What do the great philosophers say about being a NEET?

kek

Don't forget Cioran
Stirner (?)

OP you’re a fucking retard

>Aristotle, Baudrillard, Cioran
Elaborate

>Aristotle
The highest activity for Totle is philosophy (after that: politics), an activity of useless theory spent in leisure (scholê) - of course, this does overlap with education (the Lyceum), but ultimately the master of the household, if he be wealthy enough, will be concerned solely with this useless activity, and have others command the slaves, and other such vulgar workly-economic matters.
>Baudrillard
See "The Mirror of Production" and his short article on Bataille detailing his aristocratic critique of capitalism.
>Cioran
On the Heights on Dispair
>Men generally work too much to be themselves. Work is a curse which man has turned into pleasure. To work for work’s sake, to enjoy a fruitless endeavor, to imagine that you can fulfill yourself through assiduous labor — all that is disgusting and incomprehensible. Permanent and uninterrupted work dulls, trivializes, and depersonalizes. [...] That each of us must have a career, must enter upon a certain form of life which probably does not suit us, illustrates work’s tendency to dull the spirit. Man sees work as beneficial to his being, but his fervor reveals his penchant for evil. In work, man forgets himself; yet his forgetfulness is not simple and naive, but rather akin to stupidity. Through work, man has moved from subject to object; in other words, he has become a deficient animal who has betrayed his origins. Instead of living for himself — not selfishly but growing spiritually — man has become the wretched, impotent slave of external reality. Where have they all gone; ecstasy, vision, exaltation? Where is the supreme madness or the genuine pleasure of evil? The negative pleasure one finds in work partakes of the poverty and banality of daily life, its pettiness. Why not abandon this futile work and begin anew without repeating the same wasteful mistake? Is subjective consciousness of eternity not enough? It is the feeling for eternity that the frenetic activity and trepidation of work has destroyed in us. Work is the negation of eternity. The more goods we acquire in the temporal realm, the more intense our external work, the less accessible and farther removed is eternity. Hence the limited perspective of active and energetic people, the banality of their thought and actions. I am not contrasting work to either passive contemplation or vague dreaminess, but to an unrealizable transfiguration; nevertheless, I prefer an intelligent and observant laziness to intolerable, terrorizing activity. To awaken the modern world, one must praise laziness. The lazy man has an infinitely keener perception of metaphysical reality than the active one.

Guénon sums it up pretty well, modern wagie life is essentially infrahuman existence.

>In our time it is fashionable to exalt work of whatever sort and no matter how it is accomplished, as if it had some superlative value in itself independently of any consideration of another order. Contrary to what the moderns think, any work that is done indiscriminately by anyone solely for the pleasure of acting or because of the need to ‘earn one’s living’ hardly merits being exalted, and indeed it can only be regarded as something abnormal, opposed to the order that ought to regulate human institutions, to such a point that, in the conditions of our age, it only too often acquires a character that without any exaggeration qualifies as ‘infra-human’. What our contemporaries seem to ignore completely is that work is not truly valid unless it conforms to the very nature of the being that accomplishes it and results therefrom in a spontaneous and necessary way, as it were, so that it is no more than the means for that nature to realize itself as perfectly as possible.
- "Glorification Of Work" - René Guénon

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Quality post

Emerson said that if you can't sustain yourself then you should kill yourself.

They're both wankers.

I prefer this quote:
>In the Satya Yuga, mankind could manifest Coca-Cola® by the exercise of will alone, in unlimited quantities and of paradisaical quality. In our age, for those men of traditional tastes, those intrepid seekers after eternal bliss, the discipline and effort required to walk down the street to the local market can still procure one the incomparable pleasures of a Coca-Cola®.
Rene Guenon (The Symbolism of the Soft Drink, p. 56)

kek get rekt

>In the Satya Yuga, mankind could manifest Coca-Cola® by the exercise of will alone, in unlimited quantities and of paradisaical quality. In our age, for those men of traditional tastes, those intrepid seekers after eternal bliss, the discipline and effort required to walk down the street to the local market can still procure one the incomparable pleasures of a Coca-Cola®.
Rene Guenon (The Symbolism of the Soft Drink, p. 56)

>The Coca-Cola® Company , because it opens out a limitless vista of possibilities, must take care never to lose sight of the inexpressible, which indeed constitutes its very essence.

> The men of today boast of the ever growing extent of the modifications they impose on the world, and the consequence is that everything is thereby made more and more ‘artificial’, but there is still some real things left in the world. Like an ice cold bottle of Coca-Cola®

Rene Guenon( Man and His Becoming According to the Real Thing p.127 and 145)

>It is of the nature of desire for Coca-Cola® not to be satisfied, and most men live only for the gratification of it.

Aristotle ( On the Soft Drinks, Book II, 1107a.15)

neet is a comfy philosopher

Socrates was a NEET.

"Great things come to those who spend all day masturbating, playing videogames and shitposting on 4channel." - Diogenes

NEETs are usually perpetually liminal/submerged in a liminal space (if on the internet 24/7), so a lot are edgy nihilists desu

"Behold a meme!" - Diogenes

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i do it to especially grind your gears

delete this thread

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NEETs are mentally ill retards who can't live without being parasites on the state or their government. It's a sad lowly existence. Work frees the soul.

It certainly does frees the soul. Now could you please clean those ovens for me?

Socrates was a neet by today standards, so were the cynics. Stoics, especially epictetus said that it is better to die of hunger than to lose ones tranquil mind. Stoics would say that it is literally better to die on the streets rather than lose your peace of mind in work or somewhere toxic.

Epictetus in enchiridion: >It is better to die of hunger having lived without grief and fear, than to live with a troubled spirit, amid abundance

>NEETs are actually trying to justify their existence like this lmao
Even a janitor or a burger flipper is worth more to society than a NEET. A NEET provides a net loss to society as they take in more tax dollars (dollars which come about as a result of productivity) than they provide to society. Can you imagine what would happen if all janitors stopped working tomorrow? Within a couple days the society we live in would be filthy. This shows that janitors provide value even if they have low social status. What would happen to society if all NEETs stopped existing tomorrow? Nothing. It would actually improve society since the tax dollars they siphon would actually be put to productive use.

Not true. Wageslaves are actually more evil because by their actions of wageslavery they enable slavers and low pay. They promote the evil overlord culture that hoard resources. By working you are actually not providing any value but instead you are empowering the rich overlord slavers and even enforce their will to others. By selling fastfood you even promote vice and bad health to your fellow citizens. By having this mentality you promote mental slavery and obedience to evil. You are promoting vice and nothing good would come out of it. Piety is to be found in work that promotes the common good of fellow citizens, not resources and power of your overlords. Please do not go the path of evil as it is better to die and live in shame by evil society than to live to infest and poison others.

Based

NEETs steal the labor of their parents and of hard working members of society. How is this not immoral? Those workers you condemned as evil are providing a value to society. They are needed by society hence why they are paid.

society doesn't care about you in the same sense you don't owe anyone anything.
Also a hot take but if you're not innately likeable, no amount of promotions is going to help people seeing you as anything but a peasant, (perhaps a smart peasant)

>his short article on Bataille detailing his aristocratic critique of capitalism.
Just read but he didn't seem to be agreeing with Bataille. Was a nice read though, thanks

Yes, it paves the way for his Symbolic Exchange and Death

The amount that neets steal is a pittance to what the recipients of bailouts (high status bankers, the real welfare queens) leech from society. The neet is not admirable (since if they were using their time in a valuable way they wouldnt be 'NEET' indefinitely, but refusing to take part in consumer culture as such is, arguably.

'Society' will likely depreciate humans in the near future. It is moral to fight against 'society' at least to the extent that you try to change its direction

STOP. NEET BAD

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...

This is literally the equivalent of a non-tipping American's argument: "the tipping system is immoral so I'm not going to tip." Meanwhile, if someone doesn't tip, all the boss says is "tough shit." If you are a NEET living off another wageslave's income, you are 100% a parasite, and your attempts to convince yourself that it's actually a protest against an immoral status quo are a retroactive justification for your laziness. If you want to combat the status quo, cut yourself off from it completely. As it is, you are reaping the benefits of wageslavery and refusing to admit it.

>t. demoralized wageslave.

In the current system working is the worst way possible to produce money. How can people get passive income, but others have to work for it? Leeching via interests is not seen as something immoral, while leeching as a neet is immoral.

You did not read my post correctly. If you claim to be against wageslaving, or any of the other flaws in our current economic system you identified, you should do something about it other than sit on your ass. You cannot seriously have the audacity to think that you are doing something worthwhile by sitting at home while your father puts in 60 a week at the factory and feeds you with his earnings.

Respond to these.

Usually that's not how Americans rationalize not tipping anyway, they just say they don't have to and if the server doesn't like it they should get another job. It's usually old rich people too, grinds my nerves. Bust there's nothing wrong with being a NEET

Not him.
I agree that you should use your time productively, even as a NEET. I believe if you use your time productively over time you'll eventually stop being a NEET incidentally (starting a political movement that gets so big its a 'job' for example.)
But do you have the same moral outrage for bankers who get bailouts?

As I said, if you don't want to feed consumer culture, the excesses of capitalism, etc., then find a way to support yourself that isn't just siphoning resources from other wageslaves. This does absolutely nothing to solve those problems. Stop trying to convince yourself that doing absolutely nothing is somehow virtuous.

Being a NEET isnt a virtue, way better than being a wagekek though.

>Wake up whenever I want
>Shower as long as I want
>Eat as quickly as I want
>Tend my garden
>Walk my dog
>Read at the park
>Come home whenever I want
>Write
>Paint
>Fix up old motorcycle
>Finish up personal projects
>Evening is open to do whatever I want, no energy drained away at a day job
Yup, let me get a job to free myself lmao
Have fun buddy, if this is mental illness than I don't want to be healthy

Where's Diogenes?!

Lmao rekt and chekt

Stop trying to find reasons to justify your poor way of life. Journey to become better, not stagnant.

Can't even spell right. You can literally do nearly all of those things while having a job, or going to school

Yeah that poor grammar is ridiculous. He doesn't even know which 'then' to use

This is the power of wageslave cope? HAHAHAHA spelling critique and pure delusion. No you cannot do all that with a job you dumb fuck, as if there's more than 24 hours in a day. Would love to see you try to fill all that up in the 4(generous) free hours you have available working your 9-5 or back breaking labor. Reminder that anybody who achieved mastery of any of the pursuits listed never had a job, keep toiling away in the vain hope that your book you've been working on and off on for 8 years will be anything but disjointed trash. These niggas suscribe to the cult of "hobbies" and believe it is synonymous with the creation of actual valuable art. Insects

I'm pro NEET simply because of how viscerally and deeply butthurt it makes a handful of posters who just HAVE to spew jealous vitriol in these threads. I bust my ass 60 hours a week in the dirt but imo if you can get by without working and you are happy, fucking do it. Your only other option is making some kikes rich from your labor.

>work will le set you le free

PEAK COPE

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Everything is ok as long as you consume.

>You can literally do nearly all of those things while having a job, or going to school

no you absolutely cannot. scheduling is the very foundation of work or school, it's a heteronomous structuring and striation of YOUR time - your BEING. if you are going to school or working, you absolutely CANNOT wake up or go to sleep whenever you want. you CANNOT get to choose when to do this or that, all of it is entirely codified by a greater will.

if you aren't in control of your own schedule, you aren't in control of your own life. you are a puppet on a string. now dance for me wagie, dance!

Look who wondered out of his wage cage. Shouldn't the workplace monitoring drones have reported him for insubordination?

as an ameritard, how do i sign up for my NEETbux?

this "wage cage" allows me to support myself in my 3 bedroom apartment, it allows me to support my wife, it gives me the freedom to travel, the freedom to purchase nice things and experiences which I enjoy, it allows me to engage in my hobbies, it gives me respect amongst my peers, it gives me social status, it gives me money/wealth which I can use to become financially free, etc.

this isn't a cage, this is normal everyday life. work is part of life. work is life.

having money is amazing. i can buy new books, i can buy a new car, i can buy a new computer, a bigger house, i can travel to amazing places, i can try out new restaurants, i can help people etc.

money = freedom to enjoy life and you can only get it through working aka being a ''wagecuck''. NEETs, tell me, do you hate money? if not then why aren't you maximizing your time to obtain more of it so u can enjoy life better? don't tell me going to a 5 star restaurant is not better than eating another lousy microwaved meal. don't tell me that travelling in 4 or 5 accommodation to an exotic island is not better than walking around in your city trying to discover shit you've already seen a million times.

>wife
>purchase nice things
>hobbies
>respect from peers
>social status
>work is life
Based NPC, I honestly think your presence is beneficial. So genuine, a nice break from the neurotic screeches of smarter folks. Like petting a happy dog at the end of a long day. Thanks user

Not only that, you get to experience socializing in an environment and help build a better workplace culture and overall impact others and society, in varying degrees depending on what you do.

Nothing more meaningful than working. I would do it even if I didn't get paid. :3

>thinking you're better than everyone else because you're different
yer fuck me for being a normal healthy person. guess I'm an NPC.

>working for money
>not being born into wealth

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>having money is amazing. i can buy new books,
Books are literally free

>i can buy a new car
Any car over $10,000 and under $100,000 is complete trash. If you're not a millionaire this kind of boasting is pathetic. Whoa bro, you got a brand new soapbox crossover with angry headlights, real jealous

>i can buy a new computer, a bigger house,
This is true, but I don't really need a big house so it's not a motivater to me or a lot of other NEETS

>i can travel to amazing places,
I still travel to places I'm interested in, the activities I enjoy while traveling is not expensive at all

>i can try out new restaurants,
Don't care
>i can help people etc.
But you don't
>money = freedom to enjoy life
Nah
>and you can only get it through working aka being a ''wagecuck''.
Poorfag family projection

>NEETs, tell me, do you hate money?
No, it's just not interesting

>if not then why aren't you maximizing your time to obtain more of it so u can enjoy life better?
Or I could just maximize my time doing whatever I want and enjoy my life

>don't tell me going to a 5 star restaurant is not better than eating another lousy microwaved meal.
Yea because those are the only two options..... Eating healthy good food is cheap for anybody who isn't a retard

>don't tell me that travelling in 4 or 5 accommodation to an exotic island
This sounds boring, I can travel to exotic islands cheap without the boring resort

>Better workplace culture
>Impact society

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erm... see
I mean, you do need money, but working is more than just getting paid. :3

Define NEET
Is it by the literal term, not working for money or attending school or not working for anything and just sitting around all day until you die? Every single great man in history world be a neet by the literal term

So I work two different jobs. In one, we have a more closed off culture, but some of our employees travel to different business locations. You can view it this way: you impact the people around you, who in turn, go to different businesses and impact them. There is a butterfly effect.

At my other job, I am around people no matter what, increasingly so these days as well. Large amounts of them, I am someone who impacts large groups of people every single day.

When you see what you do to other people, you can even see the effect you are having on the people who rely on you for their day to day routine, or the people who rely on you in your life. The more orderly and professional, the more well functioning everyone else is. You see yourself as more than just a cog in a machine: you see yourself as the fabric of society as YOU know it, and everything that crosses your influence will be impacted positively or negatively by what you've done.

:3

back to your cage wagie!

>im USEFUL as a slave!

fucking yikes, this is peak cope

how do you survive and live without working? since you love answering questions please answer this and be honest.

also how can you be in a meaningful relationship with somebody and be a NEET?

i swear most of you NEETs are just zoomers

That's not what I said at all. Absolutely none of my post had anything to do with any sort of master or slave relation.

I almost took on a managerial role recently, actually, would you consider that being a 'slave'?

>I almost

lol. just lol.

you have zero social status so why do you think you're better than other people?

>travel

Fine, as long as you're not pissing away money and time for luxury resorts that give you little in the way of novel experience.

>nice things

grotesque possessive mindset

>experiences

good

>hobbies

good

>respect amongst my peers, social status

pure spookery

>financially free

NEETs who worked are in the same position; requires relatively little to be financially free if one's consumerist desires are kept to a minimum.

>work is life

Yes, but if it's not work that fulfills you, and which you perform for intrinsic reasons rather than external reward, I'd rather be dead.

So, that's not Butterfly.

Because of me (who I am), this site has recently taken on a new rolling userbase of people. There is something you all should know: if the name is completely bolded like that, it isn't her.

Most of these posts you've been seeing aren't her.

Yeah, I did almost decide to take on that managerial role, but it was for a lesser retail chain, and she said she might have some openings but I'm just not going to call her back because I just got a promotion at my other job.

Have fun being a loser NEET :3

unless you're a billionaire oligarch you're a fucking nobody just like anyone else on this board, kiddo.

oh, wait, hold on, pffffff ahahaha hold on dont tell me, you think you're... you're """middle class""" or something and that warrants some sort of social status? whahahahaaha AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA look at this dude

Manager is the literal definition of the house nigger LMAO

I'm not a full NEET though I'm almost there. I worked a full time job for two years living with my mom and saving every penny I had, bought land an hour outside the city and built a small home. Now I have a place to live with no mortgage or rent, which clears up about 75% of my lifetime expenses. Now I work for 4-6 months every couple of years on various jobs, save 50% of the income and live off the other 50% until I have to work again. The activities and pursuits I like require very little money besides traveling every once in the while, I'm 100x happier like this than I would ever be working a normal job. And personal relationships are the same? Idk how this would make it any different. There's no big money deposit in order to make friends, fuck thots on tinder, or see my family. I'm probably going to get an inheritance in the future which I will quickly invest and live off the interest

have fun being a wagecuck who honest to god thinks he's contributing anything but tax money in the pockets of billion dollar subsidy recipients and kikes invading the middle east

>unless you're a billionaire oligarch you're a fucking nobody
I was browsing tv a while ago and there was a thread that said that Johnny Depp's wife had cheated on him with Elon Musk which made me lol considerably. Johnny Depp, famous actor playboy worth hundreds of millions of dollars, gets cucked by autistic rocket billionaire man.

>buy
>buy
>buy

Consumption and possession are empty. Possession is actually a net negative; the more you own, beyond the necessities, the more you worry and stress.

Going to an exotic island and spending the whole time in restaurants and air-conditioned luxury is seriously degenerate and defeats the whole point. If you're going somewhere new, do it for the adventure and thrill of exploring a new environment, not to be ensconced in a pleasure-cube.

You really don't need much money to live a nice life. Having a girlfriend, family, or a consumption mindset changes that. Having a job adds a ton of stress and saps huge amounts of time from your life; if it can be avoided, it should be avoided. Work is a means to an end -- if your end is not expensive, work can be safely sidelined.

>he bases his self-worth on social status

Your awareness is small and constricted. You ought to spend more time alone. Isolate yourself in nature and read.

Not that guy, but "retired" early onto disability in late middle age.
I can't remember ever working at anything without questioning what the differences are between its actual, imagined, or alleged results, pretty much without regard to who is doing it, but especially out of revulsion to drudgery or risk that is obviously detrimental to health and peace of mind, or simply hideous from an aesthetic point-of-view. Creative and curiosity-satisfying work that has more of play's qualities, and is thereby enjoyable, or at least easily endured, is something I've never gone without for long unless so ill that I'm literally bedridden, whether or not there was an immediate payoff, but always to a view to development, or self-artistry that preserves or enhances the power to enjoy being. Dehumanizing vice comes in too many kinds to list, but the most underrated in their perniciousness are work ethics that ring with the military tone of moral directive.

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Coke or pepsi?
Obvious.
The real question is rum or jager.

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Wagie oh wagie your one hour a day to play call of duty is over. Time to get back to cagie until you can no longer be wagie.

Damn...

Based cokeposter

Dr pepper is good too

I wont sacrifice myself for the "greater cause"; because it is useless and it is self righteous.

Goethe is peak neet.

Only because your masters allow you some milk and honey, does not mean that you are not fundamentally enslaved.

Nietzshe would be against it. His concept of Ubermensch does not look kindly upon NEETdom.

Posting on reddit

Nietzsche was the ultimate NEET after being fired for being hired too young without deserving it, though

based

OP is a fag.

>the ubermensch goes to school and works for money

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reddit is where you should stay, my friend

You can't be a NEET your whole life...

>The project that foresees a 'class' of satiated slaves satified with their lot who work to benefit austere and sober masters, in accordance with the latter's 'creative tasks', is nothing other than a systematization of what Nietzsche sees in the already existing order: namely, that the false hierarchy of the so-called ruling class, which believes it determines the fate of the rarest individuals, hidden among the masses, in reality frees an inverted and secret hierarchy from its most vile tasks - a hierarchy formed by 'surplus men' who are unassimilable to the general interest. The 'rulers' (industrialists, military men, bankers, businessmen, bureaucrats, etc.), with their various tasks, are merely effective slaves who work unknowingly on behalf of these hidden masters, and thus for a contemplative caste that ceaselessly forms the 'values' and the meaning of life.
(Klossowski, Nietzsche et le cercle vicieux. - Very important study of Nietzsche right here)

You cannot be a true philosopher unless you experience struggle

The ubermesch has wageslaves to work for money and he himself works to control the world through shrewdness. He is neither a wageslave nor a NEET

You dumb fucks have warped the definition of neet, it means nothing now. Not in employment education or training, that's it. This does not describes a person who has a "job" and those in school. Those who are not employed, not CEOs who are just alpha wagecucks, those who do not hold a salary, are NEETs. From that fat loser nextdoor playing video games all day, to the son of a wealthy venture capitalist, business owners, to great artists, conquerors, saints, and Kings, they are all NEETs. However 99% of them in this thread are just unmotivated losers, including me. Right now it's ok. I'm not a piece or a player, but I get to watch

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Struggle is not work though? I would say that both struggle (war, action) and idleness are noble characteristics, both removed from vulgar toil.

Ever heard about the hign net worth society?
These are the individuals which invest wealth in society. The reason why we have our
currently freedom to live like we live. Politics takes his place but is mostly for small minded people, because it's just populism. Look at the geography instead, it's more usefull. Aim high, I don't care if you work or not. But I'm going to get a job because I can't live the NEET life anymore, it's ridiculous at some point. But maybe I'm coming back to it later.

NEET d/ic/k here, and I can confirm. There are hobbyists who pretend they can become good artists by drawing for an hour or two a day, but if you ask them to name some great hobbyist artists they fall silent

Aww tell us about the fun toys you bought, son! Did you get a little iphone for yourself? What about a new TV with all the bright shiny colors? Where did you travel? Disneyland? :)

You seem to take the concept of NEET quite seriously, that's interesting. How about this? For the past 11 months, at least until almost 2 weeks ago, I was in education. Basic education; I didn't get my grade 12 in my teens, so I have graduated that basic education now I'm technically a high school graduate. Or at least if I'm asked if I graduated grade 12, I can say "yes". Now, though, for the summer, if I don't manage to get a job (which I am indeed trying to do) then I will be back on income support which is just a pleasant way of saying welfare. I start school again in September, this time for College, and for a degree that'll actually be of use to me either in getting an 'actual' job, or in allowing me to further my entrepreneurial efforts.

Now, having said that, I did say 'further', meaning to expand on it. As of right now I'm making 3-figures a month, and have been consistently managing this for nearly a year now, the vast majority of those months being over $200. Yeah, it's not full-time income, and even part-time income would make me more money (well I guess depending on how many hours are worked), but would you say that over the summer I will be a NEET? Or, because I'm technically self-employed to some degree and making regular income even if it's only 3-figures, does that mean I'm not technically a NEET? I'm leaning towards not being a NEET even though come June my welfare will kick in provided the information I gave was correct. At least it'll only be for 3 months, then in September once education starts, EI will be funding me. I made good money during VERY strenuous physical labour about 7-11 years ago, a form of labour I'm not much interested in going into even though it's very good money.

Tell that to Marx

I'm inclined to agree since he was borrowing money his whole life, and that apparently his own mother said "I wish he would MAKE some capital instead of just write about it", but he did get some books published. If he made money from those, technically he will not have been a lifelong NEET. Though he was still an absolute failure who lead to the most suffering than possibly any individual in the last 200 years. The ideology he built the foundation of lead to the Communism seen in the Soviet Union, the Socialism of Nazi Germany and modern day Venezuela (GO GUAIDO!), and the mess in modern day North Korea not to mention Maoist China, Minh's Vietnam, and Pot's Cambodia (where they had the huge genoide).

me make schlomo rich, schlomo let me consume products and get excited for next products, other wage friends look at me and clap. me free

>isolation erodes
Don't do it lads, get back to normal life while you still can.

This. Also from a biology standpoint you have to work to prevent heart disease

Hakim Bey
aka Peter Wilson, who lieks the boiseks

Maybe if you weren't a wagie you would have actually had the time to read Nietzsche and realize you're wrong

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b

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Lovers of fate
All together now
Clap your hands
We are
We are
SLAVERY
youtu.be/HpPUUWp5sO4

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The Abolition of Work is the only work NEETs need.

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Seems as though these NEET radicals don't understand the opportunities provided by Capitalism. Yes, when an individual is young and unskilled, all there is available is unskilled and low-wage jobs in terms of employment. It is but the beginning; you adopt responsibility, show up on time, work hard, earn your pay, and in time request a raise. If your employer considers you more valuable than your current salary and would prefer to keep you rather than replace you with a new-hire who would require training to become as efficient (meaning in that time the business's efficiency would be lowered temporarily) then you will achieve that raise or promotion.

Try to save your money, you could experiment with investments as well. You could even peruse job listings to find higher-paying ones or ones that are more in line with your personal interests. For example, I would love to work at a gun store and/or shooting range. I have a passion for firearms, I enjoy teaching people how to shoot (which I've done so in the past) and I have a large breadth of knowledge in regards to firearms and ammunition, I've even made my own ammunition.

Also, and this is quite important to earning a good life in society, search within yourself for your interests and talents. The New Testament says that everyone has a talent, some may have only one early on while others many find many talents within themselves. I believe this to be true, even if it may take time to realize there's something you've pretty much always been good at or at some sort of ability with. It also says that more can be developed in time, which is something that seems fundamentally obvious. Spend 10k hours at something and you'll undoubtedly become proficient in it, I have no idea how many hours I've spent writing, and now I'm making decent money from it. I digress.

Whether it's a talent/ability you were born with, or one you develop in your teens/20s as you grow into a productive member of society, you can find something that you're good at and that you love doing, and find a way to monetize it. You can contribute, and enjoy it, while being rewarded. As the years go by and you become more skilled, more knowledgeable and wise, if you work at it, you can find yourself living in splendor. What is the end result of NEETdom? Hedonism will get you nowhere.

It ain't hedonism. It's simply being free.

But NEETdom doesn't neccessarily mean you waste it with hedonistic activities. 99% do but this is difficult to correlate since most NEETs are broken, have been betrayed by someone, a large group or even themselves.
A productive NEET is basically an entrepreneur of living. Most people cannot be happy without money but when you are able to live within your means and stay productive, it's the chosen life. Arguably more rewarding than being apart of someone else's path at a high rank (i.e. CEO of someone else's business)

>muh bootstraps

shut the FUCK up wagie

Doesn’t that mean that a productive neet can only exist in an environment of worthless neets and wagers as to fill in a niche?

I agree that work is ennobling, but the capitalist form of value (with its concomitant ontology of wage-work, which is really wage-slavery) is historically contingent and morally awful.

We should provide opportunities for work to our people and expect them to work for the greater good. That's all fine. The present form of wage-slavery has nothing to do with that intrinsically though. It's a system rigged against the people. It's of the same logical form as saying, "Sure, the opportunities for choosing your form of employment are limited in our society. But work hard to distinguish yourself as a go-getter, cultivate your inner work ethic, and the master will consider assigning you to indoor duties rather than the fields. You may even end up a manager, some day!" to a slave in 200AD. Sometimes you do have to abolish the form itself.

A Neo-Kantian would probably shun it, depending on the empirical circumstances surrounding it, referring to Aristotelian Principle. The point of Aristotelian Principle is that people prefer more complex activities merely in virtue of them being complex. Albeit never explicity stated, it is immanent in the philosophy of Aristotle, as John Rawls thought.

Avoiding meaningless work might make your life more complex and therefore more valuable, depending on how you use your free time, and in abscence of acccess to well-developed educational systems your life might as well be more interesting outside of educational institutions. However, on average, people who do not work or do not study lead less compelx and interesting lifes than otherwise, allowing themselves to succumb into merely hedonic pleasures. Furthermore, such lifestyle for the most part is sustanable by using others as means to an end, be it your family or your government's welfare system. This means that, from the moral perspective, most NEET lifestyles have no value and claims to tolerance from society.

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I love freedom, and I'm glad that we don't have actual slavery. Indeed there's more opportunity to NOT work today than ever before in the West thanks to easily accessible welfare... which I'm not exactly all that keen on but I myself have had to use it before so I'm glad it's present even though I'm a proud Capitalist. You still CHOOSE to work, you are not FORCED to, and you can even quit essentially whenever you want. That is not slavery. Anyhow that aside, it's on you to develop your own talents, to hone them, and to search yourself for what interests you. I found a story concept I was so interested in a couple days ago that I wrote 7100 words, a full short story, a cunt-hair away from a novelette and indeed it will be developed into such when I get back to it. Must have spent a good 2.5 hours or so in one single day just writing, and I ENJOYED it. Haven't made any money from it yet, but I intend on self-publishing it sometime and I have other ideas for other stories for the same pseudonym. Make money doing what I like, which doesn't at all feel like a job, and I feel lucky to have the opportunity to make money from one of my passions. You can be a part of society, making money, while still being free.

By the pic of that 'NEET pledge', the following is thoroughly hedonistic:

2. I believe labor is not inherently valuable, the only inherently valuable thing is my own enjoyment and fun

That also screams to me of post-modernism, just like the concept of telling someone "you're fine just the way you are", which is bullshit, especially when told to someone young. A young person is not 'fine just the way they are', they are incomplete, they're a hollow shell of potential. Tell them they're fine, and the likelihood they'll try to build something with that potential is lowered. They must make something of themselves. I myself am not yet 30, I've been homeless, been on welfare, on EI, at one point I had over $20,000 in the bank account and right now to my understanding I have $18 in it. Though I also have some money waiting on Fiverr, likely to get more today, a good chunk of money waiting on Paypal, and some on my Payoneer prepaid MasterCard, not to mention... what... $190 in my wallet? Anyhow, I'm still on an upward trajectory, and this trajectory is taking me to an occupation I will enjoy.

Then there is...

4. I believe the term "leech" is akin to calling a slave who has escaped "ungrateful". There is nothing wrong with leaving an unfair system.

Firstly, yes, someone on welfare is a leech. At least with EI they earned some of that by contributing some of their previous income TO Employment Insurance. With welfare, it's money that had been given by the taxpayers that surround that leech and is having some of it funneled to them to keep them off the street and to keep them from starving. Yes, when I was on welfare, I too was a leech, since I was able bodied and able minded.

(not finished)

>my reward for doing stuff is doing even more stuff

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Also, this isn't even to mention usury. The current form of capitalism isn't even just oligarchic, it's internationally oligarchic and systemically favours (and is administered by, surprise surprise) rootless technocratic financier classes, along with their subordinate, local oligarchies. Like I said, it's a rigged game.

The system is designed to fuck you. Wages naturally tend toward bare subsistence level, politics naturally tends to be anti-labour, wages naturally tend to be re-absorbed by capital/employers (by also making themselves, indirectly as a class, the capital/producers of the culture industry that wage-workers spend their wages on after receiving them), oligarchs naturally tend to place more and more yokes on the neck of the average worker (labyrinthine educational hierarchies and bureaucracies that systemically favour nepotism, to choke out any accidental class porosity through meritocracy; not to mention plain old usury, like student loan debts and mortgages).

You aren't just some guy free-floating in a society with perennial values. That's exactly what the Frankfurt faggots critiqued about existentialism and Lebensphilosophie. Any philosophy of individual behaviour or ethics has to take into account the total socio-historical structure which not only grounds the possibility of the prescribes the individual behaviour, but grounds the articulation of the philosophy in the first place.

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I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Productive NEETs often have goals that are un-conventional that they are unlikely to capitalise on, otherwise they would be capitalists and consumer-product-designers. The thing that separates productive NEETs from most consumer-facing-creators is that the latter needs to sell his SOUL in order to make a living, whilst the NEET doesn't have to sell his soul in order to live ('living' defined in the constrained NEET sense of the term as a 'time agreeable existence' rather than the consumerist's 'financially agreeable existence'.)
Worthless NEETs define themselves often (I find at least) by not being able to truly understand what they enjoy, defaulting often to videogames and platforms of entertainment pre-made for them, but perhaps not ideal for them. Their is one guy I know who moved to NZ and became a forester, he practically shunned all urban culture and expectations for his age for a 'time agreeable existence'. Of course being able to make a living "INNAWOODS" was lucky for him, you've just got to focus on what your "forest of plenty" is and then over time find where it's valuable. I'm writing this post because in a strange sense you are all my brothers and I feel indebted to blessing you all with this affirmation (perhaps out of guilt or hope).

“Soul first. Technique later. Or, “Better to drink wine from the hands than water from a pretty cup”; of course the ultimate is wine from a pretty cup.”
- Robbie Basho

To continue about the NEET pledge and #4...

An unemployed person in the West is not someone who has 'escaped slavery', that is utterly foolish. An individual chooses whether or not to work, they choose where they apply to, and they can choose to leave whenever they want. That's not a bloody slave. Next, an 'unfair system'? The West is the greatest civilization in the history of mankind with the greatest technology the world has ever seen and the highest quality of life ever seen. OBESITY IS A GREATER PROBLEM THAN STARVATION! I mean, Jesus Christ, clearly we're doing something RIGHT here! Is it unfair for there to be poor people? NO! There will ALWAYS be a poor, because there will ALWAYS be a hierarchy, and we don't know how to build a stable system based on something other than hierarchy!

Pareto's principle, the Matthew principle, it exists, and yes, it is brutal. Still, in the West, there are safety nets to catch those who are the most vulnerable in society and I am GLAD for that. Some people have mental or physical disabilities that prevent them from reaching their full theoretical potential if they were able-bodied and able-minded. Even other people are not disabled but was sadly born with a very low IQ, perhaps even below 83, which is so low that the US Military will not even allow them to serve because over 100 years of testing IQ has shown that people with an IQ that low cannot be given any task in which they will not be outright counter-productive, and that's something like 10% of the West. That's A LOT of people who are basically incapable of successfully working at anything but the most basic of tasks without fucking it up. So yes, people need HELP... and they are GETTING help. I consider that to be absolutely incredible. People whom historically would have been left to suffer in the streets, can be given a modest place to live, and with Food Banks available if they need them (and indeed I had needed them).

So no, I think that 'pledge' is hedonistic and any NEET who adopts those views are living pathetically hedonistically. In all likelihood they will waste their time, neglect their potential, accomplish NOTHING in life and be bitter all the while because they think it's the system's fault. No, it is THEIR fault for remaining blind to the opportunities given to them by the God-tier system of the West. Our foundation of Christianity, of Capitalism, of the Liberty that provides us individual rights (and with it, individual responsibilities). Now we have in the West, systems to catch those whom are...

broken, have been betrayed, or suffered some other terrible thing in life. Life WILL involve suffering, even Bill Gates and the owner of Amazon (who's name escapes me) suffers. They've lost loved ones, they've been sick, they've been hurt, and I've suffered as well. Everyone suffers, and indeed we sometimes need a hand. Be thankful, as I am, that that hand is present. Don't fall to hedonism. Realize your potential.

Based Bob Black

>This world is a corpse-eater. All the things eaten in it themselves die also. Truth is a life-eater. Therefore no one nourished by truth will die. It was from that place that Jesus came and brought food. To those who so desired, he gave life, that they might not die.

Work obsession disentangles some cryptic Theological ideas like choosing Hell and it being a merciful option by design. Living to work is already a soft immanentizing of the idea that Hell is ironic or sardonic. Men of the world might even rejoice at the proverbial boulders becoming literal ones, at getting to drop the pretense and debase themselves earnestly.

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Goddamn that image

>The system is designed to fuck you.
The issue is that every single invention/new methodology of promise is shut down before it can bloom by the government and the elites due to wanting complete power control.

AI for example, there are new laws which are going to go against prevent accelerationism for the people just because the elites are scared of shit like 'deepfakes'.

Absolutely seething.
But thank you very much for all the free money.

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Everytime I try and integrate and make friends etc. it's only a matter of time before people realise that despite being a happy-go-lucky-guy, I'm a sperg, albeit a friendly one. I'm not looking for pity, I actively read and practice good social etiquette. People just won't be intimate with me.
What's the point of work without camaraderie.
I'm looking for a place where I can fit in and have fun, where is it, is the mystery for me...

>his sense of self-worth is defined by how his peers view him
Shameful. "If we could truly see ourselves the way others see us we'd disappear on the spot" - Cioran

When young, CS Peirce thought slavery wasn't that bad as it allowed his people to comfortably devote themselves to acedemic pursuits while the slaves toiled in the fields and the kitchens for them.

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Philosophy is the greatest scam ever invented by NEETs. It allows them to not work or contribute anything to society but get paid for it and not be recognized as a NEET.

Or generally that any new automation or productivity booster is not used to lower the average person's workload but indeed to increase it. If I give you a tool that allows you to finish your widget in half the time, you need to do twice as much work or you're getting fired.

Based Boomer.

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>society
like i give a fuck lmao.

This, it's 2019 and niggas still talking about 'contributing to society" lmao
Just adding fuel to the fire
And when you ask why they bring up shit like "well if everybody was like you blah blah blah" but they aren't. I don't give a fuck about other people, where is my benefit to contributing to this illustrious "society"? I'm good being a leech, as long as I get to do what I want in my own life, have fun contributing. I'm chill over here reading on a nice sunny day and working on my hobbies

Society is only a concept in your mind.
There are just people out there, pretty random.

I care about many concepts. Just not contribution to society.

I don't see what this society is building or heading towards to make me give a fuck about contributing to it

All I see is every man out for himself, what do I care about my debt to this machine I never asked to build

The communist dream

thoreau lived on emerson(who was rich)'s property and was basically a neet. he had no job. he would often stay in emerson's house and not in the cabin by walden. he only stayed in a cabin by walden for 2 years and then moved back in with his mother until he died

hp lovecraft lived with his mother(until she died), his jewish wife, and then his aunt and then died of cancer. he was pretty much a neet throughout his whole life

diogenes the dog philospher

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>Works sets free
>Arbeit macht frei
Wagies are nazis

"He who does not work, neither shall he eat"
The Marxist philosophers are actually the ones who would be anti-neet

what if my talent is running and fighting, which is useless in the modern world?

>Work frees the soul

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Tough one, I would suggest competitions but that's a joke of a living unless you have a connection with some master manipulator betting man who will certainly fuck you.
I would like your question properly answered however.

its funny how only neets defend neetism

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I'm not even 30; Millennial, but a right-wing one.

Firstly, I say again, new talents can be adopted either from your base of interests or through sheer willpower. As for running and fighting though, keep it up. Work out in fighting-style ways for 10k hours (actual sparring with proper fighters if possible) or spend 10k hours running. You could get into amateur-level boxing or wrestling or MMA. You could try getting into marathon running, they get sponsors to my understanding (the most well-known ones) and are thus paid to run. If nothing else, both will help you to get into the Military with more ease than someone like me who has no actual fighting experience, fighting training, or ability to run great distances.

God I miss being NEET
might hermitise again lads

Wage work is not slavery, people voluntarily enter it and if not for those people, society would crumble. If absolutely nobody worked in unskilled labour, various parts of the economy would collapse. Fast food, janitorial/custodial work (which isn't exactly high-skill or require high IQ), garbage collecting (that's a big one), and there's probably many factory jobs which don't require much training or intelligence. There is nothing immoral about being a vital member of society, and that includes the garbage collectors. A NEET is not a vital member of society, they are a leech, and I don't say that with malice. None the less, they do live off of the sweat of other people's backs, for without the economy, without society, they would be starving to death in the woods along with many others.

There are a growing number of opportunities to work, both in the types of work available (look at all the developing technology) and in America there's record-low unemployment. More people working than ever before, and the lowest people on food stamps in years if not decades. Also, yes, even a burger flipper at McDonald's (which is a job I once had, though ironically there was no flipping involved) are working for the greater good. People can have affordable meals of healthy QUALITY (even if it's not actually good for you) in a convenient amount of time. This may seem trivial to you, but I myself took a coupon down to the nearby Subway to get a couple breakfast sandwiches, some hashbrowns, and a coffee (which I gave to my room mate). $8, and I gave $1.95 tip. She was very friendly, and thus far has been a pleasant part of my day. I'm certain she appreciates the tip too, as well as the chat. She is contributing to the national economy, she's paying taxes, she's doing her part to keep water running, to keep the lights on, to keep the streets safe and to make sure there's people ready to face immediate danger in the case of a fire.

She's 'just working at a fast-food joint', but if that's the only thing that is seen, it's a unidimentional surface-level analysis that seems to me to come from a sour mind whom thinks they should be handed things rather than have to earn them. May as well be nothing more than a disgusting Marxist. I invite someone with that mindset to take a long walk in the woods, perhaps even get themselves lost, and see how they fair after a few hours. Working suddenly doesn't seem so bad; there's food, clean water, safety, warmth, dryness, lights, vast amounts of entertainment, etc. We live like Kings, even the lowest class of the West who live on welfare (I say that as someone who's lived on it). We live like Kings.

What are you doing now?

University. I prefer both work and NEETing to this constant assessment

And how wagies defend wageslavery. Wow, piercing insight

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you realise this guy is a millionaire, right?

Short story
>22 now
>graduated highschool at 17 w/ 4.0 and a year early
>go to decent school for architecture
>drop out in a semester
>go to community college
>join navy after one semester
>quit navy (by way of playing on mental illness) in 4 months
>get wageslave job
>do that for just over a year
>decide to help my parents' new business
>under mom's pressure, enroll in local university
>have done two semesters
I have literally 0.00 in the bank. I have 1000s in credit card debt because I let my mom use my cards when I knew full well she didn't have money to pay them. I feel so empty at college, even though I'm doing "well," considering how disinterested I am. I told my mom I need a break. Even she's talked about killing herself. I'm not doing that, but I'm planning a "hike" across the country. It would be more like more wandering around with some cash and seeing how far I get before I'm arrested or shot but this lifestyle is so far removed from being tolerable I have run out of ideas to make it work.
So, I don't know if being a wandering homeless person is NEET, but that's where I see myself in a month or so

Yes. Which is why the image is an even bigger joke

he doesn't actually mean it

Haha I'm sure

Kill yourself.

I should add that all I want to do I grow my own food, read and write philosophy, political theory, and fiction, and buy guns. These are the three things that I have found the most joy and fulfillment in over my years and varied experience

Boo hoo.
Your parents own a fucking business and seem pretty well off to me. I hate people like you bitching about your situation 'oh woe is me', meanwhile your parents seem pretty fucking loaded, and are helping you get into school. Try being in total default and having ZERO wealth in your family and no help from them whatsoever. Hopefully you get hit by train.

Mind if I ask what you're taking? Also, are you working at the same time? If not, where's the funding coming from? I think the context may prove useful. I personally basically got my grade 12 recently because I didn't finish it in high school and it was covered by EI. I will be starting College in September for journalism, also covered by EI.

NEETs are revolting against the modern world.

>Rowe describes himself as a cheerleader for both blue-collar workers and white-collar workers, hoping to promote individual initiative and positive thinking throughout the U.S. economy. He has stated that he feels alienated from the current U.S. political system given that both business owners and regular workers receive, in his opinion, unfair criticism, with issues such as geographical mismatching and a lack of job training causing unemployment.

The jobs he features on his shows all pay fairly well. Anyone he features makes at least 70k.

Studying a specific stream of biology, funding myself from savings. Better hope my job works out or I’ll have to go on the dole or beg mummy for money

I don't know how you gleamed that my parents are well off. True, they are better now than in past years from their business, but still only brought in $38k net last year for a family of 6.

I pretty much agree with all those except the last one; people aren't created equal in terms of various levels of analysis. IQ, height, strength, social capabilities, work ethic, and so on. Are people created equal in terms of value? In a sense, a very broad sense, yes. I'd like to alter the wording a little before signing that.

Mike Rowe was born in Baltimore in March of 1962 to teachers. He wasn't always a millionaire, he graduated Towson University in 1985 (23 years old) with a degree in 'communication studies'. He hosted the show WJZ-TV from about 1985-2000 (15 years) in Baltimore. I did a little bit of research on that Baltimore-based station and the word 'nation' only comes up 6 times on the page, so I don't think it's a national news agency, I guess only people in Maryland, or maybe some of the surrounding area, could access the channel. I remember in the 90s just up north in Newfoundland we only had about 20 channels, maybe 23 at most. I wonder if people down in New England had more at that time with basic cable. We had an antenna at least for a while.

He had to get up early, shower every day, make sure he was looking good, and even if he were sick he probably still went to work and dealt with it as best he could. 15 years is a long time, 15 years ago I wasn't even in high school yet. He put in his time, it wasn't Fox News or CNN or MSNBC or some other major news network lie that, but he took what he could get and honestly I'm doubtful he made 6-figures a year at it let alone 7-figures. He turned 57 just two months ago, and for some amount of time in the last 10-15 years or so he hosted the show 'Dirty Jobs' in which he experienced many different professions including sewer work. I watched on clip where he was in a protective suit of some sort... and was up to his waist or his arm pits (can't remember which, but it was a lot) in human waste.

He showed people some of the horrible things that some employees go through to keep society functioning, and I'm grateful of his work and of the work that those people do. Also grateful to those who keep the lights on, the internet working, thankful to Bill Gates for doing so much to improve people's quality of life and the technology available in the world, to Steve Jobs as well for the same thing, and now more recently to Jeff Bezos and all he's advanced with his Amazon company. It's thanks to that company that I managed to self-publish various books and make a bit of money off of them.

You should be grateful too.

Biology, eh? The sciences, right on, that'll be useful in a decent amount of professions I imagine. Very admirable that you're funding yourself, I hope you have sufficient savings. A big help is to not have an addiction (I'm an alcoholic myself) and to make meals yourself instead of going to restaurants or fast-food, though it's good to treat yourself from time to time. If you're in America, I'd be hopeful for the future; there's more people working today than ever before in American history, unemployment is the lowest it's been in decades. Good that you have your parents to fall back on, though hopefully you won't have to. Keep at it. You can make something of yourself. You won't do that as a NEET, unless you spend that time pursuing interests and/or talents that can be monetized though ideally able-bodied and able-minded people would work some sort of job while developing that. I recall seeing an ad featuring a McDonald's employee who had musical talents and is in a band. Very cool; he's supporting himself while still pursuing a career that holds meaning and passion for him.

Now that's respectable, very much so, and I hope he's one of the few who have sufficient talent and imagination that he can make it as a musician just as I hope I'm one of the few who have sufficient ability in writing to make it. I'm making three-figures per month consistently for almost a year, so there's clearly something good going on even if it'll take time for me to make it four-figures per month.

>we should be grateful this society is kept alive
Nein danke

how do people have jobs while knowing that most of their income goes into transport to and from work, taxes, and rent? what is the point in working if this is the case? obviously not all of your income goes on it but a sizeable portion of it does and in my eyes it doesn't make it worth going to work for

the only solution seems to be to avoid paying taxes and live in a squat or something, i can't picture work being worthwhile in any other way, why would i want to slave away for 40+ hours a week for the measly amount that's left (per year) after the aforementioned expenditures

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to contribute to society, user!

It's easy to say this but the workers behind the entertaining jobs are nameless. What is the point of contributing to society when football players are more valued than sewage experts?
People are so desperate for 'the good life' that marketers (especially in big cities) have convinced people it's the only "FUN" way to live, all the while raising the consumer price of everything (e.g. London) and making people work harder to earn their alloted "FUN".
(Pro-tip: most young people's money in cities is spent on drugs or alcohol both of which produce no good lasting effect)

*Marx

I should note but forgot that is society's facade to see themselves as noble. I know a cunt who considered herself noble for being a single mother and raising the family she ought to in the first place, whilst she said she was more noble than a man with a job.
People are so up their own asses that they've convinced themselves they can be humble AND better than everyone else.

The real argument being what conclusion does society has that's worthwhile and possible now?
Men used to work so that they could marry and provide, now the state provides single mothers and there is hardly anyone worth the marrying cost.

I was just being facetious, the fuck do I care about contributing to society when we have faggots devoting their lives to advertising carbonated sugar water and making millions off it, maybe if we were building palaces on the moon I could see it, but from where I'm standing you're absolutely right. What do I care about feeding a machine composed of individuals who are all in it for themselves?

I assume you're like 16 or extremely bad with money if most your income goes to transportation and rent.

Then you are free to leave society to live on your own in the wilderness. Have fun.

Or, I could do my best to change/destroy what I see before me. Also, check'd

>you are free to leave society to live on your own in the wilderness
He actually isn't, though.

>leave society
>go live on state land
>get shot
Or
>leave society
>accidentally sleep on private property
>get shot
Such freedom

What is it about the West that you dislike?

Anyone can leave, I could leave if I so chose and even gave consideration once when I was young and foolish and angry.

Excuses, but hey, if life is so terrible and oppressive and it's "just not fair", would that ending be better than having to 'suffer' in 'the greatest civilization in the history of mankind'?

"haha bro if you don't like it so much then you wouldn't even mind getting shot and dying... checkmate!"

Biggest dislike would be ecological destruction and the devaluation of the human. Everyone is a treated like a cog and it makes me sick.

essencial NEET-core

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I agree to an extent with him, but he's exactly the kind of automaton that would start crying the second some decided to take his "just accept it, bro" attitude but applied towards society being forced to change.

I mean, in a variety of ways people in the West have it better than anyone else at any point in time, ever. Seriously. The amount of opportunity, and the fact that EVERYONE has opportunity, there's even disabled people who have written books and gotten famous and not even today! Bloody, what's his face... My Left Foot... Christy Brown. He was born and has died DECADES ago, before I was born and possibly before any of those three individuals I replied to has been born, back in the 80s if I'm not mistaken. Yup, 1981, probably at least a decade before SOMEONE here has been born. He had some severe disabilities and it took YEARS for him to learn to do things with his left foot and even to learn to talk, yet he painted and wrote and ultimately became essentially a household name. There's been a movie made about him with one of the greatest method actors known! But oh no... you're oppressed, and things aren't fair, and people are kept down, and blah blah blah.

I guess Blacks are oppressed too, eh? Meanwhile there's many millionaire Blacks and one even became the most powerful individual on the planet for 8 consecutive years. Women? There's been a female Prime Minister in Canada and Britain (granted there's a pretty shitty one right now) and a woman almost became President in the United States of America! Thankfully she didn't because she was odiously corrupt with a disgusting sense of entitlement and she would have been the ruination of the nation but still she had the opportunity, she tried, and everyone even expected her to win! Then of course there's all those Queens in history, female royalty, and so on.

Enough of the bitching and moaning. You want to be NEET? Go ahead and waste your bloody lives, but don't make excuses. None of this "it's not my fault" nonsense, or "it's the system" or "it's unfair" or any of that. It's weak, and what's worse, it's bloody pathetic. It's cowardly as well and I DO NOT use that term lightly. "Things are too hard, look at how rich some people are, I don't want to get up early, my feet hurt, I'm just going to stay home and leech off of other's hard work..." disgusting. At least have the balls to say "yeah, I'm lazy, I don't want to do shit, and the system allows me to not do shit so I'm just going to stay home and be useless to society. Don't like it? Change the system so that I'm forced to work in order to live!"

I'm a fan of Jack and Coke myself

Thanks user. Do you have any other recommendations?

I hope you're not one of the people who thinks the world is going to be destroyed in 12 years. Is there damage? Yes. Does most of it come from the West? Well, the most polluting nations are not in the West; India and China are the biggest polluters in the world to my understanding. If you don't like pollution, then act as an individual and seek out a profession that would allow you to help the matter.

As for 'devaluation of the human', what do you mean? We have more rights than ever before and we have access to a preposterous amount of advanced technology as well as information. You can practically self-educate yourself online for almost anything. Yeah I know, "Wikipedia is inaccurate" and all that, there's still a ton of info out there.

Also, why do you view people as cogs? Everyone is an individual. When I spoke to that woman at Subway this morning when I ordered my breakfast, I didn't just look at her as a uniform. We had a nice little chat, why would I bother with that if she was just some cog? I think you need to change your thinking; instead of viewing things as a collective, realize that every individual is just that; an individual. Some are good, some are bad, some have aspirations while others don't. Everyone has a story however, and everyone has experienced pain or difficulty of some sort.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making aome kike rich from your labor. I applaud managerial skill.
And observe how the NEETs who think in memes post seeth and cope buzzwords ad nauseum at this post. Who is really coping and seething I wonder?

When bait becomes reddit autism.

>12 years
Not quite. All predictions are flawed, and yes, Asian countries are a huge, if not the biggest problem. However, the best course of action is attacking and destroying industry, not attempting to alter human nature
>what do you mean
More rights just means more writing on paper.
>cogs
I do not view them as cogs. They are treated as cogs. That subway worker of yours, I feel bad for her. I have full confidence she could be more than she is now. She is forced to accept degrading work.

>Throughout the novel he rarely leaves his room or bed. In the first 50 pages, he manages only to move from his bed to a chair.
oh boy

Thx, just bought it.

>“Those who commend work. - In the glorification of 'work', in the unwearied talk of the 'blessing of work', I see the same covert idea as in the praise of useful impersonal actions: that of fear of everything individual. Fundamentally, one now feels at the sight of work - one always means by work that hard industriousness from early till late - that such work is the best policeman, that it keeps everyone in bounds and can mightily hinder the development of reason, covetousness, desire for independence. For it uses up an extraordinary amount of nervous energy, which is thus denied to reflection, brooding, dreaming, worrying, loving, hating; it sets a small goal always in sight and guarantees easy and regular satisfactions. Thus a society in which there is continual hard work will have more security: and security is now worshipped as the supreme divinity. - And now! Horror! Precisely the 'worker' has become dangerous! The place is swarming with 'dangerous individuals'! And behind them the danger of dangers - the individual!”

>Who is really coping?
Anyone who is unhappy with their situation. This could apply to either camp, even if everyone is choosing the path that maximizes their happiness, because people start with different possibilities and derive enjoyment from different things.

>Who is really seething?
Wagecucks.

It's as if you take for granted that this "treated as cogs" line of yours is bad self evidently. Yes it is a metaphysical fact that in the act of working in a larger machine to further ones excellence of living. one is a cog. But is a cog not to be kept in pristine condition and treated as well as any mainspring? What exactly is so damning or inferior about this in any way whatsoever? The fact that it works?

Link to this in english?

If you want to keep the same form your whole life while being directed by other pieces to do a repetitive, mindless task then there's nothing wrong with it. That isn't even me denigrating it, that's just the truth about the life of a cog. But it's obvious why that wouldn't be appealing to some.

Really? When in the degeneration of their capacties that necessarily come from failing to exercise their faculties, we observe what mind numbing stagnation the NEET falls into. Even affecting the pursuit and performance of his non-work-related interests?
The virtue of productiveness is the recognition of the fact that productive work is the process by which man’s mind sustains his life, the process that sets man free of the necessity to adjust himself to his background, as all animals do, and gives him the power to adjust his background to himself. Productive work is the road of man’s unlimited achievement and calls upon the highest attributes of his character: his creative ability, his ambitiousness, his self-assertiveness, his refusal to bear uncontested disasters, his dedication to the goal of reshaping the earth in the image of his values. “Productive work” does not mean the unfocused performance of the motions of some job. It means the consciously chosen pursuit of a productive career, in any line of rational endeavor, great or modest, on any level of ability. It is not the degree of a man’s ability nor the scale of his work that is ethically relevant here, but the fullest and most purposeful use of his mind.
Of course the NEET's answer to any of this: I fear to think about it and will not consider it.

All work is creative work if done by a thinking mind, and it was never implied that one has to remain a cog in perpetuity and cannot elevate himself instead to a mainspring, logic board or better.

>every person living in this way i don't like becomes braindead and there is no alternative way to stop this but doing what i want them to do and am required to do myself
cope

>i'm going to keep repeating nonsensical phrases like "work sets me free" and "mind sustains his life" embedded in flowery prose
If you were saying anything meaningful you could directly make a point instead of trying to hide the fact that you have no coherent arguments and are just expressing your feelings. I'm getting the impression you're either incapable of or fear to consider this topic from a logical standpoint with clearly expressed claims.

>it's not written anywhere that a widget production line worker is never going to become someone getting paid for their thoughts
ok but they won't be.

>All work is creative work if done by a thinking mind
Define "creative work". Are you the same faggot as above?

To destroy industry is to destroy the economy, to destroy the economy is to have us descend from our high quality of living. You want people to suffer?

Just means more writing on paper? Do you NOT want freedom of expression (which is degrading because of leftism)? Do you NOT want a selection of jobs to choose from (which the Paris accord is seeking to accomplish and God bless Trump for rejecting it)? How about firearms? Nope, the leftists are trying to take those away too so you can't defend yourself or your family or your lawfully owned possessions. It's hard to understand why you'd suggests that human rights are merely writings on paper, it's as though you WANT slavery to return.

I agree that she could be more than she is now. Another thing is; she's young, probably younger than I am and I'm not yet 30. But hey, people need to start somewhere and it's possible that she's not even from the West. She may have come from some sort of shithole in undeveloped Asia where her best chance for money may have been prostitution. Now she's in the West, making more money than she may have been able to even dream of, saving her money, making plans, researching options, and setting herself up for something better. Or who knows, maybe as it turns out she ENJOYS working at Subway (unlikely, I know), and she wants to prove herself, earn raises and promotions, eventually perhaps even buying that restaurant from her boss once he retires or even opening other establishments elsewhere. Do you think she's incapable of advancing her position? I believe she is, and so she's doing what she must in her early stages in life, sacrificing, to improve the future. That's what the West IS; short-term sacrifice for long-term gains. If she's low-IQ and low-skilled and cannot obtain better (unlikely) then she STILL is doing better at Subway than if she were to go to wherever her heritage lies.

Will you not be content until all are rich and doing only what they love right from birth? Life will contain suffering, and it will contain sacrifice if they wish to succeed. Yes, even for the wealthy, for a lazy wealthy person will lose their wealth. To my understanding, wealthy families tend to lose their wealth within 3 generations because it's eventually left to someone who is useless and then it's gone. Look at people who win the lottery; they generally end up broke again but even worse-off because if they had any tendency towards addictive substances (like me with my booze) then they end up horribly addicted. OR, they let the wealth go to their head, they become complete pricks (or rather they release their inner prick because they no longer need to try to leech off of or manipulate others) and so when they're broke again, they no longer have those connections that helped them.

Fascinating excerpt, I'd like to know from which of Nietzche's books it is from. The danger of dangers; the individual. The left would view it as such, but if you want a source of complacency and the desire to work in security, look to families. One of the reasons, I think, that young men are so desired for Military service is not just the fact they're "young and indestructible" as Terrence Popp would say (US Army Veteran, served in 3 wars and injured in 2), but that they generally don't have families yet. They don't have children, a wife. Such things would give fear to death, while without them, to some degree there is less fear. Another reason why so much crime comes from men from their late teens to their mid-late 20s. If they're not married and with kids, what is there keeping them from acting up, from trying to knock over the table on which the game is being played?

If that's a piece of Nietzche's work, he truly does put a lot in just a little. I'd have to read that over several times I think to fully understand it. Fascinating.

>every person living in this way i don't like becomes braindead and there is no alternative way to stop this but doing what i want them to do and am required to do myself
They become braindead to differing degrees yes.
Your sort lives in constant fear that the gravy train will one day end and will be unable to function on your own power. Spare me the hippie fantastizing, stagnation is not something you can rationalize yourself out.
Cope. see what faggots were turn into when we insist on thinking and speaking in maymays and buzzwords
>If you were saying anything meaningful you could directly make a point instead of trying to hide the fact that you have no coherent arguments and are just expressing your feelings. I'm getting the impression you're either incapable of or fear to consider this topic from a logical standpoint with clearly expressed claims.
Well I did just that, but not liking it you employed the classic NEET evasion on not deigning to consider it. The same approach you take to the ones you parasitize. It's your default position. the small box you keep your minds in allows few others.
>ok but they wont be
Not with that attitude they wont. This perma-lockdown of class drivel is a soccie myth. Sure there are those who will always stagnate, but they are another side to the NEET's fundamental philosophic approach. If this was the central thrust of your wagecuck meme I'd even be on your side. But NEETposters never stress this contextual qualifier. It's all denigrating productivness as such. While curiously also denigrating the drivers of bussiness with the bemoaning of the 1% on the PC side and bemoaning "schlomo" and echoesposting on the politically incorrect side. All of you: faggots.

NEETs are always short range. You are actually hated by capitalists and socialists on both sides. Us capitalists are fine forgetting about you and letting you starve to death. While the socialists constantly want to make inroads into your privacy for the crime of social uselessness and selfishness. I appreciate you faggots in one respect only: you force soccies to come to terms with the unworkability of their systems.

>I can't explain what ideas my writing was supposed to be expressing when directly questioned about it.
>You're the braindead one though.
Don't dodge the question. If you're going to pretend you were expressing meaningful ideas then explain what meaningful ideas your previous posts were expressing. Then stop writing like an evasive faggot trying to hide behind language.

In particular I am interested in what "creative work" is and how every human with a job and a brain can be said to be doing it.

>in constant fear that the gravy train will one day
That seems unlikely. Normalfags are unwilling to do anything unpleasant unless someone is literally threatening to kill them and letting people starve would be unpleasant.

That's on top of social unrest. Even from a purely practical standpoint it might be better for you to keep paying off the people that aren't already paid off by the satisfaction of being a "contributing member of society".

>you're all actually unhappy and braindead
If you could prove this and that a causal relationship which points in the direction you're claiming exists maybe your repeated assertions would look less like coping.

>I did just that
No you didn't. You either write flowery nonsense or make unsubstantiated claims because you are incapable of substantiating your claims.
>you employed the classic NEET evasion
I am writing simple sentences that mean things and can reasoned with using inference rules. Pointing out that you are not and that if you actually had an argument you could is not evasion.

I didn't respond to the last paragraph so I guess I will before I go to do something else.

Being a functional cog does nothing to help capacity for creative thought and probably hurts it. Coghood is therefore not a step in becoming someone capable of higher functions, at most it is demonstrating that the cog is a team player. If a cog wants to develop into a different piece they'll need to do it in their own NEET-like personal time.

You make claims that NEEThood destroys your mind to a greater extent than coghood but that seems untrue to me both when considering the activities the two are doing and how I'd respond to them, and also empirically. I think more NEETs have become significant thinkers/writers/artists than cogs have. And there are many more cogs.

People denigrate the ratio of work to benefit cogs receive and the substancelessness of the work they do while claiming it has meaning. I don't think most people are denigrating productivity in itself, like someone running a startup in some area that interests them. They just know this is almost never the case.

Beyond that you might just be taking shitposting and rusing too seriously. There's no universal NEET philosophy being advanced which condemns productivity.

How would OP seize the means of production if he's not involved in the productional process?

Don't go anywhere cat. I got something for you.

You, my friend, are cucked

Not everything is about production you Marxist relic

Daybreak/Dawn, §173

It's in Initiation and Spiritual Realization

step 1. Acquire some money (varying in amount in correlation with ambitions)
step 2. purchase a mean of production
step 3. become NEET
step 4. produce from the mode of an individual

À rebours
Voyage Around My Room

work kills, work is alienating, work is unpleasant
people should stop glorify work, both left and right

Attached: 1555490713724.jpg (480x488, 142K)

>asks for substantiation while never having done it himself
If you want to elevate the level of discourse we are engaging in thats fine. But do not make it sound like you were performing any better.
>I am writing simple sentences that mean things and can reasoned with using inference rules.
Pointing out that you are not and that if you actually had an argument you could is not evasion.
As have I. As of yet all both of us have ever done so far is drop assertions, relying on the other to reason out the general thrust of our approach. Don't act like you were doing any better. But with that said. it's perfectly valid of you to note that our current level of debate is inferior and not explictly referential.

So let's begin:
Creative work is the application of man's engaged and explictly identified use of his conceptual faculty, when applied to the requirements for the furtherance and development of his life. And as it redounds to and integrates with his self interest and larger goal wide range happiness Even on the level of meager ability, it is always open to a man (though he may choose to evade) to keep in mind the full context of the metaphysical status of his work in relation to his integration with the mechanism which makes survival and the pursuit of happiness possible writ large. Observe what reality demands of this application of the faculty, in order to achieve wider and wider degrees of fulfillment, creativity must be excercised not only in performance of a task - to render it's performance easier, more effective, better incorporated with the larger machine, to not fail it - but also to introsepct and relate one's character to the sphere and potential development of his role. I have always been convinced, for instance, that game developers are many orders of magnitude happier than any person who plays his game.
If the "wagecuck" meme were simply a means of critiquing the stagnant and stress the need for their improvement, I'd be fine with it. But it is explicitly meant as state worship and never used for the former.
>Being a functional cog does nothing to help capacity for creative thought and probably hurts it.
An assertion. rather hypocritically of you. What the neet can do is read and research, to the extent he dejins to, means of furthering his creative faculty. But the cog in addition to this (with admittedly 40-50 hours less time per week to do so) has a whole host of refferential means of accuring experience not other of the career furthering kind, but of the cognitive endeavor kind.
>I think more NEETs have become significant thinkers/writers/artists than cogs have
Yeah and more NEETs fall into homelessness than cogs do. Useless point.
>Beyond that you might just be taking shitposting and rusing too seriously. There's no universal NEET philosophy being advanced which condemns productivity.
Oh there is. this way of thought has it's philosophic roots like anything else. Most irrationalist and/or nihilistic.

Your comment gains merit after the invention of a utopian technology, not before.

p2
In order to be in control of your life, you have to have a purpose, a productive purpose. A central purpose serves to integrate all the other concerns of a man’s life. It establishes the hierarchy, the relative importance, of his values, it saves him from pointless inner conflicts, it permits him to enjoy life on a wide scale and to carry that enjoyment into any area open to his mind; whereas a man without a purpose is lost in chaos. He does not know what his values are. He does not know how to judge. He cannot tell what is or is not important to him, and, therefore, he drifts helplessly at the mercy of any chance stimulus or any whim of the moment. He can enjoy nothing. He spends his life searching for some value which he will never find.
“Productive work” does not mean the blind performance of the motions of some job. It means the conscious, rational pursuit of a productive career. In popular usage, the term “career” is applied only to the more ambitious types of work; but, in fact, it applies to all work: it denotes a man’s attitude toward his work.

The difference between a career-man and a job-holder is as follows: a career-man regards his work as constant progress, as a constant upward motion from one achievement to another, higher one, driven by the constant expansion of his mind, his knowledge, his ability, his creative ingenuity, never stopping to stagnate on any level. A job-holder regards his work as a punishment imposed on him by the incomprehensible malevolence of reality or of society, which, somehow, does not let him exist without effort; so his policy is to go through the least amount of motions demanded of him by somebody and to stay put in any job or drift off to another, wherever chance, circumstances or relatives might happen to push him.
In this sense, a man of limited ability who rises by his own purposeful effort from unskilled laborer to shop-foreman, is a career-man in the proper, ethical meaning of the word, while an intelligent man who stagnates in the role of a company president, using one-tenth of his potential ability, is a mere job-holder. And so is a parasite posturing in a job too big for his ability. It is not the degree of a man’s ability that is ethically relevant in this issue, but the full, purposeful use of his ability.

You, my enemy, think in memes.

>not other of the career furthering
*not only

>only get it through working aka being a ''wagecuck''
Absolutely false, and you know it(I'm not talking about crime here).

>all this strife
Some have an aristocratic nature, some have a peasant nature
No shame in either

>But do not make it sound like you were performing any better.
I was the one communicating in a way that allows meaningful exchange of ideas. I stand by my assertion that initially you were not actually saying anything. I was initially just pointing this out but we can have an actual conversation if you want.

Furthermore when I actually started saying things about the topic I did in fact perform better than you. Of course I made an assumption, all arguments start with axioms. The difference is I started with more general assumptions that can be argued for beyond "You're all unhappy and braindead" "Nuh uh you are". The specific assumption you cite is based in the assumptions that jobs which engage no thought exist (which I regarded as self evident but that can be further argued. see below) and that performing tasks does not contribute to qualities not used in the process of performing them (which I regard as self evident).

>applying conceptual faculty to make decisions on how not to die
NEETs also do this. You think one is more noble but there's no argument that nobility will have the positive tangible results you assert.
>you can think abstractly how to improve how you do your job
This is not always welcome and there will not always be room for improvement. Robotic factories are optimized beyond anything a cog can or could be reasonably be expected to come up with.
>you can think about your role
And how is this supposed to be constructive ? It also can't continue after you arrive at your conclusion. Furthermore NEETs can also introspect and probably do more than wagies.
>you can think about your process
Robots do and will do many jobs better than workers. Any "abstract thought" required is just attaching meaning to basic functions because consciousness is attached to them. And again, any abstract thought about process can done about any activity, not just repetitive ones that you have to do 50 hours a week.

Even if you do happen to be in a situation that allows for thought the requisite split in concentration is going to reduce your ability to think anything interesting.

>Yeah and more NEETs fall into homelessness than cogs do. Useless point.
The argument was which state was better for the mind, not which state was better for not being homeless. You are deflecting by conflating different things just because you positively connote both.

>nihilism is irrational
No it isn't. It's just not constructive.

Slave morality

Isn't tipping bigger here in america? My mechanic has a fucking tip jar.

>you have to have a purpose
questionable both in meaningfulness and then in truth
>a productive purpose
further questionability. you can only be productive towards something, it doesn't mean anything generally. and you can be productive towards things that don't involve money or other people's benefit

>flipping burgers will do all these things if and only if you're getting ordered around by someone else in exchange for money
>the same is true of any other activity (unless you're getting enough money to sustain yourself from it because entrepreneurs count as having a job i guess)
why? this is getting flowery again and seems suspiciously like you sharing your feelings instead of saying something objective about the external world.

there's a genetic and to a lesser extent environmental cap on what any person can achieve. once they reach this cap they must stagnate, and there's no reason to think sufficiently stupid/disabled/whatever people aren't stagnating at some mindless level

>ethics
not going to argue about those unless you demonstrate an is-ought link with something tangible. such a link may even exist in the psychology of some people but i don't think it's universal

i have never felt any of these things wagies assert you will from receiving money for a task, or contributing to a larger project. it's possible this is something average neurotypical humans generally feel (not sure about this either. seems like social pressure to me) but there are definitely people who don't.

based

>"parasites on the state"
>Implying this isn't the whole point

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>You're free to leave
>But if you leave you'll be arrested for no paying your property taxes, or your money taxes, or your life taxes, or your life insurance, or your social security insurance, or your car insurance (even though you don't have a car)
>Society encroaches further and further into nature everyday and has made much of the planet inhabitable, or your tuition fees, or your second mortgage
Nice job

An even bigger problem is that humans can't really live alone in the wilderness, they need tribes, first to teach them from child how to survive, and then for various cooperative ventures, and of course just psychological health.

You would have to find an existing tribe and get them to adopt you.

You're thinking about this all wrong. Don't compare neets to janitors as two giant groups. Compare an individual janitor to an individual neet. They're really almost as worthless as one another.

Sure the janitor wins out, but not by much. If the janitor quits his job, that position will almost immediately be replaced. And this goes for most people in most professions.

Let's not pretend that our jobs are our biggest economic contribution to the world. Your biggest contribution will always come in how you choose to spend your money, not in what the particular source of your income is. So even a neet has economic value, because they still ultimately participate in the economy by how and where they spend their money.

And most neets are supported voluntarily by a spouse or family who they are codependent upon. Stop pretending that most neets are living permanently off of the government. Deep down you know it is mostly parents and husbands supporting the modern neet epidemic.

getting arrested and/or shot seems like a bigger problem desu.

i'd guess there have been adults that decided to drop out of a more advanced society and solo the woods. they have methods of learning how to do so coming from those other societies besides being raised into it

There was a family of Russians living in the middle of Siberia for decades, I think they ran away from one of the Soviet purges or something. They just lived in a little cabin they built until they were discovered in the 70s, here is an article about them.

smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-russian-family-was-cut-off-from-all-human-contact-unaware-of-world-war-ii-7354256/

"lathe bi-ice cold coca cola"
-epicurus

Attached: epicurus statue.jpg (977x1200, 87K)

>"You're all unhappy and braindead"
THAT my friend is exaggeration on my point that you made. LESS potential happiness and LESS exercise of the mind and one's faculties is possible to a NEET, that's all I was saying. Just as a man who does not actually employ the advanced muscle training he reads about does not develop his physique, and more broadly experiences no cause to feel efficacious with it.
>performing tasks does not contribute to qualities not used in the process of performing them
They can if you abstract out of them and ponder the enviroment, and larger context in which you work. Piss easy jobs can, for the time they are worked, still be dealt with creatively. Notice a few inefficient qualities in the machines? How Jim and Kyle have fallen into a safe but slow routine? Theres a step too many on the assembly line process? You have mind to catalog all of this in writing and present it to the boss, even a speech included so these changes sound less obtuse when mentioned in meeting?
This can be for something as fucking simple as how a floor lead tells a squad tk sweep the factory floor. The first job I ever worked the only potential snag was overcoming people's tendency to not like obtuse micromanagement among their subordinates.
You go home after all of this with a rough feeling of cleverness and accomplisment. Which you can then go on to abstractly associate with any extra creative endeavors you engage in. Imagine how much deeper you could take it.
A countervailing self-evidency. Which supplants the other I wonder?
>This is not always welcome and there will not always be room for improvement. Robotic factories are optimized beyond anything a cog can or could be reasonably be expected to come up with
Which are therefore irrelevant. Such a thing being true stops you at the gate, but "optimized" factories are almost always not so optimized in actual opperation. No point in mentioning robotics and wage slavery in the same breath here, in this context.
>Furthermore NEETs can also introspect
>probably more than wagie
Probably you say? Even the perma homeless? Unfortunately for you you DO have to statistically count them among your number. Same approach you see. And contemplate their numbers for a moment.
>intospect
They can, but due to the nature of bookish NEETdom; introspection in perpetuity with seldom opportunity to apply and less to introspect about. Less instances demanding their faculties.
>The argument was which state was better for the mind, not which state was better for not being homeless
Bruh. And. What. Do. You. think homelessness does to the mind as, again, you are forced to count them among your number considering philosophic assessment?
>Robots do and will do many jobs better than workers
Relevant for something I'm sure you have in mind, but not here. This is merely another factor of employment a prospective employee will need to remain cognizant of.

>have never felt any of these things wagies assert you will from receiving money for a task, or contributing to a larger project. it's possible this is something average neurotypical humans generally feel
It's also possible you in particular have degenerated to some (admittedly probably small) extent.
>sufficiently stupid/disabled/whatever people aren't stagnating at some mindless level
Yeah you go and call those people wagecucks and see what exactly that accomplishes cat. The whole point of the calling someone a cuck meme is in the pointing out that they defaulting in pursuit of some superior option. It's the warranted charity to those kinds of people that NEET-lifestyle louts are parasitizing. NEETdom has 3 deadly failure states (4 if we count stagnation boring them into suicide)
1. Disaster, economic or otherwise which they cannot weather
2. The capitalist side gaining significant ground. We just wont think of you, and are fine watching you starve to death upon refusal to get your act together
3. The socialist side gaining significant ground. Who, removed of the need to pay lip service to rights individual or otherwise, can exercise with impunity their sundry social-engineering tyrannies. And will punish your sort for (what they will call) selfishness, forcing them to face the results of their unworkable systems, and social uselessness.

Being "NEET", within the current degenerate worldorder, is the most optimal socioeconomical condition for personal freedom of Life and Artistry - it optimally facilitates important preparation before the final battle. For the aspired person, few things in this world are more spiritually exhausting, and infuriatingly frustrating, than choosing, everyday, as the most lamentable means to a suboptimal end, to compromise and to subordinate his/her Soul to the convulsive struggle of "wageslavery", and bearing the personal disgrace that this entails.

Why do you think a repetitive, mindless task provides more opportunities for pondering than any other task, or no task at all? You presumably just want people to do those tasks and are rationalizing why it isn't mindkilling. You don't have a good reason those tasks are better soil for stimulation than anything else. You haven't even explained how the fact you're doing them for money could possibly have any relevance.

I do math, play go, read, and argue on japanese shitposting websites with time most other people are working. I'm confident all of those provide more stimulation and provoke more thought than any optimization of floor sweeping that has ever occured. I also believe random stereotypical neets get more mental stimulation out of their anime than random stereotypical wagies get out of broom pushing.

>Even the perma homeless?
Yes. I think the average homeless spends more time thinking about abstract topics than the average hourly pay employee. Not that this direct comparison is particularly important because we're talking averages. Many neets will not introspect. I'm not even confident saying most because one of the reasons people become neet is their navelgazing. Virtually no wagies will introspect (to be clear i'm not calling academics or other people who are largely paid to have original ideas wagies) and the low skill ones sure as fuck won't do it while plunging a toilet.

This whole time you've been comparing a stereotype of a neet to a philosopher who is pondering the metaphysics of his broom pushing. That philosopher does not exist, let alone being common enough to affect statistics at all.

Incidentally expanding neets to include homeless doesn't really matter to me. I think you're likely still wrong about the averages but either way mostly I just care about whether a random stereotypical neet would improve their life becoming a wagie, and strongly believe the answer is no.

>see what exactly that accomplishes
I don't care if it accomplished anything. I just want to post arguments I think are correct, make comments I think are funny, and call people retarded when I think they're arguing with connotation instead of meaning.

>shit may ruin your life
Shit may ruin all our lives. I apparently don't think that's enough of a factor to make wagie life preferable.

>shut up you leech!

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by your logic, Hitler and Jared Fogle are better than you

This is retarded. Rent is a huge amount of money for anyone living on minimum wage or around that. And it keeps going up while wages stagnate. I know not everyone lives on minimum wage but shouldnt you be able to?

>Hated by capitalists and socialists
Perfect then
Neet ubermensch

Bad things.

>the overlords of the system you reject and want nothing to do with hate you, ever think of that?

cretin

Being a NEET is the pinnacle of existence.

>Incidentally expanding neets to include homeless doesn't really matter to me. I think you're likely still wrong about the averages but either way mostly I just care about whether a random stereotypical neet would improve their life becoming a wagie, and strongly believe the answer is no.
It mattered to you the moment you decided to reference what qualities you think NEETs and wage earners STATISTICALLY exhibit.
Nice try, you don't get to back out now that your own means of argumentative assessment are used against you.
>Yes. I think the average homeless spends more time thinking about abstract topics than the average hourly pay employee.
Source: your ass. Situations that force the utilization of your faculties with always induce, stastically, more people to not drift in uncritical stupor than ones that don't. Have you SEEN places like Denver? Faggots from california come here, for the weed, with no plan and get themselves stranded and make a collosal nuisance of themselves and shit in alleyways. Oh please tell me about this contemplative homeless man you insist outnumber on average, people who do something as widespread and necessary as productive work. I do not see happy faces when I look at these legions of halfwits.

i hate being a NEET. I hate having all the time in the day to study languages, write music, practice the guitar, read, exercise and cook. i wish i could spend the day in a stuffy cubicle doing spreadsheets for shlomo instead. i hate my life!

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>want nothing to do with
>as you consume their tax dollars
Yeah get bent

lol trillions spent in the middle east for nothing and you want to get the pitchforks out for unmotivated weebs. kill yourself nigger

>Why do you think a repetitive, mindless task provides more opportunities for pondering than any other task, or no task at all?
Didnt a philosopher say this was the case? I forget who.

Not long range. Perpetual minimum wage coasters should experience the proportional amount of discomfort that choice objectively buys. Unrepentant NEETs should be audited and if still stuborn, risk starving to death

>People from California come to Colorado for weed
Imagine being this much of a boomer lmao
Absolutely clueless

drain ceo will work in a cafe before he goes full neet, user

Assuming things about me kiddo. I have sharp knife in the back planned for the false paragons of capitalism that made that crapshoot possible. Mixed economy statism will breed such irrationalism in perpetuity until Laissez-faire is acheived. An aggressively brandished pitchfork is the minimum parasitical louts deserve.

Thinking in memes again I see.

Most modern philosophers were NEETs who lived of their inheritance or had a cushy tenured professorship, and those that argued against the NEET life or argued for the virtue of hard work did not live the ethical life they proposed.

Peak ressentiment like mommy taught you

lmao why the absolute fuck are you taking a literal meme image seriously and writing a fucking essay refuting it dude, grow up.

Also Coloradan here, what the fuck is boomer about that observation? It's a known fact, what else do you think caused our explosion in homeless population?

>I-it's a meme so it doesn't contain any philosophic root to it
>nothing to see here, w-what the fuck are you doing seriously assessing it?
not him btw

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hi Frank Yang

>live off interests of a low tier investment
>hoping on and off work like it's nothing
>%75 of living expenses cleared

Is this a troll or are you just really young and know nothing about life?

If we're trying to consider empirical evidence about the relation between neetdom/wagiedom and creative thought all we have is "statistics". We don't actually have number but we can consider things like the estimated ratio of significant neet vs wagie thinkers.

The main thing I care about in this conversation is whether a wagie lifestyle is better for the mind than a neet lifestyle in the typical sense of the words. We can get pedantic and point out homeless and housewives are not employed, being educated, or being trained but that's not what we were initially talking about and not a question I care about.

I started arguing with you because I think your statistical claims are wrong but then I thought about the conversation in perspective and realized homeless people aren't actually relevant to the topic I care about. Your alleged backpedaling is me noticing *while writing the post* that those particular statistics aren't relevant and I was only arguing them because I think you're wrong in ways unrelated to the real topic.

>Oh please tell me about this contemplative homeless man you insist outnumber on average, people who do something as widespread and necessary as productive work
The claim isn't outnumbering. It's about ratios. And I think there are probably a small but non-negligible number of homeless who take the time doing nothing and use it to think. (Maybe I'm wrong about that.) I think a far smaller fraction of wagies will spend their spare neurons philosophizing about sweeping as opposed to gossiping with coworkers. (I'm extremely confident I'm not wrong about that.) And I suspect the type of normalfag that chooses wagiedom over neetdom is probably also going to spend their free time socializing and/or consuming entertainment instead of doing any philosophizing.

>all wagies are tv drone normies
>all neets arent tv drones
I guarantee you that most neets in america are either drug addicts or obese and spend all their time watching tv. Prove me wrong I beg you.

>all wagies are tv drone normies
probably more socializing than consuming entertainment. the entertainment they consume like GoT is largely done for social reasons but i mentioned it because maybe they don't do it while socializing

>all neets arent tv drones
not claiming that. i do think neets might spend a smaller fraction of their time actively consuming entertainment than normalfags do socializing, and they have more time to begin with. some of that excess is probably spent navelgazing if not philosophizing
>most neets are drug addicts or obese and spend all their time watching tv
Some spend their time watching anime.

>spend all their time watching tv

Only boomers still watch tv

Have you not considered there is also such a thing (and at the same ratio) as normalfag neets as normalfag wage earners? I observe plenty of homeless engage in equally banal gossip and pursuit of consumerist distractions when they congregate in large numbers as they are want to do. I imagine the actual ratio is only marginally better for NEETs by merit of their vastly smaller sample size, which grows far larger when you include the homeless as you know you should and have no warrant (in this context) to omit.
>and realized homeless people aren't actually relevant to the topic I care about
If the topic you care about is advocacy of NEETdom, and it is, then common homeless are a simple variety you must know must be subsumed under the concept. Sure you may try to isolate ONLY into bookish NEETdom (which I do not buy this mary-sue esque no-dissadvantage picture you paint of it besides) that option is barred to once you try assess statistically the countervailing approach to minimalist lifestyle. Wagiedom and NEETdom both occupying it. You are forced to consider it and acknowledge it if you also deign to not engage in willful contradictions.
>The main thing I care about in this conversation is whether a wagie lifestyle is better for the mind than a neet lifestyle in the typical sense of the words.
And I sit here waiting for you to address my arguments on that very topic.

>Life
Lol as if your lifestyle holds this objective title to be thrown around as the "hard truth buddy" your types are always the most annoying in it's brash arrogance. 2 years of salary in a western country is more money than half the world makes in their lifetime. Sustainment is simple if your needs are low. But please enlighten me oh wise one in what my young inexperienced mind is missing

Discipline and development of your faculites most likely. And not him.

>you care about is advocacy of NEETdom
No I don't. I care about what is true about neetdom. Which is part of me caring about what is true in general. Not everything is about influencing others.

>you should and have no warrant (in this context) to omit.
My warrant is caring about a different idea than your definition of "NEET" with regards to this question. If you want to declare victory by using words differently than their normal usage and arguing about a different question than I am that's your prerogative. And if you were actually being consistent in your pedantry you would admit you need to include housewives which significantly outnumber homeless.

I disagree with the premise that sitting around with free time while not worrying about starvation or shelter is worse for your mind than performing repetitive mindless tasks. This is the main thing I care about.

I'm not going to make strong claims about the homeless in that context partially because I know less about them and partially because there are factors other than psychological ones rotting their brains. I still think it's probably they philosophize more than wagies during wage hours. It's even plausible they philosophize more overall but admittedly that one's questionable.

>And I sit here waiting for you to address my arguments on that very topic.
What unaddressed arguments were there? All I can think of are the flowery ones that didn't justify the causal links you were claiming with any direct, simple argument.

have sex

>your definition of NEET
MY definition? THE definition is No: Education. Employment. Training.
You choosing to concern yourself with some specific sphere and style of it is simply you adding qualifiers to the base concept. No differences in fundamental definition are present. We know exactly what the other has meant this entire time.
>I'm not going to make strong claims about the homeless in that context partially because I know less about them and partially because there are factors other than psychological ones rotting their brains. I still think it's probably they philosophize more than wagies during wage hours. It's even plausible they philosophize more overall but admittedly that one's questionable.
Respectable enough of you to admit, enough so that I will even believe you saying implicit or explicit advocacy of NEETdom is not your goal. Explicit advocacy that wage-earning not be denigrated as-such IS however my goal, take that as you will.
We have essentially been arguing at root which of our means of assessing the phenomena at play in this issue are superior. My thrust being that advocacy of NEETdom and denigration of the virtue of productiveness is a part of a larger corrupt approach to philosophy. Which I intend to mock into the dirt.
Though I concede you clearly do not subscribe in full to those notions as I assumed.
>What unaddressed arguments were there? All I can think of are the flowery ones that didn't justify the causal links you were claiming with any direct, simple argument.
The ones in concerning the development and exercise of one's faculties. mostly. I think these points difficult for you to argue against. But all ears. You deigned to instead broadly assess the genral thrust of those pair of posts.

S925 i can't work a 9 to 5

This post was typed during lunch break

The guy you're replying to is a bugman. If he can't get the newest car his friends won't like him.

>MY definition? THE definition is No: Education. Employment. Training.
The word is typically not used literally to include all people for which that is true. It's typically used to describe people in situations like the one I want to talk about that live comfortable lives despite not contributing to society.

>We know exactly what the other has meant this entire time.
If you were really thinking of the homeless (but not housewives) this entire time then I legitimately did not know what you meant.

>Explicit advocacy that wage-earning not be denigrated as-such IS however my goal
It's easy inflammatory bait that even has some legitimate points to it. The desirability of waging vs neeting ultimately comes down to personal value judgments and subjective reaction to various pros and cons. These vary more than normalfags want to admit. It might even vary more than neets want to admit, explaining why they attack normalfags for not valuing one of neetdoms major pros (free time). I've always assumed that was mostly shitposting but maybe i'm projecting.

In any case normalfags often take the incorrect position that these significant subjective differences don't exist between people's conscious experience. While that happens they will always be argued against. And since this is 4channel it will be argued against while simultaneously insulting and baiting each other.

It seems like in the first part of your post you're arguing there is usually room to think about the system your job takes place in and that formulating arguments for suggested changes is another thing to think about.

The first response I would give is that those possibilities for thought don't seem like they're significant compared to possible neet activities. I gave some examples of shit I do that seems more mentally stimulating to me and even if the average neet isn't trying to prove theorems a lot of those aren't too dissimilar from generic neet activities. I guess you could argue that average neet games and entertainment are more passive to the point of being less stimulating than what you were suggesting. I'm not sure that's true and it especially doesn't seem true to the extent that those things would expand your mind while neet activities would rot it.

The other thing I'd say is that practically speaking most wagies don't or can't use those opportunities for thought. (I guess this probably depends on your cutoff for the mindlessness of a task before the people doing it stop being wagies. I suspect it applies to broom sweepers though.) So it's not actually a causal explanation for a claim that neethood rots your brain worse than wagiedom, since on average neither group is being simulated in that way.

The homeless stuff we did argue about then argue about the relevancy of it to what we wanted to discuss.

>implying being a wagie is a good thing

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>I can't imagine not being an irresponsible consumer
Just fuck off, slave

I appreciate that someone made a pro-productivity post that did not advocate for consumerism or contain dogmatic appeals to the well being of society. However, what I find strange is the implicit assumption that productivity must come with financial gain. Nowhere in this post are the merits of the productivity of the unprofitable worker considered. If this post's definition of a "career-man" is required to earn a profit for his labor, then this post is still advocating for integration into the economic system - with all the materialism that entails - despite containing some compelling existentialist rhetoric. Surely financial gain would not be the only metric of success for this post's definition of "career-man"? a hypothetical productive NEET could "regard[s] his work as constant progress, as a constant upward motion from one achievement to another, higher one, driven by the constant expansion of his mind, his knowledge, his ability, his creative ingenuity"; would this hypothetical productive NEET not qualify as "career-man" simply because he does not receive compensation for his labor? After all, if "It is not the degree of a man’s ability that is ethically relevant in this issue, but the full, purposeful use of his ability.", then someone who's "full, purposeful use of his ability" is not facilitated under the current economic system should become a productive NEET so that they may more purposely use their ability.

>2 years of salary in a western country is more than half the world makes in their lifetime
Yes, and a 5 dollar meal is 15 times more expensive than a regular meal in a third world country. Unless you're planning on moving to another country (which brings another shit ton of complications to your autistic master plan) this statement is irrelevant.

>tfw do whatever I want whenever I want
>meanwhile you wake up at a specific time
>go to work or lose your job
>follow ALL the rules and never stray the path that has been set for you
>convince yourself that it's worth it
then we both die

>valuing work by the pleasure it provides and not by the end it produces
kek

Faggot if we could live off an investment from our mother's inheritance we all fucking would. You just don't know you won't get half shit from it. Unless he is stupid rich (which I doubt) it's a stupid plan

I unironically do this and I have to say, the only reason to be a wagie from my perspective is that you either have a job that
>gives you the opportunity to make genuinely worthwhile connections (either from endearing customers or high ranking business execs)
or
>allows you to get paid for something you're actually good at and can excel in
Since 99.9 of the jobs in the modern world are ant-tier, most people who aren't insanely lucky or jewish are honestly worth just being a NEET and smiling, golden rule'ing people within the day-to-day

It's just called thinking, that's all. Try it sometime.

You are indeed not me, good post though.

fpbp

What do the great philosophers have to say about me always falling for the girls who have boyfriends?

Mostly that you're a faggot who should focus less on hedonistic desires, I think.

Wanting a good life partner with an intoxicating smile is hedonistic? It's not like I'm looking for floosies to choke on it.

what "end" does your work produce? we all have the exact same end, it's about the journey

can somebody get rid of this faggot please

Unironic communist here. I do not hate NEETs at all. Fuck partaking in the capitalist system and fuck any cucks that say you should.

enough disposable income to do when I want whenever I want
>bbbut Mr shekelstein forces you to work 60 hours a week and you never get holidays
cute. Enjoy living in a council retirement home or whatever the fuck American equivalent is while I enjoy my actual retirement that is fully funded by my own hard work

>Bragging about retirement
Wagecucks have zero self awareness lmao

>the only thing you have to look forward to is the last few years of your life

people like you are truly demented

You have to remember that while is a very common mindset in the US, so too is their belief that they don't deserve affordable college (or even healthcare). My guess is that they are driven to hold these 'ideals' by conditioning from media and society but ultimately endorsed by coorporations and banks who absolutely love a consuming, loan-taking citizen.

If anything, admire how the big institutions managed to trick the common man into self-cuckoldry.

if you were intelligent and skilled enough you would be able to retire by the age of 40
but sadly you are worthless neets that cant even get out of bed before midday. enjoy dying of starvation in the streets, lmao.

So being a neet is okay if you have the money? Totally defeats your own argument, try again.

Wrong nigga healthcare should be free and thankfully it is in my country
Also a supporter of small business so kys worthless drain on able bodied and minded people who contribute to the continuation of a civilized and functioning society

I'm not even a neet pal, please keep it civil though. You shouldn't assume everyone who is in favour of an idea has ulterior motives, child.

retiree is not a neet. try again.

A retiree is not in
-
-
-
please fill in the blanks so you don't humiliate yourself.

shut up neet boy

you too neet boy

I win :)

"Neets are modern day philosophers" -an old friend

>40
Wagecucks still digging themselves in the hole HAHAHAHA again zero self awareness. This cope is pathetic
>w..we..well I can stop working when I'm middle aged at best and my ideological utopia will make you pay!!!
Or or or or, I don't work now and still get to not work when I'm old

>Nietzsche
He would in no way approve of somebody living their lives safely without risk or adventure.

>Risktakers and adventurers go to school and work for a wage

NEET
Not in employment, education, training
Why do people attach 'timid loser' to this title? Give me the name of one great man who wasn't a literal neet
The word has taken on an identity of a typical basement dwelling neckbeard, which consists of most NEETs, but neethood isn't the source of an insult. NEETs consist of the worst and best of mankind

>muh magical neetbux for a single man in his 20s living at home can pay for me do actually do things I like

>Why do people attach 'timid loser' to this title?
Because nearly every single post from NEETs are about how they can stay in bed all day and play video games, none of them are ever bragging about all the free time they have to do other things, mostly because neetbux can't fucking pay for it.

CITATION NEEDED EFFENDI!

Literally just google neet thread and you'll see nothing but weirdos no, great self improving Gods just lonely people.

Perhaps. But what does that matter? Those people will be lazy slobs even if they have a job. Or do you think that working instantly makes the rest of your day more productive (hint: it won't)