Is there really no way out of the spectacle? is that why debord uninstalled?

Aha, you're from /leftypol/, that explains everything

Buying Ready Player One etc. isn’t ending capitalism

Is there anything capitialism cant do?

No. I’m from Yea Forums
Except that we’re headed to our extinction

Debord and his friends sought to create authentic “situations” as opposed to spectacular ones. Remember that video of a student who threw a pie at Lacan? That was a poor attempt at creating a “situation”.

So LARPing?

i'm not saying that it will end capitalism, my point is that popular movies play out the fantasy of rebellion for you, without you needing to actually do something. zizek talks about it when using the notion of interpassivity.

I get that. This isn’t capitalism “assimilating end of capitalism”. It’s just selling it. But in micro unserious chunks. AOC isn’t ending capitalism. A UBI won’t end capitalism. Taxing a handful of oligarchs 100% and sending them to jail isn’t ending capitalism. Those are just progressivist bandages for cancer. The “assimilation” is a farce

Notice how true this is for pepe posters using some smug rebellious character to do all their bidding

The spectacle is the ideological immune system of capitalism. What is required is an auto-immune disease that uses the very mechanism of ideological control to destroy that ideological control. We have to give capitalism AIDS.

go live innawoods

The way out of anything isn’t ‘word term’ it’s just being better people.

:3

>all these people saying communism and ending capitalism is the answer

I don't get it, how is communism suppose to solve the problem? Are we going to stop doing things like watching movies all of a sudden?

I never got this either, mass media wouldnt go anywhere. Hell wed probably need more if we wont work as much under communism. Communism isnt going to turn everyone into a patrician doesnt work like that

Then what is the system that will turn everyone into a patrician?

>turn everyone into a patrician?
It's not possible. Most people are just retarded

Doesn’t exist. It starts with the people and the way are organized and communicating. Changing who owns the means of production does nothing. :3

I would enjoy life more if the people around me held stronger Christian ethics.

By the people around me, I mean society.
Any political system can be enhanced by adding Christianity.
I don't blame Christianity for the mess we're in - I blame a lack of Christianity for the mess we find ourselves living through currently.

Go to church, user.
Stop watching porn, but never stop hating it for the exploitive business trade it is.

Christian Monarchy

Esoteric Hitlerism. David Myatt-thought, read SIEGE, faggots. All Hail The Black Sun! Marxist theory remains caught in the materialist logic of capital, this is why we must embrace magick, antinomian satanism and occult hypertribalism, reject utopianism for apocaliptic delivery of dystopia as a political platform. We must strive to be as radical and as uncompromising, as relentless and as remorseless as humanly possible. This is why I advocate for the immediate and TOTAL takeover of all political cultural, and economic institutions by a vanguard party of dedicated revolutionaries under the bloodstained hitlerite banner of the barred cross. We must assume totalitarian control over the human mass of the population by all and any means neccessary, including but not limited to full scale political TERROR and the wholesale liquidation of all those who oppose us. We will become as gods or we will die gloriously in the attempt.

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who is they? and without definition who can we point the finger at? Also, what is the greatest possible good? What do you define as truth? I don't agree with antifa but nor do I believe they are not reaching for truth? Whats truth for a 40yr old office desk job 9-5 laborer compared to a 18 yearold fresh out of HS heading to college to a 10 yr old stimulated everyday on fortnite to a 24 yr old neet posting here? Is the truth to take into account all of this or to take into account ones on view of good? And doom is nolonger surmised to the future it is a subconcious cultural religion of the now, just because you take drugs whether it be opiods,benzos,stimulants etc etc(speaking in more chronic terms i.g excluding psychs and weed) does it mean you are in depths of social depression inequivalent to change? No then what does it mean to do drugs? I love this example as everything else. What does it mean to go to uni and study philosophy and study for truth when society can all but turn away from your truth? Do you see where im getting at? Seeking is truth is achievable but escaping the now is not its a endless dreary dizzy filled paradox. shit is right around the corner always present stinking

>not my quote, got it from the hauntology thread

>All Hail The Black Sun!
You're cringey as fuck.

lmao at yall chapo leftypol trannies and soiifacing popnerd consumers daring to call me cringey. you are probably too crippled by anxiety to go out of your house or interact with normal humans. so fuck off. You are not in the least revolutionary or uncompromising, you are weak, you need to be put out of your misery.

I'm already winning.

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National syndicalism

now that's a seething if I ever saw one

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Nothing we can make everyone a pleb with anprim tho

What's wrong with being in the spectacle though?

I think it's more about commodification it.

nothing, Debord is just a reactionary run of the mill petty bourgeoisie elitist nostalgic for an imagined world of aristocratic high culture and tru authentic avant garde art. Basically your run of the mill white guy hipster lit bro. the drinking, the self mythologising, the compulsive obscure literary quotations, the blatant contempt for 'identity politics'. you will never see trans people or queer people or people of color complaining about the spectacle or baudrillardian simulacrums or inauthenticity. why? because they actually have life or death issues to worry about. Not to mention the elitist contempt for pop culture is bound up with gendered, racial and class prejudices, even when it is disguised as leftist and radical.

lol where did you come from

corrodes culture, coercive, and inauthentic

>Debord is just a reactionary run of the mill petty bourgeoisie elitist nostalgic for an imagined world of aristocratic high culture and tru authentic avant garde art

How can you think this when he wants to deconstruct religion and the family unit in the same way as the spectacle?

So, just be content to eat from the trashcan and flagellate myself for being white?

Have you tried assassination?

@12985227
As a reactionary, I am fond of this analysis.

We get it, you watched the Zizek debate and now you think you can just dismiss a philosopher based on some ad hominems like "they were petty bourgeoisie".

You are basically saying media like hip hop music doesn't effect the way black people consume products which is obviously wrong. They suffer from the spectacle too

no idea what the fuck this just said

You are obviously operating within an eurocentric and implicity racialised framework( see Hegel's ideas on race if you don't believe me). Debord's teleology assumes and implicit hierarchy of civilisations. You might want to check out Homi K Bhaba on how subalterns can formulate subversive subject positions within the colonial system and also read up Quijano and Mignonne on decolonisation.

Hell yeah, wakanda forever

go live in africa fag

If you are a white male and interested in leftism, you have to understand leftism as a journey of coming to terms with your whiteness and all the small privileges and unconscious prejudices that come with them, a journey of unlearning towards empathy and acceptance . Debord was a product of his time, the individualism and implicit patriarchy rebellious macho posturing of the 60s new left that left so many issues unresolved. really, I acknowledge him as a poignant thinker, but I can't help but see situationism in the light of later blatantly toxic reactionary and hypermasculine movements that seek an 'exit' from society by any means necessary. The term identity politics was created by the combahee river collective, a revolutionary association of marxist black lesbians.

>"Guy Debord did not kill himself. He was murdered by the thoughtlessness and selfishness of so-called scholars (primarily trendy lit-criters) who colonized his brilliant ideas and transformed his radical politics into an academic status symbol not worth the pulp it's printed on…"

Sounds like he was disgruntled by the type of people who post Society of Spectacle every day on Yea Forums...

>a journey of coming to terms with your whiteness
you should come to terms with my dick in your ass

I don't get why you felt the need to derail the thread with this obvious and weak bait

First chapter is good but then it devolves into commie kvetching

technically he's not wrong. elitism, cynicism and misanthropy will never be the basis for an enmancipatory politics

Imagine if Dostoevsky knew about this board.

I recognize that I have indirectly benefited from being white, redlining etc., but I don't see any personal duty for political agitation. It seems futile given the efficiency of the spectacle, the necessary eventual collapse of the world economic system set in motion by the "Greatest Generation" playing with technology the consequences of which they knew very little. Even drawing attention to this shit just shores up the image of a benevolent, benign system that "allows dissidence."

>enmancipatory politics

just other words for further deterritorialization by capital. and people who use them are
bootstrapped cynics and upper middle class elitists, useful fools at this stage, later just fools.

but anyway, I prefer total exit and honest elitists, cynics and misanthropes to any kid of human collective.

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Is there anything more insufferable than bourgeois Yurops vandalizing actually authentic art and architecture?

The spectacle is an extension of commodity fetishism so you have to analyze and understand that first before you move on to the spectacle. The spectacle however goes beyond it because it becomes rewires what you think is real as movement of images. The spectacle can only end when commodity fetishism ends. The real question is, what is the main driving force, metaphysically that drives this thing to perpetuate itself? One answer would be money, an abstraction that allows the market to calculate commodities and therefore is tied to psychological drives. Another would be the old Marxist idea of ideology masking the value of what is produced under a metaphysical reification, but that is not enough in my opinion because after the spectacle we have a re-wiring of what is real. Its not an "obfuscation" per se , but a value presented as series of experiences. The spectacle is tied to money and commodities, the Badrillardian idea of simulation as well, even though at that point it gets a life of its own beyond reality, it still is tied to completely abtract value operating in under an alien logic in comparison to the common mans needs. I don't have an answer how to escape it, because we first need to understand how commodity fetishism is so strong in the first place.These are my two cents (no pun intended).

cringe and kys. but also, it's interesting how conservative values, that remain, don't give any form of friction to capital. nowadays, also all of '60's new left' positions are under attack by pseudoliberal bourgeois. any kind of agency and resistance is undermined with this type of rhetoric. it's not about patriarchy or individualism it's about, again, any form of agency and will. there really is conspiracy against the human race.

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So wait. Does this book start with a condemnation of all works of fiction as mere social controlling propaganda? Greek playwrights, Shakespeare etc.?

>I don't see any personal duty for political agitation. It seems futile given the efficiency of the spectacle

so this 'radical' theory just serves as a rationalisation for the cynical detachement that is enabled by your privilege, the privilege based directly on the suffering and opression of your queer and PoC comrades? Or more charitably, you want to consume western 'high culture' without questioning its fundamental assumptions and actually growing up and becoming responsible for your privilege and the way you consume and interact with media?Representation is important in ways you can't even imagine, dude you grew up in a world were all the superheroes, the actors and the politicians looked pretty much like you, so you don't know what its like not feeling represented. I don't want to seem agressive, but you really have to reflect on wheter your hostility to 'the spectacle' is only entitled ressentment at a cultural landscape that is no longer that centered on you.

Poc are not oppressed in the west they are literally catered to you sad imbecile. White people dont owe anybody a single thing, you should all be thanking whites for everything they invented

It always bothered me. Shouldn't it be Society of the Spectacles because they're all wearing glasses?

quoi? ça fait bizarre quand les bamboulas se mettent au développement théorique mdrr

Based Bordiga dropping black pills on all the pseuds

the way out is realising that the solution has already been achieved: tell me, in what society have social relations not been mediated by images? all social reality exists in a mediated form; immediacy, and the desire for it, belong to religion. it is straight out of the bible. "for now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." life under modern conditions have rendered explicit what has always been the case, the gap which always has separated - complicated - human relations. there is no way out, we have only grasped conceptually what has always been true in fact.

The spectacle isn't just fiction , see The spectacle is a form of commodity fetishism which presents a "value" in a series of images. The images are "experienced" and rewire out brains and experience itself is then commodified in turn. The question in capitalism according to Marx has always been this "What is Valuable for Life", in a noncapitalist system you would argue that it would be a cost benefit analysis of what is needed to survive and maintain the social. In Advanced Capitalism we view reality itself, daily life that is, as series of commodified images. Baudrillard would say that is the basis of hyperrealitythat masks its own logic , in that it has no inner truth. But it all comes down as to what we believe to valuable. There is therefore a qualitative leap beyond everyday ideology and the tottalization of commodification, because ideology still operates under the assumption of a conscious subject. There is no subject in the stream of spectacle however, but depersonalizing force operating either under the logic of money or market forced.

Yeah that's kinda my problem with these polemic Marxist critiques of capitalism. If you look at any structure of society throughout history you see these same issues. They recognize the illness but oversimplify the pathology by assuming capitalism is the disease and Marxism is the cure.

Being a Hegelian Marxist, Debord was convinced communism represented the realisation, abolition and superssesion of all previous human religion, philosophy and culture. Previous millenarian and messianic movements, revolutionary upheavals, and artistic avant-gardes being nothing but embryonic grasping at communist species being consciousness. Its really as messianic and as apocalyptic as it sounds.

The woods are assimilated into the capitalist system of private property, there is no escape that doesn't involve the complete destruction of the capitalist system.

if you go live in the siberian wilderness nobody is going to bother you

In the past the mask of ideology at least was stories we told ourselves to make sense of our actions.The quest for immediacy isn't at stake here, its the complete absence of reality as any kind of force. To abandon the quest for the real non--alienated man is I agree foolish, but the point is that at the present state of Capitalism not even a story is needed for a man to wake up at 8 in the morning and work all day with the expectation that at the end of his work day his release will come with Netflix, internet pornography and social media.

I don't care about appearing to be radical, I don't care about white representation. I'm not a communist. Make all the superheroes la raza de la hora, it wouldn't bother me. The spectacle is a useful theoretical lens for understanding the ideological functioning of mass media, that's it. It is nothing more or less than that. And what would being "responsible for my privilege" look like? I recognize that property in my family was probably off limits to black people for purchase. What do you expect me to do about this? Sell it and start a reparations fund?

They just want you to vote for /theirguy/ Its just propaganda to prey on the more "empathetic"

Insert the Stirneringo into the system

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No stories?
Game of Thrones, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Marvel Comics, the mega brands dictate the pulse and rhythm of the global monoculture doing for us what homeric bards did for archaic greece. Established Collective patterns of glances, postures, listening and repeating what was heard, limitations on the aformentioned this is what the state really is. The illiad and the odyssey, the hymns and songs, functioned as detailed tribal encyclopedias, always within oral consciusness of a preliterate population, providing unconscious patterns for behaviour. Wonder why Plato was so pissed at the poets? Really, he was a media critic and a critic of urbanism. Moderns always claim an ironic distance from their myths, which if anything makes them more vulnerable to manipulation.

Capitalism is already over.

I want you to eat my shit.

>Except that we’re headed to our extinction
how is this bad?

This really reminds me of of a poem by Gunnar Ekelöf. If I was to render a very small portion of it into English, it would go roughly like this:

The only thing which is
is something else!
The only thing which is
in this which is
is something else!
The only thing which is
in this which is
is that which in this
is something else!
(O the soul’s lullaby
the song of something else!)

Past stories were not always to their benefit. Christianity in large part served as a doctrine to justify hierarchy by motioning towards a non-hierarchical beyond. Life today is not all Netflix and internet porn, although admittedly it is in large part just that. My real feeling is that his horror is in part just horror of things that are "human, all too human." What I mean is the problem of the spectacle is not so complete as he seems to suggest, and not so discontinuous with what came before.

Tell that to the capitalists. They don’t wanna listen to me

You know, you can go ahead and kill yourself if you want to go so badly

honestly if it is to believe in something impossible I'd rather say I believe in accelerationism rather than communism

capitalism is the universal process of dislocation that reveals the creative nothing that is Man. Everything spiritual and lofty long melted into thin air, only the very act of creating- alchemy, forgery- the continuous, eternal making something from nothing and nothing from something abides and remains. The mark of a true revolutionary: an insatiable thirst for infinity. Any conservatism, any liberalism, authoritarianism, moralism or nostalgic attachement amounts to a denial of the infinite, a containment, a inhibition.

>if you want to go so badly
i dont. im just asking you to explain why extinction is bad

It orang “condemn” anything you pseud. Read a DAMN book for once. Start and end with Stoner because apparently you don’t and can’t comprehend Debord.

It does go deeper than the institution of capitalism. Is accumulative deb based currency that enables capitalism, and LAW that enables that. Therefore anarchism is the superior critique. No matter how right Marx has been.

I accept that we all have to go sometime. Society, like any single being, must come to its end. But I want more, we want more. There’s still much to see and do.

It’s called a question, dipshit

Popular assemblies and direct democracy would lead to the expulsion of darkies from 90% of White majority neighborhoods. Prove me wrong.

*its accumulative debt based currency

anarchism, in practice, means being a neurotic white liberal lifestylist in thrall to the corporate culture of consumerism and conformity while actually having zero understanding of economic critique or how to actually take power.

Read up on it sometime
Here’s a (You)

Then why don’t rightwingers support anarchism?

At this point, I doubt that tactic would have desirable results. But bring on the CSA cult of inbred mutants, coming out and begging for “darkie” communities aid.

>d. But I want more, we want more.
reddit

>my ideology will make everything authentic just believe in it
Lol

>Yea Forums is for life deniers
>r***it is lovers of life
Too bad it’s such a shitty format. Get off my board antinatalist

lmao a tranny/lesbian/whatever lecturing me about the wonders of childbearing from the heights of her cat infested garret.

Eugenics.

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this is what chapocels actually believe

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No, they believe in the absolute simulacra because that's what their detachable penises are.

>it's life or death
>if you don't date me i'll kill you

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Probably bait but what remains of the left actually believe this shit. Anyone with any brains abandoned that shit back in the 00s when the witch hunts started.

In exchange for...

And then he got railroaded by white man along with his opinion.

This to this of course

Not capitalism. A strange world that doesn’t venerate sociopaths for hoarding the most game tokens, a world that isn’t in a race to kill each other for profit. A world that values each other, friendship building and develops confidence and charisma. Nothing will ever be perfect, but the world that stops using accumulative debt tokens and challenges unjustifiable hierarchies is going to be all kinds of content with itself

I am not denying you have agency and will, it seems if you don't bother the intromission it seems to me that you are the one denying you own agency and will through paranoid lucubrations disguised as 'theory'. Being as you are a so called privileged person I believe you have a special power to create positive social change and be an ally to those who are less privileged. with great power, comes great responsibility.

This is an impossible world you speak of. It also might not be as desirable as you think. Of course, I don't think capitalism is the be-all end-all system either.

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Whoever would let that happen to their dog should be sterilized.

It’s a guess at what changing our old, ancient, bad habits would do for our minds. It’s no impossible or undesirable, it’s just extremely difficult to implement.

you're only in the spectacle if you believe in the spectacle. debord was trying to get out, but couldnt.

The dog seems to be okay.

Based based based
You get it user
And the Christians of this world need to be operating in love to act as restorers/good stewards of creation.

It's only because we have a penchant for cruelty that we also have a penchant for everything higher, like love. We could change these habits, but it'll come at the cost of everything else we've obtained along the way. To me, that's undesirable...

And if you don't believe me, you just have to look inside yourself. What was the most painful moment in your life? I'm willing to bet its intensity matches the most pleasurable moment in it as well. This has been the case for myself and everyone else I've asked this question to so far. It's no coincidence that tears can switch over to laughter and vice versa very quickly, as far as our physiology is concerned.

Okay Butterfly now it’s time for the next step. If I placed my phone number here what would you do :3

Wash your penis

Do you also wish to live in a poor country because wealthy ones are so undesirable? People in wealthy nations sometimes attain something like what I describe

Someone else would call you. Mad pranks would ensue. Leave me alone.

Or you would call me because you finally want to talk to me? :3

I think it’s that second option, mine. Is that what you’d do?

Almost correct, but just adding Christianity to politics doesn't work. This was the political message of Christ, he rejected all earthly power structures, which ultimately crucified him. If Christianity is to help renew us, it has to be anti-political and reject every existing power structure, as the early Christians did before they allied with the Roman state.

Kill the spectacle. Save the spectacle. Believe in the spectacle.

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oh no he figured out debord and baudrillard are cryptofascists, that trojan horse was the west's last hope.

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