Do you think the reason why the Joker went as far as he did with Robin in Return of the Joker was because Batman was...

>Harley was cool with torturing a kid?

Yes, she's evil.

>The joker has access and knowledge to gene altering tech?
STAS already had street thugs getting alien tech.

1. It's a cartoon stop acting like the writers actually connected any of this, we haven't had character building like that since BTAS which brings me too
2.It had been implied several times Harley was reforming and distancing herself from the joker but the writers constantly walked this back to make more joker/Harley stories and that's fine, but to have her arc end with her doing something that fucked up kind of just throws all of her development in the trash

3.I guess that upsets me more than anything with Batman beyond, not specifically Harley but so much character development and so many story arcs we're killed when they canceled BTAS. In a lot of ways the new Batman adventures feels like a soft reboot and Batman beyond a sequel to that rather than BTAS
Still good but not the same

Ace breaking him definitely hurt his pride/made him vulnerable in a way he's never been before. His original boast was that her powers wouldn't work on him because he's already insane. Turns out he had further to drop.

> STAS already had street thugs getting alien tech.

Those where given them to them by Apokaliptians, the intergalactic equivalent of giving weapons to one side in a country to weaken it. Now Joker has gotten advanced tech before, but it was normal given to him by either Lex or Sivana.

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I can't really buy the idea of Harley reform considering TNBA just had her as a full-time villain with Ivy on a number of occasions, not to mention her stints with Joker. Even the episode about her tragic backstory ended with her going back to the same self-destructive mentality, and the Static Shock crossover had her trying to kill a teenage girl who probably wasn't much older than Tim.

I think the movie at least tries to imply Harley wasn't involved with the torturing given that she doesn't know Bruce's identity, so she wasn't in the room when Tim broke down and Joker never shared the info with her. The new BTAS comics had her express similar discomfort with Joker trying to kill Jason.

I prefer this death over his electrocution. It's so cathartic watching his ego pop the moment he's shot. It never even occurred to him that Tim would have some fight left in him.

>It had been implied several times Harley was reforming and distancing herself from the joker but the writers constantly walked this back to make more joker/Harley stories and that's fine
Any examples of this? Because all I recall is her hanging out with Ivy and getting Jealous enough to hit Joker a few times. She never seemed like she was reforming to me until she appeared as an old lady at the end of the same movie.

On a similar note, which comes first chronologically (assuming both are in the same timeline): Return of the Joker’s flashbacks or Batman and Harley Quinn?

I can’t exactly remember if Joker is confirmed alive in the Harley Quinn movie, and it would make sense that Batman is working with Nightwing if Tim is out of commission. But, I can’t really see a somewhat happy Batman working with either a sidekick (too much trauma) or with Quinn after the brainwashing.

In "Return of the Joker," Harley went missing after her fight with Batgirl, last seen falling into a chasm. The Harley Quinn movie might take place in a completely different canon.

Yeah its not super clever or anything but seeing Joker go "that's not funny" when killed by one of his own basic tricks is really satisfying.

yeah but we know she survived since she meets the DeeDee twins and chastised them as their grandma, which also means she got some semblance of a normal life afterwards. I know it’s up in the air on the continuity of the Harley Quinn movie (Timm said he believes it is but isn’t sure), so I’m just theorycrafting

I think it's just how Joker said it during his scuffle with Batman, they've been doing this song and dance for so long and Joker got tired of it and Batman and wanted to break him for good.

Static Shock was concurrent with JL and there's a Static episode where Batman mentions Robin (who would've been Tim at the time) is "with the Titans." Someone could probably work out the dates from that.

>The joker has access and knowledge to gene altering tech?
Epilogue establishes he stole it from Cadmus, just like he did the Royal Flush Gang

Did Bruce name his dog Ace because of the psychic Ace?

>The post-Crisis timeline is very dense. Knightfall, Death of Supes, Emerald Twilight, Contagion, Cataclysm, No Man's Land, Tower of Babel, Hush, Identity Crisis--all of that happens in three years
Man, either the humans in the DCU have become mentally tough as nails dealing with all this shit or there’s like a 200% higher suicide rate there than in our universe.

Harley isn’t a good person, user. She has moments of kindness but she was willing to murder Catwoman and literally turn her into cat food. Torture isn’t off the table for her.

I doubt the writers ever consodered that. Ace is just kind of a normal "dog name", seperste from the royal flush theme. So we can chalk that up to prequel weirdness.

True, but she does have a connection with Batman which makes you think.

Batman and Harley Quinn isn't DCAU. It just looks like it.

Bruce Timm probably doesn't support the idea of Harley ever succeeding at reform.

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Is it possible the DeeDee Twins are the Joker and Harley’s grandchildren? Harley could have saved some “puddin’” in case the Joker ever died, he might not have even known about it.

She eventually does in RotJ. We don’t know how long it took, but she at least retired at some point.

To be fair, her reform in the dcau obviously happens after Joker died, her love for Joker is the entire resons she's even a villain, so its belivable for her to snap out of it afterwards. Even then she might have still faced some heavy consequences for her life of crime

I doubt it. Its pretty easy to imagine some guy would totally be down for knocking her up after Joker's dead and she's no longer evil.

isn’t there also an episode of Static Shock where Static meets Robin and he’s legitimately older (design, voice, characterization)? does that mean Tim was still Robin after those events or was it someone else

Maybe, but I also wouldn’t put it past Harley to keep a piece of Joker around, knowing the kind of work they’re in could easily lead to death.

I’d still like to see a DCAU version of the Titans. No, I don’t think the 2000s Titans show is part of the DCAU.

It wasn't planned at the time of beyond but retroactively it was 100% intentional for that episode. There's no indication of Ace dying in the last episode she's in so bringing her back for a Beyond episode where her death is the crux of the plotline was planned.

There's really no other way for him to go out, those should always be his last words.

>those should always be his last words.
Agreed.

I read somewhere that the ending of Batman & Harley Quinn is meant to override the ROTJ flashback, though I have no idea of how legit that was.

Nah, remember? Harley "died" in that whole debacle. Probably got some of her underworld friends to concoct her a new identity and hung it up for good after a mourning period.

There's no way. Why the fuck would Batman and Nightwing kiss the woman who helped torture Tim? Why would Dick fuck her?

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I guess that's possible but really, from what we see in the dcau, villains getting out of jail legit after some years of good behavior is absolutely possible. Pretty risky of her to be going by "Nana Harley" if she's technically hiding her past. Her grandkids shouldn't even have an idea of her real name is she went for that identity flip.

Just as good are his Arkham City last words.

"That actually is...pretty funny."

Ya'll forgetting? About Nana harley at the end of it?

youtube.com/watch?v=ybQTcGBOi0Y

Commish Barbara tells Terry that Harley's no threat at her age. Most likely Harley's too old and tired to give a shit anymore.

Drop the username

no, he went as far as he did because he is Bat shit crazy

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Plus it's very possible Harley reformed and that's why she so pissed at the DeeDees.

"You rotten little scamps! I struggle to make a good home for you, and this is the thanks I get? Break your grandmother's heart? I hope they throw the book at you!"

user...
>her reform in the dcau obviously happens after Joker died

how do we know she even reformed?

honestly if we ever got a proper DCAU animated continuation, I would be more than fine with them actively diverging the canon away from ROTJ and Beyond in general, Beyond on it's own merits is great but as the canon future for the DCAU it's always felt too dour and bitter

There's also things like Warhawk was introduced as a character in Batman Beyond, before Hawkgirl was introduced with Justice League.

Ace has always been the traditional name of Bruce's dog since the 60s when he had him as the Bat-Hound.

Does this even count as DCAU/Timmverse canon? I thought it was a case of just using the DCAU animation style but not being canon like The Fatal Five film.

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We know. We’re talking DCAU continuity and how it connects within that universe.

Don’t know why you responded to me, I just suggested she impregnated herself with saved Joker semen. That has nothing to do with being reformed or not.

Beyond came first, so Ace was simply a callback to comic lore. Ace in JLU was a simple coincidence that may have had a connection retconned in later.