Zizek called out again, we need a "real marxist" not this relic who opposes immigration

it's just john lennon leftism: if you are open and tolerant enough towards people problems just magically fade away

but for some reason this only works with brown people, not with right wingers in their own countries

The left doesn't exist anymore in an organized sense and that plays a huge role in the way people larp as "leftists" today. Once upon a time left meant occupations, labor unions and fighting for socialism, it was tied to praxis , not an ideology that you can co-opt for yourself. This definition sounds closed but in reality it was more open that todays gate guardians of leftist ideology. All in all "white left" baizuo people need to die off as soon as possible, even with Trump and a resurgent white nationalism they sit on their asses and do nothing, revealing just how much revolutionary potential they have. They are useless and irrelevant and Zizek is right to ignore them and address the non-aligned center.

>occupations
>not larp

Peterson just got exposed as a dilettante, and a poor one at that.

1) Anyone who has taken a 100 level course on Marx could have given as good or better of a rundown and critique of the Communist Manifesto that Peterson gave.
2) No serious Marxist reads the meme pamphlet Marx wrote for uneducated workers, it's not an academic source, it's a propaganda piece.
3) Peterson, although claiming to have read and understood at least a modicum of Zizek's works, was not able to produce a single meaningful critique of his theory, even going so far as to be impressed with Zizek's take on Christianity
3a) Peterson is in many ways a scholar of religion, in particular Judeo-Christianity; he also critiques Marxism for being an athiest doctrine which rejects these principles. So if Peterson had done so much as read Zizek's wikipedia article, let alone an article on him in an encyclopedia of philosophy, let alone read one of his books on Christianity, he would have known this position and not been impressed by it. It means he didn't even watch Pervert's Guide to Ideology. Incredible lack of research.
4) Peterson did not stick to his position that Marxism was bad, instead retreating to a simple repetition of his individualism (at one point admitting that the heart of the individualism leads to the position that you must do what is best for the community anyways "good enough for you/your family isn't enough" which basically recasts JP's position as individually enlightened Marxism)
5) Peterson hasn't read Critique of the Gotha program which is shorter than the Manifesto and much more important (reminder this intellectual has been arguing against the evils of Marx for decades and hasn't even read him in any meaningful sense since he was 18).
6) By the end, Peterson wasn't even able to formulate an argument against the form of Marxism which Zizek promotes. His only point to the debate which had any relevance was to point out Capitalism's productive force, a fact that he also admits Marx agrees with and discusses at length in the Manifesto.
7) Peterson being pressed on and subsequently not able to name a single postmodern neomarxist needs no explication.

Peterson has been exposed as someone who has no real education (or perhaps intellectual interest) in political theory. I am actually amazed there are people who watched this debate and think Peterson managed even the bare minimum of understanding of both Marxist theory and the historical realities of capitalist dynamics.

the goddamn level of autism it takes to spam this dumb pasta on a board where nobody even likes the guy you're epically btfoing

can't you think for yourself instead of pasting irrelevant shit somebody else wrote in a thread where it makes no sense, can leftists do anything else than repeat like parrots stuff they don't understand?

I would like to hear a "pure" Marxist argue their position. I would be willing to read a book from one that would argue the position clearly and ideally one that would be recent to be able to criticize failures.

Zizek openly supports immigration and open borders. The point is that he thinks we are also the ones causing the things that lead to people leaving their home

the point was that he said 'the reports of refugee violence are true'. You're not allowed to say that even if you frame it as ultimately Europe's fault.

The logical answer to this is that helping third-worlders by giving them access to wealthy countries is more important than trying to push for labor reforms, because these countries are directly responsible for their poor living conditions. The wealth of these countries rightfully belongs to the Third World, and the Left should invite them to come and take what's theirs.

That’s a surprisingly respectable stance coming from people like this.

>because these countries are directly responsible for their poor living conditions.
doubt.png

It's just taking Leninist/Maoist theories of imperialism to their logical conclusion, which for Europe/US is "Come and take revenge on me, I deserve it." They do deserve it but for very different reasons.

If we are directly responsible for their poor living conditions, then the solution is develop that countries infastructure.

so called third worlders, would act same as greedy west if they were in position. this is irresponsible thinking.

He’s explicitly stated that he’s against open borders. Have you ever listened to him.

only because he thinks this currently only strengthens the right wing, not because he is opposed to it as a project as long as it's done slower and in a proper way

Peterson shills on suicide watch

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>believing anybody thinks Peterson is not retarded
how are leftists so clueless? Peterson and communism both lost the debate, this is transparent to anybody with eyes and ears

Pretty sure it's only in the short term. Once we reach communism it becomes a basic right

That's why I called them shills

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>If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/

I don't think "right" is the proper word. Obviously there there is no border under communism and no reason to have any since many of the reasons causing mass immigration are gone. There -should- be only limitedl movements of individuals causing few problems where they go Yet, even under communism, if for some random reason you have a mass movement of people from one place to a place inhabited by others the latter will still kick the former out if they are a nuisance.

What are the police in communism? Is this even a question i want to ask

>Philosophical discussion can go on either Yea Forums or /his/, but those discussions of philosophy that take place on Yea Forums should be based around specific philosophical works to which posters can refer.

we are literally talking about authors in philosophy

Local communal militias for the most part i imagine. You don't have much crime related to property (theft...) but you'd still have crime of passion, retards breaking things for fun, violent drunkards and the like to deal with.

no, we're talking about jacobin

Why wouldnt there be theft?

The far right is ironically more tolerant (towards it's own members) than the far left

I said less, not none.

/pol/ fag here. That's not true. Maybe on the moderate right, but I am pretty much a reactionary and I am starting to hate white nationalists more then the left. These people refuse to work with you towards a common goal (even if you agree on all matters of tradition and degeneracy) simply for not hating the jews or not buying into their "scientific" racism, calling everyone even a milometer to the left of them a shill. Purity spirals exist on both sides and it makes me want to kill myself or distance myself from politics entirely.

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WAAA THE LEFT IS ALL ABOUT OPEN BORDERS AND WHINGING TRANNIES NOT PLANNED ECONOMY OR DEMOCRATIC CONTROL OF THE MEANS LOOK SOMEONE ON TWITTER IS CANCELLED IF YOU WERE A TRUE COMRADE YOU'D DO YOUR BIT AND IGNORE CLASS STRUGGLE IN FAVOUR OF LGBTIQXUIUSDFO+ LATNX TRANS FOLX STRUGGLES FOR HIGHER REPRESENTATION IN THE NEWEST STAR WARS MOVIE

how did lolbergs become even more retarded lmao

Left vs right.

A load of horse shit.

The system i see as the best way to control ppl is better than yours!

Implying control ever creates any good.

yeah... man...like FUCK the system dude.

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there is nothing to be done about it. A lot of people have realized this throughout history. I find Nock very comforting on this subject

So you reject what you consider major flaws of modernity but you embrace modern notions of racial egalitarianism? How does that work?

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I embrace radical individualism. Everyone is equal before the law and that's it. Still, social norms regarding gender and equality need to be turned back to the year 1900 or before. Basically: Gender differences actually matter and social consutrctionism is evil in that regard, but getting hung up on racial differences is pretty fucking autistic. If you want to continue the white race, go find a qt white nationalist gf and have like 20 kids. I want my kids to be white too, but I am not going to dump the potential love of my life because of gene pool autism like: "sorry love, I'd like to spend the rest of my life with you and have many children, but I just don't ugly mongrel kids, k?" Yeah, not gonna happen. If black people have lower IQ because of genetics I don't really care, it doesn't matter in the end.

Lol youre a fool. Whats funny is if you saw me irl, the image you have of me rn would not match your categorization of basedboyz.
>theres nothing to be done about it
I agree, we dont need to do anything. People try to control the uncontrollable and that creates more problems.

But could you recommend sometging from Nock to me?

when youre a freshman

a lot of people just can't deal with racism, antiracism is too deeply ingrained, it's quasi religious. And it's a very uncomfortable set of facts, because while the races clearly differ in average cognitive ability, we are all human, and we are all able to communicate with each other, and in the West we live in multicultural societies where we interact all the time, and this knowledge is just incredibly awkward. Even if you are sensible and don't judge individuals by their group, everybody considers race part of their identity, whatever they might pretend, so any unpleasant facts about your race affect you emotionally. And if you're not an asshole then you don't want to make other people feel bad so even talking about or being aware of this is hostile.

That is just for people who can entertain the thought in the first place. Your average progressive or conservative in the West literally can't think bad things about minority races. This is not hyperbole, I was raised as one of these people and they literally can't think a racist thought, their mind simply shuts it off, because they know on a primal level that being labeled racist is a death sentence socially.

Lol the people running the govt are all freshmans.

That's fine, I agree that gender norms and such stuff is more important, or that being so hung up on race as to reject someone because of it is retarded.

That being said, just because you can judge people individually regardless of their race doesn't mean you have to ignore the group characteristics of different races. "Just go have white babies lol" is true but evasive, it doesn't address the problem of white countries being filled with non white peoples, or the great difference in their birth rates.
And it's not all IQ, it's much more than that of course, but it's fucking retarded to fill your country with low IQ populations and say "it doesn't really matter in the end".
All of this not even considering basic traditional knowledge such as the fact that homogeneous societies work best for everyone involved.

>because while the races clearly differ in average cognitive ability
Like I said, it does not matter. Also the black white IQ distribution is pretty close. Randomly picking one white male and one black male, getting a set where the black man has a higher IQ than the white male is not THAT unlikely. White nationalists pretend that the two bell curves are much further apart from another than they actually are.

>because they know on a primal level that being labeled racist is a death sentence socially.
People call me racist all the time when I unleash my hot takes, but I don't give a shit because I don't judge people by the group they belong to (unless they are leftists). Not to mention that high IQ doesn't make you a good person and vice versa.

nice word salad

>if you saw me irl
you do realize this is a image board, right user? if you wanted to placate the burden of proof, you could have easily uploaded a pic of yourself, but I guess that assumes that you weren't bluffing, which of course you were
Besides, looks aren't important anyways. it doesn't matter what people look like, what REALLY matters is if they are cringe Reddit-tier radical centrists who deny the inevitability of political authority and control, who are too absorbed in their own self-righteousness and desire to feel above everybody else, rather than actually engaging in political thought and making a rational decision concerning personal beliefs.

>it doesn't address the problem of white countries being filled with non white peoples, or the great difference in their birth rates.
I know, which is why I am radically opposed to immigration. If those immigrants only had children with whites or were actually integrating into society it woudln't be a problem, but we westerns are too weak and foolish to demand assimilation sadly. I'm actually pro immigration on a theoretical level, but the way it is done makes me want to build a wall around the Mediterranean.

> but it's fucking retarded to fill your country with low IQ populations and say "it doesn't really matter in the end".
I don't think there is enough research on that topic because of the current political climate, but what if those "low IQ nigger genes" are actually recessive rather than dominant? White nationalists always assume that white genes are recessive and that non white genes are dominant for some reason.

>Short post with basic words
>word salad
u w0t m8

>Also the black white IQ distribution is pretty close
Lewontin's fallacy?
>high IQ doesn't make you a good person and vice versa.
Sure but that's missing the point, see my other post. Ultimately culture derives from biology (so race is important in this regard), and you don't really see radical individualism in non European societies, quite the contrary actually

White nationalists are not very honest about race differences, they lose their shit over East asian IQ for example. And they're primarily a political group, so they care more about power than being honest, even though theyre a fringe with little chance of ever succeeding at anything.

You may not care but you're probably not typical

To add to the IQ question, is a nigger with IQ 110 inferior to a white person with IQ 100? Does the nigger pollute the gene pool because his genes will have latent negative effects on the IQ of his ancestors? Is there any evidence for this? It just seems like confirmation bias on the part of racial autists.

basic words to obfuscate an even simpler point

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It's not inferior/superior... You're looking at in the wrong way

>Ultimately culture derives from biology (so race is important in this regard)
See, that's were we just can't be friends. How did you come to that conclusion? I feel like this type of argument reduces the human to a "sack full of genes". Very positivist or scientistic rather, don't you think?

It's also more than just IQ

That was just polemics m8. Just answer the second part of my question.

>because his genes will have latent negative effects on the IQ of his ancestors
This is in fact a real thing, it's called regression to the mean.

As for inferiority, I don't think IQ is a good way to measure a person's value, but the 110IQ black is in some sense superior to the 100IQ white.

There is also more to race differences than IQ, but other behavioral traits don't have the same kind of studies behind them.

What else? Morals? I don't see how those aren't universally present in all humans. Something something Kant.

psychopathy for example, or aggressive behavior. Im sure the distribution of these two is different in different races, and that it doesn't just track IQ

>it's called regression to the mean.
Now show me this holds true in genetics. A direct ancestor is different from taking a second random sample. This argument strikes me as rather dishonest.

Compatibility, comfort. People generally like to hang out with their own kind.. Realistically Ethnostate wouldn't be forced or 100 percent white per say, it's something that woe should work towards.... Of course, only blacks benefit from multiculturalism, so they'd be inclined to keep it

This guy will be 1488 and speaking German in a year if he keeps hanging out here. You’ve taken the first step, son. See you on the other side.

why suddenly everyone is needed to be well read in "marxism" if its some piece of shit dated philosophy unappliable and that no one in their sane mind would adscribe to?

its like coming out to defend ferously phrenology in the mainstream, when neuroscience exists. and, guess what, even phrenology has actual correlate to reality.

Yes there undoubtley would be an effect. Black genes and white genes are completely different because of the geography from which they were from. It's like a penguin from the North pole being forced to the South Pole and being forced to mate with penguins there. The genes are insufficient there, so it'll make the species weaker

There are studies about this for IQ, I don't have any on hand, but I'm not trying to be dishonest here, I just remember reading it at one point. Someone who is an outlier in IQ for their ethnicity will tend to have children dumber than they are.

Men are aggressive in general and aggression by itself is not a bad thing per se. Also again, recessive or dominant? Will a mutt child be as aggressive as his black dad or what? Genetics isn't that simple.

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It's in the Charles Murray book

>we need a "real marxist" not this relic who opposes immigration
WTF HOW DID MARXIST BECOME THAT BASED

>The genes are insufficient there, so it'll make the species weaker
The conditions under which those genetic differences developed are radically different from today. Our entire modern life is antithetical to they way we evolved. Also why do you assume mixing those genes would make them weaker, aka combining the worst of both worlds? Why not the best of both worlds, why not something in between?

You speak a lot of words, but dont have a lot to say. Can you tell me why I should engage in political thought?

I'm not sure I understand your IQ questions, maybe I'm a low IQ nigger myself. The thing is that, population wide, they have a lower average IQ by, what, a standard deviation? That's quite a lot, but again it's not wholly about IQ.

And this is what I mean about IQ not being the only (and probably not even the main) factor. East Asians seem to be much less individualistic and creative in their thought, more rigid.
In any case let's say we're arguing about white nationalism, that is white countries. This is also a reactionary viewpoint, a return to what was. Nations used to be mostly heterogeneous culturally and ethnically, except for polities like empires which got pretty unstable due to tensions. Even if whites or Europeans were the most idiotic, incapable people of all, why shouldn't they have a right to their homelands, or to care more about their own people?
I don't hate blacks or other races, for example the plight of blacks in the US is pretty sad, they were uprooted and they have no fucking idea about their ancestry beyond whatever negroes came in the boats.

Leaving race aside, would you agree that culture derives from biology? For example, gender norms being derived from the natural differences and dynamics between men and women? If not, why do you want to return to traditional gender norms, when it's all cultural?
If yes, don't you think race, simply being the broad categorization of different peoples with certain characteristics and differences, would also enter into the equation in some degree?

Sorry I think I wrote too much shit.

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I didn't say aggression was a bad thing, just that I find it reasonable its distribution would vary by race.

As for racemixing that is quite complex, because genes interact in strange ways. with IQ the mixed child will on average actually be between the iq of the two races, there were studies done on this, I think the Minnesota twin studies. But as you mention genetics are complicated so it isn't so simple to predict.

Because most people are not the best of their species, most people are average and mediocre, so conceivably it'd be the worst. Exceptional people are rare. Furthermore, the average person's impulses would be contrasted so greatly they wouldn't know what to make of themselves. take an Indian and an African. Indians are generally more obedient, whereas Africans are savage and barbadic. The juxtaposition of impulses would inevitably lead to problems. How can you not see this?

To the first part, you literally just explained why depression is rampant and in spite of physical conditions being better, people are statistically much unhappier.

because political thought is a reality of everyday life, unfortunate or otherwise, that nonetheless permeates every aspect of personal and social identity, it's really as simple as that. You can try to artificially construct a sense of yourself and your identity or the society you find yourself in based on a rejection of political thought's intrinsicness to everyday life, but said artificial construct will be just that, artificial; hollow and essentially just a cope. Buck up, engage the world, and make the best of a bad situation.

>political thought is the reality of everyday life?
Are you so sure? Wouldnt you say that the idea that you should be engaged in political thought because its a part of everyday life, is also artificially constructed?

What is your idea of reality?

The castigation of anyone not "pure" enough in their leftism/socialism as a Blairite/liberal/Thatcherite/neoliberal is just the newest, most embarrassing form of what the left used to do when they described any non-Socialist as fascist (or inevitably leading to fascism)

>would you agree that culture derives from biology?
Not necessarily, that's too deterministic for me.

>For example, gender norms being derived from the natural differences and dynamics between men and women?
Yeah, but those are the same (or at least similar) in all cultures. The differences between men and women and how we think about them culturally are INGRAINED in our biology, but the race bullshit just isn't (probably). Men being men and women being women is beneficial for procreation based on mutual attraction. I just don't see how race is something evolution came up with out of necessity rather than chance based on geography, while gender is literally the basis for sexual reproduction. Sexual dimorphism is much much older then racial differences. The differences between men and women are so so much deeper than phenotype IQ or aggression.

In general, culture is how we as autonomous individuals (with free will) deal with the hand we were given by nature, and I don't believe that the hand given to niggers is that different from the one given to us.

What's your solution to that? Please don't say primitivism. Anything that isn't hunter gatherer is a affront to our biology, but agriculture just works too well. I don't think nuking us back into the stone age is a good idea. That's throwing out the baby with the bath water. Same difference when talking about the industrial revolution. I love to larp as an una bomba neo luddite as much as the next guy, but it's not solving anything to bitch about something that can never be undone. The genie is out the bottle, and now we have to deal with anything that it entails.

Cringe

>Anything that isn't hunter gatherer is a affront to our biology,
Until gene editing or complete neuroscience allows us to fix our brains this problem can't be solved.

Nice argument, friendo.

why do you type like a frustrated sissyfag?

Cringe.

>redditors on my lit

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I don't go to reddit. I had an account there back in 2011, but that was like a year after I ended up on Yea Forums.

stop replying to yourself

>Not necessarily, that's too deterministic for me.
>Men being men and women being women is beneficial for procreation based on mutual attraction
You contradict yourself here. When I say that culture derives from biology this is exactly what I mean. I'm not at all saying that "it's all genes, environment barely matters", rather that it's a feedback loop in which one affects the other and, biology being played at much deeper levels and at a much larger timescale, it's the very base of culture, and you agree yourself when you talk about men and women. It's just a matter of degree, if differences between men and women are much deeper than phenotype IQ or aggression like you say, that doesn't mean the latter don't still hold true.
If sexual reproduction is the most important factor in our biology, and most of our biological reality is associated with that very fact, the same holds true for culture, where the majority of our cultural environment has to do at some level or another with reproduction, primarily of the species and secondarily of culture itself.

Turning it upside down, if environment matters (and it does of course), why would it not affect our evolution over large enough timespans? Not large enough to make blacks and whites different species altogether, but enough to make them noticeably different in behavior at large.

>Anything that isn't hunter gatherer is a affront to our biology, but agriculture just works too well
Well yeah but an agricultural/pastoral lifestyle is much more attuned to nature and similar to a hunter gatherer lifestyle than life in an industrial society.
>but it's not solving anything to bitch about something that can never be undone
Nah nigga it's coming down and fast

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Wow! Peterson is a Fox News commentator lvl. huckster and Zizek is a Marxist hologram who in leads leftists astray.

This is news...

10/10, post more often

>What's your solution to that? Please don't say primitivism.
Well I’d suggest a return to the natural augmentation of the world depending on race/ethnicity, but that’s impractical. I don’t particularly have a solution, I just think this is what we’ve become and hope next humans won’t make the same mistake, but don’t care. I can only do what’s good for myself in the one life I have.

I really had a great time arguing with you, didn't experience something like that in a long while, but it's almost 6 am and I really need to go to bed, so instead of actually engaging with your replay, you're just getting this shitpost:

>Nah nigga it's coming down and fast
t. club of rome. You sure you're not a leftist?

Aren’t all liberals pessimists at this point? They think the world is ending and it’s our fault. They hate capitalism even though it’s the most successful economic system. They’re obsessed with race and gender, two things they have absolutely no control over even if they think they do. Nationalism is spreading because it’s optimistic while globalism tells us all to go fuck ourselves and submit to people who insist they know better when they don’t. Looks to me like liberalism is just fatalism for the delusional. They need to go back to religion more than they can ever know. Don’t they realize their utopia is bullshit? Fuck artificial intelligence and all that crap. Who needs it if everyone’s gozing to be a miserable self righteous SJW with no real purpose in life other than to bitch, complain and berate?

Likewise, I like calling people faggots and being called a retard, but it's good to have an honest discussion from time to time.

>t. club of rome. You sure you're not a leftist?
Nah, I've discovered that there's such a thing as right wing environmentalism and I've never felt so right at home ideologically speaking. If you're interested I recommend this video, maybe these guys are too "racialist" for your tastes but their takes are good. youtube.com/watch?v=4mxX-jD9Qr0

Good night (morning?)

Good post

I get your take, but what if your fatalistic outlook on our culture and environment, how everything is going to go to shit within a few decades is alarmist bullshit based on bad data and a shit ton of bias? Like, the left has been screeching about this type of doomsday scenario since the 1970s and things actually got better for the most part. How is your "impending societal collapse because of degeneracy and automation" any less loony than a leftist rambling about "late capitalism"?

>Looks to me like liberalism is just fatalism for the delusional. They need to go back to religion more than they can ever know. Don’t they realize their utopia is bullshit?
How low does your IQ have to be to see religion as more realistic and necessary than socialism?

I could always be wrong, sure, I don't have religious certainty on this apocalyptic view of the world. But almost.
My reasoning is that there's too much entropy on the system at a lot of levels. On the environmental side of things, I know what you mean, and I still don't know what to make of climate change as a social phenomenom. There's certainly something political there. But climate itself aside, even if we've made some technologies and processes "greener", the pollution is alarming, just consider the issue about plastic in the oceans. Destruction of environments, desertification and an ever growing demand for all this because apparently economies and populations have to grow indefinitely.
That's not even considering the depletion of resources, oil which is essential for a shitton of things in our modern lives, and other resources which are close to peaking or have already peaked. (youtube.com/watch?v=0HeEHKJxSA8)

Environment aside there's too much instability in other areas. AI is gonna be terrible, however that turns out. At the very best it's not gonna be much more advanced than it is today and it will only replace some jobs like with driverless cars. There's political instability in most of the west at some level or another, closely related to economic and social instability, closely related to cultural/racial tensions due to multiculturalism. Degeneracy and social degradation like you say, for example more and more young men are having little to no sex in the west, due to a variety of factors. That's extremely dangerous for the stability of any society. Add to all this that our world is globalized, everything is interconnected.

Shit's fucked yo, we're going against the laws of nature in many different ways, and we're gonna pay for it.

What’s the difference?

Religion is closer to socialism than you think bud.

How low does your IQ have to be to see socialism as more realistic and necessary than religion?

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religion seems to help people a lot more than socialism

Ebic witticisms
That’s baseless and irrelevant, believing in magic is not comparable to believing in one real life political system over another.

socialism is not a real life political system, socialists barely even agree on what the definition of it is, but it has never actually existed in a meaningful way in modern society.

>Religion is just magic
wewerino

What the fuck ever you disingenuous tryhard, you know the difference between espousing a political system and believing in magic, shut the fuck up. God I hate pseuds.

> why don’t they agree with me? I can’t defend myself, so I get angry Nd they must be wrong
You’re the pseud, moron.

If the political system is a fantasy for people who have no spiritual understanding and are using it as a replacement for their repressed religious thirst then no there is not much of a difference.

Try out some general optimism for a day just for shits and giggles. Just sayin.

Socialist all agree on what it means, you just don't know any and get all your ideas about socialism from people who use it as a bogeyman without even a basic familiarity with its core tenets

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You responded this to a post where I’m literally defending myself, you have zero reading comprehension and absolutely nothing to add.
lol ok

>Socialist all agree
Biggest lie ever and you know it m8. They can't even agree on which countries are socialist or what the end goal is

that guy has been whining nonsensically in the wings the whole thread

I'm pretty optimistic about my own life, just not about the world at large.
Also not an argument :^)

Cope

>lol ok
This doesn't work so well when your post can't be upvoted by your friends, try actually saying something

This is a good and thorough refutation of the "open borders" position from a left perspective, for anyone who's interested:

soundcloud.com/whatisleftpod/open-borders

Don't respond if you haven't listened to the whole thing. It's annoying hearing the same tired arguments over and over again.

Fuck bro

is this supposed to count as an argument?

Too lazy to dig up quotes but I think you're projecting. He's explicitly said in the past that he thinks it's a problem when immigrants overtake the parent culture. Yeah.

It’s not worth it, it’s absolutely common sense that, again, espousing a political system is not comparable to believing in magic. When I say this you should be nodding your head, even if you’re religious and believe in said magic. It shouldn’t be contentious. First you were going out of your way to be obtuse, now you’re blithering metaphysically about “spiritual understanding” and using socialism “as a replacement for their repressed religious thirst” lmao you’re not to be taken seriously.

I AM SILLY

I'm not religious. If your desired politiical system blatantly contradicts all examples of human society then it is psychologically equivalent to a desire for heaven.

If you don't want to engage with people who disagree with you then just go to a site where you don't have to, or stop replying

>If your desired politiical system blatantly contradicts all examples of human society then it is psychologically equivalent to a desire for heaven.
Wow if only that were all religion entails, that would be so convenient for your argument. Yes, an afterlife is literally all I mean when I say “magic”. You’re very simplistic when mischaracterizing me, very deeply metaphysical and verbose when obfuscating and pontificating for yourself.
>If you don’t want to engage with people who disagree with you then just go to a site where you don’t have to
That’s not what’s happening. You’re trying to frame it as if I don’t like disagreement in general to preserve your ego. It’s specifically you, it’s specifically that you’re either disingenuous or retarded, that you’re uniquely a waste of time.
>or stop replying
Sure! I won’t again.

Not the user you're replying to but your attempts at sounding wise only work to show how little though you've given any of this.You exist in a political society, politics affect your life wether you like it or not. You can close your ears and shout really loud but political thought is what determines how much you are paid, how you move from point A to point B, who has the right to take your life and so on.

>The logical answer to this is that helping third-worlders by giving them access to wealthy countries is more important than trying to push for labor reforms, because these countries are directly responsible for their poor living conditions.

If this is your position, fine, just don't try to present your moralistic guilt complex as Marxist. Marxism is about appealing to working people's class interests, not telling them to sacrifice their quality of life and collective bargaining powers to a more downtrodden demographic. This is also literally the argument that neoliberals and conservatives made for abolishing the minimum wage.

/pol/tards just can't stay on topic, can they?

>psychologically equivalent
You clearly missed this because you can't read. The tone of your speech makes it clear you're a passive aggressive faggot who hates having to argue, you think an argument is supposed to end when one person says something snarky and is echoed by a bunch of sycophants.

You also can't understand that magic means supernatural, which denotes impossiblity, which applies to your literal religion, the most common follower of which is an illiterate peasant who is promised utopia by cynical profiteers.

eat a dick on your way back to chapotraphouse

>why shouldn't they have a right to their homelands, or to care more about their own people?
Because they themselves didn't think indigenous peoples all around the world had a right to care for their homeland, you fucking dolt.
>oh but they lost fair and square
and so are you, you fucking anglo-saxon pile of genetic trash

What's the point in arguing with someone attacking a strawman?
You think that being a socialist is someone who identifies as a socialist. It isn't, but that's the only way your argument about the supposed disagreement between socialists on the definition of socialism could make sense.
There's no point in arguing with you about the herring in your head. Socialism has had a very clear definition among socialists for a very long time.

you shouldn’t have responded to him to begin with newfag, going back and forth with every retard clogs the thread. he’s unironically arguing that socialism is just as fantastical as the magical fairy tale elements in religion, that’s when you do like gif related and move on.
i swear if this place had profile picture at least a quarter of these retarded responses wouldnt get the time of day. the anonymity is both a blessing and a curse.

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>i swear if this place had profile picture
It's like pottery

i don’t want it to, i’m saying if it did. that’s obvious.

>Socialism has had a very clear definition among socialists
There is no official socialist group you child, there are different people who claim to know what it is

>i swear if this place had profile picture at least a quarter of these retarded responses wouldnt get the time of day. the anonymity is both a blessing and a curse.
True ass shit, I think about that all the time.

Yeah, I guess words don't mean things, and making up your own definitions is equally as valid as the one everyone else is using

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Socialism is in fact more fantastical than religion, metaphysics are an open field, nobody knows what consciousness is, but every single human society has show extreme hierarchy that precludes the very possibility of socialist fantasies.

It is much less ridiculous to think you may be reincarnated, or go to heaven, than to think society one day might be classless and stateless

you don't even understand that the meaning of a word is defined by the usage of a particular group of people and you think you have something to contribute. Absolutely embarrassing

Socialism isn't a stateless, classless society, but don't mind me carry on sucking your own toes

stop, don’t encourage him

That's literally what you're arguing. The definition of socialism IS defined, and has been defined for more than a century.
It doesn't mean whatever you want it to mean just because you can't comprehend it.

this

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>The abolition of social classes and the establishment of a classless society is the primary goal of anarchism, communism and libertarian socialism.
hmmm

words gain meaning through context? what a brilliant observation you made, user! are you a phd, perhaps?

You’re a dog, you’re inferior and forcing people to say you’re equal still makes u a bitch.

The goal of agriculture is having food to eat, therefore eating at Denny's is agriculture

>and forcing people to say you’re equal
Is that what you think Marxism is?

interesting. seems like theirs a critical word missing in your post. wanna take a guess as to what it is?

lmao yeah posture harder anonymously you cringy retard

They're not just inferior, they're so fucking inferior that they can't even succeed on their leftist sites and have to come to Yea Forums to spout their drivel. They're the trash of trash

lol youre so much of a pussy you need to be surrounded by people who think just like you or else you get triggered af

You seem insecure.

really because I dont mind at all that you come here and embarrass yourself but im sure your home site would ban any dissent immediately

Yea Forums is a leftist board
Enjoy your stay

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why is every black country, every black city, every black minority in every city, universally shit?

Why is there not a single example of black people not being shit?

>you come here and embarrass yourself
how do you not see that everyone thinks you have the worst takes and is laughing at you? you’re literally so dumb that the only user who was generous enough to engage with you had to give up just as soon lmao

nice

brave and incisive

you and your three homosexual friends are do not matter, you are incapable of presenting an argument

>you and your three homosexual friends are do not matter
Well that are do convenient much.

no answer I guess to why every black population is garbage

Why would you choose to come hang out with four big gays?
You looking for something?
Maybe we can help you out?

No that’s what socialism is

most people on Yea Forums before 2016 skewed hard libertarian left, people only assume it was right wing because of the racism (the majority of which was ironic). r/the_donald literally funneled tens of thousands of right wing redditors into /pol/, and the rest is history.

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you could say something of value, but i doubt you will

...

Virgin islands

why is every black population on earth shit?

Then you must be hanging around is for something more physical, yeah?

>It took two people to write this article.
>Both limousine liberal Manhattan locals.
Fuck you OP for thinking this was worthy of a thread.

Ill just refer you to thisPresent a reason that all black populations are garbage

This is a little silly. Realistically, "workers owning the means of production" is inevitably going to amount to the means of production being owned by the state governed by a vanguard party or a revolutionary cadre. Narrowing defining "socialism" in such a way that they have to somehow own it directly allows you to avoid all responsibility and pin every historic failure of your ideology on "state capitalism" or whatever. It's a lazy get out of jail free card, and if anyone else pulled this shit (libertarians, for example), you'd call them out.

I'm fine with social democracy, as it has a track record of success, and really, this is what any non-autist is talking about when they say they want "socialism". People are excited about Bernie and Corbyn, not some unhinged Twitter Leninist. They want something like Norway or Sweden, not the USSR.

babby’s 1st /pol/ visit and now he thinks he’s a fullblown esotericist bc he knows about iq lmao

so many things make sense now...

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Why should the workers own the means of production when most of them are replaceable and useless. They follow a guideline to build something. Furthermore, there’s hardly anything produced in most people’s occupations

so you don't have a reason that every black population is shit?

It’s because they’re uncivilized genetically

dude how do you browse Yea Forums without knowing how to troll

let me show you how to troll

> i like big black cock in my ass any takers?

there have always been faggots on Yea Forums, you're not particularly interesting

... i literally gave it in the second post you (you)’d, you consistent genius
you’re not an intimidating intellect with special knowledge, everyone knows about iq. ppl have been ignoring you because you’re a laughable basic bitch, but you think it’s because you done a gotcha lmao

so you're a leftist that admits that black people are inferior? Do you say that openly?

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When workers do not own the means of production, they are not entitled to the full product of their labor. This is both exploitative and inefficient. It creates a parasitic rentier class of monopolists who do no work yet are paid a toll on all work that is performed. The returns on exploitation tend to decline however. This is known as the tendency of the rate of profit to decrease. In turn, the managerial class must either exploit more from the workers or create greater externalities, like climate disaster, in order to maintain the same rate of profit. The market cannot adjust for this collision course precisely because the inherent contradictions of the market system are to blame.

i need a number huney, and you better have a big one

the workers cannot own the means of production, it has never happened, and is incoherent

go back to your shithole

Slow down old timer, don't want to pop your ol' ticker. Remember not to post your reddit username on here, you might get bullied. Here's a meme from the long long ago before your kind got here, maybe you will get a kick out of it
youtube.com/watch?v=t3uAdC6xkEY

it was literally how it was for most of history. try harder faggot

I wont though, and you will, because you can't bear to see people say things you disagree with

you’re a MAGAtard tier intellect that thinks Marxists are radical egalitarians. yes, iq exists. no, it doesn’t effect Marxist plans. yes, the majority of leftist Marxists know every bit as much as you about your oh so taboo talking points.

so again no reason that back people are universally shit?

This tells me the only economic theory you’ve read is Marx, you’re attempting to restate him as precisely and autistically as possible, and you don’t understand what you even said and cannot think for yourself. That’s literally all moral gibberish. You’re arguing urbanization is bad essentially

bu-bu-but niggers! they smell and THEY MAKE ME FEEL BAD ABOUT MY MICROPENIS

name one Marxist publication that talks about race differences. just one.

lmao but bro do you even into iq bro tyrannosaurus wrekt

Since civilization first emerged the workers were oppressed by a ruling class. Every single society

we don’t talk about it because we don’t care, retard. knowing about it doesn’t equal caring.

How does this exploitation affect u in your day to day life. Don’t give me that climate change crap u probably know nothing about lol

id trade my iq for a nigger dick

in my ass, that is

So there is not even one marxist publication that talks about race differences? Marxists just secretly know it while openly deferring to race politics?

I can't help that you don't understand my post at all if you don't point to precisely what you didn't understand.

MLK was cool

Well maybe you should care. What the fuck Is even you’re goal

I didn’t even read your post. It was frivolous, pedantic, and juvenile. It seemed like a literal rehashing of communist propaganda verbatim

we secretly know about it and openly don’t care. talking about it only empowers the far right. iq differences aren’t an excuse to Other.
Communism

How convenient. Marxists are bitches to race politics, a black woman tells you to jump and you cower

How will that have any impact on day to day life. People will just be more comfortable

the goal is to eliminate all white people because they are v oppressive. fuck em all

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No you’re just weak and frivolous.

whatever race you are is trash compared to white people, that's why you're speaking a white language on a technology invented by white people

black people are gorgeous, magnificient queens and kinga. i would do anything a black woman told me to do

nope, like I said, you’re a MAGAtard who doesn’t know the difference between Marxism and college campus SJWS. you consistently and inaccurately mischaracterize us as the latter.

When you're terrified of the eternal science of Marxism-Leninism so you try to derail with the race card

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Id be a Marxist if the undergrad marxists I go to school with actually read anything

>White language
Kek you are american right?
>White technology
You mean japs and chink right?

actually im speaking my own language all these words you are are pronounced in a black way, bitch

this, every time

You should've listened to Zizek during the debate

What is the science? Launch a revolution at an inoppurtune time, die, then have a midget successor fuck everything up and make the country speciously strong

name one Marxist publication that doesn't bend its ass for race and gender politics

im going to fuck you white boy, make your mom pregnant and dirty your gene pool, ensuring white genocide

Zizek said he was a Hegelian not a Marxist

What is the reasoning behind those who claim Marxism was invented in order to subvert Occidental civilisation?

blessed image

I'm not american and if you're going to list another race for technology it is Jews not whites.

I (almost) had a university professor who used to contribute to this magazine. He taught modern Japanese history and 80% of the syllabus was Marx and people writing about Marx. He was also, unsurprisingly, a communist.

I’m not white, so I don’t care. You’re still pathetic though

based retard can't understand sniffman

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>I’m not white, so I don’t care
Aw, he’s ashamed

Jews are white

damn that was fast, went back in time fucked your mom and now you not white. white genocide strikes again

Yeah as u should be too

Reddit

xD you got me ok guys he got me dont worry yall

this thread is an amusing example of reddit tier people trying to take over Yea Forums

it just never works. all you have to do is say something that is forbidden on their sites and the conversation implodes because they can't even think the thoughts let alone properly address them

>be Zizek
>be Marxist
>Set up debate with Peterson, agree to defend Peterson
>be Peterson, too smallbrain to realize you can have more than one philosophical influence (muh Jung)
>become bewildered when he deviates from Marx even the slightest bit
>Peterson actually asks him why he's not a Zizekian (what?)
>Zizek tries to explain that his philosophical project is a re-Hegelianized Marxist Communism
>...
>so you're saying you're not a Marxist?

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I think we can safely declare that the M-L’s won this thread, and decisively. MAGAtards get more and more embarassing.

you’ve been getting BTFO all over the thread dude shut the fuck up lmao nobody is even taking you seriously

>MAGAtards
the right are not particularly a fan of a boomer who cucks to Jews and feminism

lmao what a cishet straight white male you are. why dont you f off and take a nap, ok, sweetie?

lmao bro Im sure Yea Forums tomorrow will be totally communist, you've definitely made a difference tonight in this thread, and nobody will ever say bad things again

you sound scared

>cishet
it is cute when genetic abominations try to act like they aren't repulsive filth

the left are not particularly giving a fuck what the right are particularly particular about

every black population is still garbage, trannies are still pathetic freaks, communism will always fail, and that is still going to be repeated over and over as long as you stay here

this is patently false. There has always been a power structure, a state, or ruling authority.

im repulsive filth but at least i know the pleasure of a woman

not when i go camping with me and 5 of my friends. that shit is commie af

yes sex is nice, you think this makes you not an embarrassing fuckwit? You're a retarded prole

thats what people sound like when they are impotent. "girl, i AM going to FUCK you with my BIG, HARD, COCK. i HOPE YOURE READY. ITS COMING. JUST YOU WAIT"

do you disagree that every black population is garbage?
Do you maybe have an example of one that isn't?

fine, but at least toss the Nazi flag out of your room, you’re scaring your mother

Im not a nazi my petulant scared friend

yeah. the black population of kanye wests house. greatest civilization known to man. 4 grammies. 15 different concubi. basketball court. 3 olympic swimming pools.

Hm. We’ll decide that. When the time comes.

one black man who rose to prominence in a white society is your example of a successful black people?

yeah you’re a basic bitch paleoconservative with no comprehension of anything left of Clinton, we know

Why do the Finns, Baltics, poles, various Slavs, Norwegians, Icelanders, Irish and so on deserve to be punished to what anglos did?

also, barack obamas america.

or is america not the greatest country in thw world? checkmate

you won't decide fuck all, if the people you're aligned to ever do gain power you will a little sideline bitch forgotten and stepped on like the irrelevant scum you are

Literally the Virgin Islands disproves you imbecile

fucking lol I am not a paleocon, you reddit tourists have no idea how to deal with people who are just interested in reality. your're ten years late, you should have gone reaction or tried to enter Muslim Black Feminist agitation.

Whatever you're doing now is a loss

project harder

the virgin fucking Island, MOVE THERE YOU STUPID FAGGOT,oh no you wont because they're retarded niggers

omg lol is it an ancap? its an ancap isnt it lmao

no not an ancap keep guessing

I can only imagine how dumb your suppositions are, and your reluctance to share them

you’re not a Nazi, you’re not a Trump supporter, you’re not (“fucking lol!”) a paleocon (still laughing at how offended you are this suggestion). what are you? purely conformist?

god youre so thirsty for (you)'s arent you you little dirty slut

>haha they’ll never guess my neckbeard ideology, that’s how enlightened I am
yikes

hey user you like white people? WHY DON'T YOU MOVE TO MOLDOVA YOU STUPID FAGGOT,oh no you wont because they're poor and dirty

you are literally too dumb to understand a worldview that isn't based on praxis

i'd have empathy but at this point it's just pointless

>I can only imagine how dumb your suppositions are, and your reluctance to share them
What does this even mean you unbelievable cringetard, who the fuck says something like this lmfao this dude has me rolling

faggot

So you are a marxist now if you care about your community?

lmao dude has me- you are deeply unhappy aren't you, you can't fuck any of the girls you want to, and none of the men you know respect you, you're just kind of flailing in the hope that it might work out

It won't, because youre a faggot, and you'll smashed in the head just like faggots used to be

what did big black nigger do to your girl, mate?

damn thats a nice get

You are literally such a tryhard that you unironically responded this. You don’t have an ideology because you don’t know politics lmao, say it like it is.

Im still open to hearing an argument about why evey single black population is shit

Surely you have one argument

you need to stop resorting to projection all the time, it’s awkward when you’re so open about yourself. we’re just having some fun pooh bear, don’t kill yourself.

you’ve been answered by multiple leftists, do you have dementia or are you even dumber than I thought? how many times do you have to be told this isn’t a gotcha? how many times do you have to be answered?

refer to this postwhy do you praise minorities when they are garbage

do you have an example of a single black population that isn't shit? Because i havent seen one

impressive

refer to this post we’ve answered you multiple times. stop spamming.

so no example of a black popluation that isnt shit

once again you lose

do you think that proves you’re worth something?

your socialist state will never happen

what's more you have to stop talking about it if black people tell you to, and they are literal retards who you can't point to a single success story

you are delusive retards cucked by subhumans and you can't argue an inch about any of it

>you are delusive retards
lmao how are you real

Wow strawmans are so easy to beat up, you intellectual heavyweight

lmao how have you literally no argument at all

youre probably some little faggot who lives to be accepted by your gay worldview

good sarcasm you fucking faggot, go try to start a revolution you pathetic fuck, im sure it will work

oreng man bad

you keep telling people they have no argument, have you ever stopped and considered whether you’re worth one? if I tell you the earth is flat and will never be round are you going to write me a dissertation about why I’m wrong? you’re dumb and painfully cringy, I’m laughing at you, not debating you

The Third World are the working people in Third-Worldism, First Worlders form a labor aristocracy and oppose the class interest of the Third World proletariat.

Don’t break anything, it’s ok.

and yet you keep responding

youre an ugly piece of shit who tries to push his repeated ideology on a platform where it can't be criticized

what's not ok is that you're repulsive to every person who has ever seen you, that's not going to get better, that's why you believe in an ideology that is going to change everything

>Marxism can't be criticized
Welcome conrad

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of course I keep responding, I’m literally assless right now from laughing so hard and the more I nettle you, the more you reveal about yourself via brainlet projection, as we see
>youre an ugly piece of shit
you keep thinking everyone here is as pathetic as you and that insults that would touch you to the quick will do the same to us. it’s so deliciously vicariously embarassing, it’s like watching the office.

>that's why you believe in an ideology that is going to change everything
Whoa unexpectedly based

you have never fucked a hot girl, it's pretty apparent, you have to lend yourself to thedictates of mediocre women to enter into any kind of relationship

the office will probably help you as you fall into sluggish nothing

I genuinely don't know why they even assembled the debate in the first place. Peterson basically stated that he was unprepared. His logic was sound in his beginning critique but it was not at a caliber I would expect for a debate like this.

OP here. btw im everyone in this thread

what you have just seen is the epitome of debate in our time. if what you have just witnessed frightens you, well, it should. retarded men should not be allowed on the internet, and that is a fact. it is not only dangerous to themselves but also, as you have just seen, incredibly sad and disheartening. if you believe this shouldnt happen in todays america, you can donate to my presidential campaign at secure.actblue.com/donate/bern-site?refcode=splash-top-right thank you, and goodnight

post a pic, Chad

>you have never fucked a hot girl

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What the fuck OP was Jordan Peele all along???

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waiting

im not remotely chad, im a mentally ill ex pretty boy who has fucked very hot girls before my mind fully fucked me,but even after that i still attracted them until i became wholly broken

the people on this board are retarded about women

>MAGAtards

most of the people mocking your open borders bullshit are leftists

unbelievably based. you are the chemo curing lit

>He's explicitly said in the past that he thinks it's a problem when immigrants overtake the parent culture
i doubt that, Zizek hero is Malcolm X, because X means that he has no roots, which opens up the space for a true universality or something like that

so he seems to love the idea of rootlessness

Can confirm. I'm bald now

more like retarded

the chemo is a humorless, anti-intellectual, right wing talking point spouting whiny baby who doesnt know how to troll? fuck, just give me weed and ill take my chances with cancer.

>Jacobin
please archive the link, so anons don't have to visit that website.

LOL ITT a physically and socially repulsive “communist” who wants to win an “argument” — the ultimate societal cancer irl — probably still lurking just to get another (you))6

7