Nietzsche on Islam, from "The Antichrist"

Nietzsche on Islam, from "The Antichrist"

>Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down ( I do not say by what sort of feet ) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life! The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very "senile." What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich. Let us put aside our prejudices! The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more! The German nobility, which is fundamentally a Viking nobility, was in its element there: the church knew only too well how the German nobility was to be won . The German noble, always the "Swiss guard" of the church, always in the service of every bad instinct of the church but well paid . Consider the fact that it is precisely the aid of German swords and German blood and valour that has enabled the church to carry through its war to the death upon everything noble on earth! At this point a host of painful questions suggest themselves. The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious. Christianity, alcohol the two great means of corruption. Intrinsically there should be no more choice between Islam and Christianity than there is between an Arab and a Jew.

Attached: 1555298529855.png (1286x644, 1.2M)

Other urls found in this thread:

bbc.com/culture/story/20150910-courtesans-and-street-walkers-prostitutes-in-art
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Often it is asked--no, rather it is stated that Islam is antithetical to western civilization. This is a statement of tremendous gravity, for if it is true then Islam and the west are necessarily mortal enemies until the day one or the other perishes.

So we should begin by qualifying the question. What is meant by "western civilization"? If it is pic related, then yes, Islam is antithetical to it. If it is gambling, interest, secularism, materialism, pornography, alcoholism, or anything fundamentally haram, then yes, Islam is antithetical to it. But I believe these are not western civilization, I believe they are simply viruses western civilization has become afflicted with and now propagates.

To look at the foundation of western civilization, what defines it, we must examine its point of origin, antiquity. The Greeks. Now there are two principles to what made the Greeks the Greeks: their art and philosophy (also mathematics, but I leave that alone as it could be replicated by many peoples with sufficient study). There is no little overlap here, but I will start with Greek poetry and drama, which is supposedly the heart of western civilization, yet totally antithetical to Islam. Is it really more "foreign" to Islam than to the west? I don't think so, not if by the west we mean slave morality. The Qur'an holds it as halal to take enslaved captives as concubines, (although such concubines have some rights in Islam), to wage war, to collect tribute. While most Muslims do not support or participate in such practices, they are not considered evil, but if done they must be done according to Shariah. Slave morality could never really understand the values of Homeric heroes, we can tell this because a common slave morality criticism of Muhammed is that he was a "warlord", as if being in the vein of Nobunaga and Agamemnon is to be despised rather than admired.

Moving to Greek philosophy, I will look at the two most enduring reprrsentatives, Plato and Artistotle. In both of their philosiphy, Tawhid has far surer foundation than the Trinity. The Trinity can only be articulated as three specimens of one category (Tritheism), or a blatant violation of term logic. Neither Plato nor Aristotle would accept Tritheism, and certainly they would not accept a violation of term logic. However the names of Allah, His attributes, fits in neatly with Plato's theory of forms, perhaps even better than Augustine's theology.

Any questions?

Attached: 0-0ch9rxo1.jpg (1280x720, 167K)

Muhammad was a thief, a sperg, a pedophile, a liar, and - worst of all - an Arab. Islam is a shit log from the Devil's asshole, and the Quran is his toilet paper.

Gas yourself.

OP is a lying sandnigger.

Why do you make this thread like every other day?

Because jannies almost always delete any discussion of Islam not prefaced by this excerpt of Nietzsche (even if Nietzsche's works and the works of others are what the OP discusses), I actually was banned for posting a Qur'an thread once, and those are almost always deleted as well.

That's because /his/ is the religion board. If you want to discuss Islam so badly, go there.

If in general, I do. For Islam related to specific writers and philosophers, or the Qur'an itself, I come here.

I posted

islam is based whether you like it or not

Al-Sikander the Great

Pic related is an interesting piece of historical fiction directly related to what you're talking about, OP

Attached: 0896DB64-8D4E-48EE-BEF4-611218976C87.jpg (1213x1875, 1.52M)

-Philosophers aren't historians.
-Nietzsche wrote this based on outdated and wrong XIX century historiography.

pork, alcohol, music, dogs and plastic arts are all inherent to western civilization, while they are either forbidden, or considered impure and harmful in islam.

YES WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS SEVERAL TIMES A WEEK FOR NEARLY A DECADE ALREADY

Thanks


The Qur'an speaks highly of dogs both in a narration of their vigilence and approval of using them to hunt as halal.

Music is mostly permissible except among Salafis. Degenerate music including degenerate dance rhythm (and dancing in general) is prohibited, and that does include most popular music, even the Beatles, but Mozart, for example, is mostly halal.

Prostitution used to be a major part of western civilization, even to the extent of being a major source of models. Truth is you overestimate how important vices are.

>Prostitution used to be a major part of western civilization
It was never looked upon positively.

/pol/ is leaking again, that's sad

/thread

Leaking? How brand new are you? /pol/ has completely taken over this site and it's no accident, certain interests actively promote radicalization here.

>user is overestimating vices
No such thing. Opium war was carried out for tea; multiple religions of sacred whoredom the world over; luxury of excess in Rome to the point of seabattles in stadia, with ships, live crew and casualties, at public expense.

You can't write off vices like their impact isnt yuge.

>Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization
False. It's the only thing that preserved It.
>>later also... mohammedan civilization
No such thing
>Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin because it said yes to life
What is this even.
>The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very "senile."
Did he know that muslim actually invaded europe? That for 500 years europeans had be on the defensive and trying to reach a compromise with the mudslimes while the latter laughed, massacred and raped everything on their path?
>The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more!
Reprehensible particularly considering that muslim pirates making the mediterranean routes dangerous was number 1 reason for the impoverishment of southern Europe.
>The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious. Christianity, alcohol the two great means of corruption.
Litteral drooling retardedness

Why is this guy even considered relevant and talked about In literary circles? He's a total brainlet.

wtf i love sandniggers now

Taqqiya.

Reddit.

Damn, you convinced me, better cut off my foreskin and worship a giant black cube in the dessert while following to the letter the teachings of a ginger merchant-pedophile.

>>/pol/ has taken over
The exact opposite of truth. The four epicenters of Yea Forums culture are Yea Forums, /pol/, Yea Forums and Yea Forums. Everyone ELSE is a containment board.
What you call /pol/ taking over is the effect of your raiding ass finally being called out.

Based

Attached: _81577467_buddhas_pair.jpg (624x351, 70K)

new historiography demonstrates that the Islamic Golden Age and Al-Andalus are myths, some schizo who hated Germans and thinks Andalucia is closer to our senses and tastes than Rome or Greece is not correct

That was a short thread

This

There's no point in making threads like this.
Yea Forums is filled with brainlets of each political variety.

Such as? Have you critically read and studied such historiography?

Such as you.
Look at yourself lapping up anti Catholic protestant propaganda from the 1500s recycled by idiot schizophrenics untill now as It was some new revelation.
Making It your own, as an """""atheist""""" lol

>schizophrenics
projecting

Yes it was, cultured courtesans were often the only "intellectual" females in antiquity, and they fullfilled something of this function again during the Renaissance up until the widespead crackdown on prostitution. In the artistic and intellectual circles of 19th Century Paris, prostitution was considered very glamorous and interesting.

bbc.com/culture/story/20150910-courtesans-and-street-walkers-prostitutes-in-art


Their power over junkies is, but their cultural sway is often overhyped. To give an example, cigarettes were once memed as a major part of western culture, western culture without cigarettes was practically unthinkable.

You lack an argument and know that your favourite manlet-philosopher has no actual intellectual value beyond intellectual self stimulation for teen boys.
Spread more salt.

seething

”There's a single Western Civilization" is the real meme here.

There is not but there is something of a common soul

if Islam is so good and western society is so bad then go move to bum fuck desert and Butt jack camels and goats, dumb faggot nigger
stop using the Internet

>Powerword:seeth

Today's programme has been sponsored by the words Incel, neckbeard, wagecuck, and the letter U.

foaming

>Cultural sway is overhyped
Cultural sway is part of commercial sway; a continuum.

When 80-90s cop/crime movies kept showing blow (bloodinbloodout, scarface, american nutter), plus sex-drugz-rocknroll meme, the IRL consumption followed, and today cocaine is still being memed as a rockstar drug. Continuum, not discrete.

lel you got me

Yes although whatever product placement, either literal or figurtive, is pushing is seen as a lot more important than it is, that is what product placement is supposed to do. If you had to pay to masturbate, it would get plenty such treatment.

Cannot confirm first point.

File bankruptcy by age 18 for second point.

*Has psychotic break down and dies from syphilis after seeing an italian whip a horse*

Ahh, yes, the ubermensch

>be pol
>be stupid
>be protestant
>think head scarves are exclusive to islam
>doesnt realize they are a facet of abrhamic religions
>doesnt realize catholic women have to cover thier head when they enter a church

true Christian knows that they shouldn't attend church

Baby torture has yet to show positive effects. Until then, it's a prison for the human psyche, soul and body.

Didn't communal worship occur in acts?

>alcohol
is almost certainly the main reason we have civilisation in the first place. humans stopped being roaming bands of nomads when they discovered that certain plants made you go a bit funny when turned into a drink and they could be cultivated annually

This lol

Nomads and herders had alcohol, people didn't commit to agrarian lifestyle for it

I unironicaly agree. It also made unperishable or nearly so calories reserves and made the age of exploration easier since it didn't matter How filthy your water Reserve got You could add some Rum and thus travel farther and without hugging the coasts.
Another reason Why Neeetch sama was a retard and his endorsement of the sandpeoples is risible.

>>think head scarves are exclusive to islam
obviously they're not. my mother used to wear a headscarf straight after she got her hair done to stop it blowing around
however, threatening to ostracise or beat women if they don't wear one is pretty exclusive to islam

>>doesnt realize catholic women have to cover thier head when they enter a church
they don't

...Because they bought it from agrarian people. They surely didn't have the infrastructure to make their own.

>Nomads and herders had alcohol
rudimentary alcohol can be made in a variety of ways but if you want nice wine and beer you need fields and vineyards which need tending all year round

>they don't
Yes they do, It's just that since CV II some bishop decided that making people actually follow the rules was against the principle of compassion; and since Then gays are receiving communion, thots are entering in Church naked and Notre Dame burned down.
They will understand that God is displeased When a few of them will be trasformed In salt statues I guess.

idiot

>seething because he knows I'm right

>i know the mind of god and by some strange coincidence he agrees with my idiot opinions about everything

They made it from milk or gathering

Nobody committed to the extreme toil of farming for beer lol, farmers didn't get nearly as much meat either.

>They made it from milk
the scythians apparently did this. the rest of the world did not
the earliest alcoholic drinks were made from wheat and barley, just as they are now.

> (You) #
>They made it from milk or gathering
Not enought of them. Proof: there are many more distillates, wines and beers than all the other kind of alcoholic beverages combined.

First I'm talking about What are the rules of catholicism and Why people don't follow them anymore. You can go be outraged about the arrogance of St Paul If You don't like that.
Second: It's no coincidence: i just submitted to him and he made me Catholic pretty much despite my preferences.
If It turns out that I was wrong all along Then he lied to me.
Do You think that's possible?

Look in the epic of gilgamesh how Enkidu was made human. With 8 liter of ale.

>the mind of a non believer

Choose wisely

>( I do not say by what sort of feet )
What did he mean by this?

So the archetype of the savage man, the Green man that lives nomadically amongst the animals and shares of their strenght, was rendered civilized by the products of architecture and the love of a woman.
Interesting perspective.

Agriculture
I'm tired.

God in Islam almost never speaks directly to people (not even Muhammed), He rather sends angels, like the burning bush or so forth. He can guide you, but if you think He is "talking" to you directly, be wary.

Never said he was "talking" to me as in i was eating voices.
I Just was into eastern religions years ago, and one day, since people continued to tell me I was making a mistake I sat down and prayed and said
"look God, You know I'm searching for you, for truth. If You exist in a personal way as my Christian friends say, If I'm walking a wrong and deceitfull path despite that I believe that I'm walking one of the many correct Ones, please guide me out of it. I submit to You, to Truth. Dont let me be deceived."
I won't tell the details but three months later I received the sacrament of confession.

or it could just be that it was all in your mind

Earing, obviously

I suppose it could.
But it wasn't.

yeah it probably was though

Nah, it most assuredly wasn't.

Does Islam have a Meister Eckhard? Does it have anything analogous to the church fathers? Does it have anything like the timeless wisdom and knowledge of the Kabbalah? Did it have the harmonious and divinely inspired music of the church organ? Does it have someone like Kierkegaard? Did it produce any saintly person, other than men who engaged in plunder and rape? Did it produce a John Scotus, a William of Ockham or a Thomas Aquinas? Did it inspire a Michelangelo, a Da Vinci a Raphael, a van Eyck or a Botticelli? Did it inspire men to create buildings like the majestic Gothic cathedrals or the Hagia Sophia?

No its barren and produced nothing but misery and inbred goatfuckers.

Attached: 1550677387934.jpg (1024x860, 155K)

>I will look at
are you giving a presentation lol
Kick the formality ur on Yea Forums buddy

Ibn arabi is comparable.

There aren't really any church fathers since there is no church.

The closest thing are the imam of the hadith collections, the madhabs/legal schools, theology and other fields like Quranic recitation who are considered the authorities of their "sciences"

>Does Islam have a Meister Eckhard?
It has Sufism


>Does it have anything analogous to the church fathers?

Doctrinal champions? Yes

>Does it have anything like the timeless wisdom and knowledge of the Kabbalah?

Meme tier, but yeah, some Sufis go overboard in reading everything as esoteric symbolism

¡Did it have the harmonious and divinely inspired music of the church organ?

Bach is great but let's face it, contemporary church organ music is crummy, the Islamic call to prayer and melodious reading of the Qur'an is way more powerful than "One Bread, One Body"

>Does it have someone like Kierkegaard?

I think a lot of Kierkgaard is a reaction to Christendom being devoid of any firmly religious lifestyle, which distressed him. The thing is that Islam still has its original practice intact and mainstream enough that exorting people to follow it is the doable task of the imam, not the dismal task of a man cut off from society.

>Did it produce any saintly person, other than men who engaged in plunder and rape?

Islamic ideals are more master morality, not Christian ideals of being poor, weak and a virgin. But there were ascetic pacifist Sufis if that is what you mean, they just are not held as paragons among many besides that order.

>Did it produce a John Scotus, a William of Ockham or a Thomas Aquinas?

Scholasticism literally came from Islam, The Study Quran is a good one if you want Islamic Medieval theology in that vein.

>Did it inspire a Michelangelo, a Da Vinci a Raphael, a van Eyck or a Botticelli?

But Christianity hardly produced that. Michenangelo was a homosexual, Raphael painted nudes of his mistress. These men's art was not particularly Christian, they just used Biblical subjects sometimes same as pagan. Islamic calligraphy however is very religiously motivated

>Did it inspire men to create buildings like the majestic Gothic cathedrals or the Hagia Sophia?

The Dome of the Rock? The Taj Mahal?

>inbred goatfuckers.

Boomer tier

The Church is the Christian equivilant to Ummah

As a muslim I'm scared that if whiteys embrace muslim they'll easily be at the top of the game with little to no effort considering how dumb (almost) everyone is in this side.

>Scholasticism literally came from Islam
>It originated as an outgrowth of and a departure from Christian theology within the monastic schools at the earliest European universities
fuck off pedo rapist enabler

>The Taj Mahal?
massively overblown vanity project that nearly bankrupted a state

The ummah isn't some kind of ecclesiastical authority with priests etc.

Ummah is equivalent to christendom, only an abstract notion of the greater Islamic nation.

Attached: Happy-white-Muslims-300x200.jpg (300x200, 18K)