD if you don't have any other postgrad plans.