Is this actually worth reading or is it just a meme?

Is this actually worth reading or is it just a meme?

Is it better in Chinese? I'm taking a chinese course after summer

Attached: art of war.jpg (1662x2560, 141K)

I liked it. I'm not an expert on this subject but I think this book is essential if you want to read some literature about war, strategies, etc. Also almost every paragraph in translation I've read has explanation with interpretations by some Chinese philosophers like Sorai and even they interprented the same words differently. So I doubt your Chinese is good enough to understand it.

I haven't gotten to far into it myself but there was another author who made a point about books that could be seen as a meme. His point was that even if you may not find it that great in the end, if you know a lot of other people read it and take from it, you will better understand their reasoning.

I think it's a meme. Never heard it mentioned in a philosophical context.

Why would it be a meme because it's not mentioned in a philosophical context? As the title suggests, it's about war and strategy.

it's full of "dude know your enemy" -tier """wisdoms"""
i read it as an edgy teenager and gained absolutely nothing

Really get the sense its a war manual and good to take in that capacity, but only in broad terms if you're trying to apply it to different eras of warfare.

If you're trying to apply it to life in general go back to barely passing business school.

a 3 milenium old book on the basics of war. It covers everything that is basic. Some versions have good commentaries and pratical historical events on the theories

It's interesting if you find history and historical warfare interesting. It's also like a 40 minute read just see for yourself.

This. If you're wanting to apply it in modern life, (unless you're actually commanding an army and don't have a clue about how to that) then it's a meme and so are you.

>Is it better in Chinese?
Obviously, but it's not famous for pretty writing and it's very straightforward so I don't think much is lost in translation.

Are you familiar with the average intelligence of promoted cannonfodder and doorkicker police?

This is written for these types, smart and tough enough to reach command level.

The essential chinese sentiment is in the first paragraph: if at all possible, avoid war. The chinese response to the idea of luan, or anarchic chaos, is horror. Add to that a chinese idiom: good iron is not used to cast nails; good men do not take up soldiery.

It is not really a phil text; just headology in the arena of tactics.

Read it to gain some perspective, thats all; this book is not haxors.

get John Minford's version.

Sounds like you know good Chinese literature, what would you recommend?

Not him but I'm a Chinaboo
Do not start with Three Kingdoms. Everyone starts with Three Kingdoms. It's a mistake. Three Kingdoms is drier than a mummy's arsehole, and unless you're really into it it'll probably turn you off.

First, go to your best library and see if they have the Columbia Anthology of Traditional Chinese Literature. It runs you through all sorts of Chink shit from all sorts of eras, so it's a great way to figure out what you like and what bores you. I think there's an abridged version on libgen.

For novels, check out:
Water Margin: chock full of vivid characters doing brutal things
Jin Ping Mei/Plum in the Golden Vase [David Roy]: sprawling character-driven drama filled with eroticism, decay, and decadence. Also a contender for the "first novel ever written" throne; it was published about the same time as Don Quixote.
Dreams of the Red Chamber/The Story of the Stone [Yang or Minford]: a delicate exploration of an aristocrat's life filled with subtleties and allusions. It honestly reminds me a lot of the "peace" parts of War and Peace.
You will need to pirate these.

Pu Songling is an excellent introduction to Chinese short stories. Lots of quirky stories, ghosts, fairies, qt foxgirls, and accounts of strange phenomena, as well as a poem which takes quotes from classic literature out of context to make it seem like homosexual acts. Basically, it's just what you'd expect from a guy who calls himself "Chronicler of the Strange". The Penguin (Minford) translation is good, all others are shit.

Honourable mention: Creation of the Gods (gods, demons, spirits, magic, epic villains and epic heroes -- that sort of thing) -- impossible to find tho

>Are you familiar with the average intelligence of promoted cannonfodder and doorkicker police?
>This is written for these types, smart and tough enough to reach command level.
Wrong.
The version I got has a really good preface explaining it. The Chinese believe that orders, manuals and laws should be simple and easy to understand. Verbosity should be limited to the works of art in literature.
Sun Tzu wrote it in an easy and simple way so everyone, from the general to the militiaman, could understand it and know what to do.

No, it depends on the translation. Ultimately any ancient text is steeped deeply in the society in which it was conceived. So, it can be taken philosophically, just have knowledge of Chinese philosophy and get a version that relates to it.

Is the 70 chapter version of water margin missing a lot from the 100 chapter?It's the only one I've ever found online.
>tfw can't read chinese
Makes me feel like a brainlet

outdated, just read some game theory

>Ultimately any ancient text is steeped deeply in the society in which it was conceived. So, it can be taken philosophically
This makes no sense unless you're somehow using 'philosophically' to mean 'historically'.

Say you have an ancient Sumerian shopping list that has somehow survived. You could learn historical lessons from it. But what philosophical lessons do you propose to draw from it?

The 70 chapter version was curated by a very famous 17th century Chinese literary critic. It leaves out the outlaws being pardoned by the emperor and then sent to fuck up his enemies. tbqh I wouldn't worry about not reading it.

However, I forgot to say one thing: do NOT real Pearl Buck's translation. She was terrible at translating, but because her translation was the first one it got popular. But she straight-up didn't properly translate Chinese words. She's like Garnett only five times moreso.

If you're reading the 70 chapter version, make sure it's Jackson's. He was actually p good for an early 20th century translator.
If you get full post-modern you can say it shows their base assumptions regarding the relationship between people and the things desired by them.

If you have any foreknowledge of military tactics then skip it, it is the very basics of warfare. People read far too much into it. Think of it as a "So you've got yourself an army," kind of book.

That's because unlike philosophy, this book has practical applications and can therefore be falsified. Philosophers recede in horror at the prospect of their fanfiction of reality getting a kick in the nuts by said reality.

>Honourable mention: Creation of the Gods (gods, demons, spirits, magic, epic villains and epic heroes -- that sort of thing) -- impossible to find tho
there's a shit PDF floating around online afaik