For the first time in decades Joker is an actual character with an actual arc and not a walking plot device spewing...

desu as long as he makes a few jokes and tries to be funny its fine. if he does fucked up things that make you laugh before realizing how awful they are then bonus points.

>Instead he walks out of jail at will and terrorizes society. Even other supervillains fear him.
I retract "bad writing".
It's "abysmal writing" and "shitty character-wank" from now on.

>edgy
>Nihilistic
I hate retards that use this words for everything as criticism when they are not even real words, but then I remember Yea Forums IQ is lower than fucking Yea Forums and makes sense.

Seriously, do you faggots even know anything that isn't a meme? Or are you just zoomers desesperate to have a contrarian opinion to feel special. Edgy is not a real world.

I don't know if you realize this, you probably don't, but most of Batman's rogue gallery are "just guys". The fact that Batman has been turned into this god-slaying swiss army knife character that can solo Darkseid and Brainiac is the problem.

>Dr. Phosphorus
>Manbat
>Clayface
>Killer Croc
>Poison Ivy
>Bane on Venom
off the top of my head for obvious metahumans who are above just guys.

desu wannabe social darwnist claiming to be an advocate for chaos and disorder is lame cuz batman already has got somebody for that who has the political beliefs of like actual anarchists and is half the time mostly nonlethal like him. Anarchy works way better for that dynamic lol. I prefer Joker not pretending to be much more than a murderous gangster clown with a streak of comedy.

add ons
Cornelius Stirk has his whole making people see himself as something he isn't too counts.
Solomon Grundy kinda counts
Simon Hurt and Lord Death Man kinda but not really.

Fpbp

Wasn't Grundy originally from Alan Scott or sth

other add ons i'm coming up with as think of these
the chick from gotham high who's a pyro witch
Killer Moth when he got tfed into an evil demon moth man.
OneFace and Scarebeast if people remember that dogshit.
I think, Grundy is like Kingpin, he started out on one series, hopped to another and he now menaces a bunch of characters in general.

>Desu
No.
>Anarchu
That's what it is retard. Learn what Anarchy and Nihilism are before throwing tantrums like this. They're not just "chaos" and "existentialism"

One, desudesudesu,
two, not the poster you originally replied to.
three I'm talking about the literal batman villain Anarky.
four, Anarchy means without leader, their can be small form governance without a leader with collective decision making on a local level. Chaos just means everything going batshit crazy and a system being disordered.

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>Wants to stop (((elite group))) from ruling over everyone else
>This is le bad

Isn't Anarky being a full-blown villain only a recent development and he's more of an anti-hero in original stories?
I blame Beware the Batman and Arkham Origins.

Anarky has always been portrayed in a far more positive light than most Batman villains, sometimes he even has a no kill rule sometimes he doesn't, he usually uses concussive bombs, knockout bombs, and the staff that zaps people like a stun prod. He's basically the opposite end of Batman.
yeh, arkham origins made him a total hypocrite Anonymous/Occupy Wall Street stand in while BtB made him into a shitty Joker knockoff who was more grandiose and theatrical if a bit more pseudo intellectual and blatant with the chaos vs order metaphors.

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Bad writing isn't a "within the context of the story" answer, you turbofaggot

>Comicfags not wanting anything but the same slop force-fed to them over and over again

Are you new or something? Cape readers are the worst people when it comes to this sort of thing.

like Yea Forumstards are any better

Too bad the voice actor got cancelled for sending sexual messages to 16-17 year old fans

twitter.com/LilySessa/status/1448520016966537217

mobile.twitter.com/riverarova/status/1448689406920040448

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>16-17 year old fans
So people who should be old enough to know better?

Isn’t the joker a genius level intellect with some martial arts training? Yeah he isn’t hard to kill but neither is Batman if we’re gonna talk about plot armor. It’s the yin yang of their relationship that makes it work so well

>a genius level intellect
Absolutely meaningless term when it comes to capeshit. Throw a rock and you will hit "a genius level intellect".
>some martial arts training
You mean retarded "he's too crazy to be predictable" bullshit that for some reason makes him a threat even to the likes of Cass Cain and Midnighter? Yeah, it's also completely fucktarded bad writing.
>but neither is Batman
And Batwank is also bad, what's your point?
>it's okay that the villain is dogshit because muh yin yang
Nah.

Joker doesn't work well with character arcs. Neither does Batman for that matter.

>Joker is a boring 1D character that has nothing going for him but being a self-insert for loser teenagers who think "muh edgy clown man who's evil for the sake of evil" is cool and edgy
Yes.

Genius level is only like top 10%. Throw a rock at 10 people and yeah you'll probably hit one.

>martial arts training
From who? Where? When? No the best incarnations of joker fight dirty with weapons and poison gas and crazy gadgets so batman can't actually lay hands on him for more than a couple blows.

The problem with Joker is that they want us to take him seriously as an intellectual and ideological match to Batman, when he has no point whatsoever. It's just "muh chaos" that hr uses to justify not rising above his supposed "trauma".

You wouldn't get it

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I liked John Doe though. And I always went for the vigilante route.

Based.

What about Arthur Fleck?

Didn't Joker movie came two years later?
Also a good interpretation, by the way. Fuck "not muh Ledger" fags.

>he's too crazy to be predictable
i wonder how many times joker shat his pants to get out of a situation

>It just doesn't work if he is just a guy.
holy fucking shit, do you even know what goddamn genre you're reading? you're so stupid it hurt MY brain.

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Fpwp.

>How could the Joker be as effective as he is when he is just a guy with bleached skin?
I don't get why you read comics when you clearly don't actually like them. Yeah, Joker's a fucking clown--that's all he needs to be.

Powerlevelfaggots were a mistake.

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Another fake-fan in a Batman thread? God, it must be another day ending in "Y".

>How could the Joker be as effective as he is when he is just a guy with bleached skin?
One word. Goons.

Joker has the cash to hire as many gunts as he wants to get the job done. Yes anyone CAN kill him, but like the Penguin, Two face, Mr. Freeze ext he has an army of goons to take on any would be attackers. He's more of a mob boss than just some wack ass clown wanting chaos.

>Instead he walks out of jail at will and terrorizes society.
My read is he's the Capone of Gotham. Why else does he get the Price of Crime treatment? He pays off Arkham staff (or just gets them to join his gang like harley) and gets the best medical treatment around because he has the money too. If he doesnt he just goes and robs another bank.

Doctor's patch him up over a few months of phisical therepy (remember the bat fixed his back after Bane snapped him in two so suspend your disbeleif for a moment) and he's ready to laugh another day.

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John/Joker from Telltale was amazing. His bonding with Bruce throughout the game in addition to the Vigilante route made me care about the character so much more than pretty much every modern incarnation. Telltale made the Joker an actual character and not a plot device
fpwp

It really sounds like you are being dishonest on purpose, the Joker is a supergenius strategist and inventor, other characters are not able to kill him for the same reason they are not able to kill Spider-Man, Batman, Constantine, Dr Who, Dr Octopus, Reed Richards etc

He's smart enough to predict any moves against him and can build countless sci fi machines to protect his ass including brainwashing other capable individuals to replace him(3 jokers and Batman who laughs) nevermind his acess to supernatural objects that can bring him back to live.

You're making it too over-complicated. Joker's just a clever clown/mobster. No need to do this shit where we artificially make him
>TOP TEN SMARTEST MOTHERFUCKERS IN THE DEE-SEE-YOU
because we already do that for fucking everyone, and it's getting a bit tired.

>Instead he walks out of jail at will and terrorizes society.
That's more of the fact that Batman comics have been written since before your grandfather was reading comics. You don't actually read comics, just complain about them.
If you actually read comics, you'd be complaining about the actual writing, and not in theoretical terms.

Asspulls?
And sure, let's compare Spider-Man whose powers include literally sensing danger to bullshit "dude it was all part of my plan, lmao" shit writing. Or Mr. Fantastic who actually IS a smartest person on Earth (fuck retcons) even by Marvel capeshit standards.
Where's that Yea Forums screenshot about BBC Sherlock and Anton Chigurh when you need it?
>Instead he walks out of jail at will and terrorizes society. Even other supervillains fear him.
That's atrocious writing, yes. And the whole "even other villains fear him" thing will never stop being retarded wank.

>Joker's just a clever clown/mobster.
Literally never was, ever since his very first comic he was a supergenius with several skills including advanced chemistry and chameleon-tier disguise and after that was consistently shown building several advanced machines to use against Batman.
> No need to do this shit where we artificially make him TOP TEN SMARTEST MOTHERFUCKERS IN THE DEE-SEE-YOU
He was literally created to be a supergenius to contrast with regular mobsters Batman was constantly defeating

Joker is constantly hiding, constantly fleeing, constantly making up several plans just in case, it's hardly an asspull specially compared to characters like Kingpin, Octopus and Osborn who fucked up with god-like beings and still walk around like regular citizens.

>Literally never was
Being a chemist doesn't preclude you from being a clever clown/mobster.
>He was literally created to be a supergenius to contrast with regular mobsters Batman was constantly defeating
Do you have a source on this from Bill Finger or something, or is this just another headcanon?

He's a clever clown AND a supergenius with as many and constant supergenius feats as Batman itself. Seriously where is this "regular mobster joker" even from? The Dark Knight(2008)? Being a regular mobster is the Penguin role.

>those asspulls are not asspulls
Just fuck off, Joker fanboy.
>Kingpin
You mean, an incredibly rich and influential guy who instead of being "le edgy serial killer for the sake of it" actually put effort into his public image?
And also is an actual character unlike Joker.
Wow.

>AND a supergenius
Again; source? Otherwise it's just a headcanon.

>Joker is just a guy who can be killed
It's called suspension of disbelief. Most of Batmans rogues gallery are just flesh and blood. Hell at least half of the villains in both the DC and Marvel universes could be taken out with a bullet to the head.

Kingpin is mobster, his money and influence is just as good as the Joker own resources, it's nothing to characters that can destroy the planet or change reality itself with a thought.
>And also is an actual character unlike Joker.
Joker is a character, they posses several traits and their own "universe" in DC.

>>for the first time in decades Joker is an actual character with an actual arc and not a walking plot device spewing edgy nihilistic tripe
100%.

>the character constantly building advanced machines, formulas and ridiculous strategic feats is not a supergenius

Somehow Joker not having any meat to his character makes him not "just a guy".
Don't ask me, I'm not a retarded jokerfag.

>not having any meat to his character
What do you even mean, they are shown with several relationships and goals.