Hello friends and brothers. Might we have a thread on Buddhist literature to expand our horizons on this great...

Thank you,user. Good post.

The books provided in this guide: are recommended for basic understanding of Buddhism in it's early form as well as meditation.

The Dhammapada is a book of aphorisms, not exactly the place to go for meditation instructions.
Try the Anapanasati sutta, or the Satipatthana sutta.
For more, check out the books in the chart:
Books like The Mind Illuminated (secular book written by a laymen but deeply rooted in Buddhist tradition) go into incredible depth that it'd be hard to not know what to do.

*layman

Depends on what kind of meditation you want to do
If you want to do tranquility/concentration meditation, the idea is to be able to keep the attention fixed on a single object (ex: the breath) continuously for long periods of time, thus creating feelings of joy, euphoria, bliss, and eventually equanimity as byproduct of concentration.
If you want to do insight meditation, the idea is to be able to perceive/analyze non-conceptually as clearly as possible, as many sensations as you can possibly perceive that appear in your sensory field (or in the six sense doors, sight, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling, thinking) as they arise and pass away.
The other anons who have suggested the books in the chart are giving good recommendations, though for meditation after awhile it gets tough to keep progressing just from staying at home and doing it solo, and it is very helpful to get instructions from a monk eventually (free).
Also underdeveloped morality and virtue is a massive hindrance to meditation and pretty much caps how far you can get. That is good to keep in mind.

>worshiping a fat china man
Come on lit.

Scripture is no More than Waste Paper.--
The Scripture is no more nor less than the finger pointing to the moon of Buddhahood. When we recognize the moon and enjoy its benign beauty, the finger is of no use. As the finger has no brightness whatever, so the Scripture has no holiness whatever. The Scripture is religious currency representing spiritual wealth. It does not matter whether money be gold, or sea-shells, or cows. It is a mere substitute. What it stands for is of paramount importance. Away with your stone-knife! Do not watch the stake against which a running hare once struck its head and died. Do not wait for another hare. Another may not come for ever. Do not cut the side of the boat out of which you dropped your sword to mark where it sunk. The boat is ever moving on. The Canon is the window through which we observe the grand scenery of spiritual nature. To hold communion directly with it we must get out of the window. It is a mere stray fly that is always buzzing within it, struggling to get out. Those who spend most of their lives in the study of the Scriptures, arguing and explaining with hair-splitting reasonings, and attain no higher plane in spirituality, are religious flies good for nothing but their buzzing about the nonsensical technicalities. It is on this account that Rin-zai declared: 'The twelve divisions of the Buddhist Canon are nothing better than waste paper.'

No Need of the Scriptural Authority for Zen.--
Beyond all doubt Zen belongs to Mahayanism, yet this does not imply that it depends on the scriptural authority of that school, because it does not trouble itself about the Canon whether it be Hinayana or Mahayana, or whether it was directly spoken by Shakya Muni or written by some later Buddhists. Zen is completely free from the fetters of old dogmas, dead creeds, and conventions of stereotyped past, that check the development of a religious faith and prevent the discovery of a new truth. Zen needs no Inquisition.

sacred-texts.com/bud/rosa/index.htm

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7. The Awakening of the Innermost Wisdom.–Having set ourselves free from the misconception of Self, next we must awaken our innermost wisdom, pure and divine, called the Mind of Buddha,[1] or Bodhi,[2] or Prajña[3] by Zen masters. It is the divine light, the inner heaven, the key to all moral treasures, the centre of thought and consciousness, the source of all influence and power, the seat

[1. Zen is often called the Sect of Buddha-mind, as it lays stress on the awakening of the Mind of Buddha. The words 'the Mind of Buddha' were taken from a passage in Lankavatara-sutra. 2. That knowledge by which one becomes enlightened. 3. Supreme wisdom.]

of kindness, justice, sympathy, impartial love, humanity, and mercy, the measure of all things. When this innermost wisdom is fully awakened, we are able to realize that each and everyone of us is identical in spirit, in essence, in nature with the universal life or Buddha, that each ever lives face to face with Buddha, that each is beset by the abundant grace of the Blessed One, that He arouses his moral nature, that He opens his spiritual eyes, that He unfolds his new capacity, that He appoints his mission, and that life is not an ocean of birth, disease, old age, and death, nor the vale of tears, but the holy temple of Buddha, the Pure Land, where be can enjoy the bliss of Nirvana.

Then our minds go through an entire revolution. We are no more troubled by anger and hatred, no more bitten by envy and ambition, no more stung by sorrow and chagrin, no more overwhelmed by melancholy and despair. Not that we become passionless or simply intellectual, but that we have purified passions, which, instead of troubling us, inspire us with noble aspirations, such as anger and hatred against injustice, cruelty, and dishonesty, sorrow and lamentation for human frailty, mirth and joy for the welfare of follow-beings, pity and sympathy for suffering creatures. The same change purifies our intellect. Scepticism and sophistry give way to firm conviction; criticism and hypothesis to right judgment; and inference and argument to realization.

What we merely observed before we now touch with heart as well. What we knew in relation of difference before we now understand in relation of unity as well. How things happen was our chief concern before, but now we consider as well bow much value they have. What was outside us before now comes within us. What was dead and indifferent before grows now alive and lovable to us. What was insignificant and empty before becomes now important, and has profound meaning. Wherever we go we find beauty; whomever we meet we find good; whatever we get we receive with gratitude.

>The Scripture is no more nor less than the finger pointing to the moon of Buddhahood.
The suttas would agree with you:
>Monks, I will teach you the Dhamma compared to a raft, for the purpose of crossing over, not for the purpose of holding onto. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."

>"As you say, lord," the monks responded to the Blessed One.

>The Blessed One said: "Suppose a man were traveling along a path. He would see a great expanse of water, with the near shore dubious & risky, the further shore secure & free from risk, but with neither a ferryboat nor a bridge going from this shore to the other. The thought would occur to him, 'Here is this great expanse of water, with the near shore dubious & risky, the further shore secure & free from risk, but with neither a ferryboat nor a bridge going from this shore to the other. What if I were to gather grass, twigs, branches, & leaves and, having bound them together to make a raft, were to cross over to safety on the other shore in dependence on the raft, making an effort with my hands & feet?' Then the man, having gathered grass, twigs, branches, & leaves, having bound them together to make a raft, would cross over to safety on the other shore in dependence on the raft, making an effort with his hands & feet. [7] Having crossed over to the further shore, he might think, 'How useful this raft has been to me! For it was in dependence on this raft that, making an effort with my hands & feet, I have crossed over to safety on the further shore. Why don't I, having hoisted it on my head or carrying it on my back, go wherever I like?' What do you think, monks: Would the man, in doing that, be doing what should be done with the raft?"

>"No, lord."

>"And what should the man do in order to be doing what should be done with the raft? There is the case where the man, having crossed over, would think, 'How useful this raft has been to me! For it was in dependence on this raft that, making an effort with my hands & feet, I have crossed over to safety on the further shore. Why don't I, having dragged it on dry land or sinking it in the water, go wherever I like?' In doing this, he would be doing what should be done with the raft. In the same way, monks, I have taught the Dhamma compared to a raft, for the purpose of crossing over, not for the purpose of holding onto. Understanding the Dhamma as taught compared to a raft, you should let go even of Dhammas, to say nothing of non-Dhammas."
MN 22
Obviously one will have to abandon the raft (the texts and the teaching) when they're about to fully realize the Dhamma for themselves firsthand and are at the point of crossing the water, but to abandon the raft from the get-go would be absurd, like trying to cross the great expanse of water on foot.

what's some good Buddhist fiction

>19. Much though he recites the sacred texts, but acts not accordingly, that heedless man is like a cowherd who only counts the cows of others — he does not partake of the blessings of the holy life.

>20. Little though he recites the sacred texts, but puts the Teaching into practice, forsaking lust, hatred, and delusion, with true wisdom and emancipated mind, clinging to nothing of this or any other world — he indeed partakes of the blessings of a holy life.
- Dhammapada
You need to know the teachings before you can put them into practice.

I also would like to know this.

Also, can anyone recommend any good books on political Buddhism? Buddhist advisers to kings/commanders and similar stuff to that. The Laws of Manu or Arthashastra for Buddhism?

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For "political Buddhism" all I know of is this
>“Your Majesty’s country is beset by thieves, it is ravaged, villages and towns are being destroyed, the countryside is infested with brigands. If Your Majesty were to tax this region, that would be the wrong thing to do. Suppose Your Majesty were to think: ‘I will get rid of this plague of robbers by executions and imprisonment, or by confiscation, threats and banishment’, the plague would not be properly ended. Those who survived would later harm Your Majesty’s realm. However, with this plan you can completely eliminate the plague. To those in the kingdom who are engaged in cultivating crops and raising cattle, let Your Majesty distribute grain and fodder; to those in trade, give capital; to those in government service assign proper living wages. Then those people, being intent on their own occupations, will not harm the kingdom. Your Majesty’s revenues will be great, the land will be tranquil and not beset by thieves, and the people, with joy in their hearts, will play with their children, and will dwell in open houses.”
- DN 5

If you'd like to learn more, I imagine there's probably a decent amount of material on King Ashoka, who was famously Buddhist, and took advice from the monks. One such work to possibly start with could be the Ashokavadana, but I imagine there is more.

bump

Anyone got more Buddhist and/or religious Wojaks? Shit's cozy

last bump for Buddhistbros

>still shit at jhanas

time to kms

I tried to meditate once. I was 'kicked out' of my body but not in terms of astrological pseudoscience shit, I just didn't feel it. However I was fully conscious and I felt like I was fleeting through the universe. After that I felt truly amazing, that was really great experience. Sadly, I never could get the same result again no matter how hard I tried.

The way to set the citta into samadhi, ie ''being concentrated'' is this

"For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.

"For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will, 'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises in a person free from remorse.

"For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture arises in a joyful person.

"For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person grows serene in body.

"For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a person serene in body experiences pleasure.

"For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.

"For a person whose mind is concentrated, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I know & see things as they actually are.' It is in the nature of things that a person whose mind is concentrated knows & sees things as they actually are. accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an11/an11.002.than.html

>yet if we continue to follow the Eightfold path
So you're a beggar?

>“Leaving aside Master Gotama, the monks, the nuns, and the celibate laymen, is there even a single layman disciple of Master Gotama—white-clothed, enjoying sensual pleasures, following instructions, and responding to advice—who has gone beyond doubt, got rid of indecision, and lives self-assured and independent of others regarding the Teacher’s instruction [stream-entry]?” “There are not just one hundred such laymen enjoying sensual pleasures who are my disciples, Vaccha, or two or three or four or five hundred, but many more than that.”
MN 73

Its not a meme. I had an experience (satori, samadhi, etc.). It was a really powerful experience. I felt like i was walking on clouds, i could hear everything and nothing. I couldnt stop smiling and seeing the beauty in everything and everyone. It lasted for several days and eventually faded back to my normal state. Though, I cant say im the same.

AlanWatts said that you cant meditate unless youre ready a buddha. And that meditating is just the way a buddha sits. I really understood what he meant by that.

sounds just like some kind of jhana.
Unfortunately experience-chasing won't get you anywhere and your disappointment at being able to replicate it has directly shown you 2 marks of existence: impermanence and unsatisfactoriness. Even deeply refined states of samadhi like Jhana are impermanent, unsatisfactory, and should be transcended, seen through.
>AlanWatts said that you cant meditate unless youre ready a buddha.
I don't subscribe to these sorts of Mahayana beliefs but doesn't that sort of contradict his belief in the inherent "Buddha-nature" of all beings? By distinguishing "only the Buddhas can meditate" as if there's others that can't.

Yea user this absolutely sounds like a Formless Jhana (absence of perception of body, perception of a sort of infinite nothingness and everythingness, ex infinite space, infinite consciousness, infinite nothingness). If you are just a dabbler and you found yourself in a formless Jhana that is pretty impressive and might imply that you could have some sort of natural meditative ability (perhaps due to a past life), and I would say that if you took up a daily disciplined practice (45m to 2h total a day) you might be able to get really far really quickly. Just remember thay even these jhanas, as transcendent and incredible and mind-expanding as they are, they too need to be transcended. They too are impermanent, conditioned, prepared, not-self, dukkha, unsatisfactory. The classic story in the texts of a monk reaching Nirvana is by going through all the formless jhanas and recognizing them directly as not-self, impermanent, conditioned, unsatisfactory, dukkha. Then the monk lets go of all conditioned phenomena (all experience, all existence, including any deep states of meditation, profound as they may be) and is left only with the unconditioned element: Nirvana. When this happens, the monk has reached the cessation of perception and feeling. There is no sense of anything. There is no experience of this "cessation" at all and it is only recognized as such after the monk comes back from it back into 'the world.' By doing this they have become either Arahants, Anagamis, Sakadagamis, or Sotapannas, meaning that they are either fully enlightened or partially enlightened, and on their way to full enlightenment.

what are you using to learn sanskrit

Anyone?

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user try dry vipassana for a bit and do half-and-half vipassana and samatha, it might make things better.
The goal isn't even jhana on its own anyways, jhana just makes it easier for the mind to process the insights gained in vipassana with equanimity so it doesn't destabilize your whole life.
The only other purpose is to use the jhanas mixed with vipassana to see them as impermanent, unsatisfactory, not-self one-by-one until you reach cessation, but that's rather advanced and requires a lot of skill in both jhana and conventional dry vipassana.

how could be reincarnation real? Its the most retarded religious concept, christians at least explain that going to heaven or hell is an order made by god. If earth body is destroyed and its parts devoured by other creatures to build their own bodies, why wouldnt it happen to soul, if we assume that soul exists?

Not a meme but it's probably not what you're thinking it is. Meditation has two parts, one is insight which is akin to natural thought, and serenity which is unraveling unwholesome thought so you observe the base consciousness.

There is no soul to be devoured. What you think is "you" or consciousness is an illusion constructed by various sense inputs such as sight with your eyes and memories in your brain. It is a direct result of cause and effect.
Reincarnation thus must be real because for every cause there's an effect and vice versa. It's less that a soul is being reincarnated and more that these sense inputs are constantly being created and thus the illusion.
If I'm not mistaken, it's less about reincarnation because there is nothing to come back and nowhere for it to come back to, and more the continuous cycle of becoming that is always occurring in the closed system of the universe that pervades all.

There is no soul that reincarnates in Buddhism. There is a continuity though, as the fuel for becoming continues to burn. A popular comparison is made to lighting an unlit torch with a lit one that is about to finish burning and die. Is it the same fire that is now burning on the newly lit torch? Hard to say yes but hard to say no either. The defiled, ignorant mind produces more karma, more seeds for becoming, through its clinging to the aggregates (form, feeling, perceptions, mental formations/activity, consciousness). Here I'll copy and paste an old post that explains what determines the way a being is reborn:
>To put it simply, rebirth is based around kamma, and kamma coincides with the conditioning of the mind. When unwholesome actions are done, the mind is conditioned to unwholesomeness, and it will be prone to unwholesomeness in the future. Unwholesomeness leads to intense suffering: this is evident in the fact that most gangsters and criminals are mentally ill and find that they need to take intoxicants all the time to operate. Wholesome actions condition the mind towards wholesome mind states. This is evident in the joy, calm and happiness one can observe in the lives of the most charitable, kind, simple folk they meet. Through kamma, actions condition the mind, and the manner in which the mind will exist in the future. This process happens moment-to-moment, here & now. Sensations arise, pass away, arise, pass away, according to previous conditioning. One can say the mind is being born and dying over and over with each moment, in the arising and passing away of every momentary experience. The different realms of existence from the hell realms, to the hungry ghost realms, animal realms, human realms, and deva realms can be represented by mind states here & now. As the Dhammapada says: "mind is the forerunner of all things," and the experience of a mind depends on its conditioning. A person who is a slave to their immediate instincts and impulses has a mind with similar conditioning to an animal, and so their mind (due to this conditioning) arises and falls into and from animalistic states. A wild killer who hates the world is conditioned to live a hellish existence, because the mind is conditioned to arise and fall into and from hellish states. In this way, the mind's rising and falling continues after death, according to conditioning. A mind conditioned to unwholesome and animalistic states will arise as an animal after death. A mind conditioned to wholesomeness, joy, loving-kindness and other heavenly attributes will arise as a heavenly being (deva) after death. The mind arises and ceases with every moment. Mind is the forerunner of all things.

Buddhism teaches rebirth, or continued births, not reincarnation. There is a difference, reincarnation implies a separate soul or self being reborn into different incarnations. Rebirth does not.

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I was the second quote, I meant rebirth rather than reincarnation. Was just using the original user's terminology.

You can also think of it this way; since matter is neither created nor destroyed, then at the start of the universe no matter how it was begun, the constituents of your body and mind were there and will continue to be even after their breakup.

The universe isn't a retribution system

No but the mind is

You seem to be mixing materialism with Buddhism, user. Remember, nothing can be said of the existence, non-existence or neither existence-nor-non-existence of any sort of 'objective' world outside of experience. All that can be spoken about is experience. Nothing can be said of anything outside of experience. Read The End of the World in Buddhist Perspective for more on this.

Karma isn't a force run by some external universe, it all occurs with the mind. Unwholesome actions condition the mind to unwholesome states which causes greater pain, more suffering. Wholesome actions condition the mind to wholesome states which causes less pain, more joy, less suffering.

Karma isn't a retribution system

then what is it? What is your definition of it?

Go on.

seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/The-End-of-The-World.pdf

Not my definition, Buddhism's: thoughtco.com/buddhism-and-karma-449992

This:
You will not be punished FOR your unwholesome actions, evil mind states, clinging to hateful emotions: you will be punished BY your unwholesome actions, evil mind states, clinging to hateful emotion.
Also this:

gimme books that are like sekiro

I understand now, thank you for the text.

Awesome! I'm happy to help out

What happened to those traditional threads we used to have?

I enjoyed the Islamic and Hindu content, but some autist had to shit it up every time

These Buddhist threads tend to stay separate from the "traditional" threads which discuss multiple other religions. I'm sure you'll see them continue to pop up around Yea Forums. IIRC the mods moved the last one to /his/.

and the christian system has no coherent answer for what happens to the entire animal kingdom when they die, or what happened to all the humans who died before christianity, or all humans who die before hearing the gospel...i'm not buddhist but systems like reincarnation/rebirth at least fit reality much more easily than the christian afterlife does

Miyamoto Musashi was a Buddhist.

How do I avoid feeling pride over doing charitable acts? I don't want to fall into the trap of the "holier-than-thou" attitude and I feel disgusted with myself for continuously harping on even the smallest act of morality.

Should I just direct the attention and label it until it passes? Any specific forms of meditation to address this? I'm already looking into Metta, though I'm have trouble figuring out how exactly the meditation is done.

>with few dudes
what did the Buddha mean by this

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Should be "with few duties" I think.

See: accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.1.08.than.html

>Be capable, upright, & straightforward, easy to instruct, gentle, & not conceited, content & easy to support, with few duties, living lightly, with peaceful faculties, masterful, modest, & no greed for supporters.

>How do I avoid feeling pride over doing charitable acts? I don't want to fall into the trap of the "holier-than-thou" attitude and I feel disgusted with myself for continuously harping on even the smallest act of morality.
This is the sort of thing you need to root out by just keeping yourself in check. It's a meme at this point to say "be mindful," but that's what you have to do. Be mindful of your mental states, recognize and catch pride as it arises, stop yourself from acting on it. The Buddha advised that people should give great praise to others' good deeds and speak minimally of their faults, and they should speak openly about their own faults, and minimally about their good deeds. Stay vigilant of your mind, learn to restrain your speech from unwholesomeness.
>Mettā
The way to do mettā meditation is to meditate with the Mettā Sutta as the object of meditation instead of the breath. Basically, settle your attention like in a normal breath meditation sit, and then begin to sincerely wish for the things listed in the Mettā Sutta. May all beings be free from suffering, from ill will, may they be safe, at ease. Holding the intention for this wish is the object of meditation. Maintain the intention. Many people like visualizing real faces, people they know in real life to mentally send loving-kindness towards. You can do close loved ones as well, but I find it really takes off when you start directing it to just neutral people you see everyday and hardly know: the cashier at the grocery store, the guy who walks down your street every other day, people like that. It is also incredible when directed towards people you have bad feelings towards. The ultimate goal of mettā meditation, however, is essentially to mentally send loving-kindness to all beings in existence, wherever they may be, big and small, seen and unseen, born and yet-to-be-born, none excepted, all at once. At first I can almost guarantee you Mettā meditation will feel contrived, but give it a couple weeks of daily practice and you will begin to FEEL it, like a pure warm glow of love in your body, usually the chest. Once you feel that, you can work growing that feeling and expanding it towards all beings until it encompasses your entire sensory space of experience.
For more on Mettā, on the mindset and approach to have and maintain towards other beings, I recommend The Deliverance of the Heart by Nyanananda:
seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Deliverance_of_Heart.pdf

It's also worth mentioning that a popular technique is to visualize the person's face as you direct loving-kindness towards them, to visualize them being filled with pure joy, peace, equanimity, loving-kindness as a result of you sending it to them.

Thanks user. I never speak about my own good deeds (except here, I suppose, in asking for help) but I do have the tendency to feel superior to other people because of moral acts. I tend not to act on the pride, but the emotional state colors my perception of others, to be more judgemental.

I actually just finished reading Deliverance of the Heart, and indeed that's where my confusion arose as it didn't have a direct set of instructions. Just reading through your description gave me that warm glow. I will try it the next time I sit and you'll be the first one I direct loving-kindness to, thank you very much user. May you be free from suffering in this very life.

If I may quote my favourite part from The Deliverance of the Heart:
>5. ‘I see no error made which I could not have made Myself’ *
>(i.e. given the same amount of delusion)
>An “antiseptic” for rash itchings and irritations that may come up while handling the suffering, erring, humanity.
>Symptoms: nausea, c-a-r-ping (not coughing), ‘holier than thou’ feeling, stiffness, righteous indignation.
>Contra-indications: Discontinue treatment if “self-pity” sets in.
>Directions for use: Just rub it in.
"I see no error I could not have made myself." Nothing has helped me more in avoiding judgement of others than remembering that phrase right there. Remember, there are no bad people, no evil people, there are ultimately only people who just don't see clearly. Unwholesome, unskillful actions are always fueled by delusion, no exceptions. They are dependent on delusion. Those plagued by unwholesome mental states and patterns of unskillful actions have dust in their eyes, they cannot see clearly. If you and I had the same amount of delusion, we would be no different.
I also greatly appreciate your kind words, user. I hope someday I can be free from suffering just as you say. May you be free from suffering in this very life as well.

bump

I believe that everyone has a buddha nature, but not everyone realizes this. It's a bit of a tautology
>to meditate like a buddha is to meditate like a buddha

I don't know if its related, but sometimes when I lay at night, I focus on my breath, and eventually I feel like I'm either really big (the size of a school building, for example) or really small (like a grain of rice). Or sometimes I feel like I'm stretched over a long distance in a random direction, like my torso is 100 meters long. At other times its just my hands, and I feel like they are the size of dictionaries.

Is there a name for that in meditation literature? A neurologist could probably tell me why it happens, maybe it has something to do with that liquid we have in our ears for keeping balance and spatial sense.

I've also noticed it never happens again the next day, even if I try. It's as if all the juice for it ran out the night before.

I guess he might as well say "only buddhas WILL meditate". They say you can't desire not to desire, the same way you can't think a thought that isn't a thought. And yet those states exist, but cannot be reached by active, willful states.

My understanding of "everyone has a buddha nature" is that you can't help but being a buddha. You're already doing it. Not being a buddha is like being outside the world, which doesn't make sense.

Although I watched that scene dozens of times I don't have a good answer. She was quite enchanted by Samsara, but I'm not sure if forgetting about everything and going to some deva realm (unless it was some Pure Abode) is desirable from the point of view of Buddhism. Human birth is considered to be most precious in Buddhism.
Do more Metta. Think more about your and others mental life in terms of not-self and Dependent Arising. I always try to think of others and my unwholesome acts as ultimately born of cause and effect under the influence of ignorance. Everyone wants happiness and a person with perfect virtue is content and happy, because he regrets nothing. I have hard time in believing in existence of deliberately evil people with working conscience, instead I believe that people doing unwholesome acts do them because of negligence, running away from/ being blind to things, delusions or being plain stupid.
Although your experiences might be more dullness related, look up 'pacification of the senses' in 'The Mind Illuminated'.

This thread may be the only place in the world I can complain about this, so here, anons. I submit this to your judgement:
thisisinsider.com/why-meditation-can-be-bad-2018-3

Perhaps it's a cautionary tale about beginning a meditation practice with no goal and no grounding in traditional wisdom, but I was deeply dismayed by it. It seems like a bald attempt to blame meditation for revealing to people that they lead meaningless, empty lives.

I've seen this articles. It is insane to me that the most common form of meditation that they are trying to secularize in the West, is Vipassana: INSIGHT MEDITATION! Can you imagine being a secularist with no grounding in Buddhist theory, accidentally gaining experiential insights into the nature of experience when all you wanted was something to help you relax? You'd think you're losing your mind! It is absurd to me that Vipassana is being secularized into "mindfulness meditation" and it doesn't surprise me that there has already been a suicide after a non-Buddhist went on a Goenka Vipassana retreat. I would sort of understand if they were teaching Samatha, though that can come with all sorts of things materialists might consider 'hallucinations' or loss of touch with reality, but that is at least closer to the goal of achieving calmness than dry vipassana is.

*these articles

anyone has any experience with Zen? Are westerner dojos memes filled with posers and lunatics?

Probably not all of them but I'd steer clear for now at least. Properly done Zen is very advanced and high-level stuff. Gain a basis in the early Buddhist texts firsts and then move onto the Diamond Sutra, Platform Sutra, and the Record of Linji afterwards if you still want to move onto Zen.

It seems like it all could have been avoided if Westerners had respect for the source of the wisdom they want to gain. I have spent years seeing little self-help books like "Zen in the Office", "Zen Marriage", "Buddha the CEO" and other pop lit garbage floating around in bookstores, and I was revolted by it, but I never even imagined that people would seriously harm themselves with these 'glittering' tools. It reminds me of the Greek notion of hubris.

Still, I want to cultivate compassion for them. You have calmed my anger. Thank you for sharing your perspective with me.

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the only truly based user on this board. this guy gets it.

The Sea of Fertility tetralogy by Yukio Mishima

I'm sure there are some good Zen monasteries in the west, but most of the notable American ones (SFZC is an example) have had sex scandals, or are associated with the sex scandal monasteries. They also seem focused on the fact that its Japanese and different rather than the teachings themselves. I'd generally stay clear of Zen in the west for now, but I could be wrong and there are a bunch of great monasteries, particularly in Europe because I'm only familiar with American and Japanese Zen.

another bump for a good Buddhist thread

Thoughts on this book?

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user, I'm the creator of the chart and I must say I think you are on the right path. You have a very solid grasp of these sorts of things. Reading and practice never ends but you are definitely on the right track. Keep at it!

Not as good an introduction as In The Buddha's Words or the suttas compiled in In The Buddha's Words. Read suttas instead, they're direct, understandable and straight-forward.

Westerners should just avoid Buddhism. It's cringy when they try to learn it.

Not everyone is an insecure, image-obsessed faggot like you.

reminds me of this
youtu.be/dvU9Zn4SqtU?list=PLXlK3C3jllBisoLFIIpK5TZfbiute8Yep&t=12

>listen to a podcast
>guest claims is enlightened
>rejects every form of dogma
>dogma_bad__myway_good.gif
>mfw he also went through like 10 years of dukkha nanas
not the only case I know, vipassana without theoretic grounding could be really dangerous

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no 2

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You're supposed to have a teacher, not read buddhism lmao. I guess this is true for all religions.

>lmaoposter

yikes

rofl

That's only the case for Vajrayana and other esoteric sects, and even then I doubt they'd discourage you from reading the Buddha's discourses.

bump

What if I live in an underdeveloped third world shithole?

>inb4 leave first, Buddhism later
I can handle both

He's wrong anyways, user.
Read the books in the chart, and if you have no access to a real life teacher, talk to one online. Some monks teach students online for free.
For example:
meditation.sirimangalo.org/login
Remember, suttas>all

How is this not just atheism?

Buddhists don't believe in a creator god but they do have a cosmology of heavenly realms, angels/gods, (who live and die like we do), hell realms, hungry ghost realms, which many atheists usually can't stomach. There is also a lot of stuff in meditation that many atheists doubt/think is just dogma and 'magical' thinking (ex. jhanas and formless jhanas, cessations...etc).

Journey to the West

Thanks.

Happy to help, user.

Viktor Pelevin. Especially his Buddha's little finger. But I'm not sure if you can get his message if you read the translation.

t. Russian native

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bump

Very good post. Because of my studies I come into contact with a lot of monks and you just somehow FEEL these people are different. I've also heard nothing but good things from Vipassana retreats. Excited to go on one myself.

Buddhism is above all a religion of action and rituals, not so much by reading. Read the absolute basics, don't waste your time with a trillion books, or if you do, make sure you meditate as much as you read.

No one mentioned Siddharta by Hermann Hesse yet? Damn Yea Forums. You can read it in an afternoon too.

Make sure you have a solid background on the theory behind Vipassana before you try it, or you might think you're going insane when insight starts to arise.
I don't know how true this is. Right View is the forerunner of the path. Lacking Right View holds one back from getting anywhere with the rest of the path. It is important to read and understand the deeper teachings (dependent origination, anatta, Nibbana, contact, name-and-form...etc).
>Bhikkhus, just as the dawn is the forerunner and first indication of the rising of the sun, so is right view the forerunner and first indication of wholesome states.

>For one of right view, bhikkhus, right intention springs up. For one of right intention, right speech springs up. For one of right speech, right action springs up. For one of right action, right livelihood springs up. For one of right livelihood, right effort springs up. For one of right effort, right mindfulness springs up. For one of right mindfulness, right concentration springs up. For one of right concentration, right knowledge springs up. For one of right knowledge, right deliverance springs up.
- AN 10:121

Also IMO avoid SN Goenka centers. The way they're operated now is weird and cult-like, and the volunteers are typically of no help at all, they usually seem to not have a clue what they're doing.

I'd just like to give some advice to those in this thread as a long-time seeker (and finder, in many regards).

Always trust your intuition above all else, and always read with discernment. If you're reading something, even if it's by a monk, a scholar, an 'enlightened' person, whatever, and it doesn't ring true, then don't take what you are reading as gospel. If it doesn't feel right, if something feels off, then trust that feeling. Trust your intuition. This is very, very important, because if you don't, you are most likely to end up in a place of extreme suffering and possibly even insanity. Buddhism is very far from a unified religion where everyone agrees upon interpretation and understanding. Translations themselves are hotly debated.

Monks disagree with other monks, scholars disagree with other scholars, 'enlightened' people disagree with other 'enlightened' people. So, read widely and voluminously, always read critically and with discernment, and always listen to your intuition above all else.

I would even recommend, if you get stuck in a rut, to read from other traditions to get more perspective. Read Hinduism (yoga), Tibetan Buddhism, Mystical Christianity (Christian Yoga), Gnosticism, Kashmir Shaivism, Kabbalah. This may be seen as heretical, but if you are true seeker, you won't care where you find bits of truth.

>I would even recommend, if you get stuck in a rut, to read from other traditions to get more perspective. Read Hinduism (yoga), Tibetan Buddhism, Mystical Christianity (Christian Yoga), Gnosticism, Kashmir Shaivism, Kabbalah. This may be seen as heretical, but if you are true seeker, you won't care where you find bits of truth.
this
based
also some shamanic teachings and psychodelics in an shamanic setting could be useful. Not an excuse for abuse though

I've met someone who gave me that feeling, too, it's legit.

This is a Buddhist thread and not just a general mystic/spiritual thread, so I imagine this is for those who want to realize the cessation of suffering (which the entire Buddhist path is predicated on) rather than realizing the "truth" for the truth's sake (though in Buddhism, realization and understanding comes as a byproduct of pursuing the path to the cessation of suffering).

final bump from me

it means that Nibbana is Just For The Guys

venerable dharmabump

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>realizing the "truth" for the truth's sake
but that's what i want
wat do

i asked this in the other thread too but i'll put it here also:

has anyone experienced satori/illumination/enlightenment/things like this? how did it feel? what brought it around? how would you characterize it? things like this.

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not describable

not perfectly describable, ok. but i mean it happens to some people, yes? transforms them? changes them?

i know it can't be put completely into words, just curious to know if people have actually had intense experiences like this before and what it was like.

en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Mystique_of_Enlightenment

I've only had first jhana
The description "rapture" is pretty accurate. My entire field of experience was completely enveloped in pure euphoric joyful bliss, and this was accompanied by an additional feeling of deep happiness and peace, as if the weight of the universe was lifted off of my shoulders, as if a deep thirst was finally being quenched.
That is all I have. Reminder that satori is a Zen term and most of the posters in this thread are not Zen as far as I can tell, so you might be hard pressed to find 'Satori' experiences. The only people on this board I've seen claim Satori experiences, are people who said it was achieved with drugs or without any relation to a regular contemplative practice/tradition.

ty user

and thank you also! i'm very intrigued in this idea.

The Jhana came unexpectedly, and only after about a year of very casual meditation. I began that sit and the mind was compliant immediately, very unusually so. The background chatter of thoughts was also minimal, and attention would not move from the breath. Many would call this 'access concentration.' At some point after only about 8 minutes, I felt like I was gonna laugh out of pure joy, like someone just gave me some life changing news and I was giddy. The feeling was deep in my chest. This was new, I never felt this through meditation before, so I brought my attention from the breath and directed it towards the joy/giddiness in my chest, and it absolutely exploded throughout my entire sense of being. Pure bliss and euphoria. It was like a feedback loop, with every second the euphoria got exponentially stronger and stronger, the bliss got more intense. It was absurd. After a couple minutes or so I was thinking "I don't know what to do at this point, I don't know what is happening, what if I end up in some deep territory I don't know how to navigate yet" and so I purposely got up from sitting and ended the Jhana. I only found out it was Jhana afterwards after consulting with fellow Buddhists IRL.

I suppose that leaves you more likely to explore what the user I was replying to was suggesting for people who are "truth-seekers." I'm not gonna tell you what to do one way or another, but I will say with confidence that Buddhism does produce wisdom and understanding of truth as a byproduct of its practice. Do with that what you will.

i understand, i was going to ask you how you knew it was first jnana or something else. quite fascinating user, thanks for sharing this.

>This was new, I never felt this through meditation before, so I brought my attention from the breath and directed it towards the joy/giddiness in my chest, and it absolutely exploded throughout my entire sense of being. Pure bliss and euphoria. It was like a feedback loop, with every second the euphoria got exponentially stronger and stronger, the bliss got more intense. It was absurd. After a couple minutes or so I was thinking "I don't know what to do at this point, I don't know what is happening, what if I end up in some deep territory I don't know how to navigate yet" and so I purposely got up from sitting and ended the Jhana.

that sounds like a very powerful thing!

What's funny is that in Buddhism, Jhana isn't all that special. The Jhanas are to be transcended, to be seen as transitory, unsatisfying, not-self. Even they must be given up (though they are useful in the sense that they focus the mind into one-pointed concentration, and they provide a superior alternative to sense-pleasures for contemplatives).

can you elaborate?

SN Goenka centers have the meditators take a vow of "noble silence" where you're basically not allowed to talk for the span of the 10-day retreat.
>All students must observe Noble Silence from the beginning of the course until the morning of the last full day. Noble Silence means silence of body, speech, and mind. Any form of communication with fellow student, whether by gestures, sign language, written notes, etc., is prohibited.

>Students may, however, speak with the teacher whenever necessary and they may approach the management with any problems related to food, accommodation, health, etc. But even these contacts should be kept to a minimum. Students should cultivate the feeling that they are working in isolation.
As for the cultish vibe, your instructor is a video-recording of SN Goenka talking that they play for everyone on a screen. The actual people there volunteering don't instruct you, they don't act as teachers.
Also, whenever you buy a book from their website on Buddhism, they ask you "Have you taken a 10-day Vipassana retreat at a Goenka center yet?" or something along those lines. It's all very weird imo. Other retreats at actual Buddhist monasteries are not like this at all. They are very interactive and the monks provide direct instruction and help.

that is remarkable. and yet from the way you described it, that experience sounds anything like unsatisfying and transitory. i think if i had one of those experiences i might have felt as though i had reached the pinnacle! this would be foolish, i'm sure. i understand that experiences like this would be greatly superior to ordinary highs and lows. but it's hard to imagine if that was a relatively low-level experience what the upper levels would be like, it sounds like those would be hard to give up. but from the way you described it, i suppose it could be painful or confusing as well.

i've read that people report ecstatic, blissful experiences of this kind that come from meditating and elsewhere, i don't know if i've ever experienced those kinds of highs from meditating before. so thanks for taking the time to put some of it into words, it's very much appreciated.

how do you deal with the social anxiety of approaching teachers etc?

It definitely wasn't painful for me haha, it was pure bliss. But in Buddhism, a core teaching is of the Three Marks of Existence which characterize all experience: impermanence, not-self, and unsatisfactoriness. The recognition of these three characteristics is essentially the core practice of Vipassana or 'insight meditation,' and it can be applied to Jhana as well, if one is skilled in both Jhana and Vipassana and can mix them. The common story in the Suttas of a monk realizing Nirvana, is when they go through each Jhana sequentially, each one more profound than the last, and they carefully analyze them all, seeing them as "not-self, unsatisfactory, impermanent/prepared/conditioned" until they reach the highest Jhana, and when they transcend even the highest Jhana, they realize the cessation of all perception and feeling.

As in monks in monasteries and temples? I guarantee you that they are going to be the least judgmental people you can find on Earth haha. These people are blissed out all the time, with unimaginable compassion for all beings that they've carefully cultivated for years (in many cases for almost their whole life). They're definitely used to people being awkward and anxious with them anyways, and they understand, because they have a profound understanding of suffering. As long as you're honest and open-minded, I promise you it'll go well (unless you go to some new age place to find a teacher instead of an actual Buddhist monastery/temple, or something).

wonderful. thank you for the detailed explanation! i'm only beginning to learn about Buddhism and Buddhist meditation now in earnest, and i don't have a disciplined meditation practice or anything like this. but i have been reading some of the Tibetans recently and i find them very interesting, but mostly it's just the basic concepts of things, and i don't have an extensive understanding of the vocabulary or a lot of the other terminology they use. for advanced learning of this stuff i don't think i'll really understand if i just try to be a dilettante or an amateur.

If I can make a suggestion, it would be to become familiar with the Early Buddhist Texts before anything. Tibetan Buddhism is very high-level, esoteric, and IMO not the place for a beginner. People often recommend it as a "superior path" but I would think that one should learn about what path they're giving up on in the first place before they move onto an alternative, no? I cannot recommend enough, reading the pre-sectarian early texts listed in the chart here to get a strong basis in Buddhism. They are what all of Buddhism is based on and ultimately what it all comes from (and they contain what are most likely the words and teachings of the historical Buddha, evident by their internal consistency, and the fact that they're dated earlier than any other later Buddhists texts, which lack such air-tight internal consistency themselves):

thank you for the suggestions! yes, i agree that the Tibetans are probably a little intense for someone just starting to read in earnest. but this short passage had been blowing my mind for about three days:

>The ultimate reality is beyond intellectual investigation,
>for the intellect is regarded as apparent reality.

when i read that, i thought, okay, *now* i think i'm starting to understand! and for a person who often tends to get carried away by their own thoughts this was really a relief and a discovery, and a joy. i've saved a copy of that reading list also and will begin making my way through it.

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I do have great respect for Mahamudra meditation, but as I understand it, Mahamudra is more applicable to someone who is already greatly skilled in Samatha meditation. Mahamudra is, as far as I understand, quite high-level meditation.
That passage that you quoted there though, is indeed a great one. I like it too.

is this like the retreat that the guy from twitter described, right?

puredhamma.net/

Is this complete bullshit?

I don't know what guy from twitter you're referring to, but it is the retreat this person went on:
pennlive.com/news/2017/06/york_county_suicide_megan_vogt.html

In short, from a quick glance, mostly no, some of it is though. I think the worst part is their UI. Stick to the chart and the suttas imo.